Conference Realignment

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Mon Feb 13, 2023 11:38 am

So I guess the moving target is, what number does Amazon have to provide to keep this conference alive?

If we could get 35m(from joint the B12) with the exposure of the talking heads I wouldn’t take less than 40m from our next contract. I just highly doubt we are anywhere near that number.

At least by April we should know where we are headed. I hate that sports oblivion is potentially one of the destinations

84Cat · Post by **84Cat** » Mon Feb 13, 2023 12:02 pm

Don't forget that Disney is in the midst of a reorg. I think this works against the Pac10/12. They aren't going to pay top dollar at this point to keep the Pac on their channels. It's just bad timing for us:

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/02/08/disney- ... ation.html

CardiacCats97 · Post by **CardiacCats97** » Mon Feb 13, 2023 12:12 pm

Our conference affiliation is obviously not a choice between streaming vs. non-streaming.

It’s looking more and more like the choice is between having 90% of our games having to be streamed through a non-sports platform where there will be zero visibility to those who aren’t diehards, and being somewhere in the vicinity of 50% streaming on the best known sports platform in the world and the rest of our games being featured over the air on channels where sports enthusiasts regularly watch.

The choice is crystal clear to me.

Catintheheat · Post by **Catintheheat** » Mon Feb 13, 2023 12:15 pm

I stream everything. I got rid of CATV long ago. Cable is just too expensive. Even the streaming services are becoming expensive. Right now Sling is the best option for the Pac-12 network and cost. YouTube TV just bought the rights to NFL Sunday Ticket. So Sunday Ticket is going to e totally streaming on YouTube.

84Cat · Post by **84Cat** » Mon Feb 13, 2023 2:16 pm

Everything's fine

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Mon Feb 13, 2023 3:00 pm

Such a joke. 1000% chance Oregon and Washington joins the B1G at some point and that there is a contraction of the conferences in the next several years yet we are sitting here letting other schools determine our fate. This is idiocy

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Mon Feb 13, 2023 3:10 pm

azcat49 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 3:00 pm Such a joke. 1000% chance Oregon and Washington joins the B1G at some point and that there is a contraction of the conferences in the next several years yet we are sitting here letting other schools determine our fate. This is idiocy

Why? Because it is not what you want to hear?

Oregon and Washington dont bring enough money to make it worth it in the Big Ten.

It would be foolish to not know the final offer and all expansion opportunities before moving to the Big 12

Seems more and more likely a move to the Big 12 is best for Arizona but again it would be absolutely stupid to not know.

And dont give me this stuff about Heeke and Robins not having the courage to move conferences. I absolutely believe they will move if that is the best option. moving before the final offer would not have been the right move

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Mon Feb 13, 2023 3:12 pm

This statements helps in negations with the networks and streamers (not much but it does help a little)

UA is not committed to this statement. I just helps (my a very small amount) get the most possible money offered to the PAC.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Mon Feb 13, 2023 3:25 pm

No because it’s crystal clear what will happen. Not a chance in the world the B1G leave the LA schools out there on an island. Just a matter of time before they pounce and give the LA schools some travel partners.

If you think after 5-7 years (if it takes that long) the PAC survives with the remainder schools then you are smoking some good stuff brother.

It’s crystal clear that there is going to be far greater contraction in college football going forward. The ACC will have its top teams pulled into the B1G and SEC and then maybe you will see a third conference with the BIG12 and the remaining teams in the ACC. Meanwhile we will be dragging our knuckles out west with no leverage as we lost our chance when we had it

Also, how does that statement help with leveraging the networks. Fox wants nothing to do with us. ESPIN has contracts with the SEC, ACC and the MWC. There are no bidders in network TV. As for the streamers, it’s really probably one and that’s Amazon.

AzCatFan2 · Post by **AzCatFan2** » Mon Feb 13, 2023 3:38 pm

ACC media rights deal won't expire until 2036, and the contract seems iron clad. If it weren't, Clemson and FSU would have sought SEC admittance by this point. This buys us some time, and no need to worry about ACC teams changing conferences.

I agree that the LA schools will want travel partners, but are UW and Oregon $60 million schools? That's likely their max value, so they don't add to the B1G's pot. The B1G also seems hesitant to strike a fatal blow to the PAC. Taking the LA schools put us on life support, but the B1G won't pull the plus just yet. They aren't expanding until the next round of media negotiations, unless the PAC disbands, and they can get UW and Oregon on the cheap with partial payments.

