Bear Down Wildcats

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

SteveKerrsStroke wrote:So Medcalf is running the Sean Miller beat now?

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket ... r-contract" target="_blank

Keep taking that L Schlabach

Funny how no mention of any other criticism or controversy regarding the original Schlabach report.

Thats not funny thats the legal department vetting all reporting lately...go back and read the article and notice how "gappy" it is...that article has had redaction in it.

If Sean is exonerated and coaches, do you ever take another question/interview/allow access to ESPN again?

btfd16 wrote:If Sean is exonerated and coaches, do you ever take another question/interview/allow access to ESPN again?

Or Greg Hansen for that matter

BE4RDOWN21 wrote:

btfd16 wrote:If Sean is exonerated and coaches, do you ever take another question/interview/allow access to ESPN again?

Or Greg Hansen for that matter

can he still be employed?

I'd like to see a prop on Hansen vs Miller...who lasts longer?

Hansen + 750...but dropping?

I think that's the other aspect of this that's compelling: careers are possibly at stake. If Miller is exonerated, how can Schlabach ever be taken seriously again as a journalist? Or Hansen? If Miller's fired, well, it's unlikely he'll ever get another big-time college job.

The fact that Schlabach is going into Day 4 of his silence/being silenced says a lot about his future.

I do find it interesting Medcalf's last line at the bottom of his article

"Ayton did not speak with FBI or NCAA officials under oath, according to Kelly."

I'm not as proficient in the journalism spectrum, but I can't tell if this is just him covering bases, adding extra facts or if it's a slight jab. Maybe I'm reading too much into it

Azcentral starts questioning eSpin

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/ ... 382372002/

Um.....it’s a crime to lie to the FBI.. Unless you’re a politician anyways.

Chicat wrote:The fact that Schlabach is going into Day 4 of his silence/being silenced says a lot about his future.

Had to have been advised legally to just shut up until it is finished.

CatFanOneMil wrote:Azcentral starts questioning eSpin

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/ ... 382372002/

Scheer with his best work ever over the last 6 days by a mile

Must spread rep.

CatFanOneMil wrote:Azcentral starts questioning eSpin

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/ ... 382372002/

These new AZcentral writers are such absolute knobs. That entire publication has gone to shit since Gannett took over. If I wanted to read the USA Today I would read the USA Today.

Where can I get grenades to start lobbing at other programs?

I mean with people speculating it wasn't even Miller on the line... If I connect the dots...Kansas was recruiting Ayton that means it has to be Self as the coach requesting 100k. I'm damn good at this journalism thing!

How can they not let Miller coach the rest of the season?

Guess they ran a sports center piece

What this all comes down to today, aside from all of the legal maneuvering is that the optics clearly show me that Robbins and Heeke very likely do not believe Miller and they very likely have some deeper high value sources that can corroborate their stance. Look, if what 97 confided with us that Seth Davis knew, and said so publically that there was some dirty shit going on back in 2016 and openly admitted such at a party, then it dosen't take a rocket scientist to figure out where this is going.

If it has taken Robbins and Heeke this long to make a statement publically announcing "The university stands 100% behind Sean Miller", which they haven't, then you all have you're answer.

At this point all Arizona fans should be thinking about is who is the next man up.

CatFanOneMil wrote:Azcentral starts questioning eSpin

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/ ... 382372002/

Let the message ring out from Tumamoc Hill to whatever passes for a hill around Bristol, Connecticut.

Scheer on 1290 right now

Gladiator Cat wrote:What this all comes down to today, aside from all of the legal maneuvering is that the optics clearly show me that Robbins and Heeke very likely do not believe Miller and they very likely have some deeper high value sources that can corroborate their stance. Look, if what 97 confided with us that Seth Davis knew, and said so publically that there was some dirty shit going on back in 2016 and openly admitted such at a party, then it dosen't take a rocket scientist to figure out where this is going.

