2015 MLB Season

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 7:15 pm

MrBug708 wrote:The suspension will be overturned. The Union will walk in with hours worth of film similar to this

Two huge differences in those pics though: Murphy hits the ground way before second base and is actually sliding before he makes contact w the middle infielder. Utley hits the ground behind second base by a large margin and contacted Tejada at the same time he hit the ground. Might not seem like a huge deal but it is. You can still knock a dude on his ass with a good hard slide and not have a disregard for human life. How Utley went in though. Not saying hes the only one to do that recently, but its the worst ive seen in a long time.

I think Utleys suspension has a chance to get reduced to a game, but one of the only smart things Torre has done in all of this was live, on the air, saying hes not focusing on the past and only concerned w the present. Its a cheap way out but its probably enough to make something stick

MrBug708 · Post by **MrBug708** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 7:30 pm

Your argument was predicated on going near the base which Murphy wasn't doing. This is where consistency needs to be dictated in rule changes.

Using words like disregard for human life just cracks me up

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 7:34 pm

As an umpire if I'm going to call interference on any one of those 2 it would be Murphy's.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:29 am

MrBug708 wrote:Your argument was predicated on going near the base which Murphy wasn't doing. This is where consistency needs to be dictated in rule changes.

Using words like disregard for human life just cracks me up

azgreg wrote:As an umpire if I'm going to call interference on any one of those 2 it would be Murphy's.

Wrong, my argument is predicated on him starting his slide to the side of second base, even with it, and not landing until he beyond second base and at the same time he makes contact with Tejada. Murphy is still within arm's reach of the base and he slid well before the base which is within the rules. In the photo, his body is turned toward the middle infielder, yes, but there is no other context as to why. The ball is already out of the middle infielders hand there and Murphy is leading with his left leg. When you lead with your left, your momentum is going to pull your upper body toward the outfield when you get down to avoid a throw. When a middle infielder is going to release the ball, you duck so you don't wear one in the face. You don't duck straight back or you hit the back of your head on the dirt, you hit the deck and roll to the side. Like I said, Murphy has already hit the dirt and is sliding, his positioning tells you he had been sliding for a while. AZGreg, that slide happens every day in a 162 game major league season and nobody has a problem with it. There are issues when guys go out wider than that, and I've seen plenty of guys called for interference since baseball said you have to be within arms reach of the bag.

But you are right, there needs to be consistency and MLB needs to sit down with the Union and address this. What is going to have to happen is specific rules are going to have to be laid out. Eg: a player must start his slide and contact the infield dirt at least three feet before second base, and must slide directly into the base. Maybe baseball needs to make a formal "neighborhood play" rule so that can be enforced. Rules are already in place within reason, but the umpires aren't calling it, so now you have to break it down even further and minimize or eliminate any grey areas.

I don't know why disregard for human life cracks you up, maybe because you are a Dodgers fan and this is the only reason your team at home right now. When you are going full bore into someone without any protective gear, likely defenseless, without using the infield dirt to slow you down and you hit them, what is that? I wont say Utley's intent was to hurt Tejada. I doubt it was. But you still know his intent was to completely cream him, and at best, it was recklessness with no regard for his safety. But for christs sake, when have you ever heard of a middle infielder breaking their leg on a double play ball? Ligaments in knees, yea, but to break a leg it has to be absolutely brutal contact. I've seen a lot of upper level baseball on the field and in the dugout and been watching baseball my entire life. I've seen close to Utleys slide, even recently, but my response was "damn that was late" as opposed to "Jesus Christ." I didn't see the Hal McCrae slide live, but that is only time I have seen something like that and that was 30 years ago. There's a reason why there was a long line of hall of famers, all stars, world champions, etc who were outraged by Utleys slide. These are old school guys or guys who play like old school players too, Pedro, Viola, Sheffield, Justin Upton, and on and on. The only non-former player who never played with Utley I have seen defend it is Ripken, which is curious, but yeah.

MrBug708 · Post by **MrBug708** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:22 am

Justin upton? Lol

Pedro should stick to attacking old white men

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/just-a-bit ... eak-101115" target="_blank

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:18 am

Yea, Justin Upton. A guy who plays hard and with intensity (outside of the occasional temper tantrum/attitude problem when he doesn't run out a ball or lolly gags in the outfield) who has a reputation of being a guy you don't want sliding into second on a double play ball, but does so within reason. Maybe watch a little more baseball? The Dodgers are winning these days so no excuse for you LA folk

MrBug708 · Post by **MrBug708** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:31 am

Lol...Justin upton. Benji Gil too busy to tweet.