Meanwhile, we should absolutely see what the PAC contract number is. If it's more than the BIG12's number, we should take it, even it includes a lot more streaming. Streaming live sports is the future of all college sports, and it's better to bank the extra money now. If the PAC can't bring in the extra money, then we should go BIG12.

My guess is $40 million is the number Kliavkoff wants to reach. Given the extra $100 million the BIG12 now has in it's pocket, adding the 4-corner schools could probably increase the number per school to closer to $35 million. Again, just a guess.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Mon Feb 13, 2023 3:42 pm

Blah blah blah, your knob slobbering this deal is just crazy. This conference is toast. The NW schools and probably the Bay Area schools will be gone soon to the B1G and we will hope for that invite to the Big 12. We wouldn’t have to hope if we just pulled the trigger now on the FREAKING INEVITABLE OUTCOME

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Mon Feb 13, 2023 3:53 pm

Why would the Big Ten Fox CBS and NBC pay twice the amount than they are worth for Oregon Washington and the Bay schools?

AzCatFan2 · Post by **AzCatFan2** » Mon Feb 13, 2023 4:02 pm

The B1G expands to the Bay Area and the PAC NW to keep the LA schools happy with travel partners. That's not happening this round, unless the BIG12 delivers the death blow by taking the 4-corner PAC schools. The B1G can then pick up the pieces by offering partial payments for the 4 Bay and bigger PAC NW schools, and getting them at cost.

Meanwhile, nobody knows the future for sure. We don't know if UCLA will like being an also-ran in football, and traveling several time zones for every away game except for USC. How will that effect their basketball, softball, and baseball programs? That TBD. In short, there is no absolute guarantee that the B1G expands to include more western teams in the future.

Also, if, and this is an if, we can get more money by staying the PAC, that's an advantage for us. More money is always preferred. And, in five years, when contract negotiations come around again, the ACC schools will still be stuck for another 7/8 years, and we'll still be the best option for BIG12 expansion.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Mon Feb 13, 2023 4:11 pm

I will give you credit for standing your ground, that’s for sure.

I think if those numbers don’t come in like you think that the B1G reassesses and expands by 2024. Then the PAC is done anyway.

I am just not confident that this conference will get a deal for 40m each to keep it intact. This show of solidarity is simply because the upheaval from members is causing weakness in the Commissioners negotiations

KillerKlown · Post by **KillerKlown** » Mon Feb 13, 2023 4:32 pm

PHXCATS wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 3:12 pm This statements helps in negations with the networks and streamers (not much but it does help a little)

UA is not committed to this statement. I just helps (my a very small amount) get the most possible money offered to the PAC.

How does it help in negotiations? This statement wasn't ment for the ones that are in negotiations. They already have all the information they need. You think they need a public statement to know where pieces stand? These are billion dollar companies they don't need help from a small fry like the pac. And if it was meant for the tv/streamers then we're screwed.

And even if it was how would it help when as you say schools aren't commited to that statement? It's a direct contradiction. It's a lie of a statement.

GlobalCat · Post by **GlobalCat** » Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:00 pm

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 8:19 am
GlobalCat wrote: ↑Sat Feb 11, 2023 6:31 pm
ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Sat Feb 11, 2023 11:44 am
GlobalCat wrote: ↑Sat Feb 11, 2023 11:21 am
ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Sat Feb 11, 2023 9:42 am Again spouting about macro trends of Pay TV. What's the macro trend for sports fans? I'll give you a hint, it's not heading towards streaming any time soon. The macro trend says cable TV is dying for the non-sports fan, but it is beyond live and well for the sports fan as that's where they can literally consume the most of it. Nobody and I mean nobody outside of the little Pac 12 fanbase that there is will tune in to Pac 12 games on Amazon. Pushing for us to sign with Amazon for Tier 1 in the year 2023 is literally pushing for your own irrelevancy and will greatly hurt you come next TV contract time or for further realignment.

Maybe come next TV deal streaming on Amazon will be better positioned. Today and over the next 5ish years? No, it's not positioned well at all. Hell the TNF ratings are clear as fricken day it is absolutely not.