If it has taken Robbins and Heeke this long to make a statement publically announcing "The university stands 100% behind Sean Miller", which they haven't, then you all have you're answer.

At this point all Arizona fans should be thinking about is who is the next man up.

The clear and present problem with this theory is that the FBI has ALL the evidence it is going to get to indict Miller and they have not.

I can pretty we assure you that if they raided his house/computers/school and he is still coaching then they do not have enough to convict.

Lets not forget they have Book Richardson as well.

I'm as interested in conspiracy theories as the next guy hell I thought John Titor really was a time traveler for a few months, but evidence does not support this theory.

The LEAK does not really support this theory, it just tries to.

Pat Forde said NOTHING in all those pages incriminated Miller.

Titor was made up...a brilliant story and this feels exactly the same as that...

It starts out as "Holy crap can this be real?

Then advances to "Well I'll be damned I had no idea, but wondered"

And graduates to "No man you gotta see this shit, it IS GOING DOWN! Get the popcorn"

And then...an inkling of doubt reappears...that inkling leads to a flaw...which reveals a crack that contributes to a shift until the whole thing comes down and you say "Well duh"

And embarrassingly walk away from the conspiracy edge back to normal perspectives.

Context that mainly manipulates emotion is not text it is mostly con.

Gladiator Cat wrote:... is that the optics clearly show me that Robbins and Heeke very likely do not believe Miller

i believe they believe Coach Miller in his refute to the report from ESPN - what i think scares the living daylights out of them about the long term situation is anyone close to this entire situation is aware and has been made aware that the FBI is sitting on a huge pile of evidence scanning ALL of college bball and Arizona and Sean Miller allegedly have a large part in that.

does it ever get released? who knows?

will it ever result in sanctions or further the scandal? who knows?

however, as see over the last six days, in todays environment of the court of public opinion and internet journalism there are leaks and fabrications and manipulations that spurn chaos -- would Arizona be in a position to feel the heat from this avenue again and god for bid it was attacked during the NCAA Tournament or a Final Four by someone who sitting on information (baseless or not) that could further damage the program far beyond whats already transpired????

to use the optics reference, that then would fall back on the AD for not being proactive and putting the university's best interest at mind when speculation and accusation arose in February after initial representation in September.

that has been the discussion and the heads of Arizona are in a tough spot, keep him and risk the above which has the potential to be far worse than the former, or part ways now and pay a huge number to get out.

97,
Then how can you let Romar coach if there is info on Fultz out there?

CatFanOneMil wrote:

Gladiator Cat wrote:What this all comes down to today, aside from all of the legal maneuvering is that the optics clearly show me that Robbins and Heeke very likely do not believe Miller and they very likely have some deeper high value sources that can corroborate their stance. Look, if what 97 confided with us that Seth Davis knew, and said so publically that there was some dirty shit going on back in 2016 and openly admitted such at a party, then it dosen't take a rocket scientist to figure out where this is going.

If it has taken Robbins and Heeke this long to make a statement publically announcing "The university stands 100% behind Sean Miller", which they haven't, then you all have you're answer.

At this point all Arizona fans should be thinking about is who is the next man up.

The clear and present problem with this theory is that the FBI has ALL the evidence it is going to get to indict Miller and they have not.

I can pretty we assure you that if they raided his house/computers/school and he is still coaching then they do not have enough to convict.

Lets not forget they have Book Richardson as well.

I'm as interested in conspiracy theories as the next guy hell I thought John Titor really was a time traveler for a few months, but evidence does not support this theory.

The LEAK does not really support this theory, it just tries to.

Pat Forde said NOTHING in all those pages incriminated Miller.

Titor was made up...a brilliant story and this feels exactly the same as that...

It starts out as "Holy crap can this be real?

