Bear Down Wildcats

azcat49 wrote:Did they expand the playoffs or do they still need to be in the top 8 and if so are they going 82 games to determine seeding?

If 9th place is within 4 games of 8th then there is a play in for the 8th spot

azcat49 wrote:Did they expand the playoffs or do they still need to be in the top 8 and if so are they going 82 games to determine seeding?

Jaren Jackson Jr tore his meniscus, so Memphis is cooked.

Things are lining up for the Suns.

Thx Greg for the explanation. Suns look good.

azgreg wrote:

azcat49 wrote:Suns look like a different team in the bubble. Can they make the playoffs?

If Portland loses tonight the Suns will only be 1 game out of 9th spot.

Fuck! I hate rooting for the Rockets.

Clippers game was first game I watched all season and only watched because it was my Uncle’s birthday and we were all in a Google Meeting celebrating with basketball. He was the Lawyer uncle who had a skybox in the Barkley years for client outreach where a few games a year he used for family.

That was a fun game.

Suns are fun again

That run at the end of the 3rd and begginning of the 4th with Booker and Ayton on the bench was outstanding.

Blazers and Memphis don't have an easy finish but the Suns seed to win at least 3 of these. Heat, Thunder, 76ers, Mavs

Jefe wrote:Blazers and Memphis don't have an easy finish but the Suns seed to win at least 3 of these. Heat, Thunder, 76ers, Mavs

Even if the Suns win out I don't think they get in.

What the fuck has gotten into the Suns?

Portland lost when their guy bricked two FT’s that could have won it for them. Half Game behind them but they are still one game behind San Antonio in the loss column. Would be fun to see them in that 8-9 play in game

azgreg wrote:What the fuck has gotten into the Suns?

They lost like 10 close games this year, several at the buzzer or in final minute. They have barely had any semblance of health or consistent rotation with Ayton suspension/injury, and Rubio off and on nagging injuries, Oubre, Cam, and Baynes.

I always thought this was a 34-40 win team.

They are definitely looking like the upside that swept the Bucks last year and won 3/4 from them these past two years and who plays up when challenged.

Simmons-less Sixers on Tuesday, then Thunder, then Mavs to finish.

JMJ,
Why did they trade TJ Warren for a bag of balls? He's tearing it up.

UAEebs86 wrote:JMJ,
Why did they trade TJ Warren for a bag of balls? He's tearing it up.

TJ Warren quit on the Suns.

He was cleared by the team Doctors from his ankle injury in January. Warren cites mental uncertainty about returning to play and needed time to clear hurdles. Days turned into weeks turned into months. He was a soft, oft-injured player who mentally checked out on a team who developed him, started him, payed him well. He didn’t pass, didn’t rebound, and was a net-negative defender, though he did play the lanes decently to generate steals.

More importantly, he wasn’t a PG. Suns didn’t just trade Warren for nothing. They traded Jackson for nothing, including Melton to acquire Carter as well.

Those two moves generated 23 million in CAP, which was spent on Rubio & Baynes.

As for why Warren was traded with an early 2nd Rounder for Cash?

Minimum of six teams with space were contacted for Warren trades. All six declined. Suns added the 2nd to entice Pacers. They needed a scorer, Suns needed a PG. according to Malcom Brogdon, Suns went hard after him. It was long believed Rubio to Pacers was a given. When Brogdon signed with the Pacers the Suns quickly shifted to Rubio.

Here’s the funny thing. Until the Bubble, Warren’s peak Pacers stats weren’t better than his peak stats with Phoenix. Not in points. Not in rebounds. Not in 3FG%.

The Bubble has catapulted Warren to the top of the discussion heap, so the trade looks bad. But teams trade capable players for CAP space all the time. Often times they include 1sts (like the Warriors trading Iguodala and a 1st to Memphis for space).

Suns needed a PG with this roster that included Oubre (plays Defense), Mikal (plays Defense), Cam (plays Defense). They didn’t need a black hole who was injured 50% of his games and willing to quit on his team when they needed him.

