Selling your house

phenom5 · Post by **phenom5** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:55 am

Holy shit...what an awful experience selling a house is.

wyo-cat · Post by **wyo-cat** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:56 am

Then you gotta move - which is worse.

UAGreg · Post by **UAGreg** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:58 am

My boss is currently in the process of selling her house and buying a new one.

Let's just say it's a nightmare for us all.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:11 am

I think this is a good rule to follow:

Don't hire the same realtor you bought your house with.

I say this because, as a buyer, you chose that realtor because s/he made it clear s/he was on your side, building your trust through skepticism and careful examination of properties. Had s/he been selling you on houses to buy so that s/he could get her commission and move on to other customers, you would have drifted to another agent.

But now you need that rosy-goggled seller's agent who needs to one-over every potential buyer who comes looking.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:17 am

Longhorned wrote:I think this is a good rule to follow:

Don't hire the same realtor you bought your house with.

I say this because, as a buyer, you chose that realtor because s/he made it clear s/he was on your side, building your trust through skepticism and careful examination of properties. Had s/he been selling you on houses to buy so that s/he could get her commission and move on to other customers, you would have drifted to another agent.

But now you need that rosy-goggled seller's agent who needs to one-over every potential buyer who comes looking.

I wish what you said was true for us in Durham (and in his defense he did spot from contracting work that was greater than 5000 but not disclosed, causing us to walk away at the last minute), but really it was my wife and I, Zillow/Trulia/Redfin, multiple drives to prospect houses during different times of day, and doing the math for add-ins, negotiation, and price per square foot comparisons ourselves. Our burgers agent was a nice guy, but we broke balls on our house. (8K off the asking price, seller has to fix roof, HVAC, pay to cut down danger-in-high-winds trees, AND has him pay all closing costs-5K; we spent the money to enclose the crawl space, install a dehumidifier).

California meet North Carolina.

Alieberman · Post by **Alieberman** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:21 am

phenom5 wrote:Holy shit...what an awful experience selling a house is.

I keep wanting to sell our old house, but I keep renting it instead.

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:43 am

I'm never selling my house. When I die they can bury me in the back yard next to the gerbils.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:16 am

Alieberman wrote:
phenom5 wrote:Holy shit...what an awful experience selling a house is.
I keep wanting to sell our old house, but I keep renting it instead.

Do you lose money doing that? Make any money?

scumdevils86 · Post by **scumdevils86** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:20 am

i wish i could sell my sh*tty town house that I've been stuck in for 9 years. ugh.

Alieberman · Post by **Alieberman** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:27 am

Longhorned wrote:
Alieberman wrote:
phenom5 wrote:Holy shit...what an awful experience selling a house is.
I keep wanting to sell our old house, but I keep renting it instead.
Do you lose money doing that? Make any money?

I don't lose money. After mortgage, taxes, insurance I make almost $200 / month. But things always go wrong when I'm out of town or on a holiday. (And I'm way to nice to be a landlord)

I make very little money. Just trying to hold on to it for a little while longer until I can sell it for a decent profit. (Or keep it long enough for kids to live in it when they go to the UofA)

pokinmik · Post by **pokinmik** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:34 am

You might be making minimal cash in hand each month, but the renters are basically paying for the house for you! In essence everything they pay you is profit kinda, you're just putting it into the property. I'm sure you obviously realize this haha, just trying to provide a more optimistic view. Having a rental is sweet (except for the repairs and/or bad tenants).

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:39 am

I agree. You maybe only making a few bucks in cash, but you will be doing great in equity.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:47 am

Well, I consider the $200 a month to mean something, too. That would pay for my utilities.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:02 am

When I leave Durham, can I put in the rental agreement that any flying of a Duke game day flag is grounds for immediate eviction?

VegasCatFan · Post by **VegasCatFan** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:16 am

I just started the process of selling our rental out here in Las Vegas that I've had for almost 5 years. Our tenant is moving out and we're just tired of being landlords. We make a couple hundred on it a month at least. Bought it for $110,000 and hoping to get $175,000 for it.