Obnoxious posts like watch more baseball make the hard to believe your painful myopic take.

Met's should just sign Ian Kennedy to throw at players heads. That should solve everything

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:34 am

Did the Dodgers get stuck in traffic on the way to the game?

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 11:24 am

MrBug708 wrote:Lol...Justin upton. Benji Gil too busy to tweet.

Obnoxious posts like watch more baseball make the hard to believe your painful myopic take.

Met's should just sign Ian Kennedy to throw at players heads. That should solve everything

I get it, homer. If you have a take other than posting a terrible internet meme involving two entirely different slides, I'd love to hear it. But your in the small minority here who defends this, almost entirely comprised of Dodgers and Utley fans, so I can see why my take could be considered myopic

And sorry for that, I assumed you would have seen Upton play more than once or twice seeing how he's been a division rival for most of his career. I also assumed you were like most LA fans who only care and watch if and when any of their teams are in the playoffs. My bad.

The Goat · Post by **The Goat** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:07 pm

Love Upton but he should probably just shut up about this whole slide into second shit:

MrBug708 · Post by **MrBug708** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:29 pm

rgdeuce wrote:
MrBug708 wrote:Lol...Justin upton. Benji Gil too busy to tweet.

Obnoxious posts like watch more baseball make the hard to believe your painful myopic take.

Met's should just sign Ian Kennedy to throw at players heads. That should solve everything
I get it, homer. If you have a take other than posting a terrible internet meme involving two entirely different slides, I'd love to hear it. But your in the small minority here who defends this, almost entirely comprised of Dodgers and Utley fans, so I can see why my take could be considered myopic

And sorry for that, I assumed you would have seen Upton play more than once or twice seeing how he's been a division rival for most of his career. I also assumed you were like most LA fans who only care and watch if and when any of their teams are in the playoffs. My bad.

You've really come off the rails

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 1:36 pm

The Goat wrote:Love Upton but he should probably just shut up about this whole slide into second shit:

Where's your beef with this?

Clearly slid before the bag, and right at the bag as his hand is still on it, before popping up upon making contact with the middle infielder with his backside. All within the rules and considered a hard nosed play at breaking up the double play ball. There's a difference between the Utley play and getting a great jump off the bat, busting your ass to second base and sliding in hard to the base with your spikes down. Without the benefit of Justin Upton footage, type justin upton breaks up double play into google images. Heres the first bunch of images.

That is a perfect "hard-nosed" double play breakup. You can see he started his slide well before the bag, check out trail in the dirt from the slide. Spikes are down as he passes Valdespin. He's within the rules of sliding toward the base as it is within his reach and he physically touches it. In the last pic you can see him well past the bag, but thats after he's been sliding for several feet and a product of his hustle and legal solid slide carrying his momentum past the base. When you are taught to break up a double play hard, this is how you are taught, which is why I referenced Upton for being the type of play he is before MrBugs giggles.

Next image, same thing, early slide, within arms reach of the bag. His right spike is up here but its after the bag and on his roll toward the infield. The only concern here is the high spike but I am willing to bet his spikes were down when he got up on Tulowitzki. Plus he didnt slide in with his foot flexed to his shin, which is what you do to expose your spikes if that is your intent. I have never ever seen Upton come in spikes high and you rarely see that these days anyhow.

This was the worst one I could find and I wish there were more than one snapshots of this. May look bad but it's without context. Regardless, you can see he clearly slide toward the bag and before it, evidence by the kicked up dry dirt in front of it. He obviously lost control after crossing the bag, which is completely normal when breaking up a double play hard. Still within the rules and I doubt anyone would consider this dirty.

That is Justin Upton to a T. Never heard of him once being called a dirty player or sliding in dirty to break up a double play, despite having the reputation at being one of the best hard-nosed guys to do it.

