Bear Down Wildcats

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

DrWildcat wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:

DrWildcat wrote:Nova is made up of 4 and 5 star players (mostly 4 star) so its not like they don't have talent. The key is that their best players were guards. Guards win in March.

Not sure this is accurate. Was DiVincenzo even rated coming out of HS?

And Paschal is a transfer from Fordham.

As tucsonsean said DiVincenzo was 4 star. Paschall was a transfer but so was TJ and he was pretty good. Sometimes that happens. The only other guy that logged any minutes and wasn't 4 star or above was Gillespie (3 star). So they had some talented players.

Yeah, Nova has actually pulled some of their strongest recruiting classes lately. Brunson was probably considered the best PG in his class. Some ranking had Briscoe and Thornton above him, but he's obviously substantially outperformed them.

Nova isn't a little engine that could. They're a team with legit talent that has developed very well.

NYCat wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

NYCat wrote:

Respect for putting his money where his mouth is.

TatetheGreat wrote:We knew there was maneuvering during the ABOR meetings but never heard the upshot. He still gets a huge payout if he's fired with or without cause. This means very little.

MC1983 wrote:

TatetheGreat wrote:We knew there was maneuvering during the ABOR meetings but never heard the upshot. He still gets a huge payout if he's fired with or without cause. This means very little.

You are a Miller hater so your comment is no surprise.

MC1983 wrote:

TatetheGreat wrote:We knew there was maneuvering during the ABOR meetings but never heard the upshot. He still gets a huge payout if he's fired with or without cause. This means very little.

You are a Miller hater so your comment is no surprise.

Bosy Billups wrote:The most meaningful statement addendum would be adding a $5 or even $10mm buyout clause. That insures the university in case needed to buyout an existing top tier coach, and deters others from pursuing Miller, and Miller agreeing to it would say he is in for the long haul.

MC1983 wrote:Anyone still think he is guilty? Putting money where his mouth is. I like the move.

Hank of sb wrote:

Bosy Billups wrote:The most meaningful statement addendum would be adding a $5 or even $10mm buyout clause. That insures the university in case needed to buyout an existing top tier coach, and deters others from pursuing Miller, and Miller agreeing to it would say he is in for the long haul.

The buyout thing you refer to has been flipped on its head!

Not one university wants to buyout Sean Miller for $500,000! Now you want to cement the guy to the UofA for $5 MM.

What!

You must be expecting super great things lie ahead........and no sanctions, to boot.

I think you got it COMPLETELY wrong.

The most "meaningful statement addendum" would have been to surrender the $5 MM bonus IF there was AN ISSUE.

NYCat wrote:I don't think the contract amendment means anything, either way. If this was his whole stock money or a majority of it it would mean something. Right now he keeps 3/4 million if anything does come up, so what?

Spaceman Spiff wrote:A coach who has won multiple national championships was fired over this.

Charged with what? The only legal theory for charges advanced is bribery of public officials (i.e., assistant coaches). Payments to players isn't illegal. That's why no one's charging $43,500 to Dennis Smith Jr. whether it happened or not. You don't see NCAA action because they've delayed investigation until after their committee makes recommendations at minimum.

You're also ignoring that over 20 programs had players repay under $250 benefits to preserve eligibility. This is a single agency. You legitimately think ASM was the only agency doing this?

Then there's direct money from shoe companies like Josh Jackson's mom getting monthly stipends from adidas and UA. That also didn't happen? What exactly is the motive by Dawkkns to make it look like Apples was pulling cash from shoe companies?

TheCat wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:A coach who has won multiple national championships was fired over this.

Charged with what? The only legal theory for charges advanced is bribery of public officials (i.e., assistant coaches). Payments to players isn't illegal. That's why no one's charging $43,500 to Dennis Smith Jr. whether it happened or not. You don't see NCAA action because they've delayed investigation until after their committee makes recommendations at minimum.

You're also ignoring that over 20 programs had players repay under $250 benefits to preserve eligibility. This is a single agency. You legitimately think ASM was the only agency doing this?

