Bear Down Wildcats

I think Stanford can go Indy until they find a spot. Cal is more screwed.

OSU and WSU should be begging the the Mountain West to join. Perfect landing spot for them.

This is all gut, no research… but if I had to rank them by popularity and potential viewers I’d go:

Stanford
Oregon State
UNLV
San Diego State
Boise State
Colorado State
Wyoming
Cal
Washington State
Fresno State
Air Force
New Mexico
Nevada
Hawaii
San Jose State
Utah State

EastCoastCat wrote: ↑Sat Aug 12, 2023 5:41 am I think Stanford can go Indy until they find a spot. Cal is more screwed.

OSU and WSU should be begging the the Mountain West to join. Perfect landing spot for them.

Except for the $20ish million less absolutely

Chicat wrote: ↑Sat Aug 12, 2023 6:26 am This is all gut, no research… but if I had to rank them by popularity and potential viewers I’d go:

Stanford
Oregon State
UNLV
San Diego State
Boise State
Colorado State
Wyoming
Cal
Washington State
Fresno State
Air Force
New Mexico
Nevada
Hawaii
San Jose State
Utah State

So there you go. Take the teams in bold. These 10 teams are worth more on average than the current MW on average. If the Pac stay together, they have money coming in from NCAA Tourney units, so use that to pay the $102 million in exit fees for those 6 to leave the MW, and they join for the 2025 season. In the 2024 season the forgotten 4 play a double-round robin conference schedule and try like heck to pick up 6 non conf games - most or all on the road for guarantee money.

AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2023 1:36 pm

Capital Tiger wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2023 1:32 pm

PHXCATS wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2023 10:24 am

KillerKlown wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2023 10:01 am

PHXCATS wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2023 9:11 am Told you there was a ton of behind the scenes stuff to kill the PAC-12. Obviously there is a case to be made. Will be interesting. When PAC-12 games rate better than Big-12 games by a large amount there were obviously other things at play

Rate better? On what platform and deal? When did Stanford and Cal get fans? And if they do get better ratings it'll be for a very short time by people just tuneing in to see a freak show and then changing the channel(?) once they realize they are watching pac football.

When you take off USC UCLA Texas and Oklahoma and compared Big12 and PAC12 numbers the next three highest teams are Washington Oregon and Stanford for the last t years

There's no conspiracy here dude. Pretty clear that neither Scott nor Kliavkoff knew what they were doing, or how to read a freaking room.

Yeah, yeah, Pac-X teams rated higher than Big XII teams after USC/UCLA & OU/UT left. However, that higher value was not as high as Kliavkoff thought it could be. To wit, the report that GK turned down a 30 mil offer from ESPN. Had he taken that, or even negotiated it up a tad, Pac-10 would likely still be a thing. BUT HE DIDN'T KNOW what a good deal it was. He didn't understand that linear TV as we know it is failing. And then he has the nerve to present a variable plan to the presidents who basically fired Larry Scott for the albatross of the Pac-12 network.

Well, at that point the math didn't matter. It was an unstable system; an unbalanced equation - A SINKING SHIP. All the good swimmers jumped to safety and the Pac-4 were left like Travolta in the meme from Pulp Fiction.

Fox and ESPN just came in to clean up LS and GK's mess. The end.

This is spot on. Take the $30 mil from ESPN, and leverage the PAC-12 Network to try and get those games on a streaming network like Amazon, YouTube, or Apple. Could have made the deal for the money the conference owes Comcast, about $72 million, and included laddered payments for additional subs. May not have added any additional money to the pot, but would have wiped the debt of the books, plus wipe a lot of production payments the conference had to make, not owning the Network anymore.

The $30 million offer was for every thing, including the Pac-12 Network. Either way, yes the Pac-12 should've taken that deal, but alas they're ran by morons and here we are.

I feel bad for Oregon St. Like us, they often struggled for relevancy.

When I've been in Oregon its always seemed to me that Oregon St is the cool in -state school and preferred by the natives, whereas Oregon was basically alot of out of state chumps. Kinda like ASSU.

How did the corn shuckers get in the big 10?

Postmaster wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 3:51 pm How did the corn shuckers get in the big 10?

They once had a prominent football program. Not anymore.

EastCoastCat wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 4:01 pm

Postmaster wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 3:51 pm How did the corn shuckers get in the big 10?

They once had a prominent football program. Not anymore.

The luster was off by the time they jumped. The B1G was buying an antique.

arizonawildcats wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 12:32 pm

Thanks for the link. No real new information, but nice to have the story laid out in one spot. I'm not happy our only option was the BIG12, but I'm glad President Robbins had Plan B locked and loaded, so when it became obvious we had no other options, we were ready to go.