MrBug708 · Post by **MrBug708** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 2:19 pm

Cant believe this thread has turned into posts about how spikes up is hard nosed because it was "the right way"

At least we aren't talking about how more Dodger fans beat up another person

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 2:29 pm

Seeing how this has been the hot topic of the the 2015 playoffs, and this is a baseball thread... Sounds like someone is upset they don't have a rebuttal and their modus operandi to get under others' skin isn't working . Your last four posts have been great. But hey, you wanted to call out Upton.

MrBug708 · Post by **MrBug708** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 2:32 pm

Justin Upton and his spikes up is in the playoffs?

Alieberman · Post by **Alieberman** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 4:59 pm

CUBS!!!!!!!!!

Fuck the Cards!!!!!

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 5:18 pm

Congrats to the Cubs fans on the boards. Well played series by the cubs

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 5:22 pm

Fuck the Cards. Wainwright is seriously overrated in the post season.

Maybe next year the sport cognoscenti will get a clue. Doubtful.

But wait, its a even year...GO GIANTS!

MrBug708 · Post by **MrBug708** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 5:40 pm

Kershaw's legacy is on the line, and this isnt really his fault either.

ghostwhitehorse · Post by **ghostwhitehorse** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 6:05 pm

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:08 am

Crazy that both games yesterday (and likely two series, not seeing Greinke losing game 5) were lost on pitchers' inability to get a pitcher out. Two outs and Hammel delivers an RBI single, then a 3-run home run follows, four of their six runs. Kershaw singles with one out. Get him out and Hernandez is up with two outs and grounds out for the third. Instead, with two outs, Gonzalez knocks in one and Turner knocks in two, all three of the Dodgers runs.

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:54 pm

This Texas/Toronto game is a strange one.

wooha · Post by **wooha** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 4:10 pm

Well that was about the craziest inning of baseball I've ever seen

Catintheheat · Post by **Catintheheat** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:28 pm

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/cubs/po ... or-newyork" target="_blank

Seeing the Chicago Cubs in the National League Championship Series is a little like seeing a four-leaf clover -- it's uncommon, but nature does allow it from time to time. And after holding off the St. Louis Cardinals for a 6-4 win on Tuesday night at Wrigley Field, Chicago has stumbled across the rarest of shamrocks -- a legitimately dominant Cubs team on the cusp of the World Series.

Three earlier Cubs teams have breathed the crisp, autumnal NLCS air: the 1984, 1989 and 2003 teams. (The league championship series format was introduced in 1969.) Those three squads lost their respective series, but according to our Elo ratings, this year's NLCS-bound Cubs team is the strongest of the bunch. And even though they'll cede home-field advantage to either the New York Mets or Los Angeles Dodgers, the 2015 Cubs have the best chance of any of their predecessors at winning the NLCS and advancing to the World Series. Our ratings give the Cubs a 60 percent chance of reaching the World Series; it would be the team's first appearance there since 1945.

I am so excited for this team. Their starting pitching isn't great and their bullpen could be better, but damn! Almost their entire starting lineup are under 26 years old. Rookies Russell, Bryant, Schwarber, and Soler. So Russell goes down And Baez promptly contributes. This team is special and, IMO, the best Cubs team in my lifetime. They have a legitimate chance to win it all. They just beat the two teams with better records, and went 4-1 against them.

Okay I have to say it.

They remind me of the 97 Cats basketball team. They are the road team in every series but the undertow says something different. The Cubs now have the best record of all teams remaining and will not have the home field advantage. They have that swagger and this could be the year. I am enjoying life right now (I've seen dozens of games at Wrigley Field).

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:47 pm

Cubs are swinging it. The Dodgers or the Mets are going to be limping into the NLCS. If its the Dodgers, Greinke will be pitching game 3 in Chicago and probably game 7, maybe game 6 if the cubs are up 3-2. Kershaw is probably going game 2, so you wont see him three times either unless hes going on super short rest. Their lineup isn't going to give nightmares and I'd only be concerned with your pen in a close game. Im picking Cubs in 6 against either team.

catgrad97 · Post by **catgrad97** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:55 pm

Just to see the Cubs in a World Series in my lifetime, played at Wrigley Field, would be a dream on par with seeing the Cats in a Rose Bowl.

Grew up as a Cubs fan through most of the '80s and '90s before giving up on it ever happening. Now...can it really actually be the year?

But of course they'll probably face the Mets again this year, and the reason for divisional series will return as a ghost and make the Cubbies look bumbling.