Per the Nielsen report I shared on sports viewership, this is incorrect.
Share it again.
https://www.nielsen.com/insights/2022/l ... are-ready/

I don't know if I agree with all of the report's conclusions, but this is the type of report that execs at media companies + advisory firms use to guide decision making.
Well after looking at it, people are streaming, but they're streaming the TV networks specifically. They're watching a game on FOX on FOX.com or utilizing their ESPN app or what is primarily occurring is people are dropping traditional cable I.E. using cable boxes, but instead are using streaming cable options like YoutubeTV, Hulu, Sling, etc. So in other words basically people are still using cable to stream, so yeah technically they're streaming, but they're not utilizing solely streaming apps like Amazon to view sports. They're using streaming cable aggregates or going directly to the common source I.E. ESPN. It still doesn't look good for the Pac 12 if it's going to be heavy Amazon/ESPN+.

Kinda - Amazon and Apple really didn't enter the conversation until the back half of the study, so it is a bit incomplete.

FWIW, Disney was also clear in their earnings calls that they see ESPN moving from a linear service (i.e., you get watch what we want you to) towards the ESPN+ model (we present content, both live and recorded from you to select from). The latter gives them far more opportunities to monetize content and grab viewership without the geographic restrictions that limited viewership.

GlobalCat · Post by **GlobalCat** » Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:03 pm

84Cat wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 12:02 pm Don't forget that Disney is in the midst of a reorg. I think this works against the Pac10/12. They aren't going to pay top dollar at this point to keep the Pac on their channels. It's just bad timing for us:

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/02/08/disney- ... ation.html

Amazon just did their reorg in Nov' 22 and again in January '23.

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:09 pm

Anytime you get the other side you are negotiating with even the smallest amount of thought that you are in a between position than they think you are in, you win

If UA stays or goes it still benefits from the PAC-12 getting the best offer possible. Stays obviously UA gets more money. Goes it has more power in the Big 12

The more united (by appearances or in reality) the better the offer the PAC-12 gets

GlobalCat · Post by **GlobalCat** » Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:14 pm

AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 4:02 pm The B1G expands to the Bay Area and the PAC NW to keep the LA schools happy with travel partners. That's not happening this round, unless the BIG12 delivers the death blow by taking the 4-corner PAC schools. The B1G can then pick up the pieces by offering partial payments for the 4 Bay and bigger PAC NW schools, and getting them at cost.

Meanwhile, nobody knows the future for sure. We don't know if UCLA will like being an also-ran in football, and traveling several time zones for every away game except for USC. How will that effect their basketball, softball, and baseball programs? That TBD. In short, there is no absolute guarantee that the B1G expands to include more western teams in the future.

Also, if, and this is an if, we can get more money by staying the PAC, that's an advantage for us. More money is always preferred. And, in five years, when contract negotiations come around again, the ACC schools will still be stuck for another 7/8 years, and we'll still be the best option for BIG12 expansion.

B1G expands if their broadcast partners have a chance to grow revenues via advertising for the targeted market. LA matter immensely because 1.) the population is large, 2.) THIS IS WHERE THE BROADCAST BUYERS live, and 3.) the schools have strong viewership (well, USC does).

The Pacific NW and Bay Areas has a large population, but the media buyers in those markets are heavily weighted towards digital distribution. The NW at least has strong fan based of Oregon and UW, but am not sure how concentrated they are only in their home markets.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Mon Feb 13, 2023 7:08 pm

It’s kind of funny that a conference with a bunch of teams (BIG12) that nobody really wants (and this their solidarity) has a better TV deal than the conference who has several teams that other conferences will or do desire.

Points directly to leadership of the conference. We have had such poor leadership it’s almost unimaginable. Both the B1G and the Big 12 have benefited by great leadership and visionaries

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Mon Feb 13, 2023 7:24 pm

Good call on leadership J. We all know what a huge failure Larry Scott was, a perfect example of the Peter Principle. Now it seems Kliavkoff is just a bag of hot air, someone who can talk the talk but can't close the sale.

No coffee for you George.

COFFEE IS FOR CLOSERS!!!

In re UofA · Post by **In re UofA** » Mon Feb 13, 2023 8:46 pm

This statement means two things: negotiations are not going well and they need to tell people (or themselves) that they’re united. Neither are good.

