Sean Miller

[Chicat]

That would be my question to you Mr. Meow.

[Jwsisliving]

Temper tantrums

Give me a break. Personally I think we are real lucky to have him and I wouldn't want him to change anything just to spare some people's feelings. Maybe its just me but when I saw him get upset during the Washington game it fired me up and made me feel proud. That's the kind of coach I want. It didn't matter we were winning the game and it shouldn't have. I want a coach with fire and passion. Miller has the highest of standards. He pushes his players and demands the best of out of them(and himself). When he needs to rip into his team and try to get through to them I'm glad he doesn't have to dial it back and think "oh maybe i should take it easy. I wouldn't want to ruffles some feathers on the internet." Miller knows what he's doing, there's a method to the madness, and thank god he has the clout from years of winning where he can do things his way. And yes he should get angry when his team is playing like shit and I have absolutely no problem with him showing it.

[MrMeow]

That would be my question to you Mr. Meow.

That would depend on the situation. In my world, I am alerted to a possible pattern at twice. Three times and we have a pattern and I do something about it. Sometimes I pull the trigger at twice. With Miller you're on your own. You obviously know that is subjective, and you don't think there is one. Fine.

Listen, I am presently not concerned about Miller's behavior. I think it could have been an ongoing problem, but it's been nipped in the bud. No, Miller is not a dick like Bob Knight, but you don't have to be a dick to develop bad habits. Among other things, I'm glad Miller appears to be a good student of life, and has learned. Knight wasn't, and never did.

[Jwsisliving]

You keep talking like your job has any relation to what Miller is doing or like you know better how he should be conducting himself.

[Jwsisliving]

To make a comparison, I love the suns and I think they some have some talent and real potential for the future but i don't think they'll get over the hump until they get a coach that isn't all lovey-dovey, hippy-dippy, everybodyloveme mr.nice guy. it didn't work last year with Hornacek(not working for him either with the knicks) and it's not working this year either with Watson. I guarantee a less laid-back coach (like Sean Miller) would have them in the playoffs this year and next.

[Chicat]

That would be my question to you Mr. Meow.

That would depend on the situation. In my world, I am alerted to a possible pattern at twice. Three times and we have a pattern and I do something about it. Sometimes I pull the trigger at twice. With Miller you're on your own. You obviously know that is subjective, and you don't think there is one. Fine.

Listen, I am presently not concerned about Miller's behavior. I think it could have been an ongoing problem, but it's been nipped in the bud. No, Miller is not a dick like Bob Knight, but you don't have to be a dick to develop bad habits. Among other things, I'm glad Miller appears to be a good student of life, and has learned. Knight wasn't, and never did.

I know you're pegging some kind of behavior change on the fine he received from the Pac-12, but you do realize that happened before the Zeus incident, right? And you do realize he was fined because he knew the Pac-12 Director of Officials put a bounty on his head and told his crew specifically to give Miller a technical prior to the tournament?

So in essence it's like you're looking at a guy who was framed for a crime and saying, "See? He learned his lesson."

If you're not concerned about Miller's behavior, you have a funny way of showing it. And if it's been "nipped in the bud", how do you explain Sunday? When you say "pull the trigger" are you talking about firing someone? You think that Miller yelling at Zeus or Trier is cause for termination? I'm honestly at a loss right now trying to decipher how you really feel here. You're not presently concerned with his behavior and you think he's somehow changed, yet we're talking about this because of something that happened a few days ago and you'd fire someone for a pattern of "boorish behavior" due to just a couple of incidents.

Maybe try a more cohesive argument. If you want to say that publicly yelling at people 3 times in 7 years as a Division 1 coach is a pattern of behavior worthy of dismissal, that's fine. But be prepared to be laughed at fairly unmercifully.

[UAdevil]

^Yeah, that. This discussion is...odd to me.

[MrMeow]

That would be my question to you Mr. Meow.

That would depend on the situation. In my world, I am alerted to a possible pattern at twice. Three times and we have a pattern and I do something about it. Sometimes I pull the trigger at twice. With Miller you're on your own. You obviously know that is subjective, and you don't think there is one. Fine.

Listen, I am presently not concerned about Miller's behavior. I think it could have been an ongoing problem, but it's been nipped in the bud. No, Miller is not a dick like Bob Knight, but you don't have to be a dick to develop bad habits. Among other things, I'm glad Miller appears to be a good student of life, and has learned. Knight wasn't, and never did.

I know you're pegging some kind of behavior change on the fine he received from the Pac-12, but you do realize that happened before the Zeus incident, right? And you do realize he was fined because he knew the Pac-12 Director of Officials put a bounty on his head and told his crew specifically to give Miller a technical prior to the tournament?

So in essence it's like you're looking at a guy who was framed for a crime and saying, "See? He learned his lesson."

If you're not concerned about Miller's behavior, you have a funny way of showing it. And if it's been "nipped in the bud", how do you explain Sunday? When you say "pull the trigger" are you talking about firing someone? You think that Miller yelling at Zeus or Trier is cause for termination? I'm honestly at a loss right now trying to decipher how you really feel here. You're not presently concerned with his behavior and you think he's somehow changed, yet we're talking about this because of something that happened a few days ago and you'd fire someone for a pattern of "boorish behavior" due to just a couple of incidents.