MrBug708 · Post by **MrBug708** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:08 pm

Was hoping the Cubs would get dicked over for messing with Bryants service time. Thank offense is potent

MrBug708 · Post by **MrBug708** » Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:46 pm

I dont really blame this loss on Mattingly, but I dont think the front office feels like he's their guy

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:38 pm

Dodgers.

Try again next time.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:43 pm

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:37 am

That Jays Royals series is going to be must watch TV. Offense, tempers and hotheads, man. Those teams HATE each other and have been on the verge of royal rumbles a few times this year.

MrBug708 · Post by **MrBug708** » Fri Oct 16, 2015 9:16 am

Never thought we'd win it all once Ryu went down

Alieberman · Post by **Alieberman** » Fri Oct 16, 2015 9:29 am

Did the Dodgers really lose a 5 game series with Kershaw and Greinke pitching 4 of those games?

That's pathetic

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Fri Oct 16, 2015 9:55 am

MrBug708 wrote:Never thought we'd win it all once Ryu went down

Dodgers had Kershaw, Greinke and Ryu in 13 and 14, same result. Anderson is a respectable number 3 this year. Regardless, if you cannot win a 5 game series, with two of the four best pitchers in baseball pitching four of those five games, the issue is clearly not pitching. That series was over in three games had things not been bent/overlooked/ignored with the Utley slide. And that's against a Mets team that, absent Murphy, struggled offensively for the most part outside of Game 3. And Dodger nation is blaming Mattingly right now. I do not think Mattingly is a good manager by any stretch, but hes not the reason the Dodgers are home now.

Dodgers lost game 5 because their guys came up with runners in scoring position and were swinging for the three-run homerun, rather than shortening up and driving the ball up the middle and taking the RBI, one at a time. DeGromm was on the ropes all night. When you have Kershaw and Greinke on the mound, you play for one run at a time because you know those guys 9 times out of 10 (except kershaw in a lot of playoff games) aren't going to give up many runs. Mattingly gets some blame obviously, maybe he's not the best at checking egos, but can you blame the guy? It's hard checking a team with a $280 million dollar payroll.

Ultimately, the Dodgers killed themselves. This is a top down thing. Most people outside of Giants fans never had issues with the Dodgers over the years. Magic Johnson comes along and his personality trickles down. His personality is great in the NBA, baseball is a different game, a different audience, and a different story. That cockiness, that "showtime" trickles down to the players whether anyone wants to believe it or not. Next thing you know, they are jumping in and pissing in people's pools, mouthing off to other teams frequently, Kershaw's giggling like a high school kid and thinking its a joke when Mets fans are booing Utley before Game 3, etc. Even when the Dodgers had Strawberry and Eric Davis they weren't like this. The Dodgers payroll is not the only reason they are hated like the Yankees now. They've spent recklessly, have loads of bad contracts, bring in bad character guys, guys who previously were good character guys are turning into A holes. They have Greinke and Kershaw, so all regular season, its show up, knock the ball around the yard and we are good. They got fat and lazy because they could. But when the going gets tough, they do not know how to do the little things offensively to win games, and they do not know how to leave their regular season egos in the clubhouse. Taking huge swings with runners in scoring position in a deciding game with Greinke on the mound is EGO. That's all it is. They know better. And the team leadership sucks. Adrian Gonzalez is a terrible leader. He never won crap in San Diego, he was a problem in Boston, and hes not doing his job in LA. That stuff may not seems like it matters, but it does.

MrBug708 · Post by **MrBug708** » Fri Oct 16, 2015 10:10 am

Magic has zero influence on the Dodgers. What a terrible take and I'll just attribute it to lazy LA hating myopia.

You blame the team for swinging for the fences but that is Mattingly's AL style. He's not small minded at all. The Dodgers and Angels have the wrong Manger for the way the team is built and has been for his tenure. It's true the Dodgers don't have leaders but your ego comments reek of trying to get in a "dig" for me not acknowledging your Utley comments as anything worthwhile.

You seem to have some knowledge and the potential for good takes, but you are letting your own bias create stories put of nothing to confirm your hate

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Fri Oct 16, 2015 10:19 am

RG's post was spot on . . . right up until he blamed Magic Johnson. From there it went off the rails.