ESPN is a financial sinking ship and Disney is not doing so hot either. There is no pot of gold there. No streaming service has offered a pot of gold or it would have been leaked.

Without a strong media deal the Pac dies as a power conference.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 9:19 am

Don't think Amazon is flush with cash now, along with ESPN and Disney.

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 9:51 am

Thr PAC-12 has shit fans compared to the other conferences

No one is talking about that. Scott sucked but this job is so much harder with the fanbase. George learned that quickly as well

CardiacCats97 · Post by **CardiacCats97** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 10:33 am

PHXCATS wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 9:51 am Thr PAC-12 has shit fans compared to the other conferences

No one is talking about that. Scott sucked but this job is so much harder with the fanbase. George learned that quickly as well

Victim blaming is so 2019.

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 10:39 am

CardiacCats97 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 10:33 am
PHXCATS wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 9:51 am Thr PAC-12 has shit fans compared to the other conferences

No one is talking about that. Scott sucked but this job is so much harder with the fanbase. George learned that quickly as well
Victim blaming is so 2019.

It is reality. The ratings for every PAC-12 game are absolute shit compared to the other power 5 conferences

Making a shit joke doesn't change that. If the PAC-12 fans and alumni watched the games and went to the games the offers would be better, usc and ucla wouldn't have left and George would be doing a better job. Fans are the main reason why this is happening. Not Larry or George

84Cat · Post by **84Cat** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 10:43 am

I was listening to a Big 12 guy and he said it really comes down to the presidents. They are the ones directing the AD's and the commissioner. Without buy in from the presidents, the commissioner is kind of limited in what they can do. Look, we have talked about how no one is up to snuff with academics and so we haven't expanded. What was Scott supposed to do? The networks didn't want to give us a lot of money and the presidents didn't want us to expand. Scott was between a rock and a hard place and there wasn't much he could do. Not that he didn't make plenty of mistakes but he didn't have a lot of options either

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 10:46 am

Exactly 84. When you have shit fans and a good portion of Presidents who don't care about sports what can be done

Everyone wants to blame Larry for not getting on Directv. Part of it is that Directv knew there was so little demand for the PAC-12

Larry Scott still sucked. But the job is so much harder than people think

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 10:56 am

PHXCATS wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 9:51 am Thr PAC-12 is shit compared to the other conferences

FIFY

pc in NM · Post by **pc in NM** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:03 am

Academics is the sole reason for the existence of universities. Period.

Research is a priority for a select few universities.

This is as it should be.

Athletics are, and should be, at best, a sideline. Athletics are valuable if, and only if, they exist at the service of the above priorities.

Deal with it!!

CardiacCats97 · Post by **CardiacCats97** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:09 am

PHXCATS wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 10:39 am Making a shit joke doesn't change that.

Shit joke from a shit fan, am I right?

You must be a hell of a lot of fun at the tailgates.

AzCatFan2 · Post by **AzCatFan2** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:15 am

Scott made a huge mistake making Dish the official partner of the PAC-12 Network, and never getting on DirecTv. Not that it mattered much about in-home, but 99% of sports bars have DTV because of the NFL Sunday Ticket. Not being in sports bars hurt with the casual sports viewer.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:32 am

AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:15 am Scott made a huge mistake making Dish the official partner of the PAC-12 Network, and never getting on DirecTv. Not that it mattered much about in-home, but 99% of sports bars have DTV because of the NFL Sunday Ticket. Not being in sports bars hurt with the casual sports viewer.

Wow thanks for making the case against being on Amazon as our primary provider.

CardiacCats97 · Post by **CardiacCats97** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:40 am

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:32 am
AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:15 am Scott made a huge mistake making Dish the official partner of the PAC-12 Network, and never getting on DirecTv. Not that it mattered much about in-home, but 99% of sports bars have DTV because of the NFL Sunday Ticket. Not being in sports bars hurt with the casual sports viewer.
Wow thanks for making the case against being on Amazon as our primary provider.

With YouTube having Sunday Ticket, that’s the streamer the PAC should be talking to if they honestly believe a 90/10 streaming/airplay split is the future.

