Bear Down Wildcats

EDIT: Updated to include Wisconsin

Now that UNC has notched another championship, who ya got in your Top 15 from the last two decades?

1997/98 - 2016/17

Championships
4 - UConn
3 - North Carolina
3 - Duke
2 - Kentucky
2 - Florida
1 - Michigan St
1 - Kansas
1 - Louisville
1 - Syracuse
1 - Villanova
1 - Maryland

Finals Appearances
4 - North Carolina
4 - UConn
4 - Duke
3 - Kentucky
3 - Kansas
3 - Florida
2 - Michigan St
2 - Butler
1 - Louisville, Syracuse, Arizona, UCLA, Villanova, Gonzaga, Maryland, Ohio St, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin

Final Fours
7 - North Carolina
7 - Michigan St
5 - UConn
5 - Duke
5 - Kentucky
4 - Kansas
4 - Florida
3 - Louisville
3 - Syracuse
3 - UCLA
3 - Wisconsin
2 - Villanova
2 - Maryland
2 - Butler
1 - Arizona, Gonzaga, Texas, Marquette, Georgetown, Indiana, Michigan

Elite Eights
11 - North Carolina
10 - Kentucky
9 - Kansas
9 - Michigan St
8 - UConn
8 - Florida
7 - Duke
7 - Arizona
6 - Louisville
4 - Wisconsin
4 - Syracuse
4 - Ohio St
3 - UCLA
3 - Villanova
3 - Gonzaga
3 - Texas
3 - Xavier
2 - Butler, Maryland, Marquette, Michigan
1 - Georgetown, Indiana

Sweet Sixteens
15 - Duke
13 - Michigan St
12 - Kentucky
12 - Kansas
11 - North Carolina
11 - Arizona
10 - UCLA
10 - Wisconsin
9 - UConn
9 - Florida
9 - Syracuse
8 - Gonzaga
7 - Louisville
7 - Xavier
6 - Maryland
5 - Villanova, Butler, Texas
4 - Marquette, Indiana
3 - Georgetown, Michigan

North Carolina
Duke
Kentucky
UConn
Kansas
Michigan State
Louisville
Florida
Syracuse
Arizona
UCLA
Villanova
Michigan
Wisconsin
Butler
Gonzaga
Ohio St
Maryland

If someone had the time and energy they could do some sort of ranking with this by assigning point values. 20 points for championships, 15 for runner up, 10 for final 4, 5 for elite 8, 1 for sweet 16 etc.

scumdevils86 wrote:If someone had the time and energy they could do some sort of ranking with this by assigning point values. 20 points for championships, 15 for runner up, 10 for final 4, 5 for elite 8, 1 for sweet 16 etc.

I'm not sure if it even ends there. Things like tourney consistency, final AP, etc. matter too. On e of the great debates would be a school that had a few very, very successful years vs a school like Arizona, which makes the tourney every year, but only has one FF in that time period.

There are so many variables, which is why I think most lists wind up being almost a different strokes for different folks scenario.

Along with higher values for more recent appearances.

It's all about: "what have you done for me lately".

See: UCLA

scumdevils86 wrote:If someone had the time and energy they could do some sort of ranking with this by assigning point values. 20 points for championships, 15 for runner up, 10 for final 4, 5 for elite 8, 1 for sweet 16 etc.

Using this criteria, this is your top 20:

1 North Carolina 256
2 UConn 239
3 Duke 220
4 Kentucky 197
5 Michigan St 178
6 Florida 174
7 Kansas 162
8 Louisville 102
9 Syracuse 94
10 Villanova 75
11 Wisconsin 75
12 Arizona 71
13 Maryland 71
14 UCLA 70
15 Butler 65
16 Ohio St. 50
17 Gonzaga 48
18 Michigan 38
19 Indiana 34
20 Texas 30

Like Uconn for example. They've missed the tourney 5 times in the last 20 years and have 8 elite eights. We have 18 appearances and 7 elite eights.

But they have 4 championships to our 0.

the real dill wrote:

scumdevils86 wrote:If someone had the time and energy they could do some sort of ranking with this by assigning point values. 20 points for championships, 15 for runner up, 10 for final 4, 5 for elite 8, 1 for sweet 16 etc.

Using this criteria, this is your top 20:

1 North Carolina 256
2 UConn 239
3 Duke 220
4 Kentucky 197
5 Michigan St 178
6 Florida 174
7 Kansas 162
8 Louisville 102
9 Syracuse 94
10 Villanova 75
11 Arizona 71
12 Maryland 71
13 UCLA 70
14 Butler 65
15 Ohio St. 50
16 Gonzaga 48
17 Michigan 38
18 Indiana 34
19 Texas 30
20 Xavier 22

Yeah I think if you did this but then subtracted points for missed tourneys etc it might make it more accurate.

That list put together by dill and scum is pretty close to the current pecking order.

Where's Wisconsin?

scumdevils86 wrote:Like Uconn for example. They've missed the tourney 5 times in the last 20 years and have 8 elite eights. We have 18 appearances and 7 elite eights.

But they have 4 championships to our 0.

interesting to me that Coach K has one of the worst records in modern history in the Sweet 16. They've been knocked out in that round 8x in the last 20 years. In comparison, North Carolina has never been knocked out in the Sweet 16 in that time span.

NYCat wrote:Where's Wisconsin?