Jefe · Post by **Jefe** » Fri Oct 16, 2015 10:38 am

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Fri Oct 16, 2015 10:52 am

I don't know what wrong with the Dodgers but i really can't believe they lost a 5 game series to the mets. That was a shocker.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:31 am

MrBug708 wrote:Magic has zero influence on the Dodgers. What a terrible take and I'll just attribute it to lazy LA hating myopia.

You blame the team for swinging for the fences but that is Mattingly's AL style. He's not small minded at all. The Dodgers and Angels have the wrong Manger for the way the team is built and has been for his tenure. It's true the Dodgers don't have leaders but your ego comments reek of trying to get in a "dig" for me not acknowledging your Utley comments as anything worthwhile.

You seem to have some knowledge and the potential for good takes, but you are letting your own bias create stories put of nothing to confirm your hate

No dig at you at all, I promise. I may come off my rocker sometimes, but I don't hold grudges over message board arguments or disagreements, and if you look up several posts, I let you have the last word on that whole Upton thing because it was silly and it's over and done. I'm not going to kick you while you're upset, mad, or disappointed because your team lost. We've all been there, and my team can't even finish 500 these days or beat the Dodgers.

Yes, Mattingly played in the American League. He also played primarily in the 80s, when baseball games were won with pitching, speed, and defense. Stolen bases, hit and run, hitting behind the runner, putting the ball in play with two strikes. He was teammates with Rickey Henderson and Willie Randolph. Mattingly had good power numbers in his days because he knew how to take advantage of that short porch in right, but he was one of the most pure hitters of his era. He used the whole field, knew situational hitting and rarely struck out. He was primarily managed by guys like Billy Martin and Lou Pineilla, old school guys who didn't manage gorilla ball.

Yes, I despise the Dodgers and I love poking fun at LA fans (all sports) because there is truth to a large portion of the fan base. But to give a little background: my father is a Dodgers fan, born and raised in southern California, and I was pretty much raised a Dodgers fan until I got to an age where I wanted to pick my own team and be different. My father has friends who played in that organization in the 80s, one of my earliest memories is being on the field before a dodger game and being picked up and having my hair messed up by Sandy Koufax. If the Dodgers were in the playoffs and my team wasn't, I rooted for the Dodgers. I was a big Ethier fan after playing against him in high school and in college. He was the best player I ever saw while being on the field, and I've shared the field with at least 15 major leaguers and two guys who have been to multiple all star games. I loved Matt Kemp and wanted to go on a crime spree when he got robbed of an MVP by Ryan Braun. That slowly started to change in 2012, saw some stuff in 13 I didnt like, then the pool incident. That's when I stopped rooting for the Dodgers. Everything subsequent to that incident has gradually turned it into despising them.

Now you and Chi may disagree with my take on Magic, and that's fine. But I'm not the only one who feels that way and I know several Dodgers fans who don't like the way things have gradually shifted since his arrival. When he was hired, he immediately made statements along the lines of, "this is gonna be the new show in LA." He brought some new energy to the team and the city and that's fine, but with Magic's type of energy, the good is going to come with the bad. The same thing would happen if Mark Cuban ever became an owner, which is why baseball fought to the death to keep him out. The Dodgers already had a solid fan base and to me, they are the only organization/university the city truly stays behind (for the most part) win or lose. But Magic wanted to take them to the next level, make them like the Showtime Lakers, and was on the record saying as much. This was going to be the new show in the city. Shows bring in the fans who didn't care about the Dodgers before it was a show. The diehards get pushed to the Pavilion seats. Shows inflate egos. Egos lead to dumb things, like swimming in and pissing in pools.

Baseball and sports in general start at the top. See the Yankees, see the cowboys, see the steelers, see the patriots. That's Magic. Someone who has been around the game, knows the game, and knows expectations within the game doesn't let that crap fly. If it does happen, people get reeled back in. Magic is ignorant to all of that. You can't blame him for it, basketball is a completely different game. But I'm sure there have been lots of people around him who have put the word in his ear, and, based on things continuing to snowball, I bet nothing has been said. Add to the fact that he has that showman personality, that cocky (which I can appreciate) persona needed to be one of the three greatest NBA players of all time, that "look at me look at me," that rubs off on and has an effect on all those below him, especially the players. Then the young guys come in, Puig, Kershaw, Turner, guys who are immature in general and by baseball standards. Puig's a punk and there aren't many in baseball who will argue that. Kershaw has a chance to be one of the all-time great pitchers, but the dude still handles himself like an 18-year-old in the rookie leagues. Laughing while your teammate gets booed by Mets fans like its a big joke, ok, thats fine, but not when a dude got seriously injured on the play. I know people think Turner is over the top sometimes, though I personally have no issues with anything he has done and I think hes a hell of a ballplayer.

