Bear Down Wildcats

Posted: **Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:07 am**

California really needs to figure out desalination so they can stop stealing Arizona, Utah, Nevada and Colorado's water.

Posted: **Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:46 am**

ASUHATER! wrote:California really needs to figure out desalination so they can stop stealing Arizona, Utah, Nevada and Colorado's water.

It's a difficult economic proposition for private industry -- desalination will always be more expensive than diverted water from the river through existing infrastructure. So there's only money to be made once the existing sources run dry, which can't be predicted in advance with certainty and once it occurs will be too late.

Classic case that necessitates government intervention in the market and it would also address the earthquake concerns that plague the existing water infrastructure in this state. Unfortunately there is zero chance of that happening from within California state government and the feds aren't going to do a damned thing for California.

Of course, just getting the parasitic farmers to stop wasting water growing almonds would be a huge step forward too.

Posted: **Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:52 am**

legallykenny wrote:
ASUHATER! wrote:California really needs to figure out desalination so they can stop stealing Arizona, Utah, Nevada and Colorado's water.
It's a difficult economic proposition for private industry -- desalination will always be more expensive than diverted water from the river through existing infrastructure. So there's only money to be made once the existing sources run dry, which can't be predicted in advance with certainty and once it occurs will be too late.

Classic case that necessitates government intervention in the market and it would also address the earthquake concerns that plague the existing water infrastructure in this state. Unfortunately there is zero chance of that happening from within California state government and the feds aren't going to do a damned thing for California.

Of course, just getting the parasitic farmers to stop wasting water growing almonds would be a huge step forward too.

Good point on almonds those things waste water like nobody's business.. and are gross

Posted: **Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:55 am**

One of my brothers in law had a house in Casa Grande that backed up to the cotton fields there. Hated it, due to the all the dust, and the bugs crawling into his yard when they sprayed the fields.

Arizona needs to ask itself, do you really want to grow water intensive crops in a desert?

Old timers will remember a lot of citrus farms around Tucson (e.g. Tangerine Rd). The city eventually bought up all the water rights from farmers and orchards around town.

Posted: **Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:56 am**

https://ensia.com/features/in-an-arid-u ... ck-factor/

IN AN ARID U.S. WEST, WATER AGENCIES LOOK TO DELIVER PURIFIED WASTEWATER DIRECTLY TO CUSTOMERS’ FAUCETS, DESPITE “YUCK FACTOR”

August 3, 2021 — Editor’s note: This story is part of a four-part series — “Hotter, Drier, Smarter: Managing Western Water in a Changing Climate” — about innovative approaches to water management in the U.S. West and Western tribal nations. The series is supported by The Water Desk , an independent journalism initiative based at the University of Colorado Boulder’s Center for Environmental Journalism. You can read the other stories in the series, along with more drinking water reporting, here.

For decades, water officials in San Diego, realizing the city was facing an ever-drier future, have worked to make the idea of what’s known as “direct potable reuse,” or DPR, more palatable to residents. In the 1990s, that turned into an uphill battle. The technology delivers purified wastewater to customers’ faucets without an environmental buffer — such as a groundwater aquifer, river or other go-between — prior to distribution, so opponents labeled it “toilet-to-tap.” The epithet stuck and torpedoed the Southern California city’s water recycling plans.

But of course the water issues stuck around as well, leaving the city to continue looking for new sources of water, especially those that might be drought proof.

And San Diego is just one city among many in the country’s most arid regions facing the ongoing threat of long-term drought. Western water agencies continue working to not only conserve water, but to also reuse as much wastewater as possible, including from the stable supply DPR promises. As San Diego discovered decades ago, making DPR a reality entails — along with regulatory and permitting changes — trying to overcome the “yuck factor.” Today, despite its “toilet-to-tap” hurdle, San Diego is now intent on becoming the first city in California to convey treated effluent directly from factory to faucet.

“We’re ahead right now, and it looks like we’ll be the first ones out of the gate,” says John Stufflebean, assistant director of the San Diego Public Utilities Department and executive lead for Pure Water San Diego, the name of the city’s latest water reuse project.

Posted: **Tue Oct 05, 2021 12:03 pm**

So when I'm staying in a hotel in San Diego, I'm showering in clean piss and diarrhea, right?

Posted: **Tue Oct 05, 2021 12:29 pm**

Longhorned wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 12:03 pm So when I'm staying in a hotel in San Diego, I'm showering in clean piss and diarrhea, right?

