Bear Down Wildcats

That and/or have some soft skills red flags that the other schools pass on.

CalStateTempe wrote:That and/or have some soft skills red flags that the other schools pass on.

I can’t imagine any program in the country passing on our three freshmen knowing they were OAD. Ok, like maybe Duke or Oregon, who had veteran point guards. But if a program had an opportunity for a freshman star to come in and start, they would all take Nico, Zeke and Josh. Miller hit the lottery with them. The problem was he had practically zero depth behind them. The fact that Dylan Smith played such a significant role should tell you everything about how bare the cupboard was following the 2019 season.

zonagrad wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:That and/or have some soft skills red flags that the other schools pass on.

I can’t imagine any program in the country passing on our three freshmen knowing they were OAD. Ok, like maybe Duke or Oregon, who had veteran point guards. But if a program had an opportunity for a freshman star to come in and start, they would all take Nico, Zeke and Josh. Miller hit the lottery with them. The problem was he had practically zero depth behind them. The fact that Dylan Smith played such a significant role should tell you everything about how bare the cupboard was following the 2019 season.

Losing Doutrive and BWill hurt like a motherfucker.

Chicat wrote:

zonagrad wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:That and/or have some soft skills red flags that the other schools pass on.

I can’t imagine any program in the country passing on our three freshmen knowing they were OAD. Ok, like maybe Duke or Oregon, who had veteran point guards. But if a program had an opportunity for a freshman star to come in and start, they would all take Nico, Zeke and Josh. Miller hit the lottery with them. The problem was he had practically zero depth behind them. The fact that Dylan Smith played such a significant role should tell you everything about how bare the cupboard was following the 2019 season.

Losing Doutrive and BWill hurt like a motherfucker.

So much. Having a guy like Zeke breakout and over perform like he did should be the kind of thing that puts a program like Arizona (at least used to be) into NC consideration.

A sane Doutrive and healthy BWill could have really taken a lot of pressure off Mannion. We will never know how much, and some of that falls on CSM. He is the man in charge.

For me Zeke and Ayton leave me with such a feeling of opportunity wasted. I think that is a big part of what leaves me feeling less supportive of Miller.

Oil prices just went negative. I didn’t know where to post this on the hoops board but doesn’t One of our top donors (and this Miller’s stock options) have a huge stake in oil refineries? I wonder how this oil this is impacting athletic programs with donors big in the oil industry, Oklahoma, UT, etc...

zonagrad wrote:Oil prices just went negative. I didn’t know where to post this on the hoops board but doesn’t One of our top donors (and this Miller’s stock options) have a huge stake in oil refineries? I wonder how this oil this is impacting athletic programs with donors big in the oil industry, Oklahoma, UT, etc...

I looked at his stock a couple days ago. Even before this, it had gotten so worthless it stopped trading a couple months ago.

Miller's contract state that if he gets indicted on any criminal charges, or NCAA violations, he has to pay a $1M fine to the UA out of his oil money, which isn't even worth that now.


https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/ ... e/9688407/" target="_blank

According to Arizona Board of Regents documents, a "major university benefactor" has offered to donate 500,000 units of a Master Limited Partnership (MLP) to the University of Arizona Foundation for the purposes of supporting the university, as well as keeping Miller, Rodriguez and Byrne in Tucson.

According to the documents, as of May 12, each MLP unit was valued at $35.36 for a total donation value of approximately $17.68 million. The units would be managed by Barclay's for eight years, during which time quarterly distributions of net income on 450,000 units would be distributed for athletics operational purposes. 50,000 units would be held for non-athletics purposes, with quarterly distributions to be used at the university president's discretion.

If Miller is still employed as UA basketball coach in eight years, he would receive a distribution of 175,000 units or may opt to have the units sold and receive the cash derived from the sale. If Miller is terminated without cause before the end of the eight-year period, he would receive a pro-rated share of the unit value through the first four years.


https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/c ... story.html" target="_blank

Though the name of the donor (and the MLP) is redacted from public records, details in the documents point to one company: Western Refining Logistics LP, whose one-time president and CEO Jeff Stevens is a major Wildcats booster. He has previously declined to comment.

Western Refining was sold in August to Andeavor Logistics LP in an all-stock deal, with 1 share of Western Refining translating to .5233 shares of Andeavor. The bonus calculations are based on the assumption that the Western Refining shares in Rodriguez's contract were turned into the commensurate number of Andeavor shares.

Good stuff. Thanks for posting. Looks like Miller’s portfolio took a huge hit.

