Bear Down Wildcats

whatisee wrote:

DiehardDave37 wrote:

Chicat wrote:We aren't going to get a Findlay kid to flip. Too much hometown pressure. So we can cross Jackson off the list.

Plus, the interim HC Simons was the HC at Findlay.

only for 1 year

Wasn't he an assistant in that program for quite a good while though prior to being pointed the head man?

Bangkok Wildcat wrote:

az91 wrote:

Chicat wrote:You so rarely see in-season coaching changes in CBB. Makes me wonder what happened.

He should have been fired two years ago.

Just hope they don't hire a good coach....I hate UNLV just a tad less than ASSU....but right up there with Kansas .

So looks like Zimmerman made a good choice...smh, how does anyone pick Rice over Miller? Any UNLV recruits that we might pick up from this?

UNLV aside, I can understand being hesitant on Arizona: Ristic, Tarc, Anderson, with Rabb a possibility (not sure on the timeline with that one). Next year, Ristic, Maarkenen, Comanche.

More minutes elsewhere. For the same reason, I can't fault Rabb.

i believe leaf was a commit at the time, too.

gumby wrote:

Bangkok Wildcat wrote:

az91 wrote:

Chicat wrote:You so rarely see in-season coaching changes in CBB. Makes me wonder what happened.

He should have been fired two years ago.

Just hope they don't hire a good coach....I hate UNLV just a tad less than ASSU....but right up there with Kansas .

So looks like Zimmerman made a good choice...smh, how does anyone pick Rice over Miller? Any UNLV recruits that we might pick up from this?

UNLV aside, I can understand being hesitant on Arizona: Ristic, Tarc, Anderson, with Rabb a possibility (not sure on the timeline with that one). Next year, Ristic, Maarkenen, Comanche.

More minutes elsewhere. For the same reason, I can't fault Rabb.

Yeah I totally get Zimm not choosing Arizona, but he could've went anywhere he wanted and "he chose" Dave Rice. On the same note Ivan Rabb could've played anywhere and he chose Cuonzo Martin. These kids need guidance counselors man.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

carolinacat wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

carolinacat wrote:If you're gonna fire the guy, fine. Do it at the end of the season. But why embarrass your entire athletic department? All it does is turn off potential recruits and alienate your current players. Stupid move. It's not as though the guy was mistreating his players or behaving badly. On that issue, Rice was very, very good. He just wasn't winning.

Waiting has effects too. Think about being a recruit who signs right before the predetermined firing happens. Recruit is locked into a coach the school never had the intent to keep.

This isn't the NBA, where midseason firings are always about W's and L's. If UNLV gets a replacement fast enough, they don't have to mislead their 2016 class or risk losing their 2016 class.

I'm not saying it is always the right move, just that things aren't black and white. Allowing players to reopen their recruitment if the coach is fired is the right move, but that is the NCAA. It would prevent the weird incentives here, though.

By all reports, Rice did everything right regarding recruiting, academics, player relationships, etc... The knock wasn't enough wins. I can perfectly understand dumping a coach because of off court issues or behavior, treatment of players, etc... But this was simply about not winning enough, which frankly isn't fair to Rice or the players. Unless UNLV already has someone in mind that is available immediately, what's the point of canning Rice now? You gain nothing. The hire isn't going to be made until after the season anyway and all you've done is throw in the towel on this season and the current players. This decision should have been made prior to this season, or until the conclusion. Not midway.

It's a business. For what it's worth, the firing now is probably something UNLV views as not throwing the towel in on this season.

Coaches are hired to win. All that other stuff is nice, but ultimately it is about winning. Rice had already made his bed in that department. What benefit is there to keeping a lame duck on to fire him at the end of the year?

I wonder if they'd have Kobi Simmons in the fold if Rice was still on the bench.

Then I guess the question is, can you fire a coach who has a 5-star prospect locked into his next recruiting class?

Yes, if your head coach can't coach. Rice is a good recruiter, period. His players like him mostly too...but he can't coach a lick. He literally was getting out coached nightly. I hate UNLV but I have so many friends & family who love them & you can't find one who is super upset about this. Only a few people that don't think they can do much better. Sad really.

dirtbags wrote: btw - is it a foregone conclusion that zimm is a OAD? any chance (rumors) that he'll xfr? i guess Miller could make room for zimm and his mom if he wanted to...

Zimm is #17 on DraftExpress for 2016, so I would say less than 0 chance he would sit out a year anywhere.

Bear Down Vegas wrote:Yes, if your head coach can't coach. Rice is a good recruiter, period. His players like him mostly too...but he can't coach a lick. He literally was getting out coached nightly. I hate UNLV but I have so many friends & family who love them & you can't find one who is super upset about this. Only a few people that don't think they can do much better. Sad really.

I've got several friends that are UNLV season ticket holders and not a one of them are upset over this. They wanted him gone. Great recruiter, nice guy, but sucks as a coach. The big money boosters wanted him gone too which might have been the tipping point.

Seems a lot of the fans would love to see Archie Miller as the next coach, but I don't see a chance in hell of that happening. The only schools I could see Archie moving on to would be one that's in a B5 conference.