Maybe try a more cohesive argument. If you want to say that publicly yelling at people 3 times in 7 years as a Division 1 coach is a pattern of behavior worthy of dismissal, that's fine. But be prepared to be laughed at fairly unmercifully.

1. Yes, I think Miller's behavior change is due to his $25K fine, whether or not it was rigged. Minus the rigged part, I've said that several times. I'm glad you finally picked it up. The fine had an indelible effect on him, in my opinion. So did the public airing of his explosion at Zeus, just in case you missed that.
2. Sunday was a terse speech given to all players. It was by design for effect, not a loss of personal control.
3. Other than that, you jump to a lot of bad conclusions posed as questions.
4. After all I've written, if you are still confused about how I really feel I can't help you, although I doubt you really are.
5. Laugh away. I'm tired of this.

[CatFanOneMil]

I am curious as to what the highly emotional conversation was when he called a time out during Kadeems free throws with only 30 seconds left in the game...I mean he called the time out DURING the free throws or did Romar call it?

At any rate he was rather animated in his conversation...I'd give a dollar to have been the the towel on Kobis shoulder as he watched with mild disinterest...

[Daryl Zero]

Abuse is a 14-year-old HS freshman nearly taking a bad hop off the face at shortstop in practice and instinctively shying away from the next grounder. That was followed by the varsity assistant coach who was hitting them calling him a pussy and telling him to get back to his position, only to hit repeated grounders over and over again as hard as he could (ex-minor leaguer and 6'6", so they were hard). That kid got blasted four or five times (had bruises for weeks) and with each swing the coach would say something like, "do you need a break? Go home and put on your mommy's panty hose if youre gonna be a pussy." The kid stuck through it til the bucket of balls was empty, probably got 20 balls hit at him like that.

That 14 year old was me. My dad was at that practice. When the abuse was over I walked into the dugout, threw my glove against the wall, and then packed up my shit and left early. I held in the tears until I left the field and was walking toward my dad, then I broke down and cried harder than just about any other time in my life. Told my dad, fuck this shit I quit. He wouldnt let me and that made me cry even harder. He said something like, not only are you not going to quit, you are going to tell him you want another bucket of balls. So thats what I did. And that coach looked at me in disbelief, so he hit me another 20 or so grounders, all at normal speed. Dont know if that was out of shock or respect.

The very next season, that assistant coach got the head coach/manager job at Sahuaro High School. In their last game of the season, they needed a win to get into the regional playoffs to qualify for state. I was a sophomore and as fate would have it, I got the ball on the mound. The whole game all i could hear was him chirping from the dugout to his team, "you going to let this scrawny little kid shut you down? You going to let this pussy sophomore beat you?" I had never faced anything like that in life, I would have killed him if I had a gun, but it just fueled me. I ended up throwing a 2-hitter and ended their season. After the game when we lined up to shake their hands at home plate, he told me I pitched a heck of a game and I told him to suck my dick. He didnt even respond. It wasnt til I got home that night when I fully realized my dad gave me more than just a "don't quit" message. I cant think of many more experiences in my childhood that had more of a profound effect on me.

If anyone here went to Sahuaro High School or followed local sports when this guy played there (late 70s to early 80s), you know exactly who the guy is.

Thanks for sharing that. Dirtbag coach and a dad who wouldn't let you quit. I think your dad helped you develop character but, if I were your dad, I would have told the coach that if he ever talked to you that way again, something was going to happen.

[Bangkok Wildcat]

Just watched the UW replay......and at the 40.8 second mark, CSM's laying into the team.....Man, I love his passion.....and I'd bet he has the respect of this team as well.

PS. Didn't notice any of the team daring to tell him to 'relax' during that coaching session either, lol.

I still love Zeus so much and wish him much success....but I look back at that 'controversial ' (to some only) game and have to laugh now....we've all made mistakes and that one was a classic one by Zeus.

Anyways, hope that and the sure to be intense practices this week have us prepared for our biggest road challenge to date. Bear Down on a big week for us!

[Puerco]

I find it odd that some of us expect our coach to remain a soulless automaton while coaching impressionable young MEN in a very emotional and stressful sport.

I want my coach to inspire his players. From my perspective it's impossible for a leader to be inspiring without showing genuine emotion on a regular basis. In this case, the players should know that the sport is as important to the coach as it is to them. Getting angry with players and officials is part of being bought-in. Expressing happiness and supporting players is also part. I think Sean Miller does both admirably.

[gumby]

I still don't understand why this is still a topic for discussion at this point. Each coach has their own style. Some are authoritarians and some are not. As long as he's not physically harming these players I don't see the issue, I just don't. I mean specifically in this incident he wasn't in any one player's face, he was intense, he was barking orders and expectations, he's making points. Not one player was looking at him like he was crazy or was giving off the impression they felt abused. Can we move on now?

Because it just happened. You can always move on. Why must we come with you? We're talking about something. It's a message board.

It seems like our discussion of CSM's public displays of anger are not in proportion to how often they happen.

I saw an interesting discussion. Tossed in my thoughts.

Coincidentally, that was Kaleb's justification too.

OK, that was good.

