Bear Down Wildcats

azcat49 wrote:If Miller could keep his players for three years like Lute he would have multiple FF’s at this point.

Or how about like Bill Self or Jay Wright or Tom Izzo or Tony Bennett or Mark Few, et al.? All these coaches keep key players for multiple seasons and you see this reflected in their tourney success in recent years. Recruiting is a strange game. It's like: it's hard not to recruit a Nico Mannion or a Deandre Ayton, but you also have to be willing to accept the negative impact that OADs can have on a program. The constant roster turnover rarely produces a FF or national title.

I do think it’s fair to criticize his roster management but the guy can coach and he develops the guys he has

I agree. He recruits a bunch of top notch guys that believe that OAN is their destiny. This reminds me of a Lute rule. It is not making the NBA that should be the goal but staying. Some guys that leave after their freshman year may get drafted but will be either out of the league or a journeyman making the minimums for their 2nd contract. I think that is especially true this year.

On another note. How excited are you on Koloko's potential. I can see him as a 245 lb shot blocker as a junior. He is a big man. Needs more strength around the basket but that will come. I hope he continues to work hard.

TheCat wrote: On another note. How excited are you on Koloko's potential. I can see him as a 245 lb shot blocker as a junior. He is a big man. Needs more strength around the basket but that will come. I hope he continues to work hard.

You should be an NBA scout

Can you just move on from Arizona while you're at it?

AZCatGirl wrote:

Can you just move on from Arizona while you're at it?

I’m ready to move on from the Miller era.

AZCatGirl wrote:

Can you just move on from Arizona while you're at it?

So unprofessional. I've always thought Miller was kind of a jerk and this confirms it. Act like a baby in the face of adversity. Can't win the big one so have a temper tantrum. It's time for him to go. Past time actually.

AZCatGirl wrote:

Can you just move on from Arizona while you're at it?

lmfao
how about you send the medical guy over to him and check him out there coach?

Wow what a fucking dick.

He said that?

Fuck Miller.

Send his ass back to the hills of Pittsburgh.

He can go be an east coast tough guy for some midmajor team where he’s better suited.

I am thankful that I dont need any of you in real life. How you all bitch and complain whenever adversity hits.

PHXCATS wrote:I am thankful that I dont need any of you in real life. How you all bitch and complain whenever adversity hits.

What's sad is our team handles adversity worse.

If Miller acts this way *in front* of the camera, imagine what it's like in that locker room.

I still haven't heard anything to indicate any chance he could actually be fired after this season, but maybe we're heading in that direction?

Beachcat97 wrote:If Miller acts this way *in front* of the camera, imagine what it's like in that locker room.

I still haven't heard anything to indicate any chance he could actually be fired after this season, but maybe we're heading in that direction?

So fucking stupid. Fire him because he drew up a great play but Green unfortunately landed awkwardly and hit his head?

That’s a bad look. U have to have a doc come w the quick concussion protocol there, he clearly hit his head hard after that drive.

U can’t leave it up to the player, even kids who aren’t invested in the program (like some of ours) are competitive enough to say they can go hit a FT.

Also the subs at the end were horrible. I like Kolokos potential but you can’t have him in over Nnaji in crunch time. The kid rotated late and instead of blocking out came late for a weak side block handing a putback/ assist to weak side each time. And he hasn’t played enough minutes or been groomed to step in crunch time during biggest conference game of year , what do you expect for him in that spot. Nnaji can’t come out of the game w no timeouts, just can’t.

I can’t blame Miller for 0-4 and 10-21, but he is to blame for circumstances around that. Also i hate to bang on the kid, but I’m starting to think Mannion ain’t it.

