Yep which is why I think that if humans ever have any contact with anything extra terrestrial...it's almost assuredly going to be in machine/probe/AI form. I mean, that's all we have been able to ever send any distance away and unless we find a way to create and travel through wormholes, all we'll ever be able to send outside our own star system is probes/machines/AI
Re: UFO's
Posted: Sun May 09, 2021 9:57 am
by Longhorned
Yeah, so that's stuff about the extraterrestrial hypothesis. Basically, even under that line of thinking, it's hard to arrive at the possibility that we're being visited by alien life forms.
Then, there's all the super interesting sociological and psychological factors about open-minded skeptics on one hand, and the debunkers on the other side. You don't have to scratch too hard beneath the surface of both to find odd beliefs at work.
And correct me if I'm wrong, but other than rumors of the existence of high resolution video evidence, the only credible thing left standing in the end is eye witnesses who are specifically people flying on aircraft, either as pilots or passengers. Am I missing something, or is there yet to be a serious study about these kinds of visuals vis-a-vis the physiology of flying? I don't mean mistaking Venus for a spaceship. I mean the appearance of white and bright objects shaped like cigars, Tic-Tacs, etc. Before we decide that incidents like O'Hare 2007 buttress the pattern of pilot and passenger eye-witness accounts, shouldn't there be a study of visual perception in high-speed aircraft?
Re: UFO's
Posted: Sun May 09, 2021 10:03 am
by UAEebs86
Longhorned wrote: ↑Sun May 09, 2021 9:57 am
Yeah, so that's stuff about the extraterrestrial hypothesis. Basically, even under that line of thinking, it's hard to arrive at the possibility that we're being visited by alien life forms.
Then, there's all the super interesting sociological and psychological factors about open-minded skeptics on one hand, and the debunkers on the other side. You don't have to scratch too hard beneath the surface of both to find odd beliefs at work.
And correct me if I'm wrong, but other than rumors of the existence of high resolution video evidence, the only credible thing left standing in the end is eye witnesses who are specifically people flying on aircraft, either as pilots or passengers. Am I missing something, or is there yet to be a serious study about these kinds of visuals vis-a-vis the physiology of flying? I don't mean mistaking Venus for a spaceship. I mean the appearance of white and bright objects shaped like cigars, Tic-Tacs, etc. Before we decide that incidents like O'Hare 2007 buttress the pattern of pilot and passenger eye-witness accounts, shouldn't there be a study of visual perception in high-speed aircraft?
I think some of it may be chalked up to the artifacts of digital photography as well.
Re: UFO's
Posted: Sun May 09, 2021 9:13 pm
by AV8RCAT
Ufologists would claim that lack of hard evidence means that the Government has intercepted all of it. What a remarkable accomplishment that would be.
Longhorned wrote: ↑Sat May 08, 2021 7:30 pm
The thing I don't buy is how this would be the technology of a civilization millions of years more advanced than ours. I get what these objects do and how it's beyond anything we can fathom, but technology changes at an exponential pace following industrialization.
There is a theory of a "timeless warp bubble" created during FTL that would help make manned travel possible, something similar portrayed in the Netflix series "Another Life" (cliche ridden, but not bad)
Longhorned wrote: ↑Sun May 09, 2021 9:57 am
Yeah, so that's stuff about the extraterrestrial hypothesis. Basically, even under that line of thinking, it's hard to arrive at the possibility that we're being visited by alien life forms.
Then, there's all the super interesting sociological and psychological factors about open-minded skeptics on one hand, and the debunkers on the other side. You don't have to scratch too hard beneath the surface of both to find odd beliefs at work.
And correct me if I'm wrong, but other than rumors of the existence of high resolution video evidence, the only credible thing left standing in the end is eye witnesses who are specifically people flying on aircraft, either as pilots or passengers. Am I missing something, or is there yet to be a serious study about these kinds of visuals vis-a-vis the physiology of flying? I don't mean mistaking Venus for a spaceship. I mean the appearance of white and bright objects shaped like cigars, Tic-Tacs, etc. Before we decide that incidents like O'Hare 2007 buttress the pattern of pilot and passenger eye-witness accounts, shouldn't there be a study of visual perception in high-speed aircraft?