I'm glad they got rid of Rice for purely selfish reasons. We were able to land a five-star recruit in no small part due to UNLVs administration

What is this crazy rumor of Pitino going to UNLV? On the Rivals main board it was a funny read.

Chicat wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

carolinacat wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

carolinacat wrote:If you're gonna fire the guy, fine. Do it at the end of the season. But why embarrass your entire athletic department? All it does is turn off potential recruits and alienate your current players. Stupid move. It's not as though the guy was mistreating his players or behaving badly. On that issue, Rice was very, very good. He just wasn't winning.

Waiting has effects too. Think about being a recruit who signs right before the predetermined firing happens. Recruit is locked into a coach the school never had the intent to keep.

This isn't the NBA, where midseason firings are always about W's and L's. If UNLV gets a replacement fast enough, they don't have to mislead their 2016 class or risk losing their 2016 class.

I'm not saying it is always the right move, just that things aren't black and white. Allowing players to reopen their recruitment if the coach is fired is the right move, but that is the NCAA. It would prevent the weird incentives here, though.

By all reports, Rice did everything right regarding recruiting, academics, player relationships, etc... The knock wasn't enough wins. I can perfectly understand dumping a coach because of off court issues or behavior, treatment of players, etc... But this was simply about not winning enough, which frankly isn't fair to Rice or the players. Unless UNLV already has someone in mind that is available immediately, what's the point of canning Rice now? You gain nothing. The hire isn't going to be made until after the season anyway and all you've done is throw in the towel on this season and the current players. This decision should have been made prior to this season, or until the conclusion. Not midway.

It's a business. For what it's worth, the firing now is probably something UNLV views as not throwing the towel in on this season.

Coaches are hired to win. All that other stuff is nice, but ultimately it is about winning. Rice had already made his bed in that department. What benefit is there to keeping a lame duck on to fire him at the end of the year?

I wonder if they'd have Kobi Simmons in the fold if Rice was still on the bench.

Then I guess the question is, can you fire a coach who has a 5-star prospect locked into his next recruiting class?

Rice's issue was never bringing the talent in. It was what happened when the talent was there.

Simmons's situation is a good example of why I don't have a big issue with midseason firings when a coach is dead in the water. Simmons knew Rice was gone and got to recalculate. If the divorce happens later, maybe he doesn't get the chance.

VegasCatFan wrote:

Bear Down Vegas wrote:Yes, if your head coach can't coach. Rice is a good recruiter, period. His players like him mostly too...but he can't coach a lick. He literally was getting out coached nightly. I hate UNLV but I have so many friends & family who love them & you can't find one who is super upset about this. Only a few people that don't think they can do much better. Sad really.

I've got several friends that are UNLV season ticket holders and not a one of them are upset over this. They wanted him gone. Great recruiter, nice guy, but sucks as a coach. The big money boosters wanted him gone too which might have been the tipping point.

Seems a lot of the fans would love to see Archie Miller as the next coach, but I don't see a chance in hell of that happening. The only schools I could see Archie moving on to would be one that's in a B5 conference.

UNLV has as high potential as any midmajor. The right coach could get close to the glory days of Tark. If I was Archie, I'd rather be in Vegas than half of the power 5 teams at least.

Archie makes $652K. I believe Rice made $600K base salary and $100K additional moneys, with additional performance bonuses.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Chicat wrote:I wonder if they'd have Kobi Simmons in the fold if Rice was still on the bench.

Then I guess the question is, can you fire a coach who has a 5-star prospect locked into his next recruiting class?

Rice's issue was never bringing the talent in. It was what happened when the talent was there.

Simmons's situation is a good example of why I don't have a big issue with midseason firings when a coach is dead in the water. Simmons knew Rice was gone and got to recalculate. If the divorce happens later, maybe he doesn't get the chance.

Right, but you were arguing the advantages for the school. I still don't see them.

Chicat wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Chicat wrote:I wonder if they'd have Kobi Simmons in the fold if Rice was still on the bench.

Then I guess the question is, can you fire a coach who has a 5-star prospect locked into his next recruiting class?

Rice's issue was never bringing the talent in. It was what happened when the talent was there.

Simmons's situation is a good example of why I don't have a big issue with midseason firings when a coach is dead in the water. Simmons knew Rice was gone and got to recalculate. If the divorce happens later, maybe he doesn't get the chance.

Right, but you were arguing the advantages for the school. I still don't see them.

Other than potentially locking recruits in who don't want to be there without Rice, I don't see why they should wait when his fate is sealed. Finishing a season with a coach you don't intend to keep is like living together with a divorce pending.

If there's a short term advantage to the school, it depends on when the replacement is hired. Early enough, and they have some ability to mitigate damage in the '16 class. For instance, Miller's landing Dwill, Momo, Parrom, Solo and Kyryl to salvage that first class was instrumental in continued success.

Other than that, you get to avoid the awkwardness of a dwad man walking, but I don't see a huge advantage either way.

