"For the reasons described in this Report, and after a comprehensive investigation, we have concluded that, in connection with the AFC Championship Game, it is more probable than not that New England Patriots personnel participated in violations of the Playing Rules and were involved in a deliberate effort to circumvent the rules."
"Based on the evidence, it also is our view that it is more probable than not that Tom Brady (the quarterback for the Patriots) was at least generally aware of the inappropriate activities of McNally and Jastremski involving the release of air from Patriots game balls."
***NFL RESPONSE***
Ted Wells transmitted his report to Commissioner Goodell and the New England Patriots earlier today on the footballs used in the AFC Championship Game on January 18, 2015. Mr. Wells requested that our office make it available to the public at 1 p.m. ET. It is now posted on NFLCommunications.com and NFLMedia.com. Following is a statement by Commissioner Goodell:
STATEMENT OF NFL COMMISSIONER ROGER GOODELL
I want to express my appreciation to Ted Wells and his colleagues for performing a thorough and independent investigation, the findings and conclusions of which are set forth in today’s comprehensive report.
As with other recent matters involving violations of competitive rules, Troy Vincent and his team will consider what steps to take in light of the report, both with respect to possible disciplinary action and to any changes in protocols that are necessary to avoid future incidents of this type. At the same time, we will continue our efforts vigorously to protect the integrity of the game and promote fair play at all times.
Patriots Guilty of Deflate-Gate
Moderators: UAdevil, JMarkJohns
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the real dill
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Chicat
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Re: Patriots Guilty of Deflate-Gate
Cheating Cheaters Caught Cheating
Easy headline to write...
Easy headline to write...
Of the 12 coaches, Rush picked the one whose fans have the deepest passion, the longest memories, the greatest lung capacity and … did I mention deep passion?
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the real dill
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Re: Patriots Guilty of Deflate-Gate
Three months later we get 'it's more probable than not...'
No shit.
How much did the NFL pay this guy for the investigation?
No shit.
How much did the NFL pay this guy for the investigation?
Re: Patriots Guilty of Deflate-Gate
As punishment the Seahawks get a do-over on the final play of the game
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UAEebs86
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Re: Patriots Guilty of Deflate-Gate
I saw an article somewhere that said if you inflate the balls to the minimum at room temperature, and then take them outside into New England winter weather two hours later, the pressure would be pretty much exactly what was found.
If so, it would be within the rules as written, but certainly gaming the system.
If so, it would be within the rules as written, but certainly gaming the system.
Last edited by UAEebs86 on Wed May 06, 2015 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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the real dill
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the real dill
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Re: Patriots Guilty of Deflate-Gate
Then there is this:UAEebs86 wrote:I saw an article somewhere that said if you inflate the balls to the minimim at room temperature, and then take them outside into New England winter weather two hours later, the pressure would be pretty much exactly what was found.
If so, it would be within the rules as written, but certainly gaming the system.
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Daryl Zero
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Re: Patriots Guilty of Deflate-Gate
Just looking a the report briefly, there are a lot of assumptions.
The balls were tested by two different officials and the difference between their measurements were almost uniformly about .3 to .5 off. For the Patriots, Blakeman's measurements were always lower than Prioleau's measurements on all 11 balls. On 3 out of 4 of the Colts' balls, Blakeman's measurements were about .4 higher than Prioleau's measurements. Blakeman's measurements had 3 out of the 4 Colts' balls underinflated (below 12.5).
The report says that the temperature could not have accounted for all the variance and assumes that the Patriots' balls started at 12.5 and the Colts at 13. The report doesn't say which measurements were relied upon (Blakeman's or Prioleau's or both), what the margin of error is and why the Colts' balls were assumed to start at 13 and not say 13.5.
The texts between the personnel is ridiculously stupid. The bit about Brady, I don't quite understand. There are texts saying that he was pissed off that the balls were overinflated and they seem to say that the balls were at 16. I don't know if that is a joke or an actual measurement in which case Brady would be more than right to be pissed. I don't see anything in the texts which says Brady told anyone to underinflate the balls. These two guys, McNally and Jastremski, were apparently fired from the cast of Dumb and Dumber for being too stupid.
The balls were tested by two different officials and the difference between their measurements were almost uniformly about .3 to .5 off. For the Patriots, Blakeman's measurements were always lower than Prioleau's measurements on all 11 balls. On 3 out of 4 of the Colts' balls, Blakeman's measurements were about .4 higher than Prioleau's measurements. Blakeman's measurements had 3 out of the 4 Colts' balls underinflated (below 12.5).