I really don't understand the use of "advanced" in these discussions. The evolution of "intelligence" is neither inevitable, nor any kind of "evidence of advance". And, if "intelligence" were to evolve elsewhere, technology like we've seen here on earth would also not be inevitable.
At present, life on earth is being more threatened by the "intelligence" that has evolved, and the technology it has spawned, than by anything else in the history of the planet!! And, that in an astronomically brief time period!!
Longhorned wrote: ↑Sun May 09, 2021 9:57 am
Yeah, so that's stuff about the extraterrestrial hypothesis. Basically, even under that line of thinking, it's hard to arrive at the possibility that we're being visited by alien life forms.
Then, there's all the super interesting sociological and psychological factors about open-minded skeptics on one hand, and the debunkers on the other side. You don't have to scratch too hard beneath the surface of both to find odd beliefs at work.
And correct me if I'm wrong, but other than rumors of the existence of high resolution video evidence, the only credible thing left standing in the end is eye witnesses who are specifically people flying on aircraft, either as pilots or passengers. Am I missing something, or is there yet to be a serious study about these kinds of visuals vis-a-vis the physiology of flying? I don't mean mistaking Venus for a spaceship. I mean the appearance of white and bright objects shaped like cigars, Tic-Tacs, etc. Before we decide that incidents like O'Hare 2007 buttress the pattern of pilot and passenger eye-witness accounts, shouldn't there be a study of visual perception in high-speed aircraft?
I really don't understand the use of "advanced" in these discussions. The evolution of "intelligence" is neither inevitable, nor any kind of "evidence of advance". And, if "intelligence" were to evolve elsewhere, technology like we've seen here on earth would also not be inevitable.
At present, life on earth is being more threatened by the "intelligence" that has evolved, and the technology it has spawned, than by anything else in the history of the planet!! And, that in an astronomically brief time period!!
I'm referring to the rhetoric. But "advanced" conjoins with "progress", and both are imperializing ways of thinking we generally live by in an unreflective way that's harmful for the world. And you bring up another point: this way of framing UAP's as either extraterrestrial or Chinese (see Marco Rubio for example) reifies notions of progress by driving an anxiety central to imperialism: How do WE stack up against others who might do what WE do (arrive, assess, conquer, study, extract, and exploit)? As though it's somehow natural that the universe should be this way, rather than challenging ourselves to unlearn a particular cultural circumstance and how we perpetuate it.
This Sunday on 60 Minutes Facial recognition used to identify criminal suspects; unidentified aerial phenomena, UAPs, are being formally addressed by the U.S. government; professional tennis player Rafael Nadal.
This Sunday on 60 Minutes Facial recognition used to identify criminal suspects; unidentified aerial phenomena, UAPs, are being formally addressed by the U.S. government; professional tennis player Rafael Nadal.
Two observations:
1) As with the newly released 2019 video where a vehicle maneuvers impossibly in the air before entering the ocean water, the Navy has been dealing with these encounters every day for years. The eyewitnesses captured on audio gasp in awe. And, apparently, there must be a ranking service member who says, "There's one! Break out the video camera! No! Not that one! Grab the one with the 1920's era grainy, low resolution black and white video capturing technology!"
2) If these vehicles travel at hundreds of knots through the ocean waters, where are all the orca carcasses? Imagine being the apex predator of the ocean and having to deal with these underwater spaceships that don't drive like they live here.
Re: UFO's
Posted: Sat May 15, 2021 10:07 am
by AV8RCAT
Of course the ufologist answer to that would be that Govt has hi def images and videos, but they only allow us to see the shitty ones.
