let's talk '17

[Spaceman Spiff]

PJC is the reason, we're going to need him to be the backup. If you take him out of the lineup, someone has to be the primary ball handler because we don't have a Kadeem Allen next year.

So hopefully Trier (I don't see him returning) or Kobi return, one of those is going to be the primary ball handler (1 guard), and Rawle will be the 2, who else is filling the 3rd spot in the lineup? Randolph? Smith? Lee? If Rawle is at the 3, who's the 2?

Like this year, our best lineup (Allen, Trier, Rawle, Lauri, Dusan) won't include PJC next year either. So a couple of possibilities

Trier or Kobi
Rawle
____
Ayton
Chance

Or

Trier or Kobi
____
Rawle
Ayton
Chance

Who's filling the hole in either lineup?

I simply don't trust PJC to be the starter the whole way, great backup. But he won't be part of the best lineup, the one we roll out vs the better teams or the late game, clutch lineup. The only way Rawle at the 3 works is if we have PJC at the 1, which I don't see it tbh.

Duval would be much bigger than Bowen.

We have wings. If 2 of Rawle/Zo/Kobi return, we are set. PG, I worry we wind up with a super talented lineup wondering if the PG can be good enough to make it.

[ChooChooCat]

PJC is the reason, we're going to need him to be the backup. If you take him out of the lineup, someone has to be the primary ball handler because we don't have a Kadeem Allen next year.

So hopefully Trier (I don't see him returning) or Kobi return, one of those is going to be the primary ball handler (1 guard), and Rawle will be the 2, who else is filling the 3rd spot in the lineup? Randolph? Smith? Lee? If Rawle is at the 3, who's the 2?

Like this year, our best lineup (Allen, Trier, Rawle, Lauri, Dusan) won't include PJC next year either. So a couple of possibilities

Trier or Kobi
Rawle
____
Ayton
Chance

Or

Trier or Kobi
____
Rawle
Ayton
Chance

Who's filling the hole in either lineup?

I simply don't trust PJC to be the starter the whole way, great backup. But he won't be part of the best lineup, the one we roll out vs the better teams or the late game, clutch lineup. The only way Rawle at the 3 works is if we have PJC at the 1, which I don't see it tbh.

1. Kobi is not returning.
2. If Zo or Kobi were our primary ball handler next year then we're already screwed. The position goes to PJC unless Arizona lands Duval or brings in another guy via grad transfer.
3. If Zo and Rawle play alongside each other next year neither will be playing the 1. One will be at the 2 and the other at the 3. I'm unsure where that take is controversial to you.
4. If PJC is the best 1 we have on roster he is starting there. You don't force a square peg into a round hole and force guys who are not even facilitators to play the 1 unless you have absolutely no choice.

[NYCat]

Duval would be much bigger than Bowen.

We have wings. If 2 of Rawle/Zo/Kobi return, we are set. PG, I worry we wind up with a super talented lineup wondering if the PG can be good enough to make it.

Duval solves the problem, an instant starter with a good backup, but he's not coming here.

1. Kobi is not returning.
2. If Zo or Kobi were our primary ball handler next year then we're already screwed. The position goes to PJC unless Arizona lands Duval or brings in another guy via grad transfer.
3. If Zo and Rawle play alongside each other next year neither will be playing the 1. One will be at the 2 and the other at the 3. I'm unsure where that take is controversial to you.
4. If PJC is the best 1 we have on roster he is starting there. You don't force a square peg into a round hole and force guys who are not even facilitators to play the 1 unless you have absolutely no choice.

1. Dumb move
2. Don't see Trier coming back, one more year won't do anything but expose the holes in his game. He isn't athletic enough, isn't a 3 & D/not good defensively, no upside/potential unlike Kobi, not a great shooter etc. Guys like him and NJ and other combo's just aren't good enough for the association IMO.
3. Isn't controversial to me, but someone has to get them them the ball and open driving lanes. I don't see PJC doing that.
4. He isn't leading the team to a deep run. Unless we land Duval, yes he'll be the starter, but he's going to get killed on defense, his offense -if any- is inconsistent, he'll have to be subbed out vs better teams/guards.