The report says that the temperature could not have accounted for all the variance and assumes that the Patriots' balls started at 12.5 and the Colts at 13. The report doesn't say which measurements were relied upon (Blakeman's or Prioleau's or both), what the margin of error is and why the Colts' balls were assumed to start at 13 and not say 13.5.
The texts between the personnel is ridiculously stupid. The bit about Brady, I don't quite understand. There are texts saying that he was pissed off that the balls were overinflated and they seem to say that the balls were at 16. I don't know if that is a joke or an actual measurement in which case Brady would be more than right to be pissed. I don't see anything in the texts which says Brady told anyone to underinflate the balls. These two guys, McNally and Jastremski, were apparently fired from the cast of Dumb and Dumber for being too stupid.
Erlich Bachmann: Richard wrote the code, yes, but the inspiration was clear. Let me ask you something. How fast do you think you could jack off every guy in this room? Cause I know how long it would take me. And I could prove it.
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Chicat
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Re: Patriots Guilty of Deflate-Gate
Of the 12 coaches, Rush picked the one whose fans have the deepest passion, the longest memories, the greatest lung capacity and … did I mention deep passion?
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Daryl Zero
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Re: Patriots Guilty of Deflate-Gate
http://www.breitbart.com/sports/2015/05 ... -patriots/
This year’s Wells Report on Deflate-gate, in contrast to last year’s Wells Report on the Dolphins bullying scandal, reads long on innuendo and short on facts. It presents conclusions at odds with the evidence.
Some variation of the word “probably” appears more than twenty times. If a principal accused your kid of “probably” cheating, you, more than probably, wouldn’t like it. And that’s the definite reaction of Tom Brady Sr. Calling the investigation “Framegate,” Brady the Elder told USA Today, “In this country, you’re innocent until proven guilty. It just seems Tommy is now guilty until proven innocent.”
Most incredibly, Ted Wells shows that at least one of the two referees measured that eight of the eleven Patriots game balls fell within where the scientists employed by Wells said they would sink to given weather conditions. This doesn’t indicate a verdict of “probable” guilt. It indicates a zeal to prove an incoming hypothesis.
An example of the overzealousness of Wells appears on page 91 of his report, where he publicizes John Jastremski’s private texts to his mother on a matter completely unrelated to the point of the investigation. The Patriots employee at the heart of the controversy boasts of possessing the ball used by Tom Brady to eclipse the 50,000-yard passing milestone. “Funny…go to patriots.com,” he tells his mother. “They have an article about the 50,000 yard ball…if they only knew
.” The texts talk of the ball, which owner Robert Kraft believed he possessed, possibly funding Jastremski’s honeymoon.
Why, if not to embarrass the man and jeopardize his continued employment, did Wells print such extraneous material? The same goes for allegations that the Pats employees sold freebie tickets for profit, solicited shoes from Uggs pitchman Tom Brady, and sought basketball tickets from the celebrities they worked for. How, in even a tangential way, does this relate to whether they purposefully deflated balls prior to the AFC Championship Game? Here, Ted Wells offers no proof relating to the matter at hand but much proof of his desire to attaint the heretofore unknown employees who denied his allegations.
The inclusion of such extraneous material surely makes for a better read. It also validates Brady’s decision not to allow the investigators to rifle through his cell phone and computers.
Wells dubs Brady’s refusal as “not helpful.” To whom? The report claims that the four-time Super Bowl-winning quarterback denied their entreaties “even though those requests were limited to the subject matter of our investigation.” Clearly, the embarrassing immaterial material released from the communications between the far-from-famous Pats equipment handlers makes this statement a farce.
Elsewhere, Wells relies on evidence suggesting the opposite of what he believes “probably” happened as a way to prove his case. Biased investigators embrace this methodology because it enables them to prove anything. Jim McNally suggesting to “blow up the ball to look like a rugby ball,” a “watermelon,” and a “balloon” might have proved to be a smoking gun if Wells charged the equipment guys of overinflating balls. It’s surely relevant in indicating Brady’s frustration with overinflated balls. But when McNally and Jastremski point to referees pressurizing balls to 16 psi—2.5 psi over the limit—the evidence just as easily points to Brady looking for a ball deflated to regulation than to one deflated below it. It may be the case that Brady sought an edge on the rules. But this evidence presented mostly undermines rather than buttresses that thesis.