Then there's direct money from shoe companies like Josh Jackson's mom getting monthly stipends from adidas and UA. That also didn't happen? What exactly is the motive by Dawkkns to make it look like Apples was pulling cash from shoe companies?

Maybe you don't even read what you write. Your third sentence "The only legal theory is bribery of a public official". That is not the legal theory unless Book was a congressman or elected official.....Maybe you still don't understand what a public official is. Payment to player's is illegal, not for the players to take it, but to the university because it defrauds them of a player's eligibility which has value. That is what a large potion of the case is about.......Oh and let's not forget the fired coach has a $30M lawsuit pending...

tucsonsean wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:

DrWildcat wrote:Nova is made up of 4 and 5 star players (mostly 4 star) so its not like they don't have talent. The key is that their best players were guards. Guards win in March.

Not sure this is accurate. Was DiVincenzo even rated coming out of HS?

And Paschal is a transfer from Fordham.

DiV was a four star. https://247sports.com/player/donte-divincenzo-34135" target="_blank

Bosy Billups wrote:If Miller does great, he will be pursued, and as hinted during the season, there was a flirtation with Pitt. So that ship has sailed. What if Maryland opens up again? IDK, but if the smoke clears in 1-2 years and he turns this around (which he will do, watch, and get coach of the year in the conference next year as we head to a Sweet 16), they can get him for 500k. Where does that leave the university? Looking for donors to buyout another coach.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

NYCat wrote:

Respect for putting his money where his mouth is.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

TheCat wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:A coach who has won multiple national championships was fired over this.

Charged with what? The only legal theory for charges advanced is bribery of public officials (i.e., assistant coaches). Payments to players isn't illegal. That's why no one's charging $43,500 to Dennis Smith Jr. whether it happened or not. You don't see NCAA action because they've delayed investigation until after their committee makes recommendations at minimum.

You're also ignoring that over 20 programs had players repay under $250 benefits to preserve eligibility. This is a single agency. You legitimately think ASM was the only agency doing this?

Then there's direct money from shoe companies like Josh Jackson's mom getting monthly stipends from adidas and UA. That also didn't happen? What exactly is the motive by Dawkkns to make it look like Apples was pulling cash from shoe companies?

Maybe you don't even read what you write. Your third sentence "The only legal theory is bribery of a public official". That is not the legal theory unless Book was a congressman or elected official.....Maybe you still don't understand what a public official is. Payment to player's is illegal, not for the players to take it, but to the university because it defrauds them of a player's eligibility which has value. That is what a large potion of the case is about.......Oh and let's not forget the fired coach has a $30M lawsuit pending...

Your original post (are you the same as CatFan1Mil?) was citing the fact no more coaches have been implicated at s evidence that corruption is not widespread.

You're essentially arguing a theory by which the institution is defrauding itself when you say it could be illegal for a coach to pay a player. It is illegal for an non-university source to compromise a player's eligibility, but for university sources...well, why did the FBI separate complaints to not have the coaches included with that theory?

As far as me saying Book was bribed in a scheme to bribe a public official and you pointing out is actually a scheme to bribe an agent of the state...congratulations. You got me on that semantic point. He's actually a state agent, not a public official.

CatFanOneMil wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

TheCat wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:A coach who has won multiple national championships was fired over this.

Charged with what? The only legal theory for charges advanced is bribery of public officials (i.e., assistant coaches). Payments to players isn't illegal. That's why no one's charging $43,500 to Dennis Smith Jr. whether it happened or not. You don't see NCAA action because they've delayed investigation until after their committee makes recommendations at minimum.

You're also ignoring that over 20 programs had players repay under $250 benefits to preserve eligibility. This is a single agency. You legitimately think ASM was the only agency doing this?

Then there's direct money from shoe companies like Josh Jackson's mom getting monthly stipends from adidas and UA. That also didn't happen? What exactly is the motive by Dawkkns to make it look like Apples was pulling cash from shoe companies?