Posted: **Tue Oct 05, 2021 12:32 pm**

Longhorned wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 12:03 pm So when I'm staying in a hotel in San Diego, I'm showering in clean piss and diarrhea, right?

In the future, yes.

People in La Jolla, Point Loma, and elsewhere in San Diego couldn't care less how high water rates are raised to discourage unwise consumption. They are going to water their lawns and ornamental gardens no matter how high rates get. Doesn't matter at all to them.

Yet, that I know of, no new houses are required to have a simple and cheap modification of channeling roof rain water to barrels to be judiciously dripped in gardens or elsewhere.

Posted: **Tue Oct 05, 2021 12:41 pm**

The fact that rainwater harvesting isn't universal is ridiculous

Posted: **Tue Oct 05, 2021 12:44 pm**

ASUHATER! wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 12:41 pm The fact that rainwater harvesting isn't universal is ridiculous

Most states don't have any regulation in regards to water harvesting but some do.

https://worldwaterreserve.com/rainwater ... rainwater/

Posted: **Tue Oct 05, 2021 12:54 pm**

The next MAGA-Again message: There's no drought or water shortage! Make American cities The NASCAR Racetracks of water waste!

Posted: **Tue Oct 05, 2021 1:06 pm**

It's God's punishment, but only in the blue counties.

Posted: **Tue Oct 05, 2021 1:12 pm**

dovecanyoncat wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 12:54 pm The next MAGA-Again message: There's no drought or water shortage! Make American cities The NASCAR Racetracks of water waste!

"The Democrats want you to shower in urine and diarrhea."

BOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

"They say it's clean urine and diarrhea."

BOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

"Come on. We'll give them a chance, right? Maybe they're right. Maybe they'll clean the urine and diarrhea before we all drink it, right?"

BOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

"Maybe a man in a dress will enter the girls' locker room and drink the urine and diarrhea right out of them, right?"

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!

"Maybe it's a good way to kill more infants. Maybe! I don't know. Who knows? I don't know. I don't know."

Posted: **Tue Oct 05, 2021 1:20 pm**

The above demonstrates how correct I am in saying that between LH and AZGreg the position of Whitehouse press secretary would be well in hand if only Those Lame Liberals would let our two ambassadors of wit drive the fucking bus. Addendum: they would require Chicat as paid consultant to flesh out the retail interface.

But no one listens to me.

Posted: **Tue Oct 05, 2021 7:59 pm**

ASUHATER! wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 12:41 pm The fact that rainwater harvesting isn't universal is ridiculous

We harvest rain water and put it in these things we call lakes. We move it around to bigger lakes in theses things we call rivers.

But seriously, in wilderness survival class we used a big sheet of visqueen with a rock on it and a cup below the stone, then we peed under the sheet, it evaporated, condensed on the plastic, ran down to the stone and dropped into the cup and we drank it.
Solar still, easy peesie.

Posted: **Wed Oct 06, 2021 2:06 am**

CatsbyAZ wrote: ↑Sun May 24, 2015 2:18 pm
UAdevil wrote:What assholes.

http://kron4.com/2015/05/22/vandals-des ... -into-bay/

Vandals destroy dam, release 49 million gallons of water into Bay
Probably Berkeley grad students carrying out a class assignment.

The Monkey Wrench Gang.

Posted: **Wed Oct 06, 2021 2:21 am**

azgreg wrote: ↑Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:40 am When is the Carlsbad desal plant due to come online?

Huh. CARLSBAD? I would have thought San Onofre would have been a better location.

Posted: **Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:42 am**

I'm on a MAGA dominated FB page for residents of an area in AZ where we have a vacation house. Most of the fools on there are from southern California.

When the issue of the severe shortage on the river came up, most think its just a giant liberal conspiracy. We're screwed and may very well go the way of the Anasazi if we don't adopt measures to keep our population growth in check.

Posted: **Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:55 am**

azgreg wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 12:29 pm
Longhorned wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 12:03 pm So when I'm staying in a hotel in San Diego, I'm showering in clean piss and diarrhea, right?

When I saw this movie in the theater, I was thinking "why doesn't he just filter seawater?". Urine contains urea which your kidneys need to work harder to filter.

RichardCranium wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 2:21 am
azgreg wrote: ↑Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:40 am When is the Carlsbad desal plant due to come online?
Huh. CARLSBAD? I would have thought San Onofre would have been a better location.