Buried deep past the executive summary, Wells concedes that “the air pressure of all of the game balls tested at halftime decreased from the levels measured prior to the game.” In other words, Wells affirmed Bill Belichick’s point, ridiculed by Bill Nye “the Science Guy” and others, that the weather naturally deflates balls.
All of the balls—Patriots balls and Colts balls—lost pressure by halftime. Significantly, the 11 Patriot balls showed greater decreases than the four Colt balls tested. More significantly, judging by what the scientists employed by Wells told him, eight of the 11 balls tested at halftime fell within the expected range of pressure drop based on the measurements of at least one of the two NFL officials who gauged the pigskins. This, more than anything else, invalidates the conclusions of the Wells Report. Though Ted Wells theorizes a conspiracy to depressurize balls, measurements by NFL referees on the majority of the Patriots balls read precisely where the scientific firm employed by the investigators said a ball inflated to 12.5 psi–the NFL minimum–would fall to (between 11.52 and 11.32) as a result of game-time conditions.
Since the psi measurements of the two referees varied somewhat, the opposite–that a majority of the balls failed to meet the expected level–is also true. Remarkably, the report chooses to interpret the data exclusively in a manner that suggests malfeasance. “Most of the individual Patriots measurements recorded at halftime, however, were lower than the range predicted by the Ideal Gas Law,” the report reads. But the fact that by at least one or the other referee’s measurement, the air pressure of eight of eleven balls fell to expected levels undermines the verdict of “probably” guilty.
And surely judgments of “probably” guilty deserve a verdict all their own.
This year’s Wells Report on Deflate-gate, in contrast to last year’s Wells Report on the Dolphins bullying scandal, reads long on innuendo and short on facts. It presents conclusions at odds with the evidence.
Some variation of the word “probably” appears more than twenty times. If a principal accused your kid of “probably” cheating, you, more than probably, wouldn’t like it. And that’s the definite reaction of Tom Brady Sr. Calling the investigation “Framegate,” Brady the Elder told USA Today, “In this country, you’re innocent until proven guilty. It just seems Tommy is now guilty until proven innocent.”
Most incredibly, Ted Wells shows that at least one of the two referees measured that eight of the eleven Patriots game balls fell within where the scientists employed by Wells said they would sink to given weather conditions. This doesn’t indicate a verdict of “probable” guilt. It indicates a zeal to prove an incoming hypothesis.
An example of the overzealousness of Wells appears on page 91 of his report, where he publicizes John Jastremski’s private texts to his mother on a matter completely unrelated to the point of the investigation. The Patriots employee at the heart of the controversy boasts of possessing the ball used by Tom Brady to eclipse the 50,000-yard passing milestone. “Funny…go to patriots.com,” he tells his mother. “They have an article about the 50,000 yard ball…if they only knew
.” The texts talk of the ball, which owner Robert Kraft believed he possessed, possibly funding Jastremski’s honeymoon.Why, if not to embarrass the man and jeopardize his continued employment, did Wells print such extraneous material? The same goes for allegations that the Pats employees sold freebie tickets for profit, solicited shoes from Uggs pitchman Tom Brady, and sought basketball tickets from the celebrities they worked for. How, in even a tangential way, does this relate to whether they purposefully deflated balls prior to the AFC Championship Game? Here, Ted Wells offers no proof relating to the matter at hand but much proof of his desire to attaint the heretofore unknown employees who denied his allegations.
The inclusion of such extraneous material surely makes for a better read. It also validates Brady’s decision not to allow the investigators to rifle through his cell phone and computers.
Wells dubs Brady’s refusal as “not helpful.” To whom? The report claims that the four-time Super Bowl-winning quarterback denied their entreaties “even though those requests were limited to the subject matter of our investigation.” Clearly, the embarrassing immaterial material released from the communications between the far-from-famous Pats equipment handlers makes this statement a farce.
Elsewhere, Wells relies on evidence suggesting the opposite of what he believes “probably” happened as a way to prove his case. Biased investigators embrace this methodology because it enables them to prove anything. Jim McNally suggesting to “blow up the ball to look like a rugby ball,” a “watermelon,” and a “balloon” might have proved to be a smoking gun if Wells charged the equipment guys of overinflating balls. It’s surely relevant in indicating Brady’s frustration with overinflated balls. But when McNally and Jastremski point to referees pressurizing balls to 16 psi—2.5 psi over the limit—the evidence just as easily points to Brady looking for a ball deflated to regulation than to one deflated below it. It may be the case that Brady sought an edge on the rules. But this evidence presented mostly undermines rather than buttresses that thesis.