Then advances to "Well I'll be damned I had no idea, but wondered"

And graduates to "No man you gotta see this shit, it IS GOING DOWN! Get the popcorn"

And then...an inkling of doubt reappears...that inkling leads to a flaw...which reveals a crack that contributes to a shift until the whole thing comes down and you say "Well duh"

And embarrassingly walk away from the conspiracy edge back to normal perspectives.

Context that mainly manipulates emotion is not text it is mostly con.

CatFanOneMil, I'm afraid I'm going to have to leave time travelers and conspiracy theories to you.

You see, I'm just an old dumb country boy, you can't throw too much at me at once. I'll just stick to the easy stuff.....................like?

When is Dr. Robbins and Dave Heeke going to make a statement publically announcing "The university stands 100% behind Sean Miller"?

I think you already have you're answer but probably not the one you want to hear.

97cats wrote:

Gladiator Cat wrote:... is that the optics clearly show me that Robbins and Heeke very likely do not believe Miller

i believe they believe Coach Miller in his refute to the report from ESPN - what i think scares the living daylights out of them about the long term situation is anyone close to this entire situation is aware and has been made aware that the FBI is sitting on a huge pile of evidence scanning ALL of college bball and Arizona and Sean Miller allegedly have a large part in that.

does it ever get released? who knows?

will it ever result in sanctions or further the scandal? who knows?

however, as see over the last six days, in todays environment of the court of public opinion and internet journalism there are leaks and fabrications and manipulations that spurn chaos -- would Arizona be in a position to feel the heat from this avenue again and god for bid it was attacked during the NCAA Tournament or a Final Four by someone who sitting on information (baseless or not) that could further damage the program far beyond whats already transpired????

to use the optics reference, that then would fall back on the AD for not being proactive and putting the university's best interest at mind when speculation and accusation arose in February after initial representation in September.

that has been the discussion and the heads of Arizona are in a tough spot, keep him and risk the above which has the potential to be far worse than the former, or part ways now and pay a huge number to get out.

97, thanks for the clarification. Always appreciate the inputs.

UAEebs86 wrote:97,
Then how can you let Romar coach if there is info on Fultz out there?

well first from AZ's perspective thats from another university and there is only allegations and a yahoo report.

plus, like it or not, in the college basketball circles Arizona has been the hot topic inside this scandal, not Washington. as much as i feel like there is culpability to spread around, Arizona is the big fish here and in some cases, depending who you speak with, the biggest offender.

lets make no bones about it, Arizona has made ZERO friends among its peers over the last 7 years on the recruiting trail and in some cases has burned bridges and lived on the edge.

being brazen can be great but it can also be a weakness, and Sean Miller & Co went about their business answering to nobody except the top line boosters and the former AD.

lets just say that there seems to me, certainly over the last 9 months, to be a harden fast microscope on AZ around the country in these circles and no question people who were living just to expose AZ.

Pat Forde even said so himself eluding to the smoke around AZ's program for years, inside college bball its just known or perceived to be known that AZ's machine is more capitalized and aggressive than yours, hence why the CATS can compete and have success against the traditional guys (Duke, Kansas, Kentucky, UNC, etc.) on the recruiting trail.

where it has failed miller was a translation to the floor and a final four, which woulda done him a ton of good in Tucson with the powers that be and their willingness to protect their commodity.

How about mutually agree to separate but he coaches to the seasons conclusion? Seems like not a whole lot of risk there

97cats wrote:

Gladiator Cat wrote:... is that the optics clearly show me that Robbins and Heeke very likely do not believe Miller

i believe they believe Coach Miller in his refute to the report from ESPN - what i think scares the living daylights out of them about the long term situation is anyone close to this entire situation is aware and has been made aware that the FBI is sitting on a huge pile of evidence scanning ALL of college bball and Arizona and Sean Miller allegedly have a large part in that.

does it ever get released? who knows?

will it ever result in sanctions or further the scandal? who knows?

however, as see over the last six days, in todays environment of the court of public opinion and internet journalism there are leaks and fabrications and manipulations that spurn chaos -- would Arizona be in a position to feel the heat from this avenue again and god for bid it was attacked during the NCAA Tournament or a Final Four by someone who sitting on information (baseless or not) that could further damage the program far beyond whats already transpired????

to use the optics reference, that then would fall back on the AD for not being proactive and putting the university's best interest at mind when speculation and accusation arose in February after initial representation in September.

that has been the discussion and the heads of Arizona are in a tough spot, keep him and risk the above which has the potential to be far worse than the former, or part ways now and pay a huge number to get out.