I need to double check my data set. Clearly an omission.

EDIT: I added Wisconsin to my previous posts.

-2 for missed tournaments
+1 for made tournaments
+1 for each tournament win
+2 for Sweet 16
+3 for Elite 8
+4 for Final 4
+5 for Runner-Up
+10 for Title

+1 for Any Preseason Top-10 Poll ranking
+2 for Any Top-10 Final Poll ranking
+3 for Any Week Ranked #1
+3 for Conference Titles (Regular or tournament)
+1 for Any All-American or major Award
+1 for Any NBA draft selection

This feels comprehensive. Includes tournament, conferences, player successes in college leading to awards and professional prospects.

Consistency should matter, so missing a tournament hurts more than simply making the tournament.

And player success is a flat value so that recruiting prowess doesn't stack toward the power programs as significantly. A good program that produces a number of 2nds is rewarded just as much for each as Kentucky churning out 5-stars.

NYCat wrote:Where's Wisconsin?

On my "Unkindly Go Fuck Yourself" list.

Mean Pomeroy Ranking 2002-2017 (top 25):

6.5 Kansas
8.1 Duke
15.9 Kentucky
16.4 Wisconsin
17.2 Louisville
18.8 Florida
18.9 Michigan State
23.3 North Carolina
25.0 Gonzaga
25.8 Arizona
26.1 Pittsburgh
26.9 Vilanova
27.1 Syracuse
28.4 Texas
30.4 Connecticut
33.9 Ohio State
34.1 Notre Dame
35.5 Georgetown
36.9 Xavier
38.9 Maryland
39.6 Illinois
40.6 Memphis
43.4 Cincinnati
44.9 Marquette
45.3 Oklahoma State

What's the list with jmj criteria?

CalStateTempe wrote:What's the list with jmj criteria?

It would take too long to compile for me now... maybe in the summer

scumdevils86 wrote:Like Uconn for example. They've missed the tourney 5 times in the last 20 years and have 8 elite eights. We have 18 appearances and 7 elite eights.

But they have 4 championships to our 0.

I've been certain for some time that either Jim Calhoun himself or some crazed UCONN fan sold their souls to the devil for the incoherent amount of luck that program has gotten in the tournament. Genuinely one team that won it all was excellent, while the others were good or meh.

# of appearances in the Final AP Poll in the "Modern Era" (1986-2017):

29 Duke
28 Kansas
26 North Carolina
24 Arizona
24 Kentucky
23 Syracuse
19 Louisville
17 Michigan State
17 UCLA
16 Connecticut
16 Oklahoma
15 Georgetown
15 Purdue
14 Illinois
14 Wisconsin
14 Florida
13 Indiana
13 Maryland
13 Cincinnati
12 Ohio State
12 Pittsburgh
12 Michigan
11 Utah
11 Xavier (OH)
11 Villanova

JMarkJohns wrote:-2 for missed tournaments
+1 for made tournaments
+1 for each tournament win
+2 for Sweet 16
+3 for Elite 8
+4 for Final 4
+5 for Runner-Up
+10 for Title

+1 for Any Preseason Top-10 Poll ranking
+2 for Any Top-10 Final Poll ranking
+3 for Any Week Ranked #1
+3 for Conference Titles (Regular or tournament)
+1 for Any All-American or major Award
+1 for Any NBA draft selection

This feels comprehensive. Includes tournament, conferences, player successes in college leading to awards and professional prospects.

Consistency should matter, so missing a tournament hurts more than simply making the tournament.

And player success is a flat value so that recruiting prowess doesn't stack toward the power programs as significantly. A good program that produces a number of 2nds is rewarded just as much for each as Kentucky churning out 5-stars.

I like this criteria but I would not give as much wight to #1 rankings in the regular year and I wouldnt put any weight in nba selections but also add conference tournament titles.

PHXCATS wrote:

JMarkJohns wrote:-2 for missed tournaments
+1 for made tournaments
+1 for each tournament win
+2 for Sweet 16
+3 for Elite 8
+4 for Final 4
+5 for Runner-Up
+10 for Title

+1 for Any Preseason Top-10 Poll ranking
+2 for Any Top-10 Final Poll ranking
+3 for Any Week Ranked #1
+3 for Conference Titles (Regular or tournament)
+1 for Any All-American or major Award
+1 for Any NBA draft selection

This feels comprehensive. Includes tournament, conferences, player successes in college leading to awards and professional prospects.

Consistency should matter, so missing a tournament hurts more than simply making the tournament.

And player success is a flat value so that recruiting prowess doesn't stack toward the power programs as significantly. A good program that produces a number of 2nds is rewarded just as much for each as Kentucky churning out 5-stars.

I like this criteria but I would not give as much wight to #1 rankings in the regular year and I wouldnt put any weight in nba selections but also add conference tournament titles.

Conference Tournament is there. NBA matters. Getting your players to the point they are coveted by billionaires means you're doing something right in your program. And being ranked #1 at any time is significant. Just because you don't end up the title winner doesn't mean you were the best team that year. You deserve credit for ranked success. If not a point for every week ranked #1, at least 2 points for any year you were ranked #1 for multiple weeks.

Merkin wrote:Along with higher values for more recent appearances.

It's all about: "what have you done for me lately".

See: UCLA

Like last title game appearance for the conference?