And there's no viable player behind him to do that, which means running out of position lineups because that's puts our best players on the court - and those lineups won't include PJC.

So there's still the question -assuming we don't get Duval- of who plays alongside Trier, Rawle, Ayton, Chance when we need to have our best players out there and need someone to be the primary ball handler?

[ChooChooCat]

1. Kobi is not returning.
2. If Zo or Kobi were our primary ball handler next year then we're already screwed. The position goes to PJC unless Arizona lands Duval or brings in another guy via grad transfer.
3. If Zo and Rawle play alongside each other next year neither will be playing the 1. One will be at the 2 and the other at the 3. I'm unsure where that take is controversial to you.
4. If PJC is the best 1 we have on roster he is starting there. You don't force a square peg into a round hole and force guys who are not even facilitators to play the 1 unless you have absolutely no choice.

1. Dumb move
2. Don't see Trier coming back, one more year won't do anything but expose the holes in his game. He isn't athletic enough, isn't a 3 & D/not good defensively, no upside/potential unlike Kobi, not a great shooter etc. Guys like him and NJ and other combo's just aren't good enough for the association IMO.
3. Isn't controversial to me, but someone has to get them them the ball and open driving lanes. I don't see PJC doing that.
4. He isn't leading the team to a deep run. Unless we land Duval, yes he'll be the starter, but he's going to get killed on defense, his offense -if any- is inconsistent, he'll have to be subbed out vs better teams/guards.

And there's no viable player behind him to do that, which means running out of position lineups because that's puts our best players on the court - and those lineups won't include PJC.

So there's still the question -assuming we don't get Duval- of who plays alongside Trier, Rawle, Ayton, Chance when we need to have our best players out there and need someone to be the primary ball handler?

1. No arguments here
2. If he does come back it'll have every thing to do with the fact he's had such a short season, hasn't lit it up (outside of this past weekend) and the following draft is weaker. I don't disagree with most of what you said though, but that doesn't mean he doesn't return.
3. So Zo or Rawle starting at the 1 would get players the ball and open driving lanes? Color me not convinced, especially on Zo. Here's the deal either Sean Miller is confident that PJC can effectively do that while playing 30 minutes per game or he's not. If he's not then Sean Miller will bring a player in to do it. He's always done just that, so I wouldn't worry and I certainly wouldn't default to OMG we need Zo or Rawle to play a position they are ill served in playing.
4. No disagreement there.

They don't say there's three different recruiting seasons for nothing. Grad transfer recruiting season should be very active. There's numerous PG types who can grad transfer that are currently at smaller schools FYI. Let's be patient here.

[PennZona20]

Duval is probably going to Kansas Or Duke IMO, but it has virtually nothing to do with the results of the game that occurred during his visit. It's about his brand. Both of those schools have a vacancy at point guard and a brand with greater recognition. Duval is thinking about his pro career in making his college decision and the UCLA-AZ results have no impact on that.

I disagree w PG vacancy. Not at Duke anyway. Frank Jackson ain't leaving and he's better than PJC.

Kansas maybe and I guess the brand at both those schools is a little higher profile.

Frank Jackson has 0 PG in him, besides his size. A LITTLE higher profile? Duke and Kansas are on ESPN at 8 pm ET like 15 times a year.

Nothing we can do about time zones ..... we play on the west coast. 8pm Eastern is before most people
Are done w work out west.

[PennZona20]

We got Rawle to commit right after losing to Oregon, stop over thinking shit

We were by far and away his best actual offer at the time.

Are we not Bowens best that he's considering??

Outside of Sparty it isn't close.

and if a guy like Duval can't look at the possibilities of playing w Ayton and whatever returning talent we have then idk what to tell him.

We came on strong for Ferg, Simmons, Alkins , and even JJ late. I think barring the whole squad coming back, Miller will close strong w one big time guy.

Also a little birdie told me an NC St kid w Pittsburgh ties will traditional transfer next year if there's room next year. Forget his name but he seemed like a roll player.