Great post.

It encapsulates my feelings. If the complete truth about CBB ever really came out, either the NCAA would have to just give up or there wouldn't be enough eligible teams to hold a tournament for 2-3 years.

The BEST CASE scenario for a head coach in the world of 100% truth is that he knew what was going on but didn't participate, just gave tacit approval. That goes for Sean Miller, John Wooden, Mike Kryzyzewski, Roy Williams...everyone.

That limits how strong we can be. Even if the ESPN report gets refuted, the FBI complaint and Book still cast a shadow. What ESPN did means that if a new allegation comes, even a minor incident Miller would otherwise survive, we get flayed.

What ESPN did was switch the burden of proof for future allegations. We're not presumed innocent. We're presumed guilty now and double for anything in the future.

97cats wrote:

Gladiator Cat wrote:... is that the optics clearly show me that Robbins and Heeke very likely do not believe Miller

i believe they believe Coach Miller in his refute to the report from ESPN - what i think scares the living daylights out of them about the long term situation is anyone close to this entire situation is aware and has been made aware that the FBI is sitting on a huge pile of evidence scanning ALL of college bball and Arizona and Sean Miller allegedly have a large part in that.

does it ever get released? who knows?

will it ever result in sanctions or further the scandal? who knows?

however, as see over the last six days, in todays environment of the court of public opinion and internet journalism there are leaks and fabrications and manipulations that spurn chaos -- would Arizona be in a position to feel the heat from this avenue again and god for bid it was attacked during the NCAA Tournament or a Final Four by someone who sitting on information (baseless or not) that could further damage the program far beyond whats already transpired????

to use the optics reference, that then would fall back on the AD for not being proactive and putting the university's best interest at mind when speculation and accusation arose in February after initial representation in September.

that has been the discussion and the heads of Arizona are in a tough spot, keep him and risk the above which has the potential to be far worse than the former, or part ways now and pay a huge number to get out.

I truly do not believe that firing him now would help them if here is really some secret pot of gold the FBI is sitting on waiting to pounce. The damage is already done if it is done, and no one is going to give Arizona some sort of mulligan just because they fire him now based purely on conjecture. Look at Louisville - they bent over backwards to sanction themselves and still got completely hosed.

Fuck em, lets make a run and show future players and coaches what loyalty means in Arizona.

azcat49 wrote:How about mutually agree to separate but he coaches to the seasons conclusion? Seems like not a whole lot of risk there

There isn't, but the question is, have the powers that be learned that standing up for what and who you believe in is the way you actually succeed in life?

azgreg wrote:

Aw man. Just when I was about to donate 7 figures for a seat at the table.... Next time.

Truly unbelievable Schlabach drops this story and then isn't even in Tucson to follow-up his "work".

azcat49 wrote:How about mutually agree to separate but he coaches to the seasons conclusion? Seems like not a whole lot of risk there

that was secretly on the table pretty much the entire season - hence why i kept being vague but pointing out that this was Miller's last season in Tucson.

"sometimes a fresh start is the best for everyone."

Yeah.. seriously.. How much more are future allegations going to damage our program?

Look at all spectrums of our political figures, no scandal sinks anybody anymore

If the entire body of big time college basketball is tainted, what does Arizona gain by jettisoning Miller and buying an unknown?

Better to dance with the devil you know.