Buried deep past the executive summary, Wells concedes that “the air pressure of all of the game balls tested at halftime decreased from the levels measured prior to the game.” In other words, Wells affirmed Bill Belichick’s point, ridiculed by Bill Nye “the Science Guy” and others, that the weather naturally deflates balls.
All of the balls—Patriots balls and Colts balls—lost pressure by halftime. Significantly, the 11 Patriot balls showed greater decreases than the four Colt balls tested. More significantly, judging by what the scientists employed by Wells told him, eight of the 11 balls tested at halftime fell within the expected range of pressure drop based on the measurements of at least one of the two NFL officials who gauged the pigskins. This, more than anything else, invalidates the conclusions of the Wells Report. Though Ted Wells theorizes a conspiracy to depressurize balls, measurements by NFL referees on the majority of the Patriots balls read precisely where the scientific firm employed by the investigators said a ball inflated to 12.5 psi–the NFL minimum–would fall to (between 11.52 and 11.32) as a result of game-time conditions.
Since the psi measurements of the two referees varied somewhat, the opposite–that a majority of the balls failed to meet the expected level–is also true. Remarkably, the report chooses to interpret the data exclusively in a manner that suggests malfeasance. “Most of the individual Patriots measurements recorded at halftime, however, were lower than the range predicted by the Ideal Gas Law,” the report reads. But the fact that by at least one or the other referee’s measurement, the air pressure of eight of eleven balls fell to expected levels undermines the verdict of “probably” guilty.
And surely judgments of “probably” guilty deserve a verdict all their own.
Erlich Bachmann: Richard wrote the code, yes, but the inspiration was clear. Let me ask you something. How fast do you think you could jack off every guy in this room? Cause I know how long it would take me. And I could prove it.
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Daryl Zero
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Re: Patriots Guilty of Deflate-Gate
I just think that the media that just quotes from this report without looking at how stupid the conclusions are are making a mistake.
Here are article sort of dissecting the report to varying degrees:
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/05/06/h ... tom-brady/
Here are article sort of dissecting the report to varying degrees:
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/05/06/h ... tom-brady/
Erlich Bachmann: Richard wrote the code, yes, but the inspiration was clear. Let me ask you something. How fast do you think you could jack off every guy in this room? Cause I know how long it would take me. And I could prove it.
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Chicat
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Re: Patriots Guilty of Deflate-Gate
Did you really quote Breitbart in full?
Of the 12 coaches, Rush picked the one whose fans have the deepest passion, the longest memories, the greatest lung capacity and … did I mention deep passion?
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KillerKlown
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Re: Patriots Guilty of Deflate-Gate
People say some of the dumbest things on twitter I've ever heard. That's why I only visit message boards. 
Haters gonna' hate.
2015 Super Bowl Champions!!
Haters gonna' hate.
2015 Super Bowl Champions!!
Mike Luke's burner account.
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Merkin
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Re: Patriots Guilty of Deflate-Gate
NEW YORK (AP) - The NFL suspended Super Bowl MVP Tom Brady for the first four games on Monday for his role in a scheme to deflate footballs used in the AFC title game. The league also fined the Patriots $1 million and took away two draft picks, including next years' first-round choice.
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Daryl Zero
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Re: Patriots Guilty of Deflate-Gate
Imagine if the NFL would have proved that something actually happened. Then they would have really punished the Patriots. 
Erlich Bachmann: Richard wrote the code, yes, but the inspiration was clear. Let me ask you something. How fast do you think you could jack off every guy in this room? Cause I know how long it would take me. And I could prove it.
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Chicat
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Re: Patriots Guilty of Deflate-Gate
Seems harsh for a lot of "probably".
Then again they're a bunch of cheating fucks . . .
Then again they're a bunch of cheating fucks . . .
Of the 12 coaches, Rush picked the one whose fans have the deepest passion, the longest memories, the greatest lung capacity and … did I mention deep passion?
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Chicat
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Re: Patriots Guilty of Deflate-Gate
If only Brady had been caught smoking weed while ordering those balls deflated. Lifetime ban?
Of the 12 coaches, Rush picked the one whose fans have the deepest passion, the longest memories, the greatest lung capacity and … did I mention deep passion?