I know the ESPN offer of $30 million a year was for everything, including the PAC-12 Network, I still think the Network had more value to streaming services rather than ESPN. Amazon was never a big contender for the PAC contract, but rumors were, they wanted a Friday Night Game of the Week, and access to the PAC-12 Network Production capabilities. We could have negotiated with ESPN close to $30 million per school for everything minus the PAC-12 Network and one T2 game, and tried to see if we could a streaming service to kick $4 to $5 million a year for the Network plus the GOW. I think Amazon would have jumped on it, in my opinion. Or, had we come back to ESPN with a reasonable counter offer, we could have gotten to the $32 million the BIG12 received.

Not gonna lie, will be weird not having you guys as in conference rivals, maybe I can finally get the bad taste that Jenkins ‘leap by the lake’ left me with.

Good luck in the B12!

Smash - a Udub blast from the past. Always a solid poster.

Good luck in the Big 10. I’m sure they will greet you with open arms.

Like I've said before, the money is drying up fast and there won't be major expansion

For those of you that poo-poo'd the idea of moving the conference BBall tournament to Las Vegas: (Even Yomark is thinking about it)

https://www.ktbs.com/sports/national/br ... b47ac.html

Regarding conference tournaments and football championships, have you considered changing locations now that other teams are a part of the conference?

A: “We have. We have some long-term relationships and great partnerships right now. But as we think about the future, we think about some of our Olympic sports, we think about new IP, that we’re in the process of creating, we’ve got new markets that we can go to now. Markets that are incredibly important. So I’m excited about what the possibilities are, and we are fully engaged in that mode right now.

“So I wouldn’t be surprised if some of our Olympic sports, more so than than football and basketball, move almost immediately. I also feel that some of the new IP, like I said that we’re working on, could find its way into some very exciting markets, like a Las Vegas. So more to come on that. But now that our footprint is in 10 states, we’ve got lots of possibilities.”

dmjcat wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 9:03 am For those of you that poo-poo'd the idea of moving the conference BBall tournament to Las Vegas: (Even Yomark is thinking about it)

https://www.ktbs.com/sports/national/br ... b47ac.html

Regarding conference tournaments and football championships, have you considered changing locations now that other teams are a part of the conference?

A: “We have. We have some long-term relationships and great partnerships right now. But as we think about the future, we think about some of our Olympic sports, we think about new IP, that we’re in the process of creating, we’ve got new markets that we can go to now. Markets that are incredibly important. So I’m excited about what the possibilities are, and we are fully engaged in that mode right now.

“So I wouldn’t be surprised if some of our Olympic sports, more so than than football and basketball, move almost immediately. I also feel that some of the new IP, like I said that we’re working on, could find its way into some very exciting markets, like a Las Vegas. So more to come on that. But now that our footprint is in 10 states, we’ve got lots of possibilities.”

Some people are gonna be big mad

RondaeShimmy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 2:05 pm

Hiring someone from outside hierarchical major college sports to lead the Pac12 was a bold but ultimately flawed move. While Kliavkoff had experience in television (both linear and streaming), and a little sports entertainment work under his belt, he was not ready to deal with egomaniacal school presidents or the enormous hole Larry Scott put us in.

RondaeShimmy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 2:05 pm

Was it professor Machina?

PHXCATS wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 2:12 pm

dmjcat wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 9:03 am For those of you that poo-poo'd the idea of moving the conference BBall tournament to Las Vegas: (Even Yomark is thinking about it)

https://www.ktbs.com/sports/national/br ... b47ac.html

Regarding conference tournaments and football championships, have you considered changing locations now that other teams are a part of the conference?

A: “We have. We have some long-term relationships and great partnerships right now. But as we think about the future, we think about some of our Olympic sports, we think about new IP, that we’re in the process of creating, we’ve got new markets that we can go to now. Markets that are incredibly important. So I’m excited about what the possibilities are, and we are fully engaged in that mode right now.

“So I wouldn’t be surprised if some of our Olympic sports, more so than than football and basketball, move almost immediately. I also feel that some of the new IP, like I said that we’re working on, could find its way into some very exciting markets, like a Las Vegas. So more to come on that. But now that our footprint is in 10 states, we’ve got lots of possibilities.”

Some people are gonna be big mad

Like all the Kansas fans that don't want to play a basketball tournament at McKale north?

To tell you the truth, if this is gonna be a 4 round tourney with one easy game for only the top 2 or maybe 3 seeds then brutality for the next 3 days, id almost rather win two and rest up for the big dance. This ain't no pac 12 tourney with maybe two cupcakes and one big game, even at that the emotional high of winning that tourney sometimes puts the winning team at a disadvantage later, esp of there are guys nursing injuries, and we all saw what happened to Kerr 2 years ago and Ballo last year.