Maybe you don't even read what you write. Your third sentence "The only legal theory is bribery of a public official". That is not the legal theory unless Book was a congressman or elected official.....Maybe you still don't understand what a public official is. Payment to player's is illegal, not for the players to take it, but to the university because it defrauds them of a player's eligibility which has value. That is what a large potion of the case is about.......Oh and let's not forget the fired coach has a $30M lawsuit pending...

Your original post (are you the same as CatFan1Mil?) was citing the fact no more coaches have been implicated at s evidence that corruption is not widespread.

You're essentially arguing a theory by which the institution is defrauding itself when you say it could be illegal for a coach to pay a player. It is illegal for an non-university source to compromise a player's eligibility, but for university sources...well, why did the FBI separate complaints to not have the coaches included with that theory?

As far as me saying Book was bribed in a scheme to bribe a public official and you pointing out is actually a scheme to bribe an agent of the state...congratulations. You got me on that semantic point. He's actually a state agent, not a public official.

This is not me, I got bored of arguing since basically no one can prove anything either way...

DrWildcat wrote:Mark Schlabach returns ... http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket ... iolations#

But now he states "multiple sources" told ESPN that the $100,000 payment was discussed on wiretaps.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

DrWildcat wrote:Mark Schlabach returns ... http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket ... iolations#

But now he states "multiple sources" told ESPN that the $100,000 payment was discussed on wiretaps.

It's really hard to tell because that article is horrifically written, but I'm not sure Schlabach didn't just back off saying that his sources knew what was on the wire.

"FBI wiretaps intercepted telephone calls between Sean Miller and Dawkins, and multiple sources told ESPN that they discussed a $100,000 payment to freshman center DeAndre Ayton."

They appears to identify Miller and Dawkins, not the wiretaps. Read literally, the FBI intercepted wiretaps. Also, sources told ESPN Miller and Dawkins discussed payment.

Or maybe he can't compose a decent sentence. Read literally, he walked back the statement that the sources were discussing what was on the wiretaps.

TatetheGreat wrote:The ABOR vote is procedural. It's just to rubber stamp what was already agreed to over a month ago. And as someone pointed out in the comments section, Schlabach also got the score of the Buffalo game wrong. It was 89-68, not 84-68.

DrWildcat wrote:Mark Schlabach returns ... http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket ... iolations#

But now he states "multiple sources" told ESPN that the $100,000 payment was discussed on wiretaps.

KillerKlown wrote:

DrWildcat wrote:Mark Schlabach returns ... http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket ... iolations#

But now he states "multiple sources" told ESPN that the $100,000 payment was discussed on wiretaps.

Did they take the comment section down? I no longer see it on my screen. Mobile or desktop.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

DrWildcat wrote:Mark Schlabach returns ... http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket ... iolations#

But now he states "multiple sources" told ESPN that the $100,000 payment was discussed on wiretaps.

It's really hard to tell because that article is horrifically written, but I'm not sure Schlabach didn't just back off saying that his sources knew what was on the wire.

"FBI wiretaps intercepted telephone calls between Sean Miller and Dawkins, and multiple sources told ESPN that they discussed a $100,000 payment to freshman center DeAndre Ayton."

They appears to identify Miller and Dawkins, not the wiretaps. Read literally, the FBI intercepted wiretaps. Also, sources told ESPN Miller and Dawkins discussed payment.

Or maybe he can't compose a decent sentence. Read literally, he walked back the statement that the sources were discussing what was on the wiretaps.

CatHoops wrote:(link: https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/ ... ssion=true" target="_blank) washingtonpost.com/amphtml/sports…

But in February, prosecutors dropped all charges against Augustine, without explanation. Two weeks ago, in a court hearing in New York City, one of the lawyers on the case offered a possible reason why: After his arrest, Augustine apparently told federal prosecutors he never intended to pay the players and their families, and had kept the little money actually paid out in these deals for himself.

Earlier this year, federal prosecutors sent a letter to the remaining defendants summarizing some of things Augustine, former director of the Orlando-area 1Family basketball program, told them before they dropped the charges against him. The letter is part of discovery evidence in the case, and is filed under a protective order, barred from public release.