You want to be first to market with a primarily streamed product? Go where the fans will be. Don’t just kick the tires on some secondary platform with the idea “we’ll, if it doesn’t work out it’s only a 5 year deal”.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:40 am

PHXCATS wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 9:51 am Thr PAC-12 has shit fans compared to the other conferences

No one is talking about that. Scott sucked but this job is so much harder with the fanbase. George learned that quickly as well

This is exactly why we should go now to the Big 12. The carriers know that these fans have other interests and nationally the PAC hardly registers a blip on the viewing screen. At least in the Big 12 you have fans that are passionate and watch, albeit in smaller markets.

I agree with you assessment in general of the fans of the conference, but you have to look at some of the schools and marvel at what they have done. Utah has had almost 50 straight sellouts but they don’t support basketball. Oregon plays to 100% capacity but it’s too far to drive mid week for a two hour basketball game. Some schools like UCLA are just disconnected with their fanbase. I love our fans who support our programs greatly

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:41 am

CardiacCats97 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:09 am
PHXCATS wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 10:39 am Making a shit joke doesn't change that.
Shit joke from a shit fan, am I right?

You must be a hell of a lot of fun at the tailgates.

I don’t know a thing about you so no idea but the fan base overall for the entire conference is shit compared to the other conferences that all got paid

AzCatFan2 · Post by **AzCatFan2** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:49 am

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:32 am
AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:15 am Scott made a huge mistake making Dish the official partner of the PAC-12 Network, and never getting on DirecTv. Not that it mattered much about in-home, but 99% of sports bars have DTV because of the NFL Sunday Ticket. Not being in sports bars hurt with the casual sports viewer.
Wow thanks for making the case against being on Amazon as our primary provider.

To quote a great poet, "The times, they are a'chagin."

Amazon is already plugged into DirecTv Business with a channel to show TNF football games at all sports bars with DTV. And, everyone with Amazon Prime will have access to PAC games regardless of what cable/satellite provider they have, assuming they aren't cord cutters or cord nevers already. Meaning games that are currently are PAC-12 Network, and cannot be shown across the country in sports bars with DTV only, will be able to be on those TVs. And in-home potential market is larger as well.

You could argue that YouTube is the streaming service we should be negotiating with, as they will have Sunday Ticket, and not Amazon. And there is an argument for this. But not sure YT is even a player for PAC rights. But Amazon will at least get us on DTV in sports bars.

CardiacCats97 · Post by **CardiacCats97** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:53 am

PHXCATS wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:41 am
CardiacCats97 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:09 am
PHXCATS wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 10:39 am Making a shit joke doesn't change that.
Shit joke from a shit fan, am I right?

You must be a hell of a lot of fun at the tailgates.
I don’t know a thing about you so no idea but the fan base overall for the entire conference is shit compared to the other conferences that all got paid

Blanket statements are stupid.

Are the WSU fans who bring their flag to every Gameday shit?

Are the Arizona fans who pack Vegas every year and sell out McKale every game and who rip national pundits on Twitter for their disrespect and post religiously on these messages boards shit?

I won’t speak for every fan or every fan base, but the results haven’t really been all that spectacular. Hard to truly get behind a conference where the last football national championship was 19 years ago (and was vacated) and the last basketball national championship was ours over a quarter of a century ago. And we aren’t regularly putting teams in the Playoff or the Final Four.

Shit fans? Or shit conference?

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:53 am

CardiacCats97 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:40 am
ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:32 am
AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:15 am Scott made a huge mistake making Dish the official partner of the PAC-12 Network, and never getting on DirecTv. Not that it mattered much about in-home, but 99% of sports bars have DTV because of the NFL Sunday Ticket. Not being in sports bars hurt with the casual sports viewer.
Wow thanks for making the case against being on Amazon as our primary provider.
With YouTube having Sunday Ticket, that’s the streamer the PAC should be talking to if they honestly believe a 90/10 streaming/airplay split is the future.

You want to be first to market with a primarily streamed product? Go where the fans will be. Don’t just kick the tires on some secondary platform with the idea “we’ll, if it doesn’t work out it’s only a 5 year deal”.

YouTubeTV is basically DirecTV. It's not the same as a "streamer." It's a cable aggregator. If you sign a deal with say ESPN and FOX then you will be on YouTubeTV. If you sign a deal with Amazon you will not.