Watch the press conference yourself...I just did. The tweets about it weren’t completely quoted correctly- and the tone was misrepresented. He looked miserable and frustrated- like we all are right now. What else does everyone expect him to say? He took responsibility for not closing out tough games with a win, said where the errors were (rebounds at the end and FTs), and complimented Pritchard.
I was there - we fought like crazy- just made small mistakes a young team is going to make. Unlike the UCLA game- we played with pride, and although I’m disappointed- I’m not mad. This was a great game of college basketball- we just weren’t on the winning end of it this time.

ralmom22 wrote:Watch the press conference yourself...I just did. The tweets about it weren’t completely quoted correctly- and the tone was misrepresented. He looked miserable and frustrated- like we all are right now. What else does everyone expect him to say? He took responsibility for not closing out tough games with a win, said where the errors were (rebounds at the end and FTs), and complimented Pritchard.
I was there - we fought like crazy- just made small mistakes a young team is going to make. Unlike the UCLA game- we played with pride, and although I’m disappointed- I’m not mad. This was a great game of college basketball- we just weren’t on the winning end of it this time.

We never are anymore , that’s the issue. It’s a pattern not variance anymore.

Otherwise i agree with everything you said.

I’m confused by all the Miller detractors and why they’re even watching. You judge Miller by his success ( or lack it with no Final Fours) by the NCAA Tournament. That’s next month. It’s February. Why are you even watching? Are you suddenly upset that Arizona isn’t going to win the conference? I thought conference titles didn’t matter? Miller’s 5 conference championships mean nothing. Only Final Fours matter and Miller hasn’t delivered in ten years so he sucks. That’s the criticism I’ve read here for the last several years.

zonagrad wrote:I’m confused by all the Miller detractors and why they’re even watching. You judge Miller by his success ( or lack it with no Final Fours) by the NCAA Tournament. That’s next month. It’s February. Why are you even watching? Are you suddenly upset that Arizona isn’t going to win the conference? I thought conference titles didn’t matter? Miller’s 5 conference championships mean nothing. Only Final Fours matter and Miller hasn’t delivered in ten years so he sucks. That’s the criticism I’ve read here for the last several years.

I especially love the people who dont go to games or even watch games bitching about them

ralmom22 wrote:Watch the press conference yourself...I just did.

The tweets about it weren’t completely quoted correctly- and the tone was misrepresented.

He looked miserable and frustrated- like we all are right now. What else does everyone expect him to say? He took responsibility for not closing out tough games with a win, said where the errors were (rebounds at the end and FTs), and complimented Pritchard.
I was there - we fought like crazy- just made small mistakes a young team is going to make. Unlike the UCLA game- we played with pride, and although I’m disappointed- I’m not mad. This was a great game of college basketball- we just weren’t on the winning end of it this time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oXQ-Ra5u2w" target="_blank

Spot on about the tweet. Watch for yourself.

My current biggest beef with Miller is the answer to this question: Who is afraid to play in McKale Center any more? Our 3 biggest basketball rivals all came to McKale this year and each one beat us. They had zero fear whatsoever to play us on our turf. If anything Arizona has been more timid and afraid playing big games in front of their own damn crowd than other teams are. It's certainly not the McKale crowd's fault, they were on point last night. It's become a damn joke and that may be the saddest part of the Miller tenure than anything else honestly and there's a lot to be sad about or at least apathetic.

I would trade Miller for Altman in a heartbeat.

I think Miller is a great, great coach. I just still get the feeling that we need a change. And that could mean we take a step back as a program.

OTH.. maybe we need to hit rock bottom before a change.

Bordercat wrote:I would trade Miller for Altman in a heartbeat.

Big fan of guys who cover for rapists?

Captain Obvious wrote:

AZCatGirl wrote:

Can you just move on from Arizona while you're at it?

So unprofessional. I've always thought Miller was kind of a jerk and this confirms it. Act like a baby in the face of adversity. Can't win the big one so have a temper tantrum. It's time for him to go. Past time actually.

Yes crumpling a box score shouldd be grounds for dismissal as well as being upset by an overtime loss when you had two chances to win. Time for you to go Captain Obvious. You need your drool cup changed. I personally thought it took a career performance under some duress by a great player to beat the Cats in a game they had at least two chance if not more to win. It was a great college game.