Merkin wrote:

zonagrad wrote:Oil prices just went negative. I didn’t know where to post this on the hoops board but doesn’t One of our top donors (and this Miller’s stock options) have a huge stake in oil refineries? I wonder how this oil this is impacting athletic programs with donors big in the oil industry, Oklahoma, UT, etc...

I looked at his stock a couple days ago. Even before this, it had gotten so worthless it stopped trading a couple months ago.

Miller's contract state that if he gets indicted on any criminal charges, or NCAA violations, he has to pay a $1M fine to the UA out of his oil money, which isn't even worth that now.


https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/ ... e/9688407/" target="_blank

According to Arizona Board of Regents documents, a "major university benefactor" has offered to donate 500,000 units of a Master Limited Partnership (MLP) to the University of Arizona Foundation for the purposes of supporting the university, as well as keeping Miller, Rodriguez and Byrne in Tucson.

According to the documents, as of May 12, each MLP unit was valued at $35.36 for a total donation value of approximately $17.68 million. The units would be managed by Barclay's for eight years, during which time quarterly distributions of net income on 450,000 units would be distributed for athletics operational purposes. 50,000 units would be held for non-athletics purposes, with quarterly distributions to be used at the university president's discretion.

If Miller is still employed as UA basketball coach in eight years, he would receive a distribution of 175,000 units or may opt to have the units sold and receive the cash derived from the sale. If Miller is terminated without cause before the end of the eight-year period, he would receive a pro-rated share of the unit value through the first four years.


https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/c ... story.html" target="_blank

Though the name of the donor (and the MLP) is redacted from public records, details in the documents point to one company: Western Refining Logistics LP, whose one-time president and CEO Jeff Stevens is a major Wildcats booster. He has previously declined to comment.

Western Refining was sold in August to Andeavor Logistics LP in an all-stock deal, with 1 share of Western Refining translating to .5233 shares of Andeavor. The bonus calculations are based on the assumption that the Western Refining shares in Rodriguez's contract were turned into the commensurate number of Andeavor shares.

I though Andeavor was acquired, which may be why you're not seeing their stock trading independently anymore.

legallykenny wrote:

Merkin wrote:

zonagrad wrote:Oil prices just went negative. I didn’t know where to post this on the hoops board but doesn’t One of our top donors (and this Miller’s stock options) have a huge stake in oil refineries? I wonder how this oil this is impacting athletic programs with donors big in the oil industry, Oklahoma, UT, etc...

I looked at his stock a couple days ago. Even before this, it had gotten so worthless it stopped trading a couple months ago.

Miller's contract state that if he gets indicted on any criminal charges, or NCAA violations, he has to pay a $1M fine to the UA out of his oil money, which isn't even worth that now.


https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/ ... e/9688407/" target="_blank

According to Arizona Board of Regents documents, a "major university benefactor" has offered to donate 500,000 units of a Master Limited Partnership (MLP) to the University of Arizona Foundation for the purposes of supporting the university, as well as keeping Miller, Rodriguez and Byrne in Tucson.

According to the documents, as of May 12, each MLP unit was valued at $35.36 for a total donation value of approximately $17.68 million. The units would be managed by Barclay's for eight years, during which time quarterly distributions of net income on 450,000 units would be distributed for athletics operational purposes. 50,000 units would be held for non-athletics purposes, with quarterly distributions to be used at the university president's discretion.

If Miller is still employed as UA basketball coach in eight years, he would receive a distribution of 175,000 units or may opt to have the units sold and receive the cash derived from the sale. If Miller is terminated without cause before the end of the eight-year period, he would receive a pro-rated share of the unit value through the first four years.


https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/c ... story.html" target="_blank

Though the name of the donor (and the MLP) is redacted from public records, details in the documents point to one company: Western Refining Logistics LP, whose one-time president and CEO Jeff Stevens is a major Wildcats booster. He has previously declined to comment.

Western Refining was sold in August to Andeavor Logistics LP in an all-stock deal, with 1 share of Western Refining translating to .5233 shares of Andeavor. The bonus calculations are based on the assumption that the Western Refining shares in Rodriguez's contract were turned into the commensurate number of Andeavor shares.

I though Andeavor was acquired, which may be why you're not seeing their stock trading independently anymore.

Ah yes, you are correct.