Thanks for the explanation JMJ. I've been out of the loop a bit.

UAEebs86 wrote:Thanks for the explanation JMJ. I've been out of the loop a bit.

I talked back and forth with a few of the media and the simplest way to put it is the execs and training/medical staffs believed Warren was lying about his injury. They literally couldn’t find anything.

The fact Warren is claiming the trade is disrespectful is the most disingenuous aspect of this whole thing.

Suns should have been able to get more for a 25-year old, multi-year 18 ppg scorer with multiple years of shooting 37% or better from range, coming off a career year for shooting on a 12-per year deal.

Warren’s own tanking made that impossible. I know for a fact at least one team turned down Warren/2nd got Cash. Seriously. That’s how little he was thought of.

Well the Spurs won and the only have the Rockets and Jazz left. Memphis loss do while the Suns are one game down in the loss column it looks bleak to find a way in

azcat49 wrote:Well the Spurs won and the only have the Rockets and Jazz left. Memphis loss do while the Suns are one game down in the loss column it looks bleak to find a way in

Suns basically have to win out. Memphis needs to lose out I believe.

Portland will likely be in.

Suns hold the tie-breaker with Spurs.

Pelicans are done.

Team - games back - remaining games

Memphis Grizzlies - 0 - Boston, Milwaukee
Portland Trail Blazers - 1 - Philadelphia, Dallas, Brooklyn
San Antonio Spurs - 1 - Houston, Utah
Phoenix Suns - 1.5 - Oklahoma City, Philadelphia, Dallas
New Orleans Pelicans - 2.5 - Sacramento, Orlando
Sacramento Kings - 3 - Houston, New Orleans, Los Angeles

JMJ, the recent comment by Draymond Green concerning Booker is disconcerting. I know the Suns have him locked up and he is ultra competitive and won’t quit on the team but do you sense he is happy with the direction of the franchise?

He certainly appears to be positioned to be another Kobe type of player. The head coach is sold and Ayton seems to be progressing well. Can you give us the state of the Suns and what you see. The future for the franchise

azcat49 wrote:JMJ, the recent comment by Draymond Green concerning Booker is disconcerting. I know the Suns have him locked up and he is ultra competitive and won’t quit on the team but do you sense he is happy with the direction of the franchise?

He certainly appears to be positioned to be another Kobe type of player. The head coach is sold and Ayton seems to be progressing well. Can you give us the state of the Suns and what you see. The future for the franchise

Let’s clear the offseason.

But I don’t see Draymond’s comments having any relevance, because Booker is bought in with a Coach he likes who pushes him, with a nice combination of quality vets and developing, upside youth, a core 4 of Booker, Ayton, Oubre, Mikal (add Cam if you want for a 5th) that are all within a few years of each other in age, and they have CAP the next 2 offseasons plus their own 1sts.

They are in a good place.

I don’t see Booker being a quitter like Bledsoe or Warren. He spoke about how the fan support has been there for him since day one and he feels the Suns owe the Fans to be competence and win.

if the Suns win out and Portland loses one of the final two games and Memphis wins a remaining game, Suns are in as the 9
if the Suns win out and Portland loses one of the final two games and Memphis losses both remaining games, Suns are in as the 8
if the Suns win two out of three they need Portland to lose both their last two games and San Antonio to lose one of their last two games to be in

Portland plays Dallas, who is locked into the 7 seed and is resting guys against Utah tomorrow, likely against Portland as well. Nets are also locked into 7 and may rest guys too. Expect Portland to be the 8 seed.

TucsonClip wrote:Portland plays Dallas, who is locked into the 7 seed and is resting guys against Utah tomorrow, likely against Portland as well. Nets are also locked into 7 and may rest guys too. Expect Portland to be the 8 seed.

Portland is in, most likely.

Suns chances mostly hinge on tonight vs Thunder. They played yesterday, so, hopefully they wear down in the second half.