U.P. Zona Fan wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 3:12 pm

PHXCATS wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 2:12 pm

dmjcat wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 9:03 am For those of you that poo-poo'd the idea of moving the conference BBall tournament to Las Vegas: (Even Yomark is thinking about it)

https://www.ktbs.com/sports/national/br ... b47ac.html

Regarding conference tournaments and football championships, have you considered changing locations now that other teams are a part of the conference?

A: “We have. We have some long-term relationships and great partnerships right now. But as we think about the future, we think about some of our Olympic sports, we think about new IP, that we’re in the process of creating, we’ve got new markets that we can go to now. Markets that are incredibly important. So I’m excited about what the possibilities are, and we are fully engaged in that mode right now.

“So I wouldn’t be surprised if some of our Olympic sports, more so than than football and basketball, move almost immediately. I also feel that some of the new IP, like I said that we’re working on, could find its way into some very exciting markets, like a Las Vegas. So more to come on that. But now that our footprint is in 10 states, we’ve got lots of possibilities.”

Some people are gonna be big mad

Like all the Kansas fans that don't want to play a basketball tournament at McKale north?

To tell you the truth, if this is gonna be a 4 round tourney with one easy game for only the top 2 or maybe 3 seeds then brutality for the next 3 days, id almost rather win two and rest up for the big dance. This ain't no pac 12 tourney with maybe two cupcakes and one big game, even at that the emotional high of winning that tourney sometimes puts the winning team at a disadvantage later, esp of there are guys nursing injuries, and we all saw what happened to Kerr 2 years ago and Ballo last year.

No.

The UA "media" people pandering to the Big12

azgreg wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 3:12 pm

RondaeShimmy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 2:05 pm

Was it professor Machina?

Whatever it was it was focused, long view leadership working in concert with big dick collectives constituted of good fans who don't destroy Arizona's national reputation online.

PHXCATS wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 3:19 pm

U.P. Zona Fan wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 3:12 pm

PHXCATS wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 2:12 pm

dmjcat wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 9:03 am For those of you that poo-poo'd the idea of moving the conference BBall tournament to Las Vegas: (Even Yomark is thinking about it)

https://www.ktbs.com/sports/national/br ... b47ac.html

Regarding conference tournaments and football championships, have you considered changing locations now that other teams are a part of the conference?

A: “We have. We have some long-term relationships and great partnerships right now. But as we think about the future, we think about some of our Olympic sports, we think about new IP, that we’re in the process of creating, we’ve got new markets that we can go to now. Markets that are incredibly important. So I’m excited about what the possibilities are, and we are fully engaged in that mode right now.

“So I wouldn’t be surprised if some of our Olympic sports, more so than than football and basketball, move almost immediately. I also feel that some of the new IP, like I said that we’re working on, could find its way into some very exciting markets, like a Las Vegas. So more to come on that. But now that our footprint is in 10 states, we’ve got lots of possibilities.”

Some people are gonna be big mad

Like all the Kansas fans that don't want to play a basketball tournament at McKale north?

To tell you the truth, if this is gonna be a 4 round tourney with one easy game for only the top 2 or maybe 3 seeds then brutality for the next 3 days, id almost rather win two and rest up for the big dance. This ain't no pac 12 tourney with maybe two cupcakes and one big game, even at that the emotional high of winning that tourney sometimes puts the winning team at a disadvantage later, esp of there are guys nursing injuries, and we all saw what happened to Kerr 2 years ago and Ballo last year.

No.

The UA "media" people pandering to the Big12

Are you saying that UA media people are gonna be mad if the Big 12 tournament is in Vegas?

You think UA media peeps would rather it be in KC? I'm just wondering if that is what you are saying.

I must have misunderstood your original premise.

U.P. Zona Fan wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 4:47 pm

PHXCATS wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 3:19 pm

U.P. Zona Fan wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 3:12 pm

PHXCATS wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 2:12 pm

dmjcat wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 9:03 am For those of you that poo-poo'd the idea of moving the conference BBall tournament to Las Vegas: (Even Yomark is thinking about it)

https://www.ktbs.com/sports/national/br ... b47ac.html

Regarding conference tournaments and football championships, have you considered changing locations now that other teams are a part of the conference?

A: “We have. We have some long-term relationships and great partnerships right now. But as we think about the future, we think about some of our Olympic sports, we think about new IP, that we’re in the process of creating, we’ve got new markets that we can go to now. Markets that are incredibly important. So I’m excited about what the possibilities are, and we are fully engaged in that mode right now.