They could convert that old nuclear power plant to use tidal or wind energy to power the desal plant.

My youngest son in the San Diego area (PB) says that utilities are extremely high down there, even compared to PG&E who provides my electricity.

Posted: **Sat Nov 13, 2021 11:46 pm**

Posted: **Sun Nov 14, 2021 6:08 am**

And unfortunately it's going to be in La niña winter where most of central and southern California gets not much rain

Posted: **Fri May 13, 2022 1:00 pm**

Posted: **Fri May 13, 2022 1:02 pm**

$98 billion surplus. Lets start making some water!!

Posted: **Fri May 13, 2022 1:26 pm**

azgreg wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 1:00 pm

Posted: **Fri May 13, 2022 1:29 pm**

Looks like a lot of rich boomer NIMBYs celebrating killing the plant that would provide water to people decades after they're gone.

Posted: **Fri May 13, 2022 1:33 pm**

ASUHATER! wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 1:29 pm Looks like a lot of rich boomer NIMBYs celebrating killing the plant that would provide water to people decades after they're gone.

Huntington is full of awful people so on that end it is not surprising. But it was also being fought by extreme environmentalist who believed the salt discharge would destroy Marine life.

Sustainability is really complicated because a lot of the things we need to do to become more sustainable and green in the long term means using items that are harmful to the planet in the short term.

Posted: **Sat May 14, 2022 8:42 am**

I still support that more sustainable plan to drink sewer water with the shit and piss removed.

Posted: **Sat May 14, 2022 11:57 pm**

Longhorned wrote: ↑Sat May 14, 2022 8:42 am I still support that more sustainable plan to drink sewer water with the shit and piss removed.

We're pretty much already doing that. Everytime a toilet flushes in Vegas, it goes into the drinking water supply downstream.

Posted: **Sun May 15, 2022 8:48 am**

Las Vegas does what Tucson does in the Santa Cruz.

They release treated wastewater into a wetland which flows into the aquifer and Lake Mead. Their drinking water is supplied by Lake Mead, so not exactly toilet to tap, but it’s a cycle.

Posted: **Sun May 15, 2022 9:11 am**

wyo-cat wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 8:48 am Las Vegas does what Tucson does in the Santa Cruz.

They release treated wastewater into a wetland which flows into the aquifer and Lake Mead. Their drinking water is supplied by Lake Mead, so not exactly toilet to tap, but it’s a cycle.

Every time a toilet flushes in Vegas, Laughlin, Bullhead, Needles, and Lake Havasu, it ends up in the water supply of Tucson, L.A. San Diego, Yuma. and Mexicali.

Posted: **Sun May 15, 2022 9:47 am**

My dad was telling me about this place in AZ that has to have water trucked in. Might be Rio Verde near Scottsdale.

https://www.abc15.com/weather/impact-ea ... e-of-water

Posted: **Tue Jun 14, 2022 7:01 pm**

Posted: **Tue Jun 14, 2022 7:23 pm**

The vessel narrows at the bottom.

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:45 pm**

Posted: **Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:43 am**

I don't want to say there's nothing wrong, because clearly there is.

However, this thread was started in 2015. Has California actually run out of water yet?

Mayhaps the thread title could be changed to something that doesn't age so badly?

Posted: **Sun Aug 28, 2022 3:48 pm**

Posted: **Mon Aug 29, 2022 8:29 am**

azgreg wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 3:48 pm

Good. I'm just as concerned about my absolutely insane electricity bill.

Posted: **Mon Aug 29, 2022 9:05 am**

GlobalCat wrote: ↑Mon Aug 29, 2022 8:29 am Good. I'm just as concerned about my absolutely insane electricity bill.

What region do you live in? I live in the PG&E region but in a cool coastal area so cooling is not a concern. No central air where I live. But even then my electric bill is $125 a month or so. Newsom is trying to keep Diablo Canyon open longer to help mitigate costs.

My youngest son lives in Pacific Beach, and has an extremely small studio with no cooling, and says he pays about the same as I do with SDGE for his studio as I pay for PG&E for my house. No doubt somewhat related to San Onofre being shut down.

Posted: **Wed Aug 31, 2022 7:27 am**

Merkin wrote: ↑Mon Aug 29, 2022 9:05 am
GlobalCat wrote: ↑Mon Aug 29, 2022 8:29 am Good. I'm just as concerned about my absolutely insane electricity bill.
What region do you live in? I live in the PG&E region but in a cool coastal area so cooling is not a concern. No central air where I live. But even then my electric bill is $125 a month or so. Newsom is trying to keep Diablo Canyon open longer to help mitigate costs.