Memphis has been surprisingly competitive without JJJ. Although, advances states say they are a net 4 points better with him off the court, so, maybe not surprisingly.

I feel the Suns are probably going to miss. They basically need a loss from 2 teams who are now playing mostly resting teams.

Suns have Thunder tonight, then two games vs Sixers (injuries) tomorrow and Mavericks (resting) Thursday.

But Suns struggle with teams they should beat easily. So many of their losses are WTF losses like that, so, they aren’t gimmies.

Suns have DOMINATED OKC for three quarters. Ayton didn’t play the first for being late for a virus test.

Not sure about the effort OKC is putting in here but the league would do themselves a favor if they found a way to get Phoenix into the playoffs. They look fantastic

Crown the Suns as Bubble Champs

Ayton missed his covid test and 1Q. They were down 14 and then up 10 when he came back in the 2Q. Crazy

JMarkJohns wrote:Suns needed a PG with this roster that included Oubre (plays Defense), Mikal (plays Defense), Cam (plays Defense). They didn’t need a black hole who was injured 50% of his games and willing to quit on his team when they needed him.

Warren or Bledsoe haha? Same guy bring both of those guys here?

So now the suns and Trail Blazers have 39 losses with two games to play. San Antonio and Memphis both have 38 with two to Play. They are listing Portland as the #9 Seed but if they lose one and the Suns win both they are saying we will be the play in team even though SA has 38 loses. This makes no sense to me

Could you imagine if the Suns had drafted Doncic instead of Ayton.

azcat49 wrote:So now the suns and Trail Blazers have 39 losses with two games to play. San Antonio and Memphis both have 38 with two to Play. They are listing Portland as the #9 Seed but if they lose one and the Suns win both they are saying we will be the play in team even though SA has 38 loses. This makes no sense to me

Based off winning percentage since not all teams will have played the same number of games.

Irish27 wrote:Could you imagine if the Suns had drafted Doncic instead of Ayton.

I can.

I can imagine no interior defense to help two highly suspect wing defenders
I can imagine them not acquiring Mikal Bridges, furthering their poor wing defense
I can imagine no legit PG signing to play alongside two ball-dominant, 20+ shot, 30% usage wings
I can imagine Warren also joining this chucking barrage and barely any defense
I can imagine Igor still is the coach and not Monty, for better or for worse since he and Luka are close
I can imagine no Oubre which means no #ValleyBoyz fandom rally
I can imagine no Cam because McD is probably still general manager because their shitty but exciting Suns score a lot and make highlights

Now, maybe that is better than this? But Luka was not saving last years team, and, absent a PG, wholesale shooting, defensive, & coaching changes, I’m not sure this season is much better for Booker/Luka/Jackson and... ???

I’m not discounting Luka. He’s great. Right now, definitely the better player of he and Ayton, and, he seems more willing to play aggressive meaning he may always be the better player.

But Ayton is the 2nd most important player on the Suns according to advanced metrics, and his advanced D metrics suggest All-Defensive upside.

Factor in his gravity and Booker’s complement each other rather than step all over each other and you have a more ideal pairing if paired with shooters and defenders and smart passers.

JMarkJohns wrote:

Irish27 wrote:Could you imagine if the Suns had drafted Doncic instead of Ayton.

I can.

I can imagine no interior defense to help two highly suspect wing defenders
I can imagine them not acquiring Mikal Bridges, furthering their poor wing defense
I can imagine no legit PG signing to play alongside two ball-dominant, 20+ shot, 30% usage wings
I can imagine Warren also joining this chucking barrage and barely any defense
I can imagine Igor still is the coach and not Monty, for better or for worse since he and Luka are close
I can imagine no Oubre which means no #ValleyBoyz fandom rally
I can imagine no Cam because McD is probably still general manager because their shitty but exciting Suns score a lot and make highlights

Now, maybe that is better than this? But Luka was not saving last years team, and, absent a PG, wholesale shooting, defensive, & coaching changes, I’m not sure this season is much better for Booker/Luka/Jackson and... ???