ChooChooCat wrote:My current biggest beef with Miller is the answer to this question: Who is afraid to play in McKale Center any more? Our 3 biggest basketball rivals all came to McKale this year and each one beat us. They had zero fear whatsoever to play us on our turf. If anything Arizona has been more timid and afraid playing big games in front of their own damn crowd than other teams are. It's certainly not the McKale crowd's fault, they were on point last night. It's become a damn joke and that may be the saddest part of the Miller tenure than anything else honestly and there's a lot to be sad about or at least apathetic.

Oh man. Choo, this is painfully true.

It also used to be exceedingly rare that we’d drop a game at McKale late in the season with so much on the line. Former AZ players must be disgusted and disappointed. The pride is gone. And more crushingly, the fear among our opponents is gone. Going into McKale and winning one is very doable these days.

Gonzaga is the class of the West and Oregon is class of the Pac 12.

It's fucking depressing how far we've fallen.

Beachcat97 wrote:If Miller acts this way *in front* of the camera, imagine what it's like in that locker room.

I still haven't heard anything to indicate any chance he could actually be fired after this season, but maybe we're heading in that direction?

Yes we want a coach that doesn't get angry or disappointed in losses. We want one that says Oregon was playing at a magically level.

AZCatGirl wrote:Gonzaga is the class of the West and Oregon is class of the Pac 12.

It's fucking depressing how far we've fallen.

That would be in second place tied with Oregon?

AZCatGirl wrote:Gonzaga is the class of the West and Oregon is class of the Pac 12.

It's fucking depressing how far we've fallen.

This is undeniable.

The next AZ coach - whenever it happens - will have the challenge of bringing us back. Knocking Gonzaga and Oregon off the mountain top.

Beachcat97 wrote:

AZCatGirl wrote:Gonzaga is the class of the West and Oregon is class of the Pac 12.

It's fucking depressing how far we've fallen.

This is undeniable.

The next AZ coach - whenever it happens - will have the challenge of bringing us back. Knocking Gonzaga and Oregon off the mountain top.

Maybe we should hire Mike pope

Yes take us from second place to first......bring us back from the brink and put us on the mountaintop with ASU (they are the mountaintop not Oregon right now). It is undeniable you have no perspective on the history of college basketball.

Do you know how many times coach K loss less than 5 games in conference in his first 10 years? The answer is once. You know how many times he lost 6 or more in conference his first 10 years? The answer is 5. I will had that they only played 14 games in conference then. He had a 54% winning average and now he is considered the guru of modern coaching. You would have fired Wooden twice is you were holding him to the same standards as you do today.

Beachcat97 wrote:

AZCatGirl wrote:Gonzaga is the class of the West and Oregon is class of the Pac 12.

It's fucking depressing how far we've fallen.

This is undeniable.

The next AZ coach - whenever it happens - will have the challenge of bringing us back. Knocking Gonzaga and Oregon off the mountain top.

And at present I would add San Diego State. The decline has been steady and painful. Just don't see a resurgence taking place under Miller. Be not deceived, Altman's ownage of Miller is no accident and not just because of a few missed free throws. Once again it's a pattern just like Millers pattern of doing less with more and losing in close games. For a coach that predicates his coaching philosophy on defense it's very discouraging that a player the caliber of Pritchard could come in and have a career scoring night on our home court. He's a great player but that's just not acceptable.

TheCat wrote:Yes take us from second place to first......bring us back from the brink and put us on the mountaintop with ASU (they are the mountaintop not Oregon right now). It is undeniable you have no perspective on the history of college basketball.

Do you know how many times coach K loss less than 5 games in conference in his first 10 years? The answer is once. You know how many times he lost 6 or more in conference his first 10 years? The answer is 5. I will had that they only played 14 games in conference then. He had a 54% winning average and now he is considered the guru of modern coaching. You would have fired Wooden twice is you were holding him to the same standards as you do today.

I mean that's great and all, but Sean Miller is in year 11. What do Coach K's first 10 years coaching at Duke have to do with a guy who is already past that same point at Arizona? I also didn't know people's sole issue with Sean Miller was conference wins? In Coach K's first 10 years at Duke he had taken them to the Final Four 4 times. In his 11th year he won the national championship. Real comparable to Sean Miller at Arizona isn't it?