AzCatFan2 · Post by **AzCatFan2** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:54 am

By the way, ESPN+ has a separate fee for Businesses (https://help.espnplus.com/espnplus_hc?i ... a83cbb3509) ESPN does now allow for personal ESPN+ access to be shown in a business like a sports bar. Today, mostly bars with large hockey fan traffic have an ESPN+ Business subscription, as + does show all hockey games much like Sunday Ticket shows football.

Interesting to note. On the linked ESPN+ Business page, it's already advertising, "College football and basketball (from top conferences including Big 12, SEC, ACC, and The American)"

dirtbags · Post by **dirtbags** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:57 am

AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 08, 2023 3:32 pm And again, there is travel cost to consider. It's estimated that UCLA's travel budget will increase ~$5mil due to the B1G move (https://boardroom.tv/ucla-big-ten-pac-1 ... l%20burden.), but when you're making an additional $30mil, it's still worth it. Our move to the BIG 12 wouldn't cost us that much, but even an increase of $1mil to $2mil is significant. Again, if we can make $6mil more in the BIG 12, we should move. But if we can make more in the PAC, we should stay.

yeah - there's the added cost, but also the added hassle of traveling in a conference like the big12. going to places like central iowa or rural kansas will make our current away games in pullman and eugene look like trips to the grocery store - most of those schools are in the middle of nowhere. at least the B1G schools are reasonably close to major airports with decent accommodations.

another logistical consideration is the weather, which has been getting more brutal with climate change. athletes from B1G and big12 winter sports have been complaining about how much more grueling conference travel is these days with flight cancellations, power / heat outages, getting sick, getting stuck in a white-out on a bus, etc. growing more common. i can see that sort of grind affecting our basketball, but it'll def suck a lot more and in a lot more ways for the non-revenue sports.

AzCatFan2 · Post by **AzCatFan2** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:58 am

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:53 am
CardiacCats97 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:40 am
ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:32 am
AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:15 am Scott made a huge mistake making Dish the official partner of the PAC-12 Network, and never getting on DirecTv. Not that it mattered much about in-home, but 99% of sports bars have DTV because of the NFL Sunday Ticket. Not being in sports bars hurt with the casual sports viewer.
Wow thanks for making the case against being on Amazon as our primary provider.
With YouTube having Sunday Ticket, that’s the streamer the PAC should be talking to if they honestly believe a 90/10 streaming/airplay split is the future.

You want to be first to market with a primarily streamed product? Go where the fans will be. Don’t just kick the tires on some secondary platform with the idea “we’ll, if it doesn’t work out it’s only a 5 year deal”.
YouTubeTV is basically DirecTV. It's not the same as a "streamer." It's a cable aggregator. If you sign a deal with say ESPN and FOX then you will be on YouTubeTV. If you sign a deal with Amazon you will not.

YouTube, FUBO, and Sling are streaming providers that do provide traditional channels. They are considered streaming services because all content is streamed through the Internet. No coaxial cable or satellite needed. Sunday Ticket on YT will be considered unique YT content, and will require a subscription to YT to watch it. Not sure of the YT Business contract, and whether or not YT will be like ESPN+ and make sports bars pay for a subscription? Or will YT go the Amazon route and allow for channels on DTV Business through a separate agreement.

EastCoastCat · Post by **EastCoastCat** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 12:10 pm

I pay for everything - cord, no cords, extra butter on the popcorn - as I want to watch what I want whenever I want until I die.

But regardless of my way of thinking around the word of cable and streaming, if Arizona remains on the Pac Titanic in hopes Amazon or someone will plug the leak they will have a nice trip to the bottom of the sea. Once the LA schools bolted to the B10 the writing was on the wall. GET OUT OF THE PAC AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

As Morgan Freeman once said "Hope is a dangerous thing. Drive a man insane."

Alieberman · Post by **Alieberman** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 12:17 pm

Can someone just send me a private message when this shit is decided.

I hate this thread

EastCoastCat · Post by **EastCoastCat** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 12:20 pm

Alieberman wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 12:17 pm Can someone just send me a private message when this shit is decided.

I hate this thread

We can send you a link to the stream...

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 12:20 pm

CardiacCats97 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:53 am
PHXCATS wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:41 am
CardiacCats97 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:09 am
PHXCATS wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 10:39 am Making a shit joke doesn't change that.
Shit joke from a shit fan, am I right?