[gumby]

I remember plenty of rumblings right after the Miller/Zeus thing wherein people questioned whether recruits would want to come here again and whether their parents would want them coming her. Not soon after, we signed Kobi, Rawle and T-Ferg; Lauri (a guy who was already in for a culture shock coming from overseas) didn't decommit; and Miller landed the #1 prospect in the land. Reasons being: they all probably watched that video and laughed and said, "Damn coach was pissed", the parents and the players both have seen that before and know it is rather normal, and the players and parents want the very best and want to be/their kid to be pushed (and called a motherfucker if it is needed) and understand that pales in comparison to what they will hear from most NBA coaches, teammates, the fans on road games, and what they will be called online. Life is tough, most athletes would rather be over-prepared than under-prepared and risk coming up short on their dreams. Miller may not be right for every kid, but he is damn sure going to have you ready for the NBA if that is what you want. The culture itself is not right for every kid and parent either, but it certainly isn't going to change when there are millions of dollars on the line. Anything involving that kind of money, whether it is sports or Wall Street, is going to have a whole lot of ruthless and cutthroat behind it. Only the strong (usually) survive. There are exceptions, obviously. Sports are supposed to be fun, but the higher the level you get, you just have to accept that all this is coming with that fun if you keep playing. That will never change as long as athletes are being paid.

So glad I am a great distance from rumblings.

[Longhorned]

In garbage time with walk-ons on the floor, Lute would call timeout for something he didn't like, and absolutely take a walk-on to task in the huddle. It isn't about an individual player, or an individual game. It's about the system.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I find it odd that some of us expect our coach to remain a soulless automaton while coaching impressionable young MEN in a very emotional and stressful sport.

I want my coach to inspire his players. From my perspective it's impossible for a leader to be inspiring without showing genuine emotion on a regular basis. In this case, the players should know that the sport is as important to the coach as it is to them. Getting angry with players and officials is part of being bought-in. Expressing happiness and supporting players is also part. I think Sean Miller does both admirably.

I don't think you can remove the passion from Miller, and even if you could, you wouldn't want to. It really would steal his essence.

I don't think he has crossed any lines with it either. The Zeus thing was the closest he came, and even there, it was a public display of anger centered on one guy, but never was physical and Zeus was far from a passive party in it. Those things happen, and the fact that both of them moved past it speaks to a great degree as well.

Asking for a more sedate Sean Miller is like asking Phil Jackson to imitate Bobby Knight. Let him be who he is until and unless a line is crossed in a way that demands curtailing things.

[Longhorned]

Asking for a more sedate Sean Miller is like asking Phil Jackson to imitate Bobby Knight. Let him be who he is until and unless a line is crossed in a way that demands curtailing things.

Throwing a chair isn't as big a deal as they made it out to be; it's putting your hands on students where you cross the line. Sean Miller supposedly made some kind of rude gesture at a PAC-12 sign in Vegas that made a conference employee "uncomfortable." And went ballistic at the accompanying presser. That's the kind of thing that back up his calming of Kobi Simmons when he gets an unjust T.

[gumby]

I find it odd that some of us expect our coach to remain a soulless automaton while coaching impressionable young MEN in a very emotional and stressful sport.

I want my coach to inspire his players. From my perspective it's impossible for a leader to be inspiring without showing genuine emotion on a regular basis. In this case, the players should know that the sport is as important to the coach as it is to them. Getting angry with players and officials is part of being bought-in. Expressing happiness and supporting players is also part. I think Sean Miller does both admirably.

I find it odd that this was your takeaway.

Raise your hand if you're pro-soulless automaton.

[walk-on-wildcat]

I had 2 abusive coaches. 1 is my adopted father and the other I still think is a dick. My basketball coach went on a rampage on me for giving up a basket when we were up 80-40 at the end of the game because it hurt his defensive stats. The other my baseball coach who made me do push-ups in the middle of a baseball game for swinging at a pitch out of frustration over my head and grounding out to the pitcher right in front of my girlfriend and screaming at me "is your gf in the stands?" When you are 44 that is how it was done back then. It does motivate you and push you. Kids now a days cry when getting yelled at. I love my baseball coach like a father and will and has been there for me when I needed him and made me a better person and and lifted me up when I was down. My basketball coach tore me down spit in my face and was never there as a friend off the court. It's like a father yelling at there boy when he was caught smoking at 14. Mad but also give you a hug and telling you I love you afterwards. It's called mutual respect that I think is lacking in society nowadays. Discipline is good when it's for your own good. But I guess I'm just old school. Can't even spank a kid now for fear of children services getting involved. Wander how they think a belt would feel? It didn't kill me but it made me learn pretty quick who was in charge.

[Daryl Zero]

I find it odd that some of us expect our coach to remain a soulless automaton while coaching impressionable young MEN in a very emotional and stressful sport.

I want my coach to inspire his players. From my perspective it's impossible for a leader to be inspiring without showing genuine emotion on a regular basis. In this case, the players should know that the sport is as important to the coach as it is to them. Getting angry with players and officials is part of being bought-in. Expressing happiness and supporting players is also part. I think Sean Miller does both admirably.

I find it odd that this was your takeaway.

Raise your hand if you're pro-soulless automaton.

Yes. The alternatives to the status quo are always soulless automatons. Why is that?

