Conference Realignment

[pc in NM]

Chi and I have both been touting the relegation concept.

The idea of the NFL taking 28 or so teams for a "premiere-like" league, and maybe more for a second tier, with a "relegation concept", of course, means the end of the NCAA.There would be no way football would remain a "collegiate" sport, as we now conceive it. It would bee more like minor league baseball rather than collegiate baseball.

College football is such a big business that it feels like it's already a minor league for the NFL. May as well make it official.

No, we wouldn't be a part of that, but we're a basketball school that's about to join the best basketball conference in the nation. I think we'll be fine in that niche, as it's still very profitable for us.

If/when the football is separated from the rest of college sports, the current alignment of athletic leagues will almost immediately become obsolete.

Television football $$$$ is driving the current realignment - geographical considerations have ceased to be significant considerations.

Basketball is also TV-centric, and geographical considerations also are not so important - TV $$$$ trumps all alse.

However, for almost all other collegiate sports, the current athletic conference realignment is geographically cumbersome and expensive and, with diminished football $$$$, will likely become a major consideration.

[pc in NM]

Chi and I have both been touting the relegation concept.

The idea of the NFL taking 28 or so teams for a "premiere-like" league, and maybe more for a second tier, with a "relegation concept", of course, means the end of the NCAA.There would be no way football would remain a "collegiate" sport, as we now conceive it. It would bee more like minor league baseball rather than collegiate baseball.

Whatever one thinks of the NCAA, it is a non-profit corporation overseen by a board of NCAA member presidents.
Obviously, the NFL is, and will never be, either.

I cannot conceive of the U of A being selected for the original "premiere-like" league under any scenario, and. even if in the second "tier", ever being anything other than an "also ran".

The future of collegiate sports would, under such a scenario, be so radically different than it is now it'd hard to imagine. If a NCAA-like organization were to continue to be the governance structure, I suppose that the U of A would be well situated, since basketball would replace football as the major income generator.

BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR!

I used to write memo's and report's and give it to an admin to type out and send interoffice or mail.

Times change.

And, soon, AI will make you obsolete, too!

To say it clear, to say it cold
It's over, it ain't going
Any further (do, do, do)
And now the wheels of heaven stop
You feel the devil's riding crop
Get ready for the future
It is murder (do, do, do)

- Leonard Cohen, The Future

[AzCatFan2]

Football drives TV revenues. $.75 of every $1.00 we will receive from the BIG12 next year will be generated from football. If, sometime in the future, there is a promotion/regulation with only ~30 teams in the top tier Premiere League, and we're in the 2nd tier Champions League, what will that do to our TV revenue? If the football portion is cut in half, that's over $10 million a year we won't be getting. What gets cut? How do we compete? And really think basketball will be fine if we're making $20 million a year, but a school like Washington is making $60 million plus, and can offer Coach Tommy twice what he's making in Tucson to move back to Washington State?

The only benefit of being a basketball school, and affiliated with the top basketball conference is after football, March Madness is clearly the most profitable NCAA entity. Would MM be the same if the top BIG12 schools like Kansas, Arizona, Baylor, and Houston, along with top ACC schools like Duke and Syracuse weren't in it? I don't think so. And while the SEC and B1G could potentially squeeze a few more bucks from football by becoming a Premiere League, they would likely lose money from not have March Madness as is.

[CalStateTempe]

Pac 12 and MWC in discussions to have relegation.

So cool, all here for that.

https://www.on3.com/news/pac-12-mountai ... ger-talks/

[EastCoastCat]

Chi and I have both been touting the relegation concept.

The idea of the NFL taking 28 or so teams for a "premiere-like" league, and maybe more for a second tier, with a "relegation concept", of course, means the end of the NCAA.There would be no way football would remain a "collegiate" sport, as we now conceive it. It would bee more like minor league baseball rather than collegiate baseball.

Whatever one thinks of the NCAA, it is a non-profit corporation overseen by a board of NCAA member presidents.
Obviously, the NFL is, and will never be, either.

I cannot conceive of the U of A being selected for the original "premiere-like" league under any scenario, and. even if in the second "tier", ever being anything other than an "also ran".

The future of collegiate sports would, under such a scenario, be so radically different than it is now it'd hard to imagine. If a NCAA-like organization were to continue to be the governance structure, I suppose that the U of A would be well situated, since basketball would replace football as the major income generator.

BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR!

I used to write memo's and report's and give it to an admin to type out and send interoffice or mail.

Times change.

And, soon, AI will make you obsolete, too!