Bowen narrowed his list after receiving numerous high major offers. Rawle's actual options were Arizona, NC State, and St. John's. Now there was a reason for that, which has nothing to do with the player Rawle is and the person he is, but we were by far and away his best offer. Bowen's Final Five are well above Rawle's choices and Bowen eliminated other better options too prior.

Duval will have talent to play with at Duke or Kansas too. I wouldn't be mad at him for going to either of those schools over us. Then again chances are good he doesn't go to school at all either way.

I took a look at NC State's roster and I don't see any kid from PA on their team. That doesn't mean no one on that team has Pitt ties, but there's legitimately nobody on the roster outside of Maverick Rowan that would be worth bringing as a traditional transfer. Maybe Markell Johnson, but I'd hope we could land a better PG in 2018 than have to bring him in.

If I'm looking at a transfer possibility, this is my guy as a grad transfer: http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket ... rcus-keene" target="_blank

We just got his AD...

Maverick Rowan was the name of the kid mentioned. Is he any good? I don't know enough about him. I was told "if there's room after declarations and transfers and such, he's the kid we will get as a traditional transfer" by someone who knows the Miller family very, very well.

[PennZona20]

I don't see how Trier would affect Bowen playing small forward on the 2018 team. Lauri, maybe if we play him at the 3 with Ayton at the 4, which I don't really like that idea (preferably Lauri/Ayton @ the (4/5). He'd get killed by athletic 3s or 3 guard lineups.

Rawle? I can't possibly believe he's thinking of leaving, he's behind Kobi, Trier - likely missing the 2nd round entirely. Rawle is combo guard not a 3.

If I had to guess who it is, it's Lauri. His family has said they want him in college 2 years, so not that crazy of an idea. Even if unlikely.

How would Lauri impact a 3 man?

Rawle has predominantly played the 3 all year long and not once has he played point guard, which he'd have to to make him a combo guard. He obviously can play the 2 as well, but once again depends on the lineup. Trier plays the 2 and 3 pending on the lineup.

Think of it this way, if both Rawle and Trier returned next year, two guys who would not return to come off the bench mind you, would that affect Bowen?

He may impact the 3mans vision to be a star on a team. Especially if he's already gonna be behind Ayton coming in. Especially if he's considering being a big fish in a small pond at creighton.

Give me a soph Lauri or a junior trier over a frosh Bowen anyway though.

[PennZona20]

Ok I just looked up Rowan. Not a pg but looks good. Vaguely remember his recruiting as a top 50 kid. So he'd sit for 2 years and 2 years to play ala tj.

He also played 2 years in Pitt at Lincoln so he has pitt ties and that was 100% the name guy mentioned to me. The guy is a pitt hs coach and connected. I firmly believe he's telling the truth. Things can always change and there may not be room if Miller pulls off witchcraft and gets Duval but all things considered I think we want this kid. Especially for 18 and 19 when he'd suit up.

I'm with you I'd take a scoring pg like the midget for CMU who drops 40 a game first but I think a senior healthy confident PJC might be better than any other options we have barring a Duval type steal.

[VegasCatFan]

Is anything expected of Dylan Smith next year or is he just a body for practice that's taking up a scholarship? If I remember, he looked totally overmatched in the Red-Blue game.

[PennZona20]

I could see him being a guard version of Pinder at best next year. Prob more likely he gets 8-10 min in 18-19.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Is anything expected of Dylan Smith next year or is he just a body for practice that's taking up a scholarship? If I remember, he looked totally overmatched in the Red-Blue game.

I'd expect a 3 point specialist. That was basically his game. If he can fill that Lavender zone buster sort of role, that would be a plus.

[gumby]

Dylan Smith

http://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcat ... a7c1d.html" target="_blank

Smith, who will sit out the redshirt season required of transfers next season, will help the Wildcats right away behind the scenes because he will play against UA’s many talented perimeter players in practice on the scout team next season. Then he'll have up to three more seasons of eligibility starting in 2017-18, when UA could be dealing with a large exodus to pro ball.

Smith said he enjoyed getting to know UA freshman guard Allonzo Trier on his visit and said he couldn’t wait “to push that guy so hard in practice,” having already proven himself able to play with top talent last season.