My youngest son lives in Pacific Beach, and has an extremely small studio with no cooling, and says he pays about the same as I do with SDGE for his studio as I pay for PG&E for my house. No doubt somewhat related to San Onofre being shut down.

Maybe, but more likely related to SDGE making as much profit as possible. Sempra, the owner of SDGE is not known for ethics.

Posted: **Tue Oct 04, 2022 12:10 pm**

Posted: **Fri Oct 14, 2022 2:55 pm**

Posted: **Sun Nov 13, 2022 4:01 pm**

Stopped by Lake Mead today on the way home from Vegas and my god. I'm struggling to see a way out of this.

Posted: **Tue Jan 31, 2023 10:14 am**

Department of Interior announcing that without a stated plan by Jan 31 from seven Southwest states to reduce water usage from the Colorado River, the Feds will propose their own cuts for each state.

From the Guardian:

"Six western states that rely on water from the Colorado River have agreed on a model to dramatically cut water use in the basin, months after the federal government called for action and an initial deadline passed. California – with the largest allocation of water from the river – is the lone holdout. Officials said the state would release its own plan."

"States missed a mid-August deadline to heed the US Bureau of Reclamation’s call to propose ways to conserve 2m to 4m acre-feet of water. They regrouped to reach consensus by the end of January to fold into a larger proposal Reclamation has in the works. Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico, Colorado, Utah and Wyoming sent a letter on Monday to Reclamation, which operates the major dams in the river system, to outline an alternative that builds on existing guidelines, deepens water cuts and factors in water that is lost through evaporation and transportation."

Posted: **Tue Jan 31, 2023 11:00 am**

Meanwhile, in Arizona, the battle for water between Scottsdale and Rio Verde Foothills has expanded somewhat to include Carefree.

CAREFREE, Ariz. — "The Rio Verde Foothills water battle with the city of Scottsdale is now spilling into neighboring communities.

ABC15 visited the town of Carefree, where leaders have told certain water haulers they aren’t allowed to fill up anymore this year.

Carefree Water Company says three separate haulers have already exceeded their allotment — using as much water in January as they did in all of 2022.

As a result, they’ve been cut off."

https://www.abc15.com/news/region-north ... ommunities

Posted: **Tue Jan 31, 2023 12:02 pm**

This is the biggest reason I moved out of Arizona. I knew water was going to become a big issue. I am afraid this legislation is just the start.

Posted: **Tue Jan 31, 2023 2:00 pm**

California probably deserves an even bigger share. Do you want the water to go to green yards and swimming pools in Phoenix and Las Vegas, or to agriculture in California?

Good article here on the water rights issue, and why California has the senior claim.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/27/clim ... ticleShare

Farms versus subdivisions

That leaves California and Arizona, which have rights to 4.4 million and 2.8 million acre-feet from the Colorado — typically the largest and third-largest allotments among the seven states. Negotiators from both sides seem convinced of one thing: The other state ought to come up with more cuts.

In California, the largest user of Colorado River water is the Imperial Irrigation District, which has rights to 3.1 million acre-feet — as much as Arizona and Nevada put together. That water lets farmers grow alfalfa, lettuce and broccoli on about 800 square miles of the Imperial Valley, in the southeast corner of California.

California has senior water rights to Arizona, which means that Arizona’s supply should be cut before California is forced to take reductions, according to JB Hamby, vice president of the Imperial Irrigation District and chairman of the Colorado River Board of California, which is negotiating for the state.

“We have sound legal footing,” Mr. Hamby said in an interview. He said that fast-growing Arizona should have been ready for the Colorado River drying up. “That’s kind of a responsibility on their part to plan for these risk factors.”

Arizona does have other sources some other states do not, like NV.