MPLX LP Announces Agreement to Acquire Andeavor Logistics LP

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 46153.html" target="_blank


Market Summary > MPLX LP
NYSE: MPLX
17.00 USD +1.81 (11.92%)

Great and exciting interview. Just really like our coach

About President Bobby Robbins ("Ricky Bobby") and why Sean Miller will probably be volunteering more than 20% of his salary back to the U of A in the end:

https://medium.com/@iwannagofast/why-im ... 3b4818f36f" target="_blank

Longhorned wrote:About President Bobby Robbins ("Ricky Bobby") and why Sean Miller will probably be volunteering more than 20% of his salary back to the U of A in the end:

https://medium.com/@iwannagofast/why-im ... 3b4818f36f" target="_blank

It's funny... My wife shared that with me yesterday... and I thought you might have written it!

Alieberman wrote:

Longhorned wrote:About President Bobby Robbins ("Ricky Bobby") and why Sean Miller will probably be volunteering more than 20% of his salary back to the U of A in the end:

https://medium.com/@iwannagofast/why-im ... 3b4818f36f" target="_blank

It's funny... My wife shared that with me yesterday... and I thought you might have written it!

I didn't even see until this morning, so I doubt I wrote it! It's by Ricky Bobby!

84Cat wrote:

84, thanks for posting this. Good to see UOA basketball coach updates.

Interesting that Miller revealed the decision to make a philosophical change in recruiting happened over a year ago. Things take time. Recruiting takes time. But the sledgehammer of the FBI investigation and ESPN stories knocked us back. Miller’s most recent efforts are pretty impressive and reinforces my faith in him at the helm.

PHXCATS wrote:

Sorry, that page doesn’t exist!


This one?

Merkin wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:

Sorry, that page doesn’t exist!


This one?

Yes thanks. That was what I tried to post

Anyone else find him- or herself defending Miller a lot of the time? So many of my UofA friends think Miller is unequivocally dirty and ought to be fired immediately. It’s irritating.

I don't think Miller needs to potentially leave because of anything from this scandal...he just needs to have his employment reconsidered because of the piss poor teams we've had for 4 straight seasons.

Beachcat97 wrote:Anyone else find him- or herself defending Miller a lot of the time? So many of my UofA friends think Miller is unequivocally dirty and ought to be fired immediately. It’s irritating.

I’ve found the opposite. Lot of Miller lovers in my circle.

Beachcat97 wrote:Anyone else find him- or herself defending Miller a lot of the time? So many of my UofA friends think Miller is unequivocally dirty and ought to be fired immediately. It’s irritating.

It feels so weird...I feel myself needing to defend him regarding the entire FBI/ESPN-gate situation and at the same time, was calling for his firing due to the program’s underperformance the last few years.

I will defend him for the FBI/ESPN bullshit until the day that I die. The performance of his teams, however, I will not.

Miller's had some bad luck for sure, but the good luck he's had hasn't resulted in what I/we had hoped. I'm perfectly willing to support his effort to establish a program around a bunch of three year players and to judge him by that development.

Well the music stopped in the musical chairs game. We are stuck with Miller and Sumlin. Needless to say, I’m a lot more hopeful about the Miller product than the Sumlin product.

ByJoveByJingle wrote:Well the music stopped in the musical chairs game. We are stuck with Miller and Sumlin. Needless to say, I’m a lot more hopeful about the Miller product than the Sumlin product.

One guy is motivated to actually perform still and the other is only motivated by the remaining money that will enter his pocket.

ASUHATER! wrote:I don't think Miller needs to potentially leave because of anything from this scandal...he just needs to have his employment reconsidered because of the piss poor teams we've had for 4 straight seasons.

4 years ago won the PAC12 regular season and tournament.
3 years ago won the PAC12 regular season and tournament
2 years ago injuries and ESPN fucked up the team
This year could have easily won the tournament and lost the regular season title by 3 points

Really stupid and bad take

Beachcat97 wrote:Anyone else find him- or herself defending Miller a lot of the time? So many of my UofA friends think Miller is unequivocally dirty and ought to be fired immediately. It’s irritating.

Your friends are total idiots on the subject

At least in my earshot, the idea that Miller is a dirty cheater seems well entrenched. On the occasions I've tried to discuss the matter with facts and evidence, people look at me like I get my information from Fox News.

I think it comes down to a basic difference between sports and other current events. Sports is just entertainment, so the only time anybody hears anything it's because of a blast of breaking news, which makes a first impression but comes with no follow up because it isn't important enough to substantiate or question.

When eventually a tape gets released with Miller using naughty words, it just reinforces the story that broke years ago. Critical questioning and reason aren't to be wasted on sports.