[pokinmik]

I had 2 abusive coaches. 1 is my adopted father and the other I still think is a dick. My basketball coach went on a rampage on me for giving up a basket when we were up 80-40 at the end of the game because it hurt his defensive stats. The other my baseball coach who made me do push-ups in the middle of a baseball game for swinging at a pitch out of frustration over my head and grounding out to the pitcher right in front of my girlfriend and screaming at me "is your gf in the stands?" When you are 44 that is how it was done back then. It does motivate you and push you. Kids now a days cry when getting yelled at. I love my baseball coach like a father and will and has been there for me when I needed him and made me a better person and and lifted me up when I was down. My basketball coach tore me down spit in my face and was never there as a friend off the court. It's like a father yelling at there boy when he was caught smoking at 14. Mad but also give you a hug and telling you I love you afterwards. It's called mutual respect that I think is lacking in society nowadays. Discipline is good when it's for your own good. But I guess I'm just old school. Can't even spank a kid now for fear of children services getting involved. Wander how they think a belt would feel? It didn't kill me but it made me learn pretty quick who was in charge.

I'm 32 and have a son. I'd feel like the dumbest piece of shit on earth if I ever spanked him, let alone used a belt for 'discipline'. Fuck that caveman shit.

[Longhorned]

I had 2 abusive coaches. 1 is my adopted father and the other I still think is a dick. My basketball coach went on a rampage on me for giving up a basket when we were up 80-40 at the end of the game because it hurt his defensive stats. The other my baseball coach who made me do push-ups in the middle of a baseball game for swinging at a pitch out of frustration over my head and grounding out to the pitcher right in front of my girlfriend and screaming at me "is your gf in the stands?" When you are 44 that is how it was done back then. It does motivate you and push you. Kids now a days cry when getting yelled at. I love my baseball coach like a father and will and has been there for me when I needed him and made me a better person and and lifted me up when I was down. My basketball coach tore me down spit in my face and was never there as a friend off the court. It's like a father yelling at there boy when he was caught smoking at 14. Mad but also give you a hug and telling you I love you afterwards. It's called mutual respect that I think is lacking in society nowadays. Discipline is good when it's for your own good. But I guess I'm just old school. Can't even spank a kid now for fear of children services getting involved. Wander how they think a belt would feel? It didn't kill me but it made me learn pretty quick who was in charge.

I'm 32 and have a son. I'd feel like the dumbest piece of shit on earth if I ever spanked him, let alone used a belt for 'discipline'. Fuck that caveman shit.

I honestly had no idea coaches didn't yell at young players anymore. I remember it being effective in some cases where there was a method behind it. But there isn't always a method behind it; some men in kids' sports are just out of control with their own emotions. Miller definitely doesn't strike me as in the latter category, as a rule.

I'm glad to hear you don't spank your kid, Walk-on. Wouldn't be like you in any case. There's no doubt it teaches the kid who is in charge. But one problem is the kid loses respect for you if you do it. The hindrance isn't child protection services.

I have furniture items I'd be severely hesitant to take a belt to. So the thought of taking a belt to my own child is beyond my imagination.

[gumby]

So many soulless automatons, so few belts.

[ChooChooCat]

I had 2 abusive coaches. 1 is my adopted father and the other I still think is a dick. My basketball coach went on a rampage on me for giving up a basket when we were up 80-40 at the end of the game because it hurt his defensive stats. The other my baseball coach who made me do push-ups in the middle of a baseball game for swinging at a pitch out of frustration over my head and grounding out to the pitcher right in front of my girlfriend and screaming at me "is your gf in the stands?" When you are 44 that is how it was done back then. It does motivate you and push you. Kids now a days cry when getting yelled at. I love my baseball coach like a father and will and has been there for me when I needed him and made me a better person and and lifted me up when I was down. My basketball coach tore me down spit in my face and was never there as a friend off the court. It's like a father yelling at there boy when he was caught smoking at 14. Mad but also give you a hug and telling you I love you afterwards. It's called mutual respect that I think is lacking in society nowadays. Discipline is good when it's for your own good. But I guess I'm just old school. Can't even spank a kid now for fear of children services getting involved. Wander how they think a belt would feel? It didn't kill me but it made me learn pretty quick who was in charge.

I'm 32 and have a son. I'd feel like the dumbest piece of shit on earth if I ever spanked him, let alone used a belt for 'discipline'. Fuck that caveman shit.

I honestly had no idea coaches didn't yell at young players anymore. I remember it being effective in some cases where there was a method behind it. But there isn't always a method behind it; some men in kids' sports are just out of control with their own emotions. Miller definitely doesn't strike me as in the latter category, as a rule.

I'm glad to hear you don't spank your kid, Walk-on. Wouldn't be like you in any case. There's no doubt it teaches the kid who is in charge. But one problem is the kid loses respect for you if you do it. The hindrance isn't child protection services.

I have furniture items I'd be severely hesitant to take a belt to. So the thought of taking a belt to my own child is beyond my imagination.

Are there studies to suggest that spanking your children makes them lose respect for you? That's honestly the first time I've ever heard that or heard that even be suggested as a fact. I agree completely on not using the belt or any object to discipline a child, but I have a hard time finding issue with spanking a child when they deserve it, up to a certain age of course. I was spanked when the situation called for it and I certainly don't remember ever losing respect for my parents when that occurred and I'd like to think I turned out ok in the end.

[Daryl Zero]

So many soulless automatons, so few belts.