To say it clear, to say it cold
It's over, it ain't going
Any further (do, do, do)
And now the wheels of heaven stop
You feel the devil's riding crop
Get ready for the future
It is murder (do, do, do)

- Leonard Cohen, The Future

No way will AI be as smooth, smug and sarcastic as I am.

I’m an original.

[CatsbyAZ]

And to think the ACC wanted these two exciting football programs:

[Merkin]

Never seen such a decline in college football attendance than the Bay Area schools. Both schools have fairly new much smaller stadiums.

The Big Game attendance in 1935 was 94K. "The Play" Big Game attendance was 76K. Last season Big Game 52K.

[Merkin]

Good point here, and perhaps Arizona's football future in the B12. Not that UA has ever won a sole conference championship in the PAC or WAC.

[Carcassdragger]

Never seen such a decline in college football attendance than the Bay Area schools. Both schools have fairly new much smaller stadiums.

The Big Game attendance in 1935 was 94K. "The Play" Big Game attendance was 76K. Last season Big Game 52K.

And here I'm thinking we're about to sell out the OSU game. Damn, sometimes I wish I lived in Tucson.

[Catintheheat]

As many of you know I live in Maine. Frankly, no one cares cares about college sports here except for UConn basketball. Knowing the area more I believe UConn should join the Big 12. The reason is they will be supported by all of New England. And not just the Storrs area. They are a sleeping giant in the area due to untapped support. I fully support UConn joining the B12 providing they fund their football program.

[wyo-cat]

I used to work with this ol’ boy from NW Conn and went to UConn.

He was a bigger redneck than me from Midwest/Down Home.

[EastCoastCat]

As many of you know I live in Maine. Frankly, no one cares cares about college sports here except for UConn basketball. Knowing the area more I believe UConn should join the Big 12. The reason is they will be supported by all of New England. And not just the Storrs area. They are a sleeping giant in the area due to untapped support. I fully support UConn joining the B12 providing they fund their football program.

Totally disagree . I have lived in CT for over 25 years and I have never seen a bigger group of fair weather fans. And I grew up in LA!

For a long time their women’s Bball team had more interest and support and that’s after their men’s team won a couple of Natty’s.

And their football program is a dumpster fire. Nobody goes to that wretched stadium in Hartford and there is zero tradition or recruiting base to attract talent.

You think the big 12 has truck stop towns? Go visit Storrs. It will make Stillwater look like Vegas.

[Catintheheat]

As many of you know I live in Maine. Frankly, no one cares cares about college sports here except for UConn basketball. Knowing the area more I believe UConn should join the Big 12. The reason is they will be supported by all of New England. And not just the Storrs area. They are a sleeping giant in the area due to untapped support. I fully support UConn joining the B12 providing they fund their football program.

Totally disagree . I have lived in CT for over 25 years and I have never seen a bigger group of fair weather fans. And I grew up in LA!

For a long time their women’s Bball team had more interest and support and that’s after their men’s team won a couple of Natty’s.

And their football program is a dumpster fire. Nobody goes to that wretched stadium in Hartford and there is zero tradition or recruiting base to attract talent.

You think the big 12 has truck stop towns? Go visit Storrs. It will make Stillwater look like Vegas.

I hear you and I see your point. Yet, there is nothing to cheer for. I don't understand UConn's disinterest when UConn isn't good. If that is the case UA has a far better fanbase. Disappointing for UConn if that is the case. Still... College sports isn't even considered where I live. They know UConn and nothing else. It is untapped. Give them a reason to believe and you have a product.

If I presented a contract to UConn, I would make improving the football facilities mandatory. That is a bind to the contract. If you can gain the support of apathetic New England, you may gain unrealized support. I see a ton of potential with UConn, but they need guided in the right direction. Get the people excited about college sports.

[wyo-cat]

I’m watching UVA at UNC on the CW.

Quite honestly, their production tops P12N.

[dmjcat]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/ ... f7e8&ei=12

[Merkin]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/ ... f7e8&ei=12

They do make a good point and I tend to agree with them. Did the PAC take away voting rights from USC and UCLA when they left first?


The case surrounds the two schools being the only voting members of the Pac-12 Board of Directors until the final judgment has been reached, as they are the two schools that have not announced a new conference to call home after the season.

Oregon State and Washington State have produced documents that support the claim as their bylaws state a member loses voting representation on the board when they withdraw from the league.

The two schools are saying they are afraid the other 10 members will out-vote them to distribute the financial assets, said to be worth more than $100 million, to themselves 12 ways instead of the two remaining members.