Aside from that personality rubbing off on others, Showtime, means bringing in the big stars, the big names, the big (and bad contracts). Theres a pressure to put the best team on the field year in and year out to keep that Showtime. The easy way to do that is throwing out money. Their payroll was what, 280 mil, and they are over $350 after the luxury tax? Their GM is a genius, a well-educated numbers cruncher with no baseball experience. So now you are focusing on compiling a team of the best players, not the best guys for the organization or the best guys to actually build a well-rounded team in terms of winning once things get to the playoffs.

MrBug708 · Post by **MrBug708** » Fri Oct 16, 2015 4:22 pm

1. I think my biggest issue with the whole Utley thing is you assumed what my opinion was, despite me never actually saying it. That's why I thought most of your take was nonsense.
2. He might have played under those coaches, but that doesn't mean that is his philosophy. He's struggled adapting to the NL style of play and it's shown. I don't think it was as big of a deal this year because he didn't have the power he's had in the past two years, but it's been a huge concern.
3. Nice stories, but it severely clouds your judgement.
4. You've talked to Dodger fans? I have as well. They said that Dodger fans are the greatest and none of them would ever hurt a fly. Here is the biggest flaw. You spent all this time thinking Magic is the owner and has a say in the clubhouse and the philosophy. You know what Magic's role is? His role is to show up and talk with fans. That's. It. He has no say on anything other than maybe local marketing. He doesn't make any business decisions. He doesn't make any philosophical decisions. He doesn't make any baseball decisions. He doesn't make any personnel decisions. He might sit in on meetings, but he's not doing anything with the Dodgers than cashing a paycheck. He added 50 million to the purchase cost, not because the Guggenheim group needed the money, but because they needed to buy back the goodwill the McCourt's lost. I mean, Frank ruined the best fan support in all of sports. Magic was supposed to get fans back in. He's not dictating anything for the Dodgers. He's share of the team is 2.3%. You think they let him make any decisions? Of course not. That's why anything following your rant on Magic was nonsense and not worth following. The rest of this paragraph explains the bitterness re: pool.
5. Kershaw immature? Way, way to really gain some credibility. Here is a video of it all. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhKYSs42K1s" target="_blank If your not too busy to watch, half the Dodgers are smiling after every name is booed. For someone who watches a lot of baseball, I thought you would have been a little more aware of things like this. As for Puig, water is wet. It's just how he is. As for Turner, I like how you mention him for some random reason (I guess Chris Hatcher just lost out via the random number generator), but the second biggest headcase on the team after Puig is probably Ethier. But you played with him, so he must be cool and not worth a mention.
6. Your showtime nonsense has created more nonsense in this last paragraph. Our "GM" didn't play baseball, but our president of baseball operations (Andrew Friedman) played college baseball at Tulane. The rest of it isn't how the Dodgers are going to operate at all. There is a serious push to NOT sign Zach Greinke because the team doesn't want to be like the aging Yankees were, a team full of overpriced aging veterans pushing 40. Yes, with that payroll they need to win (Let's just ignore your asinine Showtime take) and they are trying to shift what they inherited and did when they took over.
I'll run down the bad contracts
1. Kershaw - Face of the franchise
2. Greinke - FA; possible resigning, likely reigning Cy Young
3. Adrian Gonzalez - 21 million for 3 more years. Highly paid, possibly overpriced, but still an elite player
4. Carl Crawford - Way overpriced. They'll probably buy him out. This management group traded for him, but he was the price of AGon. I'd expect him to be released this offseason
5. Ethier - Bad contract, signed by McCourt, efforts have been made to trade him. Known malcontent, possibly traded this offseason with the Dodgers likely to eat some of the contract
6. Utley - Cost them about 3 million dollars in contract plus a 2 million dollar buyout. FA
7. McCarthy - A bad deal due to injury. If he's healthy, which will likely be never, a good option. Makes 12 million per year
8. Rollins - FA now after getting 11 million this year
9. Anderson - 10 million. Should get a bigger deal elsewhere
10. Kendrick - 9.5 million, he was essentially a one year guy. Maybe they pick him up for another year. I would have kept Heaney myself. Trade Gordon was the wrong move
11. Guerrero was a speculation buy and probably will be dealt this offseason.
12. Puig is on a friendly deal that is close to souring. Wouldnt be surprised to seem him traded, but he really has no value right now
13. JP Howell probably wont get his 6.5 extension picked up
14. Ryu has a team friendly deal
15. Everyone else isnt making much.