I was hit by my father including being whipped with a belt. I resolved never to hit my kids unless it was a matter of life and death.
In fact, most of my strategy of raising my kids was to do the opposite of what my parents did.

I almost had to get to that point when my son thought it was funny for a short period to dart away from us including in situations he could have been hit by a car.
Fortunately I never had to get to that point.

[baconus66]

I had 2 abusive coaches. 1 is my adopted father and the other I still think is a dick. My basketball coach went on a rampage on me for giving up a basket when we were up 80-40 at the end of the game because it hurt his defensive stats. The other my baseball coach who made me do push-ups in the middle of a baseball game for swinging at a pitch out of frustration over my head and grounding out to the pitcher right in front of my girlfriend and screaming at me "is your gf in the stands?" When you are 44 that is how it was done back then. It does motivate you and push you. Kids now a days cry when getting yelled at. I love my baseball coach like a father and will and has been there for me when I needed him and made me a better person and and lifted me up when I was down. My basketball coach tore me down spit in my face and was never there as a friend off the court. It's like a father yelling at there boy when he was caught smoking at 14. Mad but also give you a hug and telling you I love you afterwards. It's called mutual respect that I think is lacking in society nowadays. Discipline is good when it's for your own good. But I guess I'm just old school. Can't even spank a kid now for fear of children services getting involved. Wander how they think a belt would feel? It didn't kill me but it made me learn pretty quick who was in charge.

I'm 32 and have a son. I'd feel like the dumbest piece of shit on earth if I ever spanked him, let alone used a belt for 'discipline'. Fuck that caveman shit.

I honestly had no idea coaches didn't yell at young players anymore. I remember it being effective in some cases where there was a method behind it. But there isn't always a method behind it; some men in kids' sports are just out of control with their own emotions. Miller definitely doesn't strike me as in the latter category, as a rule.

I'm glad to hear you don't spank your kid, Walk-on. Wouldn't be like you in any case. There's no doubt it teaches the kid who is in charge. But one problem is the kid loses respect for you if you do it. The hindrance isn't child protection services.

I have furniture items I'd be severely hesitant to take a belt to. So the thought of taking a belt to my own child is beyond my imagination.

Are there studies to suggest that spanking your children makes them lose respect for you? That's honestly the first time I've ever heard that or heard that even be suggested as a fact. I agree completely on not using the belt or any object to discipline a child, but I have a hard time finding issue with spanking a child when they deserve it, up to a certain age of course. I was spanked when the situation called for it and I certainly don't remember ever losing respect for my parents when that occurred.

I think the studies are about as conclusive that corporal punishment has a negative effect on kids as they are that man caused climate change is a thing. You can choose to believe the other side but it requires saying "nah pretty sure I know better than 97% of experts on the subject".

Not sure if there are any studies directly correlated to respect, but corporal punishment can cause all kinds of other negative things for kids.

[walk-on-wildcat]

I had 2 abusive coaches. 1 is my adopted father and the other I still think is a dick. My basketball coach went on a rampage on me for giving up a basket when we were up 80-40 at the end of the game because it hurt his defensive stats. The other my baseball coach who made me do push-ups in the middle of a baseball game for swinging at a pitch out of frustration over my head and grounding out to the pitcher right in front of my girlfriend and screaming at me "is your gf in the stands?" When you are 44 that is how it was done back then. It does motivate you and push you. Kids now a days cry when getting yelled at. I love my baseball coach like a father and will and has been there for me when I needed him and made me a better person and and lifted me up when I was down. My basketball coach tore me down spit in my face and was never there as a friend off the court. It's like a father yelling at there boy when he was caught smoking at 14. Mad but also give you a hug and telling you I love you afterwards. It's called mutual respect that I think is lacking in society nowadays. Discipline is good when it's for your own good. But I guess I'm just old school. Can't even spank a kid now for fear of children services getting involved. Wander how they think a belt would feel? It didn't kill me but it made me learn pretty quick who was in charge.

I'm 32 and have a son. I'd feel like the dumbest piece of shit on earth if I ever spanked him, let alone used a belt for 'discipline'. Fuck that caveman shit.

I have a 14 year old son and I never spanked him ever. My point is that I don't have nightmares about it and that's the old fashioned way of discipline. And it was my mom who used a belt on me because that's how she was brought up. She would chase me around the house with it. I survived without it traumatizing me. I also used to get the "switch" as well on my grandpa's farm as well. Not like I got punched out although I got slapped in the face by my mom but I didn't get burned with a cigarette or anything. It never hurt me growing up. Sometimes I think that kind of discipline should be used on certain people when a time out or grounding doesn't do anything or taking away their phone or iPad or laptop. Sometimes there is just a failure to communicate with some youth. Like my gf's 12 year old daughter who cost her 10,000 in legal fees for making shit up about abuse that never happened because she is a spoiled brat who didn't get her way for once. And she will likely end up pregnant in jail or dead if she doesn't get it. That little girl always got her way abuses her mom lacks any respect to anyone gets anything she wants and is a sociopath. And therapy never did anything for her. Master manipulator at age 12. Not good.

[rgdeuce]

That would be my question to you Mr. Meow.

That would depend on the situation. In my world, I am alerted to a possible pattern at twice. Three times and we have a pattern and I do something about it. Sometimes I pull the trigger at twice. With Miller you're on your own. You obviously know that is subjective, and you don't think there is one. Fine.