U.P. Zona Fan wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:

AZCatGirl wrote:Gonzaga is the class of the West and Oregon is class of the Pac 12.

It's fucking depressing how far we've fallen.

This is undeniable.

The next AZ coach - whenever it happens - will have the challenge of bringing us back. Knocking Gonzaga and Oregon off the mountain top.

Maybe we should hire Mike pope

I think you mean Mark Pope at BYU correct? Well they beat Gonzaga last night so why not. I mean he had a 34-24 conference record at Utah Valley that juggernaut. Hell he is 3/4 of year through at BYU and just beat the Zags so he must be good enough to coach here. That is like someone saying Scott Drew should be hired because his team was ranked 1st until yesterday. Wait someone did say that....lol.

That deflated offense in the last 3 minutes of regulation was all on him. When he did that, I fully expected Oregon to tie.

ChooChooCat wrote:

TheCat wrote:Yes take us from second place to first......bring us back from the brink and put us on the mountaintop with ASU (they are the mountaintop not Oregon right now). It is undeniable you have no perspective on the history of college basketball.

Do you know how many times coach K loss less than 5 games in conference in his first 10 years? The answer is once. You know how many times he lost 6 or more in conference his first 10 years? The answer is 5. I will had that they only played 14 games in conference then. He had a 54% winning average and now he is considered the guru of modern coaching. You would have fired Wooden twice is you were holding him to the same standards as you do today.

I mean that's great and all, but Sean Miller is in year 11. What do Coach K's first 10 years coaching at Duke have to do with a guy who is already past that same point at Arizona? I also didn't know people's sole issue with Sean Miller was conference wins? In Coach K's first 10 years at Duke he had taken them to the Final Four 4 times. In his 11th year he won the national championship. Real comparable to Sean Miller at Arizona isn't it?

So I have repeatedly ask you and other for their candidates. I got two names. Scott Drew and Mike Pope whomever that is (think he meant Mark). Just give me a name that will win the news conference and lead us beyond the 3rd best record in the history of the PAC. Tell me Donovan and I'm all in. Tell me Izzo is tired of Mich State because his coaching buddy left and he hates twitter and message boards and I'm all for it. I am convinced that Sean Miller is an up and coming coach that has done great things at Arizona. Are there better coaches, better roster mgmt guys, probably but does Arizona have a shot with any? I am convinced that Sean brought in a recruiting class this last year that no one could have bettered under the situation we were in. It will add to the roster mgmt problems next year but should I tell him to bring in lessor players so the roster three years from now is better? Tell him not to go for top flight recruits? He needed to demonstrate that Ariz is still a viable/desirable location for recruits. Regardless of Nico's mistakes I will always be grateful to him for being the first to signup.
Everyone gets disappointed. No more so than me. But it took a career night by a four year player to beat the Cats (along with 4 missed free throws). I want a coach that takes it personal when he loses. One that sees what was the cause of failure and tries to address it. Last night two freshman faced the reality of pressure in big time college basketball and failed. They will grow from that. One thing I think coach Miller needs to be better at is letting folks out of the penalty box......I think Chase Jeter might have helped last night but I have no idea if his back is bothering him still. I will just tell folks to be careful what they wish for because they might get it.

WildcatStunner wrote:That deflated offense in the last 3 minutes of regulation was all on him. When he did that, I fully expected Oregon to tie.

You obviously were not at the game when he was encouraging /imploring his team to speed it up, to attack, to get the ball into Zeke. Not sure what they showed on TV but if you were close enough you could hear him REPEATEDLY tell them to move. I'm not sure if it was fatigue or subbing for defense to offense but they were slow to act. He was not saying slow it down.

TheCat wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:

TheCat wrote:Yes take us from second place to first......bring us back from the brink and put us on the mountaintop with ASU (they are the mountaintop not Oregon right now). It is undeniable you have no perspective on the history of college basketball.