[TheCatInTheHat]

From a reasonableness perspective, while I'm somewhat sympathetic to their situation, I think it's hard to justify giving two schools each a whopping $50M windfall over a possible misapplication of conference by-laws. And the circumstance of two teams leaving is different than a de facto overall disbanding. I can also see some wiggle room for interpretation, in terms of when "leaving" happens. Is it when you announce it, or when you're done participating? Maybe USC and UCLA should have their voting rights reinstated until the last competition takes place in May or June. In any event, seems like a 12-way split of around $8M each for residual assets is appropriate. Other than commentators being clever, there is no "Pac-2." That's not viable, and it's just slapping lipstick on a pig when you add Fresno St or whoever. The Pac-12 is dead. Just divvy it up and move on.

[Merkin]

The PAC removed USC and UCLA when they left, so there is precedent.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2023/10/25/ ... rom-board/

That evidence, presented in an expedited discovery process, includes not only the “Briefing Book” but also two sworn statements by commissioner George Kliavkoff that USC and UCLA were removed from the board of directors after the thunderous news of their departures on June 30, 2022.

[pc in NM]

The PAC removed USC and UCLA when they left, so there is precedent.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2023/10/25/ ... rom-board/

That evidence, presented in an expedited discovery process, includes not only the “Briefing Book” but also two sworn statements by commissioner George Kliavkoff that USC and UCLA were removed from the board of directors after the thunderous news of their departures on June 30, 2022.

I'm gonna side with notOSU and Wazzu on this one. Every team that bailed did so exclusively based upon their own needs. They all QUIT the conference for more/continued money elsewhere. Too bad, so sad, that they made a miscalculation in this instance!

[U.P. Zona Fan]

I'm going to side with the beavs and cougs in this instance also. I feel like they got jacked in this whole debacle. They have financial commitments and budgets based on their previous income, that little cash infusion should give them some breathing room and ability to pay bills for a few years til they can restructure or build a new conference.

[TheCatInTheHat]

They couldn't find a chair when the music stopped, that's for sure. In any event, some judge will decide, and they get it right as often as they do. I'll throw out one final data point on the consistency issue. Comcast will withhold $70M from all 12 teams this year stemming from Scott's financial miscalculations. But I assume any settlement over the Holiday Bowl's lawsuit against the league over having to cancel the game in 2021 when UCLA wouldn't play due to some players having Covid would go against the $100M bucket of money, however it's divided.

[MountainCat]

Guess that means OSU and WSU can pay the Comcast bill on there own then....

[wyo-cat]

The PAC removed USC and UCLA when they left, so there is precedent.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2023/10/25/ ... rom-board/

That evidence, presented in an expedited discovery process, includes not only the “Briefing Book” but also two sworn statements by commissioner George Kliavkoff that USC and UCLA were removed from the board of directors after the thunderous news of their departures on June 30, 2022.

USC and UCLA haven’t submitted their notice of leaving yet.

That’s a problem for P2. There’s no precedent.

[pc in NM]

Major National Rivalry in the Big-12!!!

Arizona vs. Kansas!!!

Two football powers!!!

[azcat49]

Better get pay raises and extensions ready for both coaches. That KU coach will be in very high demand come this off season and Jedd will probably get some looks although I think he wants to stay a few more years

[Merkin]

With Fisch's resume having his longest stint being 3 years, I would lock him into a contract where his buyout is expensive, likewise the UA's buyout should also be expensive.

I don't think for a second that he wouldn't bail given the opportunity like Larry Smith did.

Fisch was a lifelong position coach which do change teams much more often. But for comparison, Duane Akina spent 13 years at Arizona, then 12 years at Texas, then 8 years at Stanford.

[azcat49]

I really think he wants to see th 22 recruiting class through unless maybe his dream school (maybe Florida?) comes calling.

We can win the Big 12 in the next three years. It’s not a very deep conference in football

[Merkin]

We can win the Big 12 in the next three years. It’s not a very deep conference in football

Can you imagine Fifita as a 5th year senior then?

You can play 4 games and still retain your redshirt status.

[UAEebs86]

I can't imagine wanting to get my head kicked in by going to one of those mega-football conferences but that's just me.

[TheCatInTheHat]

This is another round of kicking the Pac-12's corpse. I won't get into the relatively minor sports, how aesthetic some of the locations are, or the academic PR stuff, as it's mostly irrelevant at the end of the day.