During a March 22 hearing, however, a lawyer representing Jim Gatto — an Adidas executive accused of agreeing to pay $150,000 if Augustine convinced 1Family star Nassir Little to commit to Miami — discussed the letter in open court.

“Mr. Augustine’s statement as summarized by the government . . . directly contradicts the allegations of the indictment . . . with respect to Mr. Little, Mr. Augustine had no intention of taking any money and handing it to Mr. Little,” said attorney Michael Schachter, according to a transcript.

“Mr. Augustine says that, in fact, he was not in on the scheme. In fact, there was not going to be any payment that was going to be made to Mr. Little. But effectively he was in his own scheme to rip off Mr. Gatto,” said Schachter, who was arguing the judge should force prosecutors to turn over transcripts or FBI agent notes of discussions with Augustine, because they may contain evidence favorable to Gatto and the other defendants.

That federal prosecutors apparently decided to drop charges against Augustine after he told them he hadn’t been brokering deals to steer recruits to specific college programs, but instead had kept money for himself, is a reminder of the unusual legal theory at the core of much of the criminal charges produced so far in the FBI probe.

Fraud is a crime that requires a victim. When Augustine was charged with wire fraud, the alleged victims were Miami and Louisville, prosecutors allege, as the schools could have been sanctioned by the NCAA, and sustained financial penalties, if it had come to light some of their players were profiting from their talents.

“So if the money doesn’t go to the athlete, the FBI and prosecutors are fine with it?” said Andy Schwarz, an economist and outspoken critic of the NCAA’s amateurism rules. “How does that make any sense?”.

NYCat wrote:

CatHoops wrote:(link: https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/ ... ssion=true" target="_blank) washingtonpost.com/amphtml/sports…

But in February, prosecutors dropped all charges against Augustine, without explanation. Two weeks ago, in a court hearing in New York City, one of the lawyers on the case offered a possible reason why: After his arrest, Augustine apparently told federal prosecutors he never intended to pay the players and their families, and had kept the little money actually paid out in these deals for himself.

Earlier this year, federal prosecutors sent a letter to the remaining defendants summarizing some of things Augustine, former director of the Orlando-area 1Family basketball program, told them before they dropped the charges against him. The letter is part of discovery evidence in the case, and is filed under a protective order, barred from public release.

During a March 22 hearing, however, a lawyer representing Jim Gatto — an Adidas executive accused of agreeing to pay $150,000 if Augustine convinced 1Family star Nassir Little to commit to Miami — discussed the letter in open court.

“Mr. Augustine’s statement as summarized by the government . . . directly contradicts the allegations of the indictment . . . with respect to Mr. Little, Mr. Augustine had no intention of taking any money and handing it to Mr. Little,” said attorney Michael Schachter, according to a transcript.

“Mr. Augustine says that, in fact, he was not in on the scheme. In fact, there was not going to be any payment that was going to be made to Mr. Little. But effectively he was in his own scheme to rip off Mr. Gatto,” said Schachter, who was arguing the judge should force prosecutors to turn over transcripts or FBI agent notes of discussions with Augustine, because they may contain evidence favorable to Gatto and the other defendants.

That federal prosecutors apparently decided to drop charges against Augustine after he told them he hadn’t been brokering deals to steer recruits to specific college programs, but instead had kept money for himself, is a reminder of the unusual legal theory at the core of much of the criminal charges produced so far in the FBI probe.

Fraud is a crime that requires a victim. When Augustine was charged with wire fraud, the alleged victims were Miami and Louisville, prosecutors allege, as the schools could have been sanctioned by the NCAA, and sustained financial penalties, if it had come to light some of their players were profiting from their talents.

“So if the money doesn’t go to the athlete, the FBI and prosecutors are fine with it?” said Andy Schwarz, an economist and outspoken critic of the NCAA’s amateurism rules. “How does that make any sense?”.

Unfortunately Book got $20k, of which $15K went to Quinerly (allegedly), kept $5 for himself and thus doesn't have an easy defence of 'I was never going to pay the recruits.'