Bruins01 · Post by **Bruins01** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:51 am

Alieberman wrote:I don't lose money. After mortgage, taxes, insurance I make almost $200 / month. But things always go wrong when I'm out of town or on a holiday. (And I'm way to nice to be a landlord)

I make very little money. Just trying to hold on to it for a little while longer until I can sell it for a decent profit. (Or keep it long enough for kids to live in it when they go to the UofA)

Consult a tax adviser when you make the decision to sell. There is a $250,000 ($500,000 if you're married) exemption on the gain of the sale of the house if it is your primary residence and you have lived there for at least two of the past five years. If you are going to be selling the house for more than your basis in it, this could be the difference between paying no taxes on it and paying $50-75,000 in taxes on it.

scumdevils86 · Post by **scumdevils86** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:21 pm

You all have good problems to have. I wish I could sell my house, I still owe $30,000 more than what it is approximately valued at...and I wish I could at least rent it out but neither is feasible. Based on the rental market around me I could only rent my place for about $650/month and in order to just break even I would have to charge a renter about $700-$750.

phenom5 · Post by **phenom5** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:42 pm

I don't know...moving does suck, but trying to sell may suck more.

phenom5 · Post by **phenom5** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:36 pm

scumdevils86 wrote:You all have good problems to have. I wish I could sell my house, I still owe $30,000 more than what it is approximately valued at...and I wish I could at least rent it out but neither is feasible. Based on the rental market around me I could only rent my place for about $650/month and in order to just break even I would have to charge a renter about $700-$750.

We were in the same boat for years SD86. Sucks. Our margins are tight, which is part of what makes it so tough to sell. Bastards are fighting us for a few grand (looks like this deal is going to die over it), which is a 15 bucks a month on their mortgage...but for my wife and I it's straight cash homey.

Alieberman · Post by **Alieberman** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 2:00 pm

Realbruins01 wrote:
Alieberman wrote:I don't lose money. After mortgage, taxes, insurance I make almost $200 / month. But things always go wrong when I'm out of town or on a holiday. (And I'm way to nice to be a landlord)

I make very little money. Just trying to hold on to it for a little while longer until I can sell it for a decent profit. (Or keep it long enough for kids to live in it when they go to the UofA)
Consult a tax adviser when you make the decision to sell. There is a $250,000 ($500,000 if you're married) exemption on the gain of the sale of the house if it is your primary residence and you have lived there for at least two of the past five years. If you are going to be selling the house for more than your basis in it, this could be the difference between paying no taxes on it and paying $50-75,000 in taxes on it.

I haven't lived in the house for 4 years. Been renting it out the last 4 years.

scumdevils86 · Post by **scumdevils86** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 2:54 pm

I really wish I was out there shopping for a house for the first time in 2012-2014 now that I am completely on my own, have a career, make a decent living, and there is a lot better market out there. Instead I thought I was doing a wise thing when I was 19 and making $6.00/hr to use my inheritance money to purchase a place to live in for a couple of years then flip for a massive profit in 2008/09.

ASUCatFan · Post by **ASUCatFan** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:33 pm

I short sold my house last year after my divorce. It was a pain in the ass. Now I'm living in a rental that the owner decided to short sell a month after we signed the lease.

What a PITA.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:00 pm

Amazing how things have changed. In 1997, we sold our Phoenix house in four days. Purchased for 103k (brand new). Sold for 129k four years later.

Had a helluva time selling a condo before that.

Should have current house paid off in three years. Will sell it in about five years. Then will never buy again. Looking forward to downsizing.

wyo-cat · Post by **wyo-cat** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:09 pm

CalStateTempe wrote:When I leave Durham, can I put in the rental agreement that any flying of a Duke game day flag is grounds for immediate eviction?

With the Stand Your Ground laws, you could probably pop a cap in their ass.

wyo-cat · Post by **wyo-cat** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:17 pm

Alieberman wrote:
Realbruins01 wrote:
Alieberman wrote:I don't lose money. After mortgage, taxes, insurance I make almost $200 / month. But things always go wrong when I'm out of town or on a holiday. (And I'm way to nice to be a landlord)

I make very little money. Just trying to hold on to it for a little while longer until I can sell it for a decent profit. (Or keep it long enough for kids to live in it when they go to the UofA)
Consult a tax adviser when you make the decision to sell. There is a $250,000 ($500,000 if you're married) exemption on the gain of the sale of the house if it is your primary residence and you have lived there for at least two of the past five years. If you are going to be selling the house for more than your basis in it, this could be the difference between paying no taxes on it and paying $50-75,000 in taxes on it.
I haven't lived in the house for 4 years. Been renting it out the last 4 years.

Maybe you should make it a full time rental. That being said, you can depreciate the value over 20 or 25 years. That could reduce your overall tax burden by what you are already making per month - basically doubling your income and help offset vacancy periods between tenants. You would definitely need to consult a tax professional on this because I think it's changed some.

Daryl Zero · Post by **Daryl Zero** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:24 pm

wyo-cat wrote:Maybe you should make it a full time rental. That being said, you can depreciate the value over 20 or 25 years. That could reduce your overall tax burden by what you are already making per month - basically doubling your income and help offset vacancy periods between tenants. You would definitely need to consult a tax professional on this because I think it's changed some.