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Daryl Zero
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Re: Patriots Guilty of Deflate-Gate
I think you mean "cheating cheaters"Chicat wrote:Seems harsh for a lot of "probably".
Then again they're a bunch of cheating fucks . . .
Erlich Bachmann: Richard wrote the code, yes, but the inspiration was clear. Let me ask you something. How fast do you think you could jack off every guy in this room? Cause I know how long it would take me. And I could prove it.
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the real dill
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Chicat
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Re: Patriots Guilty of Deflate-Gate
They should try being less subtle.
Of the 12 coaches, Rush picked the one whose fans have the deepest passion, the longest memories, the greatest lung capacity and … did I mention deep passion?
Re: Patriots Guilty of Deflate-Gate
Confirmed video of knocking out your gf...2 games. Unconfirmed shaky evidence you may have let a few psi out of a ball...4 games.
i was going to put the ua/asu records here...but i forgot what they were.
i'll just go with fuck asu.
i'll just go with fuck asu.
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CalStateTempe
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Re: Patriots Guilty of Deflate-Gate
1) Ted Wells is one of the top litigators in the country. I'm sure he came up with an tight case to prove causality.
2) Boston fan is perpetually insufferable.
2) Boston fan is perpetually insufferable.
Re: Patriots Guilty of Deflate-Gate
Four games won't kill the Pats' season. Tom Brady will return.
This isn't a federal case--just the off-season, and as such apparently conniption-worthy.
This isn't a federal case--just the off-season, and as such apparently conniption-worthy.
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Daryl Zero
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Re: Patriots Guilty of Deflate-Gate
Ted Wells will be a witness, not a lawyer in the case. Big difference. Some of the worst witnesses I have ever seen are lawyers.CalStateTempe wrote:1) Ted Wells is one of the top litigators in the country. I'm sure he came up with an tight case to prove causality.
2) Boston fan is perpetually insufferable.
His report is terrible and even new attorneys could make fun of it. He really went out on a limb on several things.
The problem is that if you get knocked down on part of your credibility, it affects your entire conclusion.
Some of the difference that I may have with other posters is that I am a lawyer so I look at this report from that point of view and I am really scratching my head on this one.
Some expert reports are hard to tear apart because there is jargon and knowledge that make it seem like babble.
This one seemed to be held together with chewing gum.
Its almost as if he knew he didn't have anything and yet he stretched his neck out as far as he could go to support a conclusion.
That makes his media appearance to defend himself even more baffling.
Erlich Bachmann: Richard wrote the code, yes, but the inspiration was clear. Let me ask you something. How fast do you think you could jack off every guy in this room? Cause I know how long it would take me. And I could prove it.
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the real dill
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Daryl Zero
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Re: Patriots Guilty of Deflate-Gate
Pats lawyers need to shut up. Even if that is true it doesn't sound true.
Erlich Bachmann: Richard wrote the code, yes, but the inspiration was clear. Let me ask you something. How fast do you think you could jack off every guy in this room? Cause I know how long it would take me. And I could prove it.
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Chicat
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Re: Patriots Guilty of Deflate-Gate
Patriots taking a page out of the Ravens booklet right now.
But in other news, how many fantasy football team names are being hatched right now? "Dorito Dink Deflators" will be the name of at least 5% of teams next year.
But in other news, how many fantasy football team names are being hatched right now? "Dorito Dink Deflators" will be the name of at least 5% of teams next year.
Of the 12 coaches, Rush picked the one whose fans have the deepest passion, the longest memories, the greatest lung capacity and … did I mention deep passion?
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the real dill
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Re: Patriots Guilty of Deflate-Gate
There is already a Dorito Dink account on Twitter.Chicat wrote:Patriots taking a page out of the Ravens booklet right now.
But in other news, how many fantasy football team names are being hatched right now? "Dorito Dink Deflators" will be the name of at least 5% of teams next year.
Re: Patriots Guilty of Deflate-Gate
Looks like Brady has lawyered up.
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Daryl Zero
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Re: Patriots Guilty of Deflate-Gate
Just to point out, the American Enterprise Institute issued a report which destroyed the Wells Report in terms of scientific analysis. It won't change anyone's mind who condemns Brady based solely upon the texts but it should put to rest any issue that the Wells Report proved anything about whether the Patriots deflated balls.
https://www.aei.org/publication/deflating-deflategate/
https://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/ ... report.pdf
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/re ... story.html
Given the dubious decision for Goodell to hear the appeal when he doesn't hear other appeals, I don't have any hopes that he will do anything more than cut Brady's suspension in half.
https://www.aei.org/publication/deflating-deflategate/
https://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/ ... report.pdf
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/re ... story.html
Given the dubious decision for Goodell to hear the appeal when he doesn't hear other appeals, I don't have any hopes that he will do anything more than cut Brady's suspension in half.