Posted: **Tue Jan 31, 2023 2:11 pm**

72% of AZ water goes to agriculture. Many of those guys that work up in the central valley in the summer head to Yuma in the winter. Only 22% of Arizona's water goes to municipal use. 6% to industry

Posted: **Tue Jan 31, 2023 2:27 pm**

But does a desert need to be producing crops that require a huge amount of water? And yes, that goes for the Imperial Valley too.

https://www.azfamily.com/2022/10/02/mos ... n-arizona/

Lemons
Annual production: $22.6 million
Top states:
#1. California ($638.2 million)
#2. Arizona ($22.6 million)

Cabbage
Annual production: $56.1 million
Top states:
#1. California ($155.2 million)
#2. New York ($76.3 million)
#3. Arizona ($56.1 million)
#4. Florida ($45.3 million)
#5. Texas ($44.2 million)

Cauliflower
Annual production: $76.9 million
Top states:
#1. California ($265.9 million)
#2. Arizona ($76.9 million)

Broccoli
- Annual production: $87.5 million
Top states:
#1. California ($631.5 million)
#2. Arizona ($87.5 million)

Melons
Annual production: $91.9 million
Top states:
#1. Florida ($192.4 million)
#2. California ($162.9 million)
#3. Georgia ($103.7 million)
#4. Arizona ($91.9 million)
#5. Texas ($54.3 million)

Pecans
Annual production: $92.8 million
Top states:
#1. New Mexico ($188.9 million)
#2. Georgia ($182.5 million)
#3. Arizona ($92.8 million)
#4. Texas ($69.2 million)
#5. Oklahoma ($17.5 million)

Dates
Annual production: $93.0 million
Top states:
#1. California ($135.6 million)
#2. Arizona ($93.0 million)

Spinach
Annual production: $113.6 million
Top states:
#1. California ($358.8 million)
#2. Arizona ($113.6 million)
#3. New Jersey ($14.2 million)
#4. Texas ($9.6 million)

Lettuce
Annual production: $291.0 million
Top states:
#1. California ($768.5 million)
#2. Arizona ($291.0 million)

Posted: **Tue Jan 31, 2023 3:55 pm**

Merkin wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 2:27 pm But does a desert need to be producing crops that require a huge amount of water? And yes, that goes for the Imperial Valley too.

https://www.azfamily.com/2022/10/02/mos ... n-arizona/

Lemons
Annual production: $22.6 million
Top states:
#1. California ($638.2 million)
#2. Arizona ($22.6 million)

Cabbage
Annual production: $56.1 million
Top states:
#1. California ($155.2 million)
#2. New York ($76.3 million)
#3. Arizona ($56.1 million)
#4. Florida ($45.3 million)
#5. Texas ($44.2 million)

Cauliflower
Annual production: $76.9 million
Top states:
#1. California ($265.9 million)
#2. Arizona ($76.9 million)

Broccoli
- Annual production: $87.5 million
Top states:
#1. California ($631.5 million)
#2. Arizona ($87.5 million)

Melons
Annual production: $91.9 million
Top states:
#1. Florida ($192.4 million)
#2. California ($162.9 million)
#3. Georgia ($103.7 million)
#4. Arizona ($91.9 million)
#5. Texas ($54.3 million)

Pecans
Annual production: $92.8 million
Top states:
#1. New Mexico ($188.9 million)
#2. Georgia ($182.5 million)
#3. Arizona ($92.8 million)
#4. Texas ($69.2 million)
#5. Oklahoma ($17.5 million)

Dates
Annual production: $93.0 million
Top states:
#1. California ($135.6 million)
#2. Arizona ($93.0 million)

Spinach
Annual production: $113.6 million
Top states:
#1. California ($358.8 million)
#2. Arizona ($113.6 million)
#3. New Jersey ($14.2 million)
#4. Texas ($9.6 million)

Lettuce
Annual production: $291.0 million
Top states:
#1. California ($768.5 million)
#2. Arizona ($291.0 million)

Good that your pic showed a cotton field.

Cotton has a very high water budget. What's insane about this is that, more often than not, the cotton market is federally subsidized, meaning there is usually a world wide glut of cotton on the market. Farmers like to grow it as a means to get high returns on the taxpayers back. This is one reason farmers like Republicans because Republican administrations tend to support the cotton welfare program. Doubly insane since cotton uses so much water.

Last summer I could show you cotton fields on Colorado River irrigated sandy mesa soil which, for any crop, requires more water than other soils. It should be illegal to grow cotton, and gain taxpayer provided subsidies, when the grower made the choice to plant on these soils. Just an absurd scenario. Your tax money pays for this absurd waste.

On the other hand, the desert agricultural areas are the most productive farm fields in the world. Does it make good strategic sense to cut off our nation's food factories? To replace them in areas within our nation which are more moist and closer to the water source would mean converting many more acres of habitat into farms.

Bear Down Wildcats

California Has One Year of Water Left

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