By depreciating the house, you reduce your basis in the house if that matters. The results could be a large capital gain if you sold it though if you passed it on to the next generation (and had the decency to die), they would get a step up in basis.

wyo-cat · Post by **wyo-cat** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:31 pm

Right, I was thinking if it was a permanent rental and they weren't selling it. AZ is a state where you can do a Beneficiary Deed and the property would pass to the next generation on a cost step up basis and outside of probate - which is nice.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:10 am

Talking about making money, on some months I'm making closing to $150 per billing statement for my cash back awards on Discover Card. Why is that company allowing people like me to use them like this?

Alieberman · Post by **Alieberman** » Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:31 am

What I'm mostly wanting to do with my rental is to keep making money on it without renters there to screw everything up and bothering me.

catgrad97 · Post by **catgrad97** » Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:22 pm

What if I want to sell the house to the people who are renting it right now without having to pay for a costly refinance? Isn't there a title transfer I can do? Neither of us have spectacular credit.

Daryl Zero · Post by **Daryl Zero** » Sat Jun 07, 2014 4:40 pm

catgrad97 wrote:What if I want to sell the house to the people who are renting it right now without having to pay for a costly refinance? Isn't there a title transfer I can do? Neither of us have spectacular credit.

Not sure what you mean. If the renters are buying the house, they either get financing and pay off your mortgage or you are carrying the note and take the risk that they walk away or don't pay. If you are talking about the renters just taking over the mortgage, not sure that works without risk to you.

catgrad97 · Post by **catgrad97** » Sat Jun 07, 2014 6:12 pm

Renters are not sure, with their credit, they can get financing. They're 10-year friends and co-workers of my wife with three kids. What are my options if they can't?

Daryl Zero · Post by **Daryl Zero** » Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:20 pm

catgrad97 wrote:Renters are not sure, with their credit, they can get financing. They're 10-year friends and co-workers of my wife with three kids. What are my options if they can't?

Not sure I know enough to really help. I recall that a loan service can wrap another loan. An example, lets say that you sell to the renters for the amount of the outstanding loan or a bit more, you do a sale's deal with them and keep a mortgage (trustee's deed) on the house so you are holding the note and you have a title company service the loan to pay the other mortgage once the payments come in. If the renters pay the mortgage and it is enough to pay your mortgage and maybe plus, you're fine although a lot of loans allow the lender to accelerate the debt if you transfer title. I haven't yet seen any mortgage company do that. They're happy if their loan keeps getting paid and they don't care how its done. The risk you take is that your buyers trash the house and walk away from it leaving you with the unpaid mortgage, fees to do a trustee's sale to get the house back in your name, possibly a house that is underwater, and the loss of friends. You can probably find a mortgage broker who can lay this out for you or try to get Taylor and/or LK interested in answering this better than I can.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:33 pm

catgrad97 wrote:Renters are not sure, with their credit, they can get financing. They're 10-year friends and co-workers of my wife with three kids. What are my options if they can't?

I'm obviously not a lawyer, but this makes me nervous. I'm concerned that it goes beyond questions of trust or personal history. If you're bearing the risk, it can't be good for anyone involved.

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:46 pm

sd86 and i were screwed when we and our parents bought our house in 2005. bought it for $100k. guy that sold it to us bought it in 2000 for $50k. and like sd86 said we are way under water in it still. that guy that sold it to us ran off into the night with a huge pile of cash.

and as an aside...never get a home loan from or refinance one with wells fargo. complete amateur hour. our refinance took us 9 months to do and we were repeatedly mislead and lied to throughout the process by wells fargo..

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:49 am

Wells Fargo is my lender. No problems. They probably just hate you.

Daryl Zero · Post by **Daryl Zero** » Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:39 am

ASUHATER! wrote:and as an aside...never get a home loan from or refinance one with wells fargo. complete amateur hour. our refinance took us 9 months to do and we were repeatedly mislead and lied to throughout the process by wells fargo..

Probably wildly differ by branch/personnel.

wyo-cat · Post by **wyo-cat** » Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:43 am

catgrad97 wrote:Renters are not sure, with their credit, they can get financing. They're 10-year friends and co-workers of my wife with three kids. What are my options if they can't?