You can make a case that the earliest indication of the Pac's demise was when the SEC, hitherto frozen-out of what had been considered "the granddaddy of them all", managed to entice the Big Ten and Pac to give up their exclusivity to the Rose Bowl with all the BCS BS. It was inevitable and necessary for recruiting to sell high schoolers that they could conceivably qualify for the biggest championship (although the SEC would pull strings to make that unlikely in the Pac.) But part of what was special about the Pac was that country club membership to Pasadena. I remember almost feeling physically ill watching some fat Texas drum major squeezed into too-tight white pants, a fringed shirt, and a cowboy hat waddle the length of the RB as part of their invasion for the 2006 halftime show. Since then, there have been some throw-back games, but it's never been the same.

The other thing is the UCLA/John Wooden history. That's associated purely with winning the Pac conference (by whatever name) and representing the Far West, particularly when it was a geographic NCAA tournament. Gail Goodrich, Kareem, the Walton Gang. That's been something of a living legacy in the Pac, but ironically, UCLA basically threw that on what is sometimes known as the trash heap of history when Big Brother USC dragged them by the nose into the Big Ten. There'll be nothing like the same cachet for UCLA's faded hoop history in that league, with all the hoop titles and history there. To be fair, in the last 40 years in the Pac, Arizona won 16 league titles to UCLA's 10, so the Wooden years were looking a little like Marty McFly in the photo. But it still meant more where it happened in the Pac. At the introductory media conference, UCLA's latest coach could recite a few lines from one of Wooden's books, and everybody in attendance would nod and say "he's alright." And hope would spring eternal that a new era of dominance would dawn. Frankly, I think we stomped that dream pretty good in Vegas last year. And I don't hear anyone saying there's any likely return in an environment of flights back to frigid country to play Purdue, Michigan St, Ohio St, Indiana, Illinois, etc, etc, etc.

Anyway, to me the continuing celebration of our last school year in the Pac it doesn't get old. Here's to going bowling, a last hurrah in Vegas for the hoops tournament, and a fare-thee-well and Thank God we finally escape all the attitudes, star treatment, and incompetence of the Pac-12 Conference.

[Merkin]

UA has never had a sole football conference championship in the WAC and PAC years.

If the UA FB program gets destroyed in the B12 so be it. But look at Kansas and Kansas State. Those programs sure got turned around. Even Fat Charlie couldn't fix Kansas.

On basketball, I imagine UCLA and UA will have an OOC game every season. That is just too good a rivalry to give up. Although USC and UCLA will probably never play the UA again in FB, same with UDub and Oregon. Just gains nothing by scheduling the Cats. ASU is probably a better game for them due to the PHX market.

[RichardCranium]

ASU is probably a better game for them due to the PHX market.

And, on average, an easier win in the long run.

[BBQ wildcat]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/washington ... 39157.html

washington-state-oregon-state-land-court-victory-against-pac-12-

[dmjcat]

I can't imagine wanting to get my head kicked in by going to one of those mega-football conferences but that's just me.

Thats actually a very good point, and one that I believe is being overlooked by a lot of the schools/fans that are making the move to the Super-Conferences for the Big Buck$.

Take Oklahoma/Texas for example. In the Big 12 there are plenty of teams to kick around that enable the Okla/Texas's of the world to get to 9-10 wins every year. But what happens when you join a Mega Conference with a lot of Alabamas/LSU's/Georgias???? In this new world there will be less sure wins every year......and more teams that can beat you. A middling Texas team (maybe ranked in the 20-25 range) that would still win 8-9 games in the Big 12 might be a 6 win team (or even worse) in the SEC. How are their fanbases going to like that???

The problem is simple...........Somebody has to lose in those megaconferences. When you band together a bunch of Power house teams somebody is going to have to lose who historically doesn't in their present conference.

USC/UCLA/UO/UW are going to be finding this out in their near future. Instead of 3 or 4 teams regularly competing for the conference title they will now have to bang heads with Michigan/OhioState/PennState..........not to mention all of the travel issues.

[Merkin]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/washington ... 39157.html

washington-state-oregon-state-land-court-victory-against-pac-12-

Saw a post on twitter than the P-2 should use $240M of it to buy the UA AD.

I can't imagine wanting to get my head kicked in by going to one of those mega-football conferences but that's just me.

Thats actually a very good point, and one that I believe is being overlooked by a lot of the schools/fans that are making the move to the Super-Conferences for the Big Buck$.

I imagine university presidents only care about the money. Look at these schools like Cal Poly that get paid $85K to get beat down by PAC schools in basketball.

[Catintheheat]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/washington ... 39157.html

washington-state-oregon-state-land-court-victory-against-pac-12-

Saw a post on twitter than the P-2 should use $240M of it to buy the UA AD.