You must be a hell of a lot of fun at the tailgates.
I don’t know a thing about you so no idea but the fan base overall for the entire conference is shit compared to the other conferences that all got paid
Blanket statements are stupid.

Are the WSU fans who bring their flag to every Gameday shit?

Are the Arizona fans who pack Vegas every year and sell out McKale every game and who rip national pundits on Twitter for their disrespect and post religiously on these messages boards shit?

I won’t speak for every fan or every fan base, but the results haven’t really been all that spectacular. Hard to truly get behind a conference where the last football national championship was 19 years ago (and was vacated) and the last basketball national championship was ours over a quarter of a century ago. And we aren’t regularly putting teams in the Playoff or the Final Four.

Shit fans? Or shit conference?

The big ten hasn’t won a basketball title since 2000 and only Ohio State has won in football over that timeframe and only twice.

Yet Big Ten gets all the viewership thus all the money.

And notice how I said overall. Yeah our basketball fans are great and we have D at best football fans.

The lack of viewership and attendance is the reason for the conference failing to get a tv deal

pc in NM · Post by **pc in NM** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 12:31 pm

AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:49 am
ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:32 am
AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:15 am Scott made a huge mistake making Dish the official partner of the PAC-12 Network, and never getting on DirecTv. Not that it mattered much about in-home, but 99% of sports bars have DTV because of the NFL Sunday Ticket. Not being in sports bars hurt with the casual sports viewer.
Wow thanks for making the case against being on Amazon as our primary provider.
To quote a great poet, "The times, they are a'chagin."

Amazon is already plugged into DirecTv Business with a channel to show TNF football games at all sports bars with DTV. And, everyone with Amazon Prime will have access to PAC games regardless of what cable/satellite provider they have, assuming they aren't cord cutters or cord nevers already. Meaning games that are currently are PAC-12 Network, and cannot be shown across the country in sports bars with DTV only, will be able to be on those TVs. And in-home potential market is larger as well.

You could argue that YouTube is the streaming service we should be negotiating with, as they will have Sunday Ticket, and not Amazon. And there is an argument for this. But not sure YT is even a player for PAC rights. But Amazon will at least get us on DTV in sports bars.

I would expect that if Amazon contracted with the Pac, that they'd broadcast on Ad-supported Amazon FreeVee - totally free access, available to anyone...

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 12:37 pm

So it’s the fans fault the conference has failed? That is just pure horseshit and you know it.

Yes, it’s a factor in TV negotiations being weak but the loss of the LA market has so much more to do with that than Ann tickets sold.

If the Presidents and Scott/Kliavkoff would have recognized their value with greater revenue then they likely would still be here.

If the conference would have dropped their silly academic requirements for potential acceptance into the conference we would likely have a very strong 14-18 team conference now.

These mistakes were made by people far above the fan level. And BTW, our football fan base is just fine. Lose 20 straight and you see what happens. Once again that wasn’t on the fans, it was on the leaders mismanagement of the program

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 12:42 pm

pc in NM wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 12:31 pm
AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:49 am
ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:32 am
AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:15 am Scott made a huge mistake making Dish the official partner of the PAC-12 Network, and never getting on DirecTv. Not that it mattered much about in-home, but 99% of sports bars have DTV because of the NFL Sunday Ticket. Not being in sports bars hurt with the casual sports viewer.
Wow thanks for making the case against being on Amazon as our primary provider.
To quote a great poet, "The times, they are a'chagin."

Amazon is already plugged into DirecTv Business with a channel to show TNF football games at all sports bars with DTV. And, everyone with Amazon Prime will have access to PAC games regardless of what cable/satellite provider they have, assuming they aren't cord cutters or cord nevers already. Meaning games that are currently are PAC-12 Network, and cannot be shown across the country in sports bars with DTV only, will be able to be on those TVs. And in-home potential market is larger as well.

You could argue that YouTube is the streaming service we should be negotiating with, as they will have Sunday Ticket, and not Amazon. And there is an argument for this. But not sure YT is even a player for PAC rights. But Amazon will at least get us on DTV in sports bars.
I would expect that if Amazon contracted with the Pac, that they'd broadcast on Ad-supported Amazon FreeVee - totally free access, available to anyone...

That's not what they're planning. They're planning for a specific sports streaming network that they will charge extra for.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 1:08 pm

Yea I doubt you make a 300-400m investment and give it away for free.

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