ESPN enjoys a positive reputation precisely because their focus is on entertainment. The risk of their false reporting, and then a cover-up, is that nobody cares enough about the content to move beyond the widespread initial impression. When a news outlet files a false report about a politician, the other news outlets expose and discredit it, and the only people who continue to believe the false report are people who get their information only from the outlet that presented false information in the first place.

ASUHATER! wrote:I don't think Miller needs to potentially leave because of anything from this scandal...he just needs to have his employment reconsidered because of the piss poor teams we've had for 4 straight seasons.

This is stunning but certainly not surprising considering the individual posting this. So you’re saying the 2017 team, which won the conference tournament title and lost in the sweet 16 was piss poor? And the ‘18 team, which started the year without an injured Rawle Alkins, but won the regular season and conference tournament title was also piss poor?

And the ‘20 team , which started 3 freshmen and was without its starting forward, Gettings, for more than a month, was piss poor?

Stunning. I’ll be sure to list our 17-1 ‘93 team “piss poor” as well. I can’t speak for the players because I’m not one, but if I could the message would be “fuck off.”

zonagrad wrote:

ASUHATER! wrote:I don't think Miller needs to potentially leave because of anything from this scandal...he just needs to have his employment reconsidered because of the piss poor teams we've had for 4 straight seasons.

This is stunning but certainly not surprising considering the individual posting this. So you’re saying the 2017 team, which won the conference tournament title and lost in the sweet 16 was piss poor? And the ‘18 team, which started the year without an injured Rawle Alkins, but won the regular season and conference tournament title was also piss poor?

And the ‘20 team , which started 3 freshmen and was without its starting forward, Gettings, for more than a month, was piss poor?

Stunning. I’ll be sure to list our 17-1 ‘93 team “piss poor” as well. I can’t speak for the players because I’m not one, but if I could the message would be “fuck off.”

Considering the expectations and talent and the results as got.. there's no rational way to describe it other than piss poor. Sadly no one has done less with more than Miller since 2016 or so.

Yeah, he's really had a lot of trouble getting the most out of the teams he's put on the floor lately. For his sake, I hope his new recruitment strategy isn't too little too late.

ASUHATER! wrote:

zonagrad wrote:

ASUHATER! wrote:I don't think Miller needs to potentially leave because of anything from this scandal...he just needs to have his employment reconsidered because of the piss poor teams we've had for 4 straight seasons.

This is stunning but certainly not surprising considering the individual posting this. So you’re saying the 2017 team, which won the conference tournament title and lost in the sweet 16 was piss poor? And the ‘18 team, which started the year without an injured Rawle Alkins, but won the regular season and conference tournament title was also piss poor?

And the ‘20 team , which started 3 freshmen and was without its starting forward, Gettings, for more than a month, was piss poor?

Stunning. I’ll be sure to list our 17-1 ‘93 team “piss poor” as well. I can’t speak for the players because I’m not one, but if I could the message would be “fuck off.”

Considering the expectations and talent and the results as got.. there's no rational way to describe it other than piss poor. Sadly no one has done less with more than Miller since 2016 or so.

You are an entitled fan who feels entitled even though you give nothing to the department.

ASUHATER! wrote:

zonagrad wrote:

ASUHATER! wrote:I don't think Miller needs to potentially leave because of anything from this scandal...he just needs to have his employment reconsidered because of the piss poor teams we've had for 4 straight seasons.

This is stunning but certainly not surprising considering the individual posting this. So you’re saying the 2017 team, which won the conference tournament title and lost in the sweet 16 was piss poor? And the ‘18 team, which started the year without an injured Rawle Alkins, but won the regular season and conference tournament title was also piss poor?

And the ‘20 team , which started 3 freshmen and was without its starting forward, Gettings, for more than a month, was piss poor?

Stunning. I’ll be sure to list our 17-1 ‘93 team “piss poor” as well. I can’t speak for the players because I’m not one, but if I could the message would be “fuck off.”

Considering the expectations and talent and the results as got.. there's no rational way to describe it other than piss poor. Sadly no one has done less with more than Miller since 2016 or so.

Doing less with more is what Miller has become an expert at. It took a pandemic for him to take a pay cut and he probably had to be reminded it was the right thing to do. Most people I talk to think he's dirty and should have been terminated a long time ago and that includes current students. I share that sentiment. To his credit I think his recruiting strategy is finally evolving. I do think he's a better coach with players he can develop over a period of years. He's still a mid-major caliber coach IMHO. Until he can demonstrate the ability to make the most of the talent he recruits I'm not sold on his coaching abilities. It's time to put up or move on for Miller. Fans have grown restless. They want results, not excuses. Figure it out.