Players not on the team:
1. Brian Wilson. They took a gamble he could still pitch and he couldn't. Deal off the books.
2. Dan Haren. They paid him 10 million to go away. In hindsight, they probably could have used him, but they didnt know they'd have essentially 3 starters all year.
3. Hector Olivera. He's included in that 280 million, but it was essentially his bonus. They used his signing to basically get top tier prospects in trades. The Dodgers essentially turned to a European Soccer and NBA model of acquiring talent through money and other players. Give us something good for your bad players. They have cash to burn. Not bothering to research the 280 million payroll, I could understand your take, but have a little less arrogance and "know it all" attitude about how it's being handled.
4. Bronson Arroyo. He was another bad contract the Dodgers took on for young players. They didn't sign him, that was the D-Backs, but the Dodgers just used his contract as a way to build their farm system.
5. Matt Kemp's contract is being paid off because, as with speculation on Greinke, the Dodgers management doesn't want to have aging players on declining contracts. To them, it was worth it to get an All Star caliber C now with Kemp still mostly in his prime, before he becomes another Crawford/Ethier where nobody wants them even with their salary being paid for.

Getting back to the last paragraph, they are doing exactly that. With all of those contracts off the book, and improving their farm system, the Dodgers payroll is getting slashed by basically 50% with the Greinke opt out. Their payroll next year sits at 158 million. I would imagine you'll see another headline that reads "Dodgers owe 50 million dollars to players not on roster" next year if Ethier and Crawford move on. They are going to sign another pitcher (or at least I hope) and Friedman, oh wait, Zhadi, will probably be active in the trade market, but the 280 million this year was a way to try and shift the focus on rebuilding the farm system and clearing up a lot of inherited problems. Not giving out bad contracts because they want to replicate some nonsense issue like "Showtime" because Magic Johnson said it in his press conference.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Fri Oct 16, 2015 4:31 pm

Cute story Bug.

But the Dodgers simply have shriveled nuts in the post-season.

We could've told that Brian Wilson was washed up. But thanks for taking our sloppy seconds.

GO GIANTS.

MrBug708 · Post by **MrBug708** » Fri Oct 16, 2015 4:36 pm

Water is Wet. UCLA beats Arizona. Dodgers can't perform in the postseason.

It's the way of the world.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:38 am

I'll try to keep it as brief as possible Bug.

1) You post a picture of two entirely different slides in the context of, look, nobody has a problem with this one, but Utley's is a problem. Sorry for assuming that too was your stance on it.
2) Maybe Mattingly is just not a good manager? I don't think Mattingly has a style, AL or NL to be honest. You don't have to play NL style to be successful in the NL either. Your organization has a philosophy and the best managers adapt to their personnel and the type of field they play on half the season.
3) Not sure how liking a team for more than 4/5 of my life clouds my judgment. If anything, it shows some insight as to what has happened in the organization in the last few years.
4) You are naive if you think Magic's only influence and role is that. He isn't in meetings saying "we need a utility guy who can put the ball in play and get on base, lets go after Ben zobrist," but he's the recognizable face. He's the athlete of the partnership. He isn't in the clubhouse chopping it up with players at all? Athletes are going to be influenced by hall of fame athletes, any sport, more than some gray-haired white guy. When ownership changed, who was the man always in front of the mic most of the time?
5) Right, the Dodgers are smiling. But you have to know when to shut it down. You shut it down when it gets to Utley. You posted a video that doesn't show Kershaws face when Utley is booed. There was another video on twitter with a view showing Kershaws reaction that was tweeted during that game. And thats just one example. I'm not against starting pitchers being fiery when they need to be, but he's a guy who is always barking from the dugout. He reacts to in-game stuff in the dugout like kids in the little league world series. He's immature. And Ethier was never like that. The first questionable thing I ever saw from his was when he joined the Dodgers in the pool. Not defending him at all, but he's clearly been through some BS in that organization and frustrated. He's a guy who needs a change of scenery.
6) Jesus Christ. I guess I was talking about the future in my argument? Or was I talking about how crap went down when there was a change in ownership? My point was all that got the Dodgers into the financial situation they are in now. I have no doubts Friedman, who is a smart dude, will make sure that gets curbed back. It just shows how they had to bring in a guy to oversee these sort of things because the franchise was on the verge of being crippled under the new management.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:21 am