Re: UFO's
Posted: Sat May 15, 2021 10:38 am
by Longhorned
AV8RCAT wrote: ↑Sat May 15, 2021 10:07 am
Of course the ufologist answer to that would be that Govt has hi def images and videos, but they only allow us to see the shitty ones.
Midshipman: "Why don't we record these spaceships on a regular camera? Or even a cell phone?"
Lieutenant: "Because, sailor! If civilian eyes can make out the ocean and the shape of the vehicle, they'll see the UFO dive into the water like we describe it. Then what do they need our stories for? Nobody would listen to our stories! Hey! Did I ever tell you the one about the bear who stole my pants?"
Re: UFO's
Posted: Sat May 15, 2021 11:00 am
by AV8RCAT
Maybe they have a "for public eyes only" filter that shittifies clear images.
Re: UFO's
Posted: Mon May 17, 2021 7:56 am
by AV8RCAT
Watched an unusual movie called The Gulf of Silence (free on Tubi). Fiction mockumentary, monologue type of thing that introduces the theory that the aliens are here for some reason, perhaps undersea mining, but don't want anything to do with us.
Re: UFO's
Posted: Mon May 17, 2021 8:22 am
by UAEebs86
Re: UFO's
Posted: Wed May 19, 2021 8:54 am
by UAEebs86
Re: UFO's
Posted: Wed May 19, 2021 9:52 am
by Longhorned
He's funny and he's also right. But I totally buy that there's no secret conspiracy because of a weird sociology that flat-out prevented communal acknowledgment that pilots, and apparently ship-bound servicemen, see what appears to be flying Tic Tacs and other weird shapes, and that a minor but non-trivial amount of these sitings haven't been explained, and aren't understood by literally anybody. If that weird sociology didn't exist, climate scientists, physicists, psychologists, and whoever engineers the radar and infrared equipment would have big grants to study what's happening.
No shit. The media is starting to ramp it up though.
Re: UFO's
Posted: Wed May 19, 2021 11:21 pm
by AV8RCAT
You need a pitchfork and wood chipper to get through all the UFO documentaries out there. To stay away from inter-dimensional crap and Human/Grey exchange programs and cooperative secret base stuff, a good start would be "The Phenomenon". I think it's on Hulu. As mentioned before, "The Gulf of Silence", not a documentary, but looks like one and is strange and creepily compelling, to me anyway.
Re: UFO's
Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 2:12 pm
by Longhorned
If we're ready to go aliens, what about some kind of fish instead? Aren't the darkest depths of the ocean famously unstudied? What if we're just the second smartest species on the planet, and there are these highly evolved forms of marine life down there engineering watercraft capable of flying through the atmosphere?
How is this less plausible than extraterrestrials? I'm ready to make my mark on ufology.
Re: UFO's
Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 2:16 pm
by Chicat
Since the world is flat, maybe there is a more advanced species living on the other side that want to have nothing to do with us smelly mammals but also from time to time need to check in and make sure we aren't going to fuck up the other side of the planet too.
Re: UFO's
Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 2:25 pm
by Merkin
Maybe Godzilla is an alien after all and not the result of some nuclear test.
Thinking 1960's Raymond Burr Japanese Godzilla movie. Haven't seen the new one.
Re: UFO's
Posted: Fri May 21, 2021 9:57 pm
by AV8RCAT
Longhorned wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 2:12 pm
If we're ready to go aliens, what about some kind of fish instead? Aren't the darkest depths of the ocean famously unstudied? What if we're just the second smartest species on the planet, and there are these highly evolved forms of marine life down there engineering watercraft capable of flying through the atmosphere?
How is this less plausible than extraterrestrials? I'm ready to make my mark on ufology.
Since 2017: Revelation of the AATIP program, 6 videos confirmed by the Navy as UAP. 3 strange still photos confirmed taken from fighter jets. Testimony from pilots, etc. Announcement that Navy personnel are now directed to report such sightings assured of no negative career consequences. Creation of the UAP Task force. Public figures discussing the phenomenon include Harry Reid, who launched AAITIP. John Podesta, Christopher Mellon, former CIA directors R James Woolsey and John Brennan, former director of National Intelligence, John Ratcliffe, President Obama, Senator Rubio.