Erlich Bachmann: Richard wrote the code, yes, but the inspiration was clear. Let me ask you something. How fast do you think you could jack off every guy in this room? Cause I know how long it would take me. And I could prove it.
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Daryl Zero
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Re: Patriots Guilty of Deflate-Gate
While Goodell has made every stupid decision in the book on this, I do want to point out that the media was absolutely duped and bought into the whole deflategate stupidity. Now, all of a sudden, there are articles like this:
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/roger-good ... 47603.html
This is truly one of the dumbest scandals in sports history, a molehill the NFL turned into a mountain.
It bears repeating there remains no proof the footballs were even significantly deflated in deflate-gate. For all the curiousness and suspicion from having some Foxborough locker room lackey calling himself "The Deflator" and taking the balls into a bathroom just before kickoff, he may not have even deflated anything.
That should have been obvious to the NFL within a day of the AFC championship game. You'd think the league would have started there.
At halftime of that game, referee Walt Anderson had taken some convoluted measurements that came in with a wide range of data, many of them not particularly out of the norm. That's in part because of natural gas law, in part because this could in no way be considered any place for accurate scientific work and in part because Anderson used separate, and wildly different, gauges to take the data.
At that point the NFL should have realized that this case was a loser. Suspicious district attorneys have to do this all the time and just refuse to prosecute. Even if the league thought the Pats were up to something, generally you have to have some kind of decent evidence.
Had the media scrutinized the story from the beginning and not jumped on headlines, the molehill might have stayed a molehill.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/roger-good ... 47603.html
This is truly one of the dumbest scandals in sports history, a molehill the NFL turned into a mountain.
It bears repeating there remains no proof the footballs were even significantly deflated in deflate-gate. For all the curiousness and suspicion from having some Foxborough locker room lackey calling himself "The Deflator" and taking the balls into a bathroom just before kickoff, he may not have even deflated anything.
That should have been obvious to the NFL within a day of the AFC championship game. You'd think the league would have started there.
At halftime of that game, referee Walt Anderson had taken some convoluted measurements that came in with a wide range of data, many of them not particularly out of the norm. That's in part because of natural gas law, in part because this could in no way be considered any place for accurate scientific work and in part because Anderson used separate, and wildly different, gauges to take the data.
At that point the NFL should have realized that this case was a loser. Suspicious district attorneys have to do this all the time and just refuse to prosecute. Even if the league thought the Pats were up to something, generally you have to have some kind of decent evidence.
Had the media scrutinized the story from the beginning and not jumped on headlines, the molehill might have stayed a molehill.
Erlich Bachmann: Richard wrote the code, yes, but the inspiration was clear. Let me ask you something. How fast do you think you could jack off every guy in this room? Cause I know how long it would take me. And I could prove it.
Re: Patriots Guilty of Deflate-Gate
Patriots are cheaters and Goodell is an idiot. We knew this before deflategate though.
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Daryl Zero
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Re: Patriots Guilty of Deflate-Gate
How can you argue with that airtight logic: The Patriots/Brady are guilty because they are cheaters. Closed case.rgdeuce wrote:Patriots are cheaters and Goodell is an idiot. We knew this before deflategate though.
Erlich Bachmann: Richard wrote the code, yes, but the inspiration was clear. Let me ask you something. How fast do you think you could jack off every guy in this room? Cause I know how long it would take me. And I could prove it.
Re: Patriots Guilty of Deflate-Gate
“The force behind the movement of time is a mourning that will not be comforted.” author Marilynne Robinson
Re: Patriots Guilty of Deflate-Gate
Daryl Zero wrote:How can you argue with that airtight logic: The Patriots/Brady are guilty because they are cheaters. Closed case.rgdeuce wrote:Patriots are cheaters and Goodell is an idiot. We knew this before deflategate though.