SteveKerrsStroke wrote:Yeah.. seriously.. How much more are future allegations going to damage our program?

Look at all spectrums of our political figures, no scandal sinks anybody anymore

It's becoming normalized. As will this. Difference is this is a good thing. I used to tell everyone years ago, with the rise of social media and cameras essentially in our pockets, no one would be able to go scandal free in 10 years. Hell, I am probably on hundreds of phones acting like a drunk idiot at UofA. I know for a fact there are pics of us skinny dipping in Old Main and jumping off the high dive.

SteveKerrsStroke wrote:Yeah.. seriously.. How much more are future allegations going to damage our program?

i agree if this was the first sign, or even second, but Arizona is under a tremendous amount of scrutiny behind the scenes with many people frothing at the mouth for their pound of flesh.

keeping Miller on through the season is what i want, but i 100% understand being scared to do so if more fallout or detail is released at a more high profile time, especially given that Arizona was perceived to be dead in the water at the end of February.

if in fact they do move on as business as usual and fight the claim and then there is a substantiated report that is not based on speculation i believe that would hurt Arizona, the president of the university, and it AD far more than if they cut bait now.

but its not a perfect world, they have people to answer to including the fans boosters players and university who want a winner and the money and the notarity but dont want to know how.

its been going on at AZ for decades and when Lute Olson was here things were handled just a weeeeeee bit different...im telling you Sean Miller took the power and resources of Arizona Basketball to another level doing things on the recruiting trail that most thought never imaginable. he was careless sometimes mostly being loyal and trusting a man who has a tough time making good choices.

dont let it fall on def ears that many o folks who care about AZ had told Sean to get rid of Book as he would be his demise and Coach Miller, like he so often does, chose to do his own thing and ignore the pleas.

azcat34 wrote:Truly unbelievable Schlabach drops this story and then isn't even in Tucson to follow-up his "work".

Look kids, anyone is a source if they tell you something. It's nice if you report a year, but don't get discouraged if you get it wrong the first few times.

97cats wrote:

azcat49 wrote:How about mutually agree to separate but he coaches to the seasons conclusion? Seems like not a whole lot of risk there

that was secretly on the table pretty much the entire season - hence why i kept being vague but pointing out that this was Miller's last season in Tucson.

"sometimes a fresh start is the best for everyone."

Prior to the Book arrest, wasn’t Miller on his way to another major recruiting class? Would he have walked away from it? That said, it sounds like there was was mutual agreement to go in a different direction.

I know 97 has been alluding to that agreement but why back off now when there are clear holes to the story that started this.

You can mention that given the informati I need at hand the UofA feels comfortable allowing Miller to finish this year but then we will part ways due to what will be an ongoing investigation that will need both parties 100% attention

midnightx wrote: Prior to the Book arrest, wasn’t Miller on his way to another major recruiting class? Would he have walked away from it? That said, it sounds like there was was mutual agreement to go in a different direction.

what i elude to all came after the FBI scandal hit in terms of Miller moving on - at the time the story broke there was too much info and no connection to Sean Miller. he cooperated and was in the clear...as time went on shortly thereafter it became obvious that a day would come where it would no longer be unavailable.

would that be six month? one year? two years? nobody knows.

Arizona was prepared to try and show well and deal with this internally their way quietly and under wraps after the season in what is/was the best interest of the university and program and that fell apart sfter BOGUS ESPN report was released

97cats wrote:

midnightx wrote: Prior to the Book arrest, wasn’t Miller on his way to another major recruiting class? Would he have walked away from it? That said, it sounds like there was was mutual agreement to go in a different direction.

what i elude to all came after the FBI scandal hit in terms of Miller moving on - at the time the story broke there was too much info and no connection to Sean Miller. he cooperated and was in the clear...as time went on shortly thereafter it became obvious that a day would come where it would no longer be unavailable.

would that be six month? one year? two years? nobody knows.