Do you know how many times coach K loss less than 5 games in conference in his first 10 years? The answer is once. You know how many times he lost 6 or more in conference his first 10 years? The answer is 5. I will had that they only played 14 games in conference then. He had a 54% winning average and now he is considered the guru of modern coaching. You would have fired Wooden twice is you were holding him to the same standards as you do today.

I mean that's great and all, but Sean Miller is in year 11. What do Coach K's first 10 years coaching at Duke have to do with a guy who is already past that same point at Arizona? I also didn't know people's sole issue with Sean Miller was conference wins? In Coach K's first 10 years at Duke he had taken them to the Final Four 4 times. In his 11th year he won the national championship. Real comparable to Sean Miller at Arizona isn't it?

So I have repeatedly ask you and other for their candidates. I got two names. Scott Drew and Mike Pope whomever that is (think he meant Mark). Just give me a name that will win the news conference and lead us beyond the 3rd best record in the history of the PAC. Tell me Donovan and I'm all in. Tell me Izzo is tired of Mich State because his coaching buddy left and he hates twitter and message boards and I'm all for it. I am convinced that Sean Miller is an up and coming coach that has done great things at Arizona. Are there better coaches, better roster mgmt guys, probably but does Arizona have a shot with any? I am convinced that Sean brought in a recruiting class this last year that no one could have bettered under the situation we were in. It will add to the roster mgmt problems next year but should I tell him to bring in lessor players so the roster three years from now is better? Tell him not to go for top flight recruits? He needed to demonstrate that Ariz is still a viable/desirable location for recruits. Regardless of Nico's mistakes I will always be grateful to him for being the first to signup.
Everyone gets disappointed. No more so than me. But it took a career night by a four year player to beat the Cats (along with 4 missed free throws). I want a coach that takes it personal when he loses. One that sees what was the cause of failure and tries to address it. Last night two freshman faced the reality of pressure in big time college basketball and failed. They will grow from that. One thing I think coach Miller needs to be better at is letting folks out of the penalty box......I think Chase Jeter might have helped last night but I have no idea if his back is bothering him still. I will just tell folks to be careful what they wish for because they might get it.

I've said Randy Bennett for a good while now, he's my guy. There are other options as well, Kevin Willard, Chris Jans, Wojo from Marquette if you love high level recruiting, Craig Smith, Greg McDermott, Anthony Grant, Brian Dutcher. I mean I'm just naming coaches off the top of my head who would want the Arizona job and are currently winning. Some other good options may come up at the tournament. I couldn't give two shits less about winning the press conference. Dana Altman didn't win the press conference for Oregon. Sean Miller only won the press conference because we had struck out 1000 times before him and were a hair away from hiring Tim Floyd and then Jim Boylen. Give me a coach who's motivated, can build a roster, and can get his guys to buy in. Sean Miller has literally had a world of trouble doing 2 of those 3 things for years now.

I don’t dislike Sean Miller. He’s a good guy and a hard worker.

I just seriously doubt he’s going to deliver the results we want. After a decade, we’re now in a position to say this.

Beachcat97 wrote:I don’t dislike Sean Miller. He’s a good guy and a hard worker.

I just seriously doubt he’s going to deliver the results we want. After a decade, we’re now in a position to say this.

This is pretty much what it boils down to for certain universities. Is he going to win you a national championship? If no, then it doesn't matter how he recruits or how many regular season conference championships he wins.

Bruins01 wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:I don’t dislike Sean Miller. He’s a good guy and a hard worker.

I just seriously doubt he’s going to deliver the results we want. After a decade, we’re now in a position to say this.

This is pretty much what it boils down to for certain universities. Is he going to win you a national championship? If no, then it doesn't matter how he recruits or how many regular season conference championships he wins.

Lol at the UCLA fans coming out of deep hibernation.

Bruins01...there’s a blast from the past.

I’m ready to move on from Miller. But the people who actually decide this remain in his corner. That’s probably good news for a UCLA fan.

I have to sreiously LOL at anyone who lays this loss on Miller. This loss is entirely on the players, who failed at the easiest part of the game -- free throws. That game should never have even gone into overtime. And when it did go into overtime, we never should have lost. Players just choked away the game, both in regulation and in overtime. A total lack of concentration when they got to the line.