Really? I'm not talking in terms of a formal sanction or finding of guilt. Only the court of public opinion. Not too many non-Patriot fans who think that organization is on the up and up. It is what it is. I think Belechik is the greatest football head coach of all time, and I think Brady is the second greatest quarterback of all time behind Montana. But if you play with fire, if you outright cheat or walk the very fine line just next to it, eventually you are going to get burned and I ain't going to feel sorry for you. I got no problem with either of their personalities, but they are smug and arrogant ( I think theyve earned that right), so you also won't have many feeling bad for you. It doesn't diminish what they have done and there shouldn't be any asterisks. I'm a Seahawks fan and I ain't even mad at it, the blame for our loss should be solely on a poor play call/sloppy route/mis-thrown pass (however you want to view it). I think any seahawks fan (and I have seen it, but blame our stupid ass fanbase that seemingly multiplied by 10,000 very recently) who is sour over this is an idiot. They are the team we should have been playing in the super bowl, deflated balls or not.
Re: Patriots Guilty of Deflate-Gate
Peter King's interesting thought this morning:
http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2015/08/09/andr ... ard-knocksMy one question about the NFL’s stance now: In the Wells Report, Brady was found to be “at least generally aware” of the scheme to deflate footballs below the 12.5-psi minimum. The NFL ruled against Brady without a smoking gun, believing the preponderance of evidence was enough.
But in the NFL’s 15-page brief submitted to the judge in advance of Wednesday’s conference, the NFL writes: “The commissioner suspended Brady for having ‘approved of, consented to, and provided inducements in support of’ a scheme to tamper with the game balls. And for having ‘willfully obstructed the subsequent investigation.’ ” Put the obstruction to the side for a moment; maybe you feel if there was obstruction, he should be suspended regardless of the evidence.
But how did we get from being at least generally aware of a scheme to deflate game balls to having “approved of, consented to, and provided inducements” to aid a scheme to deflate footballs?
If there’s more evidence beyond the Wells Report proving that Brady did what the league is claiming—and I don’t think there is—we need to hear that now.
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JMarkJohns
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Re: Patriots Guilty of Deflate-Gate
I believe that's called litigational puffery.Coop Cat wrote:Peter King's interesting thought this morning:
http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2015/08/09/andr ... ard-knocksMy one question about the NFL’s stance now: In the Wells Report, Brady was found to be “at least generally aware” of the scheme to deflate footballs below the 12.5-psi minimum. The NFL ruled against Brady without a smoking gun, believing the preponderance of evidence was enough.
But in the NFL’s 15-page brief submitted to the judge in advance of Wednesday’s conference, the NFL writes: “The commissioner suspended Brady for having ‘approved of, consented to, and provided inducements in support of’ a scheme to tamper with the game balls. And for having ‘willfully obstructed the subsequent investigation.’ ” Put the obstruction to the side for a moment; maybe you feel if there was obstruction, he should be suspended regardless of the evidence.
But how did we get from being at least generally aware of a scheme to deflate game balls to having “approved of, consented to, and provided inducements” to aid a scheme to deflate footballs?
If there’s more evidence beyond the Wells Report proving that Brady did what the league is claiming—and I don’t think there is—we need to hear that now.
The entire case feels like puffery. If they had solid evidence, no coincidental or peripheral, we'd know it. In a lack of evidence, say it, say it loudly, say it often, and say it to its enth degrees to make the little feel like it's overwhelming.
When they have their bluff called, I can't imagine they have the cards to back up their chips.
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Daryl Zero
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Re: Patriots Guilty of Deflate-Gate
This diagram from the AEI sums things up for me:
The first ball for the Patriots was the intercepted ball that the Colts hung on to. I wonder if it was used in the average with the other 11 whether the average of the 12 balls would be right in the expected value of the Ideal Gas Law. Those expected values are also accepted by the Wells Report (page 113 of the Wells Report: the expected value of the Patriots balls under the conditions would be between 11.32 and 11.52 "just before they were brought back into the Officials' Locker Room." Similarly, the Colts' balls expected range was between 11.8 and 12 psi just before.
The first ball for the Patriots was the intercepted ball that the Colts hung on to. I wonder if it was used in the average with the other 11 whether the average of the 12 balls would be right in the expected value of the Ideal Gas Law. Those expected values are also accepted by the Wells Report (page 113 of the Wells Report: the expected value of the Patriots balls under the conditions would be between 11.32 and 11.52 "just before they were brought back into the Officials' Locker Room." Similarly, the Colts' balls expected range was between 11.8 and 12 psi just before.