Listen, I am presently not concerned about Miller's behavior. I think it could have been an ongoing problem, but it's been nipped in the bud. No, Miller is not a dick like Bob Knight, but you don't have to be a dick to develop bad habits. Among other things, I'm glad Miller appears to be a good student of life, and has learned. Knight wasn't, and never did.

Shouldn't "pattern" depend on what the behavior is? Eg:

- A man cheats on his spouse three times in eight years. I would say that is a pattern of adulterous behavior.
- A man speeds three times (no citation) in eight years. Has he shown a pattern of speeding?

Look big picture. Look at how many coaches lose their shit in games. Think of everything that is on the line, how intense games are, how fired up a coach gets. Think of how easy it is when you are amped up to take it to the next level. There is a reason any cop will tell you the most dangerous calls they get are domestic violence calls. That is because they are going into a situation that has already escalated into code red, so the chances of something REALLY bad happening are high.

And you're nuts if you think it has been nipped in the bud. Miller shares the same intensity that I have, that my father has, and what his father had. That never goes away. You learn to curb the "extreme" the best you can and learn different techniques to limit how often that comes out. Considering the fact that Miller is now in his eighth season here and all we have is the Larry Scott thing and the Zeus thing. I believe he has had more than one season without a technical foul. I can't think of any ejections, can you? I would say Miller has already learned how to deal with this. If anything, that is remarkable for someone like him in his profession. And Miller's extreme still pales in comparison to many coaches, and his extreme is actually quite normal if you have been around enough coaches in your life.

[pokinmik]

Roger that WoW, I respect your history and I'm glad you made it thru to the other side and have a good relationship with your son. I didn't mean to be harsh but from your original post I misinterpreted and thought you were basically saying society is soft for frowning upon spanking or belts. My bad. Have a good one.

[Spaceman Spiff]

It's an impossible standard to hold Miller to never getting angry enough to make a mistake or not be 100% controlled. Or, I live in a weird personal bubble. Everyone I know has, on occasion, overreacted at work and been angrier than they probably should have been.

Heck, I melt down and scream at the TV during Wildcat games all the time in ways that would get me T'ed up if I was on the bench, and I'm a fan only.

To channel my inner Allen Iverson "We're talking about three times in eight years. Three. Not in the teens. Three times." Expecting someone not to slip up emotionally once every two years at a high stress job...well, I may just live in a different world. Miller's incidents haven't been physically abusive or anything beyond just being really pissed. I just see people hit that point more often than Miller at my work.

[MountainCat]

Oh the good old days!

[rgdeuce]

I had 2 abusive coaches. 1 is my adopted father and the other I still think is a dick. My basketball coach went on a rampage on me for giving up a basket when we were up 80-40 at the end of the game because it hurt his defensive stats. The other my baseball coach who made me do push-ups in the middle of a baseball game for swinging at a pitch out of frustration over my head and grounding out to the pitcher right in front of my girlfriend and screaming at me "is your gf in the stands?" When you are 44 that is how it was done back then. It does motivate you and push you. Kids now a days cry when getting yelled at. I love my baseball coach like a father and will and has been there for me when I needed him and made me a better person and and lifted me up when I was down. My basketball coach tore me down spit in my face and was never there as a friend off the court. It's like a father yelling at there boy when he was caught smoking at 14. Mad but also give you a hug and telling you I love you afterwards. It's called mutual respect that I think is lacking in society nowadays. Discipline is good when it's for your own good. But I guess I'm just old school. Can't even spank a kid now for fear of children services getting involved. Wander how they think a belt would feel? It didn't kill me but it made me learn pretty quick who was in charge.

Making someone do pushups for chasing a pitch out of the strike zone is rather ridiculous.

[rgdeuce]

Re: Spanking. I was raised by a southern woman and got my ass beat a lot. If I used bad language or talked back I'd get slapped, Tabasco sauce in my mouth or my mouth washed out with soap. My sisters all got the same, to a lesser degree (I was the first born). I have spanked my oldest, but it is a last resort and I have only done it a handful of times. I don't think spanking in it of itself is detrimental at all, but I don't offer anything but the anecdotal evidence of myself, my sisters, and some friends. Plenty of us know great people who got their asses beat at home and in school. I personally believe the person holding the belt is responsible for whether it is a good or bad thing (eg: overkill, if the person is abusive in nature, if done out of frustration rather than for discipline purposes, etc.).

[walk-on-wildcat]

I had 2 abusive coaches. 1 is my adopted father and the other I still think is a dick. My basketball coach went on a rampage on me for giving up a basket when we were up 80-40 at the end of the game because it hurt his defensive stats. The other my baseball coach who made me do push-ups in the middle of a baseball game for swinging at a pitch out of frustration over my head and grounding out to the pitcher right in front of my girlfriend and screaming at me "is your gf in the stands?" When you are 44 that is how it was done back then. It does motivate you and push you. Kids now a days cry when getting yelled at. I love my baseball coach like a father and will and has been there for me when I needed him and made me a better person and and lifted me up when I was down. My basketball coach tore me down spit in my face and was never there as a friend off the court. It's like a father yelling at there boy when he was caught smoking at 14. Mad but also give you a hug and telling you I love you afterwards. It's called mutual respect that I think is lacking in society nowadays. Discipline is good when it's for your own good. But I guess I'm just old school. Can't even spank a kid now for fear of children services getting involved. Wander how they think a belt would feel? It didn't kill me but it made me learn pretty quick who was in charge.