Aside from what the UFO's are, what is going on?
Why is the Gov't saying anything?
Unauthorized leaks that they can't keep a lid on anymore so they have get in front of it?
Intentional?
Stoking instead of tamping. That's kind of new.
Maybe the upcoming report will be the big dousing.
Re: UFO's
Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 4:16 pm
by UAEebs86
Re: UFO's
Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 4:26 pm
by Chicat
The big reveal is that unidentified flying objects are unidentified.
Oh, except for a deflating party balloon. They nailed that one.
Re: UFO's
Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 4:32 pm
by Longhorned
Outsmarted by the little green men yet again!
Re: UFO's
Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 7:20 pm
by AV8RCAT
So, since 2004, the Navy has investigated 144 incidents. They're pretty sure it's not equipment anomalies or weather phenomenon etc, because they have multiple sensor data, and in a dozen or so, witnessed capabilities that our best aircraft can't even approach ............and they don't have a clue what 143 of them are.
That's comforting.
Re: UFO's
Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 7:27 pm
by scumdevils86
Doesn't really mean much of anything. Meh.
Re: UFO's
Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 7:34 pm
by UAEebs86
I recently read an article that said given the age of the universe, and the technology (optical/radio telescopes, etc.) we have now to peer out into it, if there was a sufficiently advanced civilization that was able to move amongst the galaxies we should be able to see evidence of them by now.
I still think the odds are there's some kind of life out there, just not sure what form it is in or how advanced it is. I have seen no evidence they have visited us.
Re: UFO's
Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 7:38 pm
by ASUHATER!
UAEebs86 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 7:34 pm
I recently read an article that said given the age of the universe, and the technology (optical/radio telescopes, etc.) we have now to peer out into it, if there was a sufficiently advanced civilization that was able to move amongst the galaxies we should be able to see evidence of them by now.
I still think the odds are there's some kind of life out there, just not sure what form it is in or how advanced it is. I have seen no evidence they have visited us.
Articles like that are bunk. Our telescopes do almost nothing for us as far as our ability to actually see any details like that. Odds are almost certain there is life out there and probably even intelligent life, but the universe is so unfathomably big that us using our puny technology we have currently does nothing to try to find it.
Fuckin great that a bullshit shakedown for tax dollars is one of the less disturbing possible explanations.
So, UFO's are identified as "unidentified flying objects"!!!
Amazing news!!!
Re: UFO's
Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2021 9:23 am
by Longhorned
Well, let's be honest. The report is deflated by knowing what it would say in advance, but the bottom line is that there are physically present, flying objects that don't look or move like anything scientists, pilots, the military, or national intelligence have otherwise ever seen in nature or technology. A non-trivial amount of cases defy misidentification. It's in that sense that they're unidentified, not like a group of campers not familiar with what a weather balloon looks like.
Re: UFO's
Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2021 12:40 pm
by AV8RCAT
It's a pretty lame assessment. Lists prosaic explanations and then all but dismisses them. Their "other" category contains events:
"we may require additional
scientific knowledge to successfully collect on, analyze and characterize some of them. We
would group such objects in this category pending scientific advances that allowed us to better
understand them"
Like 143 out of 144?
What the hell are they talking about? Invisible one's that also can't be detected by our current devices?
The only interesting thing in this report is the fact that they admit concerns and want to investigate. That is a paradigm shift in the official stance.
Re: UFO's
Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2021 1:43 pm
by AV8RCAT
Anyway...what this leads to is lot's of money spent on AI systems that can inventively analyze the data as the Chinese are planning, which means we are already developing it. What this leads to is our AI making contact, defecting to the aliens and the next installment in the "Terminator" franchise.