Erlich Bachmann: Richard wrote the code, yes, but the inspiration was clear. Let me ask you something. How fast do you think you could jack off every guy in this room? Cause I know how long it would take me. And I could prove it.
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Daryl Zero
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Re: Patriots Guilty of Deflate-Gate
Having looked at the Monday Morning Quarterback article, it raises other points that confused me. The NFL has proclaimed that Ted Wells was an independent investigator. Yet at the arbitration hearing, he refused to answer questions claiming attorney-client privilege protected the communications. How can someone who is the NFL's attorney be an independent investigator? The NFL is now talking out of both sides of its mouth claiming that Article 46 (I presume of the CBA) does not require an "independent investigation" in Federal Court. In other words, the NFL is saying that investigation wasn't independent but it doesn't matter.
So either the CBA completely gave up any shot of the trappings of fairness (a fair trial in front of neutral judges) or they basically said the NFL can be judge, jury and prosecutor at the same time. I don't know the law here, but if federal law includes any requirement of due process or fairness in that CBA article, I can't see how Brady (excluding technicalities like late filings or wrong filings) doesn't win this.
So either the CBA completely gave up any shot of the trappings of fairness (a fair trial in front of neutral judges) or they basically said the NFL can be judge, jury and prosecutor at the same time. I don't know the law here, but if federal law includes any requirement of due process or fairness in that CBA article, I can't see how Brady (excluding technicalities like late filings or wrong filings) doesn't win this.
Erlich Bachmann: Richard wrote the code, yes, but the inspiration was clear. Let me ask you something. How fast do you think you could jack off every guy in this room? Cause I know how long it would take me. And I could prove it.
Re: Patriots Guilty of Deflate-Gate
I am rooting for this to completely blow up in the league's face. Fuhrer Goodell needs to be outed before he ruins football even more.
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Daryl Zero
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Re: Patriots Guilty of Deflate-Gate
Website by John M. Dowd (the man who investigated Pete Rose) which skewers the NFL's case against Brady:
http://www.deflategatefacts.com/about-1/
Many claims have been made concerning purported ball tampering by the New England Patriots and quarterback Tom Brady during the 2015 AFC Championship Game. Those claims fall apart under any serious scrutiny.
The NFL started by pushing false information to the media and then oversaw an incomplete investigation that resulted in Tom Brady’s unfair, four-game suspension.
As it became increasingly clear that the public was losing faith in the investigation’s integrity, the NFL decided to ambush Brady by repeatedly telling him he didn’t need to produce his cellphone, then faulting him for failing to produce it—a blatant attempt to railroad Brady on falsely-concocted charges of “noncooperation.”
Dowd's Blog section piece by piece destroys the NFL's current legal arguments:
http://www.deflategatefacts.com/blog/
http://www.deflategatefacts.com/about-1/
Many claims have been made concerning purported ball tampering by the New England Patriots and quarterback Tom Brady during the 2015 AFC Championship Game. Those claims fall apart under any serious scrutiny.
The NFL started by pushing false information to the media and then oversaw an incomplete investigation that resulted in Tom Brady’s unfair, four-game suspension.
As it became increasingly clear that the public was losing faith in the investigation’s integrity, the NFL decided to ambush Brady by repeatedly telling him he didn’t need to produce his cellphone, then faulting him for failing to produce it—a blatant attempt to railroad Brady on falsely-concocted charges of “noncooperation.”
Dowd's Blog section piece by piece destroys the NFL's current legal arguments:
http://www.deflategatefacts.com/blog/
Erlich Bachmann: Richard wrote the code, yes, but the inspiration was clear. Let me ask you something. How fast do you think you could jack off every guy in this room? Cause I know how long it would take me. And I could prove it.
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UAEebs86
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Re: Patriots Guilty of Deflate-Gate
We are the people our parents warned us about.
-JB
2022 Survival Pool Co-Champion
-JB
2022 Survival Pool Co-Champion
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Daryl Zero
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Re: Patriots Guilty of Deflate-Gate
Brady looks deflated.UAEebs86 wrote:
Erlich Bachmann: Richard wrote the code, yes, but the inspiration was clear. Let me ask you something. How fast do you think you could jack off every guy in this room? Cause I know how long it would take me. And I could prove it.
Re: Patriots Guilty of Deflate-Gate
Lol. That is all.
Love the 've! Stop with the: Would of - Could of - Should of - Must of - Might of
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Alieberman
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Re: Patriots Guilty of Deflate-Gate
Roger Goodell has to be fired soon, right?