Arizona was prepared to try and show well and deal with this internally their way quietly and under wraps after the season in what is/was the best interest of the university and program and that fell apart sfter BOGUS ESPN report was released

What if...Miller leaked the story

I just hope they can negotiate out of his buyout if any if anything drops in the next six weeks and get him back on the sidelines for one more run.

But if they decide in the interests of the AD and cats basketball, I’d understand.

No mention of Ayton

azcat49 wrote:I know 97 has been alluding to that agreement but why back off now when there are clear holes to the story that started this.

You can mention that given the informati I need at hand the UofA feels comfortable allowing Miller to finish this year but then we will part ways due to what will be an ongoing investigation that will need both parties 100% attention

The problem with potential for more damning material out there is that we'd get drilled in public. We'd debunk ESPN, but if we get another allegation, it wouldn't matter. We'd just be cheaters and people wouldn't care about the veracity of the ESPN report.

It's better if other news outlets do it for us. There's a strong anti-ESPN movement and ESPN is weak and vulnerable to other outlets. That's our best hope. If I'm Arizona and I got solid info to debunk ESPN, I wouldn't release it myself, I'd leak it to 24/7.

97, any idea of what kind of sanctions AZ may be facing? One wonders if AZ will ever fully recover.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

azcat49 wrote:I know 97 has been alluding to that agreement but why back off now when there are clear holes to the story that started this.

You can mention that given the informati I need at hand the UofA feels comfortable allowing Miller to finish this year but then we will part ways due to what will be an ongoing investigation that will need both parties 100% attention

The problem with potential for more damning material out there is that we'd get drilled in public. We'd debunk ESPN, but if we get another allegation, it wouldn't matter. We'd just be cheaters and people wouldn't care about the veracity of the ESPN report.

It's better if other news outlets do it for us. There's a strong anti-ESPN movement and ESPN is weak and vulnerable to other outlets. That's our best hope. If I'm Arizona and I got solid info to debunk ESPN, I wouldn't release it myself, I'd leak it to 24/7.

But maybe they’ve already opened the door to that. I mean when 247 came out earlier this week and stated that there are sources who can vouch that what is on that tape will surely exonerate CSM. Someone on this board, I believe 97, (and forgive me 97 if it wasn’t you) stated that the timing of this release was calculated. Maybe I’m grasping at straws

NYCat wrote:No mention of Ayton

Unbelievable, have they updated the corrections page for the 3rd time?

midnightx wrote:97, any idea of what kind of sanctions AZ may be facing? One wonders if AZ will ever fully recover.

no idea - but there is a theory (not sure how relevant it is) that if the onus is put on the university to handle initially (which it was to AZ) and that said university takes the proactive proper steps to clean or expose the issue on its own, than the NCAA will look more favorably on their investigation once thats concluded -- versus ignoring or arguing the opposite side or in some cases doing nothing and then being found guilty which directly results in more severe sanctions.

BE4RDOWN21 wrote:

97cats wrote:

midnightx wrote: Prior to the Book arrest, wasn’t Miller on his way to another major recruiting class? Would he have walked away from it? That said, it sounds like there was was mutual agreement to go in a different direction.

what i elude to all came after the FBI scandal hit in terms of Miller moving on - at the time the story broke there was too much info and no connection to Sean Miller. he cooperated and was in the clear...as time went on shortly thereafter it became obvious that a day would come where it would no longer be unavailable.

would that be six month? one year? two years? nobody knows.

Arizona was prepared to try and show well and deal with this internally their way quietly and under wraps after the season in what is/was the best interest of the university and program and that fell apart sfter BOGUS ESPN report was released

What if...Miller leaked the story

Honestly though, money wise, this could work out better for Miller. If the agreement was in place to part at the end of the season, Miller would have come out with nothing. Now, he can sue ESPN and Schlabach claiming that they lost him his job and tarnished his reputation. Even if he does coach out the rest of the season.