Making someone do pushups for chasing a pitch out of the strike zone is rather ridiculous.

And the frustration came because I played CF that game and the sun was setting right behind the plate and couldn't pick up the ball off the bat in the first inning twice. Like it was playing phantom ball. So my coach calls time out and runs out to center field to belittle me. So the bottom of the inning batting 3rd I was so pissed I swung at a pitch literally over my head. And he knew my trophy GF was there watching because it was at her school. And wanted to humiliate me. We won 21-2 but losing 2 balls in the sun caused those runs. Nothing more scary then to wonder where the ball is hit and everyone running towards you. It was his 400 win as a coach and as the captain I was going to call the paper to get him an article written but said fuck it after that. But it's all forgiven because he literally saved my life. That's a coach and mentor. Both of my coaches hated us having girlfriends. It was a "distraction ".

[walk-on-wildcat]

Roger that WoW, I respect your history and I'm glad you made it thru to the other side and have a good relationship with your son. I didn't mean to be harsh but from your original post I misinterpreted and thought you were basically saying society is soft for frowning upon spanking or belts. My bad. Have a good one.

No problem bro. I wasn't offended! My mom would chase me around with a belt and once I caught it coming towards my face. Thank God I have good reflexes because I caught the belt buckle.lol Then I ripped it out of her hand. That is all she knew how to discipline. My dad on the other hand would act like he would beat me but never did to appease my mom. And we settled it by talking and laughing afterwards.

[Merkin]

[PHXCATS]

He thinks you can lose money by winning a bet a Vegas so not sure he is the best to judge.

[EVCat]

Kids now a days cry when getting yelled at.

The original post is pretty awesome, so I feel somewhat bad parsing this one quote, but the general idea gets me everytime. I hear this anecdotally all the time, how this generation gets participation trophies and is soft, etc...

Yet I don't see it at all. Youth sports is FAR more competitive today than in the 80's.. Kids are training 12 months, playing multiple games, playing through pain and, sometimes, injury. Trying to fit 3 hours of homework, because lazy 70's born parents equate a ton of homework with good education, in between club or school practice. Every game my kid advances in state playoffs is 4 less days of break she is going to get between varsity and club...we are down to maybe a week off. She has been going since August 1 with few breaks, and with practice every day of the school week and Saturday mornings since November. She has been doing this (minus school ball, but club just continued through the winter in those ages) since she was 9, playing since she was 4.

AAU basketball has kids going 300+ days a year. Coaches yell, use mind games, etc. I looked at a text string on my kids phone last year where there was a period where school practice and club overlapped (club shuts down when school games begin), the school coach was a coach at the club, and they were both whining and manipulating her to go to their practice when the two actually overlapped in a day...grown people trying to mentally work over a 15 year old girl with threats and pleas, to get one more practice out of her (otherwise, she was doing 2 hours at school, coming home, trying to eat after heavy conditioning from school ball early in the season then do homework then off to 7:30 practice for club for 2 hours).

And her experience is not unique. Coaches bench jockeying a 10 year old girl in a tournament, calling her fat, sending girls from their team who went to school with her after her to "shake her up" before a tournament we knew would end with the two of us in the finals (not my kid...I am still walking the streets a free man, so that tells you it wasn't my kid). That is an extreme, but variations of that go on all the time.

Kids aren't the problem. Adults are. 100%. These kids I see are tough SOBs, hardened by watching adults act like fools...

[Puerco]

I find it odd that some of us expect our coach to remain a soulless automaton while coaching impressionable young MEN in a very emotional and stressful sport.

I want my coach to inspire his players. From my perspective it's impossible for a leader to be inspiring without showing genuine emotion on a regular basis. In this case, the players should know that the sport is as important to the coach as it is to them. Getting angry with players and officials is part of being bought-in. Expressing happiness and supporting players is also part. I think Sean Miller does both admirably.

I find it odd that this was your takeaway.

Raise your hand if you're pro-soulless automaton.

There's as much hyperbole above as there is below.

Ha ha. How about because our successful and otherwise admirable coach's occasional boorish behavior is not acceptable to some, while others overlook obvious flaws in deference to winning, thus all the posts?

I suspect if Miller's win/loss record were poor no one would be defending his temper tantrums. Do you see anyone defending RichRod's sideline behavior? Do you see a lot criticism of it? Do you think you would if he were winning a lot?

I like Miller for all the reasons you cite, and I'm glad we have him. I'm just separating one (winning) from the other (boorish behavior), that's all.

Frankly, in the name of UA basketball success, I'm glad Larry Scott levied a significant fine on Miller. This stuff can sometimes take on a life of it's own if not checked. Bob Knight? There is a significant positive difference in Miller's sideline behavior since that fine (Ha, I just happened to think, in that one Miller was Kaleb and Scott was Miller). I also doubt we ever see another Zeus-like incident. I'm sure Miller didn't enjoy the national negative publicity, replete with videos, of that.