“So I wouldn’t be surprised if some of our Olympic sports, more so than than football and basketball, move almost immediately. I also feel that some of the new IP, like I said that we’re working on, could find its way into some very exciting markets, like a Las Vegas. So more to come on that. But now that our footprint is in 10 states, we’ve got lots of possibilities.”

Some people are gonna be big mad

Like all the Kansas fans that don't want to play a basketball tournament at McKale north?

To tell you the truth, if this is gonna be a 4 round tourney with one easy game for only the top 2 or maybe 3 seeds then brutality for the next 3 days, id almost rather win two and rest up for the big dance. This ain't no pac 12 tourney with maybe two cupcakes and one big game, even at that the emotional high of winning that tourney sometimes puts the winning team at a disadvantage later, esp of there are guys nursing injuries, and we all saw what happened to Kerr 2 years ago and Ballo last year.

No.

The UA "media" people pandering to the Big12

Are you saying that UA media people are gonna be mad if the Big 12 tournament is in Vegas?

You think UA media peeps would rather it be in KC? I'm just wondering if that is what you are saying.

I must have misunderstood your original premise.

Certain UA "media" "personalities" have been mad that UA fans are suggesting the Big 12 tournament move to Vegas. They have called it disrespectful that UA fans would even suggest it and said we (UA fans and alumni) are guests in the Big12 and need to act as such.

Some people’s assholes are so tight when they fart only dogs can hear it.

Chicat wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 5:03 pm Some people’s assholes are so tight when they fart only dogs can hear it.

Shove a lump of coal in his ass and in two weeks you'll have a diamond.

azgreg wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 5:22 pm

Chicat wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 5:03 pm Some people’s assholes are so tight when they fart only dogs can hear it.

Shove a lump of coal in his ass and in two weeks you'll have a diamond.

Why stop there? A galaxy of gases could accrete into a viable solar system if subjected to such collapsing gravitational force. But it needn't be large, you know.

"The galaxy is on Machina's Belt."

EastCoastCat wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 5:41 am Smash - a Udub blast from the past. Always a solid poster.

Good luck in the Big 10. I’m sure they will greet you with open arms.

Appreciate it! You guys had always been welcoming!

dovecanyoncat wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 3:33 pm

azgreg wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 3:12 pm

RondaeShimmy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 2:05 pm

Was it professor Machina?

Whatever it was it was focused, long view leadership working in concert with big dick collectives constituted of good fans who don't destroy Arizona's national reputation online.

That was a really good article. The big takeaway for me is that while Pac-12 conference leadership has been lacking, the Pac-12 presidents/universities were duplicitous or naïve, and those seem to be the only two options.

And I know Arizona is free from them now, but how in blue blazes is Kliavkoff still employed? The remaining 4 schools should have cut him out the night that the last 5 schools left. How did he wake up that Saturday and still have a job?

Pac-12 Committe: Let's meet to talk about expansion
USC Pres: Guys we don't need to expand
Pac-12: We don't?
USC: Nah, we good
Pac-12: Ok if you say so
USC: Just trust me

Pac-12 Commish: ESPN says they'll give us $30 mil
Univ Pres: Professor so and so at my campus says we're worth $50
GK: ESPN just offered us $30
Pres: Ask for $50. I bet they say yes.
GK: You sure? That's almost double.
Pres: Yeah, my prof said so. Do it.
GK: Ok if you say so.

Kliavkoff seems to have been in way over his head.

If Larry Scott had taken Texas and Oklahoma in 2011 he’d likely today be the commissioner of the PAC-20. Instead he wanted to focus on breaking into Asia and having a shiny office.

Peronally I think UA should expand into northern Mexico.

This is a decent story on the sequence of events from the LA Times:

https://www.latimes.com/sports/story/20 ... cla-oregon

For those who struggle with paywalls, here's the gist of it:

After Texas and Oklahoma split for the SEC, the remaining 8 Big XII schools wanted to merge into a Pac-20. New USC president Carol Folt rejected it (and any expansion.)

Kliavkoff met with some of the UC Regents about having them deny UCLA entrance to the Big Ten. If Kliavkoff could have convinced the rest of the league to pony up enough to get UCLA to $50M a year, that might have happened. Oregon was the first to say hell no to that.

When ESPN offered over $30M a year each to the remaining Pac schools after USC and UCLA left, that's when the unnamed Pac-12 school said their guy said it should be $50M and ESPN was royally pissed. (I'd like to think it was ASU, but who knows?)