I am confident Miller will break through. Just not sure if he will be able to with this seemingly soft team.

BBQ wildcat wrote:I have to sreiously LOL at anyone who lays this loss on Miller. This loss is entirely on the players, who failed at the easiest part of the game -- free throws. That game should never have even gone into overtime. And when it did go into overtime, we never should have lost. Players just choked away the game, both in regulation and in overtime. A total lack of concentration when they got to the line.

I am confident Miller will break through. Just not sure if he will be able to with this seemingly soft team.

Miller will break through. I just don’t think it will be at Arizona. I stand by the fact he will be able to succeed when the NBA begins to allow high schoolers in the draft and he can attract the next tier of talent that must stick around 2-3 years. I don’t think he has the luxury of 5-6 years more years at Arizona to see my belief come true.

There is nothing I've seen to suggest that Sean Miller can put together a functional roster, with zero one and dones or not, that he will ever break through at Arizona. There's no learning from your mistakes, there's no changing approaches, there's only do what we do. The man is every bit as much obsessed with filling holes with bandaids as he is with not being patient and developing players.

Izzo, Calipari, Jay Wright, Few, Chris Beard, Self, Altman, John Beilein, Donovan, Brad Stevens, Kerr, Bruce Pearl, Gregg Marshall, Tony Bennett. My maybe list would include Wojciechowski, Huggins, Scott Drew, Kelvin Sampson, Chris Mack and Pitino .

I still think some time away from the game would do Miller a world of good. The man needs a break because the last few years have been hell on him.

I don't hate Miller either, but things have been off with the team the past few years, and I just don't see him breaking through at Arizona anymore.

AZCatGirl wrote:I still think some time away from the game would do Miller a world of good. The man needs a break because the last few years have been hell on him.

I don't hate Miller either, but things have been off with the team the past few years, and I just don't see him breaking through at Arizona anymore.

There are my feelings as well.

I don't see any way a coach can pull an NBA bound guy with a chance to win the game with 2 FTs. That's the sort of thing that we talk about hurting recruiting. And no, can't send the trainer out to check him, that will automatically remove him, this happened in USC-Colo a couple weeks ago. That's 100% on Josh making the proper decision and he did not do so.

I'm really tired of this team's failure to execute late. I've been at both games vs Oregon this year, and the players gave away both games at end.

It's a fool's errand to argue causation in the outcome of worldly events. We do it because as fans we want to fix things. But it's never about fixing or changing one thing.

Miller should be better at growing as a coach. Pac-12 refs should undergo a species change. Players should be more patient and dedicated to institutions. Market support of sports should be more about sport and less about making money. Fans should remember what true human tragedy is as opposed to marking up the simple affectations of tribal pride, and calling it meaningful. Everyone on the planet should lay down their head each night knowing that Duke Sucks.

prh wrote:I don't see any way a coach can pull an NBA bound guy with a chance to win the game with 2 FTs. That's the sort of thing that we talk about hurting recruiting. And no, can't send the trainer out to check him, that will automatically remove him, this happened in USC-Colo a couple weeks ago. That's 100% on Josh making the proper decision and he did not do so.

I'm really tired of this team's failure to execute late. I've been at both games vs Oregon this year, and the players gave away both games at end.

A lot of this is simply youth and experience. Our best players aren’t battle tested enough to carry that leadership role. Pritchard certainly wasn’t that guy three years ago. He is now. And under a normal progression, Mannion & Green would be those guys in another year or two.

prh wrote:I don't see any way a coach can pull an NBA bound guy with a chance to win the game with 2 FTs. That's the sort of thing that we talk about hurting recruiting. And no, can't send the trainer out to check him, that will automatically remove him, this happened in USC-Colo a couple weeks ago. That's 100% on Josh making the proper decision and he did not do so.

I'm really tired of this team's failure to execute late. I've been at both games vs Oregon this year, and the players gave away both games at end.

Exactly. To a T, and I don’t blame Miller’s decisions last night at all. He needs different players, and that’s where his accountability mainly resides.