Sell them the house on contract - they pay you monthly for the term of your mortgage. When its done you, as written in the contract, deed them the house. Of course its more complex than this, but I just wanted to give you the basic concept.

scumdevils86 · Post by **scumdevils86** » Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:53 pm

Daryl Zero wrote:
ASUHATER! wrote:and as an aside...never get a home loan from or refinance one with wells fargo. complete amateur hour. our refinance took us 9 months to do and we were repeatedly mislead and lied to throughout the process by wells fargo..
Probably wildly differ by branch/personnel.

I had the regional manager/vp or what not for all wells fargo mortgage operations in the state of arizona scream at me on the phone and call me a "fucking liar". I had spent 3 weeks leaving approximately 15-20 voicemails on about 20 different phone lines (no one at wells fargo answers the phone) and sent about a dozen emails with absolutely no response or acknowledgement from the company. This was about 6 months into the refinance mind you and after I had already submitted all the docs for a "streamlined fha refinance" at least 3 times and they kept losing them or shuffling them around.

Needless to say I was unhappy with this manager when I finally got him on the phone (I was definitely angry but I did not cuss or yell at him at all). I told him about my 3 weeks of attempted contact with his company and that's when he went ballistic and proceeded to tell me I was a fucking liar and that I was making things up and that Wells Fargo didn't need customers like me who were so "needy". Then he told me to fuck off again. I wish I was making that up btw.

phenom5 · Post by **phenom5** » Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:05 pm

Someone at BofA suggested we talk to their LO about a mortgage. Since we have had our account for so long (same account that I opened when I was 18) they could give us some special discounts that would make them competitive.

We went in to talk to the guy because the idea of having our mortgage at our bank was a nice idea.

1. They were expensive as shit. Way more $$$ in fees and way more money in interest rate than a broker.
2. The dumbshit used the wrong last name...even introduced us to the branch manager (whom I know) as Mr & Mrs Wagner, whoever the hell the Wagners are.

Needless to say, we did not go to BofA, and went to a broker instead.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:07 pm

phenom5 wrote:Someone at BofA suggested we talk to their LO about a mortgage. Since we have had our account for so long (same account that I opened when I was 18) they could give us some special discounts that would make them competitive.

We went in to talk to the guy because the idea of having our mortgage at our bank was a nice idea.

1. They were expensive as shit. Way more $$$ in fees and way more money in interest rate than a broker.
2. The dumbshit used the wrong last name...even introduced us to the branch manager (whom I know) as Mr & Mrs Wagner, whoever the hell the Wagners are.

Needless to say, we did not go to BofA, and went to a broker instead.

Boy, what I wouldn't give to see the look on Mr. and Mrs. Wagner's faces.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:42 pm

scumdevils86 wrote:
Daryl Zero wrote:
ASUHATER! wrote:and as an aside...never get a home loan from or refinance one with wells fargo. complete amateur hour. our refinance took us 9 months to do and we were repeatedly mislead and lied to throughout the process by wells fargo..
Probably wildly differ by branch/personnel.
I had the regional manager/vp or what not for all wells fargo mortgage operations in the state of arizona scream at me on the phone and call me a "fucking liar". I had spent 3 weeks leaving approximately 15-20 voicemails on about 20 different phone lines (no one at wells fargo answers the phone) and sent about a dozen emails with absolutely no response or acknowledgement from the company. This was about 6 months into the refinance mind you and after I had already submitted all the docs for a "streamlined fha refinance" at least 3 times and they kept losing them or shuffling them around.

Needless to say I was unhappy with this manager when I finally got him on the phone (I was definitely angry but I did not cuss or yell at him at all). I told him about my 3 weeks of attempted contact with his company and that's when he went ballistic and proceeded to tell me I was a fucking liar and that I was making things up and that Wells Fargo didn't need customers like me who were so "needy". Then he told me to fuck off again. I wish I was making that up btw.

You know, if they had just one voice mail account and one email account, this wouldn't have happened. Like the single thread/single subject thing.

scumdevils86 · Post by **scumdevils86** » Mon Jun 09, 2014 5:16 pm

phenom5 · Post by **phenom5** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:49 am

Waiting for the contract to be sent over, house may finally be sold...assuming we make it through inspection/ appraisal/ these buyers don't flake.

Longhorned wrote:
phenom5 wrote:Someone at BofA suggested we talk to their LO about a mortgage. Since we have had our account for so long (same account that I opened when I was 18) they could give us some special discounts that would make them competitive.

We went in to talk to the guy because the idea of having our mortgage at our bank was a nice idea.

1. They were expensive as shit. Way more $$$ in fees and way more money in interest rate than a broker.
2. The dumbshit used the wrong last name...even introduced us to the branch manager (whom I know) as Mr & Mrs Wagner, whoever the hell the Wagners are.