Re: UFO's
Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2021 8:48 pm
by UAEebs86
Check out Mick West on YouTube. Also Joe Scott and Anton Petrov. It isn't aliens and it isn't high tech from China or Russia.
It's FLIR and radar artifacts and people who don't know how to do trigonometry.
How come none of these sightings are with optical cameras or with our spy satellites?
The operators admitted the resolution is so good they could read the names on players jerseys during the Super Bowl.
Re: UFO's
Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2021 9:15 pm
by Chicat
If you see a UFO it’s guaranteed that for some reason you’ll only have your idiot cousin Bobby’s ‘08 Nokia flip phone to record it with.
Re: UFO's
Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2021 9:50 pm
by AV8RCAT
The supposed theory, supposedly leaked by someone, supposedly in the intel community, is that there are high res images even from as close as 50 feet among the classified material.
Mick West is no more credible than Lue Elizondo. Even if their base motives are genuine, they have franchised this thing for fame and gain.
In the assessment, 80 of 144 have corroborating sensor data from multiple sources. From what I've read, the authors are pretty convinced that many, if not most of these, are physical objects.
Ruling out misidentified known objects would be the 1st thing I would do.
Re: UFO's
Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 9:56 am
by PieceOfMeat
Chicat wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 9:15 pm
If you see a UFO it’s guaranteed that for some reason you’ll only have your idiot cousin Bobby’s ‘08 Nokia flip phone to record it with.
and in bobby's AOL search history are "chemtrails" and "flat earth" among other things
Re: UFO's
Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 10:09 am
by azcat49
Their report was really kind of stupid. No mention of Roswell or past history that stoked this whole thing.
Why not declassify all you have like I think was asked. It’s not like a vast majority of the human race doesn’t believe in other celestial life.
Re: UFO's
Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 10:40 am
by Longhorned
I think the New Yorker article is relevant. I get the appeal of Mick West, and he's basically right about individual cases and what motivates them, but he's got his own weird UFO axe to grind and he obviously doesn't have all the material necessary to draw an overarching conclusion. I trust his work more than those who oppose him, though, and my only holdout is the assertion that there's photographic evidence under wraps, including clear footage of an unexplained object flying out of the ocean. The reason why such a weird possibility matters is because of the credible eyewitnesses.
I'm skeptical of strong skepticism because I've seen this movie before in my line of work. You get eyewitnesses, small sample sizes, rumors of evidence hidden in storage, and the possibility of something that doesn't fit what we know. And then everyone rallies around the skeptics and they all pile on, until the goods get revealed.
Re: UFO's
Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 3:17 pm
by Merkin
Re: UFO's
Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 3:29 pm
by Longhorned
Re: UFO's
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:01 am
by 84Cat
Re: UFO's
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:15 am
by Longhorned
I love it. That's my favorite thing about this topic. It's the only genuine religious movement in the world. Nothing else can approximate the medieval European religious experience.
Re: UFO's
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:23 am
by UAEebs86
"Do you believe in UFO's" is a stupid way to phrase the question. Of course there are occasionally going to be objects in the sky that are initially unidentified and may remain unidentified.
I believe what they are trying to ask is: Do you believe any of these unidentified flying objects are aliens from elsewhere in the universe?
For me, it's a hard no.
Re: UFO's
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:41 am
by Longhorned
Yeah but it's also a belief that something's coming and that the limits of a world as understood through science and our familiar political order are about to be shattered. When has there ever been so many people who feel encouraged to believe that? I think it's stunning to witness instead of just read about from 700 years ago, while also scary knowing that these are exactly the same people who will blame marginalized groups of people when it doesn't happen.
Re: UFO's
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:46 am
by pc in NM
UAEebs86 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:23 am
"Do you believe in UFO's" is a stupid way to phrase the question. Of course there are occasionally going to be objects in the sky that are initially unidentified and may remain unidentified.
I believe what they are trying to ask is: Do you believe any of these unidentified flying objects are aliens from elsewhere in the universe?