We once had a dead man walking (Pennell) and hired a coach after the season and he pulled that recruiting class you mentioned.

I guess my point is that I'd rather have a few days/weeks where the direction of the program is up in the air than months.

Chicat wrote:We once had a dead man walking (Pennell) and hired a coach after the season and he pulled that recruiting class you mentioned.

I guess my point is that I'd rather have a few days/weeks where the direction of the program is up in the air than months.

We can agree to disagree. I just don't see a functional difference bc Rice's fate was pretty well sealed.

Merkin wrote:Archie makes $652K. I believe Rice made $600K base salary and $100K additional moneys, with additional performance bonuses.

My nightmare scenario is Archie at UNLV or any Pac12 school.......

Bangkok Wildcat wrote:

Merkin wrote:Archie makes $652K. I believe Rice made $600K base salary and $100K additional moneys, with additional performance bonuses.

My nightmare scenario is Archie at UNLV or any Pac12 school.......

I do not see Archie at any school where he would have to play or recruit against his brother on a regular basis.

Arizona recruits nationally, as do most top flight programs, so the second line item might just happen out of circumstance.

Archie will have infinite better offers than UNLV. If UNLV was such a great job their realistic coach list would extend beyond Steve Lavin & Dan Majerle and they never would have had to settle for Dave Rice prior to that. UNLV has been past the first weekend in the tournament once since 1991 and has only made the tournament 8 times in that same time period. They get fed players from Findlay Prep (if they were indoctrinated to the program early enough or they have grade issues), but that's about the only major benefit to a coach there. It's a job for a retread or an up and comer and not a guy like Archie who has already proven himself at a lateral level job and will do much better.

If Archie ever gets a Pac-12 job or one in this region of the country it'd be at Arizona to replace Sean or maybe at UCLA and that would only happen if Sean wasn't coaching at Arizona any longer.

ChooChooCat wrote:Archie will have infinite better offers than UNLV. If UNLV was such a great job their realistic coach list would extend beyond Steve Lavin & Dan Majerle and they never would have had to settle for Dave Rice prior to that. UNLV has been past the first weekend in the tournament once since 1991 and has only made the tournament 8 times in that same time period. They get fed players from Findlay Prep (if they were indoctrinated to the program early enough or they have grade issues), but that's about the only major benefit to a coach there. It's a job for a retread or an up and comer and not a guy like Archie who has already proven himself at a lateral level job and will do much better.

If Archie ever gets a Pac-12 job or one in this region of the country it'd be at Arizona to replace Sean or maybe at UCLA and that would only happen if Sean wasn't coaching at Arizona any longer.

I have heard more than once that Archie and/or the Mrs. is not fan of living in the West..

Harvey Specter wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:Archie will have infinite better offers than UNLV. If UNLV was such a great job their realistic coach list would extend beyond Steve Lavin & Dan Majerle and they never would have had to settle for Dave Rice prior to that. UNLV has been past the first weekend in the tournament once since 1991 and has only made the tournament 8 times in that same time period. They get fed players from Findlay Prep (if they were indoctrinated to the program early enough or they have grade issues), but that's about the only major benefit to a coach there. It's a job for a retread or an up and comer and not a guy like Archie who has already proven himself at a lateral level job and will do much better.

If Archie ever gets a Pac-12 job or one in this region of the country it'd be at Arizona to replace Sean or maybe at UCLA and that would only happen if Sean wasn't coaching at Arizona any longer.

I have heard more than once that Archie and/or the Mrs. is not fan of living in the West..

Allergies? Not enough grass?

UAEebs86 wrote:

Harvey Specter wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:Archie will have infinite better offers than UNLV. If UNLV was such a great job their realistic coach list would extend beyond Steve Lavin & Dan Majerle and they never would have had to settle for Dave Rice prior to that. UNLV has been past the first weekend in the tournament once since 1991 and has only made the tournament 8 times in that same time period. They get fed players from Findlay Prep (if they were indoctrinated to the program early enough or they have grade issues), but that's about the only major benefit to a coach there. It's a job for a retread or an up and comer and not a guy like Archie who has already proven himself at a lateral level job and will do much better.

If Archie ever gets a Pac-12 job or one in this region of the country it'd be at Arizona to replace Sean or maybe at UCLA and that would only happen if Sean wasn't coaching at Arizona any longer.

I have heard more than once that Archie and/or the Mrs. is not fan of living in the West..

Allergies? Not enough grass?

No idea. But I first heard it while he was still an assistant. And thankfully I have never heard it about the Miller couple that matters to us.

But scoff at it and assume everyone from the East Coast believes Tucson is the Garden of Eden if you wish...

Pasternack being considered.

Puerco wrote:Pasternack being considered.

I heard that initially as well. But I would think the UNLV people with deep pockets would want a proven entity. Otherwise, why go through the trouble of getting rid of a coach in mid-season to replace him with an unproven assistant?

Puerco wrote:Pasternack being considered.

http://m.reviewjournal.com/sports/baske ... etball-job" target="_blank

livengood, jessup, now pasternack? c'mon, unlv.