I’m not discounting Luka. He’s great. Right now, definitely the better player of he and Ayton, and, he seems more willing to play aggressive meaning he may always be the better player.

But Ayton is the 2nd most important player on the Suns according to advanced metrics, and his advanced D metrics suggest All-Defensive upside.

Factor in his gravity and Booker’s complement each other rather than step all over each other and you have a more ideal pairing if paired with shooters and defenders and smart passers.

Ayton is a very good player, but I would still take Doncic. Ayton is soft, not aggressive. He disappears too many times in a game. Doncic loves the game. That shows on the court. He is going to be a star for a long time. The Suns would be a better team with Luka. They could of gone after Clint Capela if they drafted Doncic. Doncic is a player that comes around once in 20 years or so. I could ask 15 NBA experts whether the Suns should of taken Luka, and all would of said yes.

Irish27 wrote:

JMarkJohns wrote:

Irish27 wrote:Could you imagine if the Suns had drafted Doncic instead of Ayton.

I can.

I can imagine no interior defense to help two highly suspect wing defenders
I can imagine them not acquiring Mikal Bridges, furthering their poor wing defense
I can imagine no legit PG signing to play alongside two ball-dominant, 20+ shot, 30% usage wings
I can imagine Warren also joining this chucking barrage and barely any defense
I can imagine Igor still is the coach and not Monty, for better or for worse since he and Luka are close
I can imagine no Oubre which means no #ValleyBoyz fandom rally
I can imagine no Cam because McD is probably still general manager because their shitty but exciting Suns score a lot and make highlights

Now, maybe that is better than this? But Luka was not saving last years team, and, absent a PG, wholesale shooting, defensive, & coaching changes, I’m not sure this season is much better for Booker/Luka/Jackson and... ???

I’m not discounting Luka. He’s great. Right now, definitely the better player of he and Ayton, and, he seems more willing to play aggressive meaning he may always be the better player.

But Ayton is the 2nd most important player on the Suns according to advanced metrics, and his advanced D metrics suggest All-Defensive upside.

Factor in his gravity and Booker’s complement each other rather than step all over each other and you have a more ideal pairing if paired with shooters and defenders and smart passers.

Ayton is a very good player, but I would still take Doncic. Ayton is soft, not aggressive. He disappears too many times in a game. Doncic loves the game. That shows on the court. He is going to be a star for a long time. The Suns would be a better team with Luka. They could of gone after Clint Capela if they drafted Doncic. Doncic is a player that comes around once in 20 years or so. I could ask 15 NBA experts whether the Suns should of taken Luka, and all would of said yes.

How many said it before the 2018 draft? That is what matters

Irish27 wrote:

JMarkJohns wrote:

Irish27 wrote:Could you imagine if the Suns had drafted Doncic instead of Ayton.

I can.

I can imagine no interior defense to help two highly suspect wing defenders
I can imagine them not acquiring Mikal Bridges, furthering their poor wing defense
I can imagine no legit PG signing to play alongside two ball-dominant, 20+ shot, 30% usage wings
I can imagine Warren also joining this chucking barrage and barely any defense
I can imagine Igor still is the coach and not Monty, for better or for worse since he and Luka are close
I can imagine no Oubre which means no #ValleyBoyz fandom rally
I can imagine no Cam because McD is probably still general manager because their shitty but exciting Suns score a lot and make highlights

Now, maybe that is better than this? But Luka was not saving last years team, and, absent a PG, wholesale shooting, defensive, & coaching changes, I’m not sure this season is much better for Booker/Luka/Jackson and... ???

I’m not discounting Luka. He’s great. Right now, definitely the better player of he and Ayton, and, he seems more willing to play aggressive meaning he may always be the better player.

But Ayton is the 2nd most important player on the Suns according to advanced metrics, and his advanced D metrics suggest All-Defensive upside.

Factor in his gravity and Booker’s complement each other rather than step all over each other and you have a more ideal pairing if paired with shooters and defenders and smart passers.