Cubs have an uphill battle with unfavorable pitching matchups in games 3 and 4, but it's not the end of the world. A nice wind blowing out at Wrigley benefits the Cubs. And while the mets pitching has been outstanding (I'd expect more of the same the rest of the series), eventually Murphy is going to stop killing you. Or you can stop pitching to him, or giving him balls down and in. Other than Granderson, he is the only guy killing you outside of a few timely hits from a few others. A lot of that lineup couldn't hit water if they fell out of a boat right now. I don't even think a sweep is necessary, but they HAVE to stop the bleeding in Game 3 and win one of games 4 and 5. Mets arms are young and haven't been through this deep of a run. Harvey is going beyond what everyone wanted. Push the series to 6 and 7, arms may start to wear out and tire, and that bullpen (outside of Familia) is where you need to and can kill them.

Alieberman · Post by **Alieberman** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:18 am

After game 1, I was pretty much feeling that game 2 would decide the series.

Not feeling very optimistic about my Cubbies today

MrBug708 · Post by **MrBug708** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:46 pm

rgdeuce wrote:I'll try to keep it as brief as possible Bug.

1) You post a picture of two entirely different slides in the context of, look, nobody has a problem with this one, but Utley's is a problem. Sorry for assuming that too was your stance on it.
2) Maybe Mattingly is just not a good manager? I don't think Mattingly has a style, AL or NL to be honest. You don't have to play NL style to be successful in the NL either. Your organization has a philosophy and the best managers adapt to their personnel and the type of field they play on half the season.
3) Not sure how liking a team for more than 4/5 of my life clouds my judgment. If anything, it shows some insight as to what has happened in the organization in the last few years.
4) You are naive if you think Magic's only influence and role is that. He isn't in meetings saying "we need a utility guy who can put the ball in play and get on base, lets go after Ben zobrist," but he's the recognizable face. He's the athlete of the partnership. He isn't in the clubhouse chopping it up with players at all? Athletes are going to be influenced by hall of fame athletes, any sport, more than some gray-haired white guy. When ownership changed, who was the man always in front of the mic most of the time?
5) Right, the Dodgers are smiling. But you have to know when to shut it down. You shut it down when it gets to Utley. You posted a video that doesn't show Kershaws face when Utley is booed. There was another video on twitter with a view showing Kershaws reaction that was tweeted during that game. And thats just one example. I'm not against starting pitchers being fiery when they need to be, but he's a guy who is always barking from the dugout. He reacts to in-game stuff in the dugout like kids in the little league world series. He's immature. And Ethier was never like that. The first questionable thing I ever saw from his was when he joined the Dodgers in the pool. Not defending him at all, but he's clearly been through some BS in that organization and frustrated. He's a guy who needs a change of scenery.
6) Jesus Christ. I guess I was talking about the future in my argument? Or was I talking about how crap went down when there was a change in ownership? My point was all that got the Dodgers into the financial situation they are in now. I have no doubts Friedman, who is a smart dude, will make sure that gets curbed back. It just shows how they had to bring in a guy to oversee these sort of things because the franchise was on the verge of being crippled under the new management.

I'll keep it even simpler. You have no idea on most of these points. No sense in keep trying to rehash it when you refuse to see the forest for the trees.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:01 pm

Lol. The ivy just saved the Cubs' season. Crazy.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:06 pm

MrBug708 wrote:

I'll keep it even simpler. You have no idea on most of these points. No sense in keep trying to rehash it when you refuse to see the forest for the trees.

You have an interesting way of waving a white flag, kind sir.

MrBug708 · Post by **MrBug708** » Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:09 pm

I could agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong. I'll let you win the internet today, kind sir

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:34 am

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