[walk-on-wildcat]

Kinda my original point. Romar is a very nice Christian man. Met him and talked to him before a game once. I really like the man and respect him. But not sure if I would want him as my basketball coach. Unless you can't take the heat. Basketball is an intense game and in the heat of the moment you need some fire under your ass sometimes. A motivator not a pat your butt guy and say good job you did your best. Sometimes men need an ass chewing to get something through their heads. And they are MEN! Good guys don't always win. It may take an asshole to get the point across. I have no problem with Coach Miller yelling at the players. He is as nice as a man you will meet off the court. That's a passionate basketball coach who wants to win and if you cry because you get yelled at then you need to play a different game like lacrosse. I wouldn't want anything other. My basketball coach broke his hand punching a locker at halftime of a game. He was also a very very successful coach.

[Daryl Zero]

Kinda my original point. Romar is a very nice Christian man. Met him and talked to him before a game once. I really like the man and respect him. But not sure if I would want him as my basketball coach. Unless you can't take the heat. Basketball is an intense game and in the heat of the moment you need some fire under your ass sometimes. A motivator not a pat your butt guy and say good job you did your best. Sometimes men need an ass chewing to get something through their heads. And they are MEN! Good guys don't always win. It may take an asshole to get the point across. I have no problem with Coach Miller yelling at the players. He is as nice as a man you will meet off the court. That's a passionate basketball coach who wants to win and if you cry because you get yelled at then you need to play a different game like lacrosse. I wouldn't want anything other. My basketball coach broke his hand punching a locker at halftime of a game. He was also a very very successful coach.

And maybe I'm wrong but a lot of what happens on the court during games has to do with practices and attitude. A coach can do other things than yelling such as make players run or push ups etc if he thinks they are lollygagging.

I remember Steve Kerr last year during a tight game telling his team during a late time out that he looked forward to them being challenged and that it was fun. I couldn't find that time out but here's another one:



What I don't understand is the idea that a coach cannot motivate players without yelling. I absolutely reject that idea. Now you may have players that do not respond unless you yell at them but I could tell you that I would never want those kind of players. There are all sorts of alternative ways to motivate kids and people.

[gumby]

It's an impossible standard to hold Miller to never getting angry enough to make a mistake or not be 100% controlled. Or, I live in a weird personal bubble. Everyone I know has, on occasion, overreacted at work and been angrier than they probably should have been.

Heck, I melt down and scream at the TV during Wildcat games all the time in ways that would get me T'ed up if I was on the bench, and I'm a fan only.

To channel my inner Allen Iverson "We're talking about three times in eight years. Three. Not in the teens. Three times." Expecting someone not to slip up emotionally once every two years at a high stress job...well, I may just live in a different world. Miller's incidents haven't been physically abusive or anything beyond just being really pissed. I just see people hit that point more often than Miller at my work.

Agree, but don't see much acknowledgment that any of the incidences are "slip-ups." Three in eight years. Great record. But some want to argue for perfection, it seems. So they rationalize even those rare instances.

[gumby]

Regarding spanking, it's like smoking. Many people live long lives, though they smoke. Many are fine after they were spanked. But I wouldn't regard either as evidence that it's a good idea.

My philosophy: Spanking is what you do to make up for what you failed to do. There are no shortcuts.

[Spaceman Spiff]

It's an impossible standard to hold Miller to never getting angry enough to make a mistake or not be 100% controlled. Or, I live in a weird personal bubble. Everyone I know has, on occasion, overreacted at work and been angrier than they probably should have been.

Heck, I melt down and scream at the TV during Wildcat games all the time in ways that would get me T'ed up if I was on the bench, and I'm a fan only.

To channel my inner Allen Iverson "We're talking about three times in eight years. Three. Not in the teens. Three times." Expecting someone not to slip up emotionally once every two years at a high stress job...well, I may just live in a different world. Miller's incidents haven't been physically abusive or anything beyond just being really pissed. I just see people hit that point more often than Miller at my work.

Agree, but don't see much acknowledgment that any of the incidences are "slip-ups." Three in eight years. Great record. But some want to argue for perfection, it seems. So they rationalize even those rare instances.

I really only see the Zeus incident as a debatable one, but others would count more. With Zeus, I absolutely think Miller had reason to do what he did, but he could have done it in a more directed way. Miller clearly was angry and just shot that anger at Zeus. In a perfect world he would have done a little less venting without losing the point of an immediate correction of Zeus.

For me, that's it. The degree of one incident. The guy isn't perfect, but there is no issue.

[Merkin]

Raise and extension coming: http://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcat ... aign=share" target="_blank

[baconus66]

Raise and extension coming: http://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcat ... aign=share" target="_blank

Doesn't really mean much, because of the limitations on contracts by ABOR they give an extension and raise every year or two to pump it back up to 5 years.

[HiCat]

Raise and extension coming: http://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcat ... aign=share" target="_blank

Arizona Wildcats basketball fans may sleep better Thursday night if Sean Miller's proposed two-year contract extension and raise are approved.

The quicker the better. Get it done.

[ASUHATER!]

But he doesn't run a zone...fire him!

[UAEebs86]

Raise and extension coming: http://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcat ... aign=share" target="_blank

Doesn't really mean much, because of the limitations on contracts by ABOR they give an extension and raise every year or two to pump it back up to 5 years.

I saw that a state legislator proposed having separate Board of Regents for all three schools. I'll try to find the link and post later.


That would be good for us, no?

[Jefe]

Thankfully something relevant to Sean Miller was posted. Focus people...