Ayton is a very good player, but I would still take Doncic. Ayton is soft, not aggressive. He disappears too many times in a game. Doncic loves the game. That shows on the court. He is going to be a star for a long time. The Suns would be a better team with Luka. They could of gone after Clint Capela if they drafted Doncic. Doncic is a player that comes around once in 20 years or so. I could ask 15 NBA experts whether the Suns should of taken Luka, and all would of said yes.

Im not saying you’re wrong. I’m saying it is infinitely more complicated than that.

They didn’t have the realistic CAP to get Capella. Who was an Restricted Free Agent and going to be matched at what the Suns could offer. They would have needed to overpay by a lot.

They had 15 million in 2018 Offseason. Capella got that from Houston no fuss.

Rosters are tricky things.

Yes, Luka is better. Probably will be. He’s a virtuoso on offense and shit on D and would step all over what Booker was and is now, and maybe that’s not a concern because Luka is also arguably better than Book (though I’m not there yet, because Booker is a better shooter and more efficient high-volume scorer).

But after those 2 the next best players were:

Warren, another No D, ball-dominant scorer
Jackson, looked to be developing, but not really
Ariza, quit trying after 5 games, traded a few months into season
Holmes, solid hustle bum who makes plays at C but isn’t game-planable
Chandler, waived soon into season

Luka sorta means you don’t need a PG, so I’ll give you that, but that is an atrocious shooting and defensive team.

And I’m not sure it gets much better this last offseason. Maybe they make a fancy trade for a Big? Capella was available via trade. Maybe they make a play for Gordon? Who knows.

But your best players are still very iffy on D and basically duplicate each other in multiple skills/ball-dominance, and you are stuck with Igor as coach. Maybe that works out. But players basically quit on him, so, who knows.

I do not think Booker/Luka would be 6-0 in the Bubble.

This current Suns team has an older-school, Spurs-esque construction and focus on D, on depth, on shooting. Now it’s young and has some silly personalities that get in their own way.

But I see what Jones is doing. I agree with it.

Dump Kaminsky/Okobo/1st and go hard after Fred VanVleet and with health, this team has playoffs outright next year upside with insane youth for further upside.

Enjoy reading you guys getting in the weeds on these two guys. I can’t complain about Ayton and where he is in his development. Booker and him are what 23 and 20? If the Suns can keep them together and add or keep those key pieces I would be very happy

Thoughts are with Paul and his family. I went to high school with his daughter.

My family moved to Phoenix in 1970 and the Suns were my first local sports team fandom. Hoping for the best.

Oh my. That is a tough one to battle but remembering Paul and his ultra competitiveness that cancer is in a fight.

Luka and KP playing against the Blazers tonight. Stars are aligning...

Suns win again... The greatest Bubble team in the history of the world.

But still need some help....

So the Grizzlies lost but I assume they own the tiebreaker with us as does Portland. Portland up at half on the Mavs

Looks like all 4 teams are basically tied for the 2 spots... crazy.

Memphis Grizzlies: 33 - 39 - .458 - 20 - Milwaukee
Portland Trail Blazers: 33 - 39 - .458 - 20 - Dallas (currently winning), Brooklyn
Phoenix Suns: 33 - 39 - .458 - 20 - Dallas
San Antonio Spurs: 32 - 38 - .457 - 20 - Utah

azcat49 wrote:So the Grizzlies lost but I assume they own the tiebreaker with us as does Portland. Portland up at half on the Mavs

If the Grizzlies lose out, and the Suns win out, Suns are in. If the Blazers win out and the Grizzlies lose out, Portland is in.

If the Grizzlies win, they are in, and Suns would need to win out and Portland to lose out.

Realistically, I think Phoenix is 9th and Portland is 8th.

For Suns to be 8th, they would need Grizzlies and Portland to lose out.

To be. Ninth they need to win vs Dallas, and have Grizzlies lose, I’m pretty sure that’s it.

Simpler...

I know it's sacrilege, but I'm rooting for the Spurs so they can set a record playoff appearance.