Deion Sanders was the motivation for Colorado to the Big XII that got the dominoes tipping. They jumped 5 days before the deadline of July 31.

Not sure who the idiot professor is who thought PAC12 minus LA was worth only $10 million less than the SEC or B1G. But he/she needs to be fired. Had the PAC come back with a counter of $35 million, or $30 million and we keep the PAC-12 Network plus maybe a T2 game of the week, I think ESPN would have taken it. Still think we could have potentially packaged the PAC-12 Network plus a game-of-the-week to Amazon, who really prized the PAC-12 Network's production capability, more so than any game. However, a Friday night GOW that Amazon could promote during it's Thursday NFL broadcast would have been a decent toe-dip into college sports for Amazon.

All water under the bridge now.

Just feels good to be out of the poorly run, arrogant PAC 12 conference. With Yormark it seems we have an aggressive, forward looking guy with presidents who will allow him to navigate the markets with more freedom

Regarding "The Professor", I'd be willing to bet it was like a situation I was involved in once working for a company in which an unfortunate but necessary desired outcome was a foregone conclusion. But there was pushback from a key organization. So, a well-known consulting firm was retained. A month and $100K later, there were beautiful full-color binders with charts and analysis from this "neutral" third-party which miraculously also reached the same original conclusion (in order to get paid), and now everybody got on board. In other words: bought and paid for.

And as far as the poorly-run, arrogant Pac-12 is concerned...amen, brother! It'll be interesting to see what our final go-round feels like. In the final 1977 WAC year, we were bad across the board, and we were the bad guys for leaving the rest behind for greener pastures, so every team really tried to tee off on us. But we're better this time around, and everybody is pretty much all going their own separate ways, although WSU and OSU will probably be grinding their teeth. I won't miss the PNW a bit, nor Pac-12 presidents, nor Pac-12 refs, nor Pac-12 promotional videos and public service announcements. There are always challenges, but when you look at some of our historical obstacles in the Pac, I really think the Big XII is going to be a good fit for us and a very nice path forward.

My guess is that there was a range with crazy different scenarios and 50 was the top of the top

RondaeShimmy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 2:05 pm

Seeing the above, I'm realizing it wasn't ALL Larry Scott's fault. Only 90-95%. The remaining fault being on George Kliavkoff for blowing off $30M over thinking the Pac 12 was worth $50M. Honestly probably isn't even worth what ESPN wanted. In over his head is correct.

Seeing the below follow-up comment and applying this to how it pertains to Michael Crow - Crow absolutely understands business. He knows how to expand a brand, create a momentum of generally positive PR, and leverage profits. However, after his antics through the expansion into the B12, it's clear Crow knows nothing about sports and the way sports overlap into business.

Kliakoff though couldn’t override the presidents and just accept the 30m offer. I thought he took it back to them and THEY told him they thought the number should be 50m based on the idiot professor. BTW, where was that professor from?

azcat49 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 10:11 am Kliakoff though couldn’t override the presidents and just accept the 30m offer. I thought he took it back to them and THEY told him they thought the number should be 50m based on the idiot professor. BTW, where was that professor from?

Everything I have seen points to ASU

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/ ... 613674007/

WTF? The conference took the word of an ASSU professor. They deserved what they got then

I thought it was a ucla professor

PHXCATS wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 12:16 pm I thought it was a ucla professor

Not logical, because this was well after USC and UCLA had already committed to the B1G. So it is extremely doubtful that the remaining 10 presidents would rely on something from a school that had already left.

WSU

BBQ wildcat wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 2:23 pm

PHXCATS wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 12:16 pm I thought it was a ucla professor

Not logical, because this was well after USC and UCLA had already committed to the B1G. So it is extremely doubtful that the remaining 10 presidents would rely on something from a school that had already left.

I looked through the LA Times story. It does not give then name of the school or the professor.

You are right though, that doesn't makes sense. My comment was from reading tweets with headlines from the article. They were talking about blocking UCLA along with the professor so my mind went there at first.

It's insane that Kliavkoff would use a professor in the first place. $50 million had no basis in reality even if it came from Stanford. Amateur hour.

arizonawildcats wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 8:19 pm It's insane that Kliavkoff would use a professor in the first place. $50 million had no basis in reality even if it came from Stanford. Amateur hour.

Could have double checked with just about anyone with two brain cells and they would have laughed ‘til they peed at the idea we should ask for 50.

It's crap like this that makes it hard for me to feel sorry for the demise of the Pac. These dumbasses had it coming.

AZCatGirl wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 9:19 pm It's crap like this that makes it hard for me to feel sorry for the demise of the Pac. These dumbasses had it coming.

My favorite poster in this thread and it's not that close.