I can't imagine wanting to get my head kicked in by going to one of those mega-football conferences but that's just me.

Thats actually a very good point, and one that I believe is being overlooked by a lot of the schools/fans that are making the move to the Super-Conferences for the Big Buck$.

I imagine university presidents only care about the money. Look at these schools like Cal Poly that get paid $85K to get beat down by PAC schools in basketball.

The $240 million dollars is a reduction in reserve. Arizona isn't broke, and it isn't the AD that is the biggest part of the problem. It is likely more to do with COVID. Nor do I believe Arizona is the only school with this problem, it is that they announced it. I guess many schools are in the same predicament.

[PHXCATS]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/washington ... 39157.html

washington-state-oregon-state-land-court-victory-against-pac-12-

Saw a post on twitter than the P-2 should use $240M of it to buy the UA AD.

I can't imagine wanting to get my head kicked in by going to one of those mega-football conferences but that's just me.

Thats actually a very good point, and one that I believe is being overlooked by a lot of the schools/fans that are making the move to the Super-Conferences for the Big Buck$.

I imagine university presidents only care about the money. Look at these schools like Cal Poly that get paid $85K to get beat down by PAC schools in basketball.

The $240 million dollars is a reduction in reserve. Arizona isn't broke, and it isn't the AD that is the biggest part of the problem. It is likely more to do with COVID. Nor do I believe Arizona is the only school with this problem, it is that they announced it. I guess many schools are in the same predicament.

Besides the $240 million reductions in reserve you are 100% correct.

[Merkin]

[Chicat]

Good for them.

[EastCoastCat]

I’m rooting for them to come out if this with some semblance of a conference.

[AzCatFan2]

State of WA Supreme Court has reversed the lower court decision to give Oregon State and WAZZU complete control of the PAC assets. I think this is good for us, but may handcuff the Beavers and Cougs as they attempt to rebuild the conference with WAC teams. Anyone else have a more informed opinion? https://www.espn.com/college-football/s ... 12-control

[wyo-cat]

It’s too bad two teams were stuck without chairs as the music stopped.

I don’t think this case is the answer they think it is. I’ve heard some crazy shit from PAC 2 fans.

The longer this goes on the worse it gets for them. Guess what, there’s higher courts in WA to appeal to after this.

[PHXCATS]

Again fuck realignment and fuck realignment stans

[Chicat]

Again fuck realignment and fuck realignment stans

[cerec_cat]

Think it is ironic that the 2 teams that started this, got their asses handed to them in conference play

[PHXCATS]

Good

[Merkin]

State of WA Supreme Court has reversed the lower court decision to give Oregon State and WAZZU complete control of the PAC assets. I think this is good for us, but may handcuff the Beavers and Cougs as they attempt to rebuild the conference with WAC teams. Anyone else have a more informed opinion? https://www.espn.com/college-football/s ... 12-control

Not sure if it's really a reversal. Just continuing the restraining order until a real trial can happen.

Seems pretty cut and dry in the contract. What am I missing? Any school that leaves the conference loses their voting rights. Lot of court decisions have gone against "what is right" and sticking to the letter of the contract.

[84Cat]

[dmjcat]

State of WA Supreme Court has reversed the lower court decision to give Oregon State and WAZZU complete control of the PAC assets. I think this is good for us, but may handcuff the Beavers and Cougs as they attempt to rebuild the conference with WAC teams. Anyone else have a more informed opinion? https://www.espn.com/college-football/s ... 12-control

Not sure if it's really a reversal. Just continuing the restraining order until a real trial can happen.

Seems pretty cut and dry in the contract. What am I missing? Any school that leaves the conference loses their voting rights. Lot of court decisions have gone against "what is right" and sticking to the letter of the contract.

Not sure that its all that "cut and dry".

What does leaving the conference mean legally?
Did the other 10 schools legally state they were leaving the conference?
Is their a timeframe when a conference member loses their voting rights? (is it immediate or when they complete the season?)
Did any of the 10 leaving issue a legal notice stating when they were officially leaving?? As far as I know the other 10 schools stated they were leaving AFTER the conclusion of the present season.

Lots to be sorted out by a judge.........especially if the legal definition of leaving (and the timeframe) are not specifically spelled out in the contract.

[PHXCATS]

again FUCK CONFERENCE REALIGNMENT

I am sure some will misinterpret that so here you go. I am glad UA landed in the Big 12. It was needed. But the entire thing fucking blows. FUCK CONFERENCE REALIGNMENT