Smith had 19 points and made several key plays late in Asheville’s upset of Georgetown, saying he realized then he could play at the highest level in college basketball. He also had 14 in Ashevillle's NCAA tournament loss to Villanova.

Miller, according to Smith, told him he could go much further in the game.

"He told me I had the potential to make the league," Smith said. "That's what coach Miller plans for me. He obviously has a great recruiting class coming in, guys that are great -- Allonzo, Rawle (Alkins), Kobi (Simmons), great guards, future pros. Just guarding against them every day will make me better. I know I'm as good as they are.

"I don't know the recruits but I have seen them all play, and they're all great players. When those guys get here, I'm looking forward to seeing them every day in practice."

A 6-foot-5, 170-pound wing, Smith said he can fit right into what Miller is calling a more "positionless" scheme in future seasons, being able to shoot, handle and pass. He led UNC Asheville in scoring last season, averaging 13.5 points while shooting 34.9 percent from three-point range and leading the Bulldogs with 81 makes from beyond the arc.

Psst. Become known as a stopper. Fill the Kadeem Allen void. Good length. Three and D.

[Jefe]

Wow he shot almost 100 more threes than Lauri did this year

Going to get minutes at PG? Looks like he can create some openings very well. Start at 1min:

[ChooChooCat]

Nah he's not a PG.

[NYCat]

Five-star point guard Trevon Duval is finishing up the visit portion of his recruitment. Duval took his first official visit to Kansas on January 31st, he then went to Duke on February 8th. Then on February 25th he visited Arizona and went straight from Tucson to Baylor. Duval is expected to close things out this week with an official visit to Seton Hall. Trying to handicap and gather intel on Duval's recruitment is difficult, so if you're looking for a favorite just throw Arizona, Duke and Kansas in a hat and pick one.

Brandon McCoy, the No. 8 player in the 2017 recruiting class, has been a bit of a mystery throughout his recruitment. He took unofficial visits to Oregon and San Diego State in early February. McCoy has taken official visits to Arizona (10/8), Michigan State (11/19), Oregon (11/12) and UNLV (10/29). The truth is, even the coaches involved don't have a strong feel for what McCoy will do. It wouldn't be a surprise to see him stay close to home and go to San Diego State, but Oregon is the school that is getting the most play as potential leader

Most thought that Brian Bowen's recruitment would be over by now, but the gifted five-star wing scorer has put his decision off a few times. Sources close to his recruitment are now saying he's looking at an April decision. Behind the scenes, I've thought Arizona has been in the drivers seat for some time, but he keeps pushing back his decision, which likely means he's unsure of what he wants to do.

Nothing we really didn't know already, Bowen delaying to see who stays and who go's. Duval is probably a Dukie

[ASUHATER!]

i'd be plenty fine with a class of Bowen, Ayton, Randolph, Lee and Barcello. Those 5 plus PJC, Comanche, Ristic, Pinder, Dylan Smith and hopefully at least 1 out of Markkanen, Simmons and Alkins is still a top 10 team next season.

[Merkin]

So hopefully Trier (I don't see him returning)

Exactly why Trier should return, especially since falling off the draft charts as a 2G.

His only chance in the NBA is to be a combo guard, and another year under Miller has to help with that.

[NYCat]

http://allsportstucson.com/2017/03/09/a ... -wildcats/" target="_blank

Gershon says Bowen is waiting to see if Trier does leave which we knew, but it's interesting that Sparty is out of it. Down to Creighton, Arizona.

[Spaceman Spiff]

http://allsportstucson.com/2017/03/09/a ... -wildcats/

Gershon says Bowen is waiting to see if Trier does leave which we knew, but it's interesting that Sparty is out of it. Down to Creighton, Arizona.

You can't criticize him for that. That is smart. If Zo and Rawle/Kobi return, there won't be too many minutes.

[ASUHATER!]

http://allsportstucson.com/2017/03/09/a ... -wildcats/

Gershon says Bowen is waiting to see if Trier does leave which we knew, but it's interesting that Sparty is out of it. Down to Creighton, Arizona.

You can't criticize him for that. That is smart. If Zo and Rawle/Kobi return, there won't be too many minutes.