Needless to say, we did not go to BofA, and went to a broker instead.
Boy, what I wouldn't give to see the look on Mr. and Mrs. Wagner's faces.

It was funnier to see the smile on our friends face just drop as the LO introduced us as the wrong people.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 7:02 am

Good luck! I guess these days the appraisers do exactly what it takes to ensure the sale goes through. Inspection will at most result in one final, relatively insignificant negotiation where the buyers will be on pins and needles. And the buyers just have to not be dumb enough to buy a new car or a boat before closing.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 7:10 am

Longhorned wrote:Good luck! I guess these days the appraisers do exactly what it takes to ensure the sale goes through. Inspection will at most result in one final, relatively insignificant negotiation where the buyers will be on pins and needles. And the buyers just have to not be dumb enough to buy a new car or a boat before closing.

The inspectors are in the pockets of the realtors now. Our inspector told us our house was in better shape than most brand new homes he inspects and gave it a glowing review. Meanwhile it was falling down (literally).

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 7:19 am

Chicat wrote:
Longhorned wrote:Good luck! I guess these days the appraisers do exactly what it takes to ensure the sale goes through. Inspection will at most result in one final, relatively insignificant negotiation where the buyers will be on pins and needles. And the buyers just have to not be dumb enough to buy a new car or a boat before closing.
The inspectors are in the pockets of the realtors now. Our inspector told us our house was in better shape than most brand new homes he inspects and gave it a glowing review. Meanwhile it was falling down (literally).

That's why I think it's important to figure out who's a buyer's realtor and who's a seller's realtor. The inspectors are all the same, but they know who butters their bread in whichever case.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 7:30 am

By the way, can anyone here tell my why it's good that I got into his home owner thing instead of continuing to rent? I've lived in my house for 13 months, and so far I've had to sink $9,000 into maintenance and upkeep, and I've got quite a ways to go before I'm finished with my "getting started" list. You people kept telling me that I was "burning my money" as a renter. As far as I can tell, I'm burning a lot more money now. Not to mention the fact that all that down payment money isn't doing any real work for me. I'm thinking that home ownership is really just about hemorrhaging money rather than investing it because you love the house and not having a landlord to dick you around.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 7:40 am

Longhorned wrote:By the way, can anyone here tell my why it's good that I got into his home owner thing instead of continuing to rent? I've lived in my house for 13 months, and so far I've had to sink $9,000 into maintenance and upkeep, and I've got quite a ways to go before I'm finished with my "getting started" list. You people kept telling me that I was "burning my money" as a renter. As far as I can tell, I'm burning a lot more money now. Not to mention the fact that all that down payment money isn't doing any real work for me. I'm thinking that home ownership is really just about hemorrhaging money rather than investing it because you love the house and not having a landlord to dick you around.

The short answer is that in forty years, when you're just about ready to kick the bucket, your house might have enough equity in it for you to buy that set of encyclopedias you've been coveting.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:01 am

Chicat wrote:
Longhorned wrote:By the way, can anyone here tell my why it's good that I got into his home owner thing instead of continuing to rent? I've lived in my house for 13 months, and so far I've had to sink $9,000 into maintenance and upkeep, and I've got quite a ways to go before I'm finished with my "getting started" list. You people kept telling me that I was "burning my money" as a renter. As far as I can tell, I'm burning a lot more money now. Not to mention the fact that all that down payment money isn't doing any real work for me. I'm thinking that home ownership is really just about hemorrhaging money rather than investing it because you love the house and not having a landlord to dick you around.
The short answer is that in forty years, when you're just about ready to kick the bucket, your house might have enough equity in it for you to buy that set of encyclopedias you've been coveting.

Like a responsible adult, I took your post to heart and went into long-term planning mode. So I googled "Encyclopedia of Pornography". I got no results, which makes me realize that this world is not what I thought it was. But I did get the "Pornography" entry in the online Encyclopedia of the Church of Latter Day Saints:

http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Pornography

I bet their entry on "Barbecued Ribs" would be:

Barbecued Ribs are a food that questionable individuals eat, often without praying beforehand. They take the place of more suitable foods enjoyed in a proper family environment, and in good Mormon fellowship. Unsuspecting individuals exposed early to barbecued ribs may develop a desire to revisit the base enjoyment of smoked, meaty, and tangy foods, rather than focusing on God. Get down on your knees and pray for those misguided individuals who enjoy ribs, asking for their forgiveness, and then look at your children. All of your children. No, you're missing four of them. Over by the stairwell. Good, now look at all of your children and smile, holding the hand of your smiling, big-haired wife, but not in a sensual way.

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