I can’t imagine the type of fan you were when Lute was getting bounced in ‘92, ‘93, ‘95, ‘99, ‘00, ‘04, and ‘07. Hell, let’s throw ‘89, ‘90, and ‘91 in there as well. Piss poor is the phrase I believe was used. Doing less with more. Sean Elliott, Damon Stoudamire, Chris Mills, Jason Terry, Michael Wright, Gilbert Arenas, Richard Jefferson, Andre Iguodala, etc... Lute really should’ve taken a pay cut with all that talent contributing to poor tournament performances.

Miller is dirty is literally the dumbest fucking take anyone with a functioning brain can muster.

It’s pretty funny: my perception of AZ fans I know is they kinda think Miller’s dirty AND a good coach for AZ.

So it’s impressive to see people en masse get their two main Miller points wrong.

How many players that played at Arizona for more than one season did not get better?

PHXCATS wrote:How many players that played at Arizona for more than one season did not get better?

Chase Jeter. Next stupid question?

zonagrad wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:How many players that played at Arizona for more than one season did not get better?

Chase Jeter. Next stupid question?

Brandon Randolph, Emmanuel Akot, Alex Barcello.

ChooChooCat wrote:

zonagrad wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:How many players that played at Arizona for more than one season did not get better?

Chase Jeter. Next stupid question?

Brandon Randolph, Emmanuel Akot, Alex Barcello.

They got better. And were really overrated to begin with.

And please excuse my language and tone. In a bit of a mood today. My apologies.

The range of responses to my original question is really interesting.

Seems like most of the irritation/impatience/dissatisfaction with Miller has much more to do with not doing better in March over the last five seasons than it does with some notion that he's a cheater.

Sadly, most of my UofA alum friends are casual fans too easily influenced by the many slanderous articles written about Miller in recent years. Their unhappiness with not getting to the FF coupled with the allegations (even after later being shown false) have made them turn on our coach. It sucks.

A few of them, though, are more nuanced in their thinking and have actually followed how what at first seemed very bad for Miller has since changed. I think Miller's decision to keep Book on staff will always keep him from appearing *completely* exonerated, but for the most part, the initial panic about our coach possibly being a cheater has evaporated.

I've been skeptical about the FBI investigation and Schlabach bullshit from the beginning. My own current feeling on Miller has much more to do with his job performance. The guy is not a cheater. The question of whether he can re-build momentum and get the program competing for a national title...well, that's another matter. I gotta say, though, I definitely like this '20 class. It feels more likely to produce long term stability and gradual improvement that peaks in a couple years.

The irony in this is that Greg Hansen criticized Miller when Book was the lowest paid assistant and didn’t get a significant raise when others did. The narrative was that Miller wasn’t loyal and he wasn’t treating Book well. Book had to take several months off for treatment and was lucky to still have a job. Then Hansen criticized Miller for having a guy like Book on the staff after the FBI story broke.

It wouldn’t surprise me if Miller doesn’t kick himself every day for not getting rid of Book sooner.

I have always supported Miller. I do think he is the right coach for UA and I believe he will break through, big time, in the tourney in the next 2-3 years and will have good success in the PAC-12 in the meantime. I particularly like the change in his recruiting focus because I believe that players who stay for 2, 3, 4 years will be better able to implement his offensive, but particularly his defensive schemes. I am really looking forward to the upcoming basketball season(s).

Sumlin, on the other hand, just can't be gone soon enough for me. I haven't watched a single down of uA football since the ASsU debacle in 2018 and I won't watch again until he is gone.

zonagrad wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:How many players that played at Arizona for more than one season did not get better?

Chase Jeter. Next stupid question?

My point is, if it is only one then he isnt that bad of a coach

zonagrad wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:

zonagrad wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:How many players that played at Arizona for more than one season did not get better?

Chase Jeter. Next stupid question?

Brandon Randolph, Emmanuel Akot, Alex Barcello.

They got better. And were really overrated to begin with.

All 3 were the same player from day 1 to the day they left as sophomores.

zonagrad wrote:I can’t imagine the type of fan you were when Lute was getting bounced in ‘92, ‘93, ‘95, ‘99, ‘00, ‘04, and ‘07.

There were some Final 4s and a national championship mixed in there. Big difference.

I'm really surprised so many Miler defenders still exist.