Yeah along with Randolph coming in as well, not many minutes at the 2/3 spot.

[PennZona20]

It's a nice spot for us though. We are pretty much guaranteed to get 2 of the quartet of Trier, Simmons, Bowen, and Alkins in the fold next year. Add in Randolph and we have a nice little rotation at the 2/3.

Our team is pretty much set next year. We are going to have

PJC and Barcello at the 1
Trier and Randolph at the 2
Alkins and Smith at the 3
Ayton and lee at the 4
Comanche and dusan at the 5

Throw in Pinder and a likely redshirt transfer in maverick rowan and there's our 12guys.

The only variable is if Lauri decides to come back and make next year a truly special team. If not we will still be a likely top 5-7 team at worst anyway.

If he does come back, in the words of Ayton : "automatic natty" lol

[gumby]

So If we get Bowen, it means no Trier. In that case, hope he goes elsewhere. But I mean that in a nice way.

[IndianaZonaFan]

So If we get Bowen, it means no Trier. In that case, hope he goes elsewhere. But I mean that in a nice way.

Junior-Trier > Freshman-Bowen. Hands down

[PennZona20]

So If we get Bowen, it means no Trier. In that case, hope he goes elsewhere. But I mean that in a nice way.

Junior-Trier > Freshman-Bowen. Hands down

No question. Only thing we gain w Bowen is length. We lose in every other category in that trade. But still, a 5-star top 15 recruit is a nice safety net to have.

[Spaceman Spiff]

So If we get Bowen, it means no Trier. In that case, hope he goes elsewhere. But I mean that in a nice way.

Junior-Trier > Freshman-Bowen. Hands down

No question. Only thing we gain w Bowen is length. We lose in every other category in that trade. But still, a 5-star top 15 recruit is a nice safety net to have.

Yes. If that's truly our situation, that's called a win-win.

[HiCat]

Crystal Ball Predictions for Brian Bowen

Michigan State 53%
Arizona 47%

http://247sports.com/PlayerInstitution/ ... redictions" target="_blank

[NYCat]

Took a visit to Seton Hall and an unofficial to DePaul (?) recently, still think it's Arizona..

That MSU insider switched his pick to Arizona, apparently MSU is focusing on McCoy.

[ChooChooCat]

So If we get Bowen, it means no Trier. In that case, hope he goes elsewhere. But I mean that in a nice way.

Bowen isn't committing until he knows what Trier's intentions are. So if he commits to Arizona it's because he knows Zo will not be here next year.

[Jwsisliving]

One of Bowen's teammates just commited to Creighton. Hopefully that's less of a factor and Creighton getting bounced out of the tourney in the first round is more of one (they could come back but they ain't looking that great against an 11th seed). Real impressive showing Hopefully Bowen picks the better program.

[ChooChooCat]

Rumors of Bowen's HS coach being hired at Illinois or DePaul as an assistant and that may lure Bowen to whichever school hires him.

[rgdeuce]

I dunno, maybe I'm just weird, but I was ready for new teammates and coaches by the time I finished high school.

[Jwsisliving]

Rumors of Bowen's HS coach being hired at Illinois or DePaul as an assistant and that may lure Bowen to whichever school hires him.

That's such a cheap tactic. Almost cheating. If you're paying someone close to the recruit I don't see how that's all that much different from paying them (especially when you're hiring their father, like in the case of that scummy Cuonzo Martin and Porter's father at the great Missouri). I'm pretty sure the hire won't last much longer after the kids gone. They dupe these kids and their families (or handlers) into joining a shitty program. Their (shady) recruiting skills don't usually translate into wins on the court. I wonder if Rabb would still want to go to Cal if he knew they were going to miss the tourney, crap out in the NIT, and have their flake of a coach bail on them. Illinois and (especially) Depaul ain't doing anything special even if they get Bowen. Here's hoping he cares enough about winning to make a smart choice.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Rumors of Bowen's HS coach being hired at Illinois or DePaul as an assistant and that may lure Bowen to whichever school hires him.

That's such a cheap tactic. Almost cheating. If you're paying someone close to the recruit I don't see how that's all that much different from paying them (especially when you're hiring their father, like in the case of that scummy Cuonzo Martin and Porter's father at the great Missouri). I'm pretty sure the hire won't last much longer after the kids gone. They dupe these kids and their families (or handlers) into joining a shitty program. Their (shady) recruiting skills don't usually translate into wins on the court. I wonder if Rabb would still want to go to Cal if he knew they were going to miss the tourney, crap out in the NIT, and have their flake of a coach bail on them. Illinois and (especially) Depaul ain't doing anything special even if they get Bowen. Here's hoping he cares enough about winning to make a smart choice.

I'm not sure it's just about Bowen. La Lumiere produces a ton of talent. Frank Jackson last year, Bowen this year and Tyger Campbell next year just off the top of my head. If you think you can get in on La Lumiere, you can get 2-3 top 100 players per year.

[RaisingArizona]

I thought Frank Jackson went to HS in Utah

[Spaceman Spiff]

I thought Frank Jackson went to HS in Utah

Long day. I checked, confused Lone Peak with La Lumiere (don't ask for logic). I'll sub James Banks after I looked at last year's La Lumiere team.

[Chicat]

I thought Frank Jackson went to HS in Utah

Long day. I checked, confused Lone Peak with La Lumiere (don't ask for logic). I'll sub James Banks after I looked at last year's La Lumiere team.

But Jim Gaffigan did go to La Lumiere. So there's that...

Not sure why I never went to check Bowen out. His school is literally right down the road from me. I could have been providing scouting reports the whole season. Oh well...

[UAEebs86]

I thought Frank Jackson went to HS in Utah

Long day. I checked, confused Lone Peak with La Lumiere (don't ask for logic). I'll sub James Banks after I looked at last year's La Lumiere team.

But Jim Gaffigan did go to La Lumiere. So there's that...

Not sure why I never went to check Bowen out. His school is literally right down the road from me. I could have been providing scouting reports the whole season. Oh well...

#badfan

[Spaceman Spiff]

I thought Frank Jackson went to HS in Utah

Long day. I checked, confused Lone Peak with La Lumiere (don't ask for logic). I'll sub James Banks after I looked at last year's La Lumiere team.

But Jim Gaffigan did go to La Lumiere. So there's that...

Not sure why I never went to check Bowen out. His school is literally right down the road from me. I could have been providing scouting reports the whole season. Oh well...

Well, he played all the way in Utah. Or was that Frank Jackson? Dammit.

[rgdeuce]

Yeah Frank Jackson went to Lone Peak, where both of my younger sisters ended up graduating. One of the few regular high schools in the country that can compete with the big boys.

[EVCat]

I thought the NCAA outlawed this, or put a limitation on taking a recruit from a school from which the coach was hired for a year or so, after the ASU/Harden bit.

Did they relax that rule?

[whatisee]

Porter Jr. has asked for his release from Washington

[Spaceman Spiff]

Porter Jr. has asked for his release from Washington

We should hire his dad if Trier leaves.

[NYCat]

...

[ChooChooCat]

He's going to Mizzou with his dad.

[dmjcat]

Thank Momma!

https://arizonasports.com/story/1071655 ... on-mainly/" target="_blank

[NYCat]

The Arizona part of it

ARIZONA: "The coaching staff says they need a point guard in this class. They need someone who can play with DeAndre Ayton and if Allonzo Trier comes back someone to get him the ball. They're just telling me I can really be the one to help their team out."

[Spaceman Spiff]

"I really want to decide sometime in April," Duval said. "It might go into early May but I'd really like to get it done in April. I feel as if the visits really help separate certain schools from the others but it's also just seeing how the teams are set and if players go."

The Arizona part of it

ARIZONA: "The coaching staff says they need a point guard in this class. They need someone who can play with DeAndre Ayton and if Allonzo Trier comes back someone to get him the ball. They're just telling me I can really be the one to help their team out."

That's all very valid.

[zonagrad]

So the coaching staff is certainly expecting Trier back next season. That's good.

[Merkin]

Had an Arizona offer.

[ChooChooCat]

G Jemarl Baker got out of his LOI from Cal. Another guy Arizona may very well pursue.