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Nope.scumdevils86 wrote:We have the ability to battle back and beat bag and mediocre and some good teams but does anyone actually think we beat Purdue in an elite 8 game or someone similar currently?
Kind of like 1997?CalStateTempe wrote:Nope.scumdevils86 wrote:We have the ability to battle back and beat bag and mediocre and some good teams but does anyone actually think we beat Purdue in an elite 8 game or someone similar currently?
Unfortunely we are currently less than the sum of our parts.
Really disappointing season.
Do you mean what are the odds or can we? We definitely can, and in the NCAA tourney, far bigger underdogs have won.scumdevils86 wrote:We have the ability to battle back and beat bad and mediocre and some good teams but does anyone actually think we beat Purdue in an elite 8 game or someone similar currently?
Purdue has arguably the current best record in college hoops...I can fully see them going to a FF with no problem...scumdevils86 wrote:We have the ability to battle back and beat bad and mediocre and some good teams but does anyone actually think we beat Purdue in an elite 8 game or someone similar currently?
Choo, you are certainly spot on about the metrics being what they are, and your fears are surely valid.ChooChooCat wrote:While I agree with the two of you, my primary concern is that all the metrics certainly suggest we are absolute dog shit on one end of the basketball court and while that's not impossible to overcome in the NCAA tourney it doesn't necessarily bode well for our chances in said tourney either.Longhorned wrote:I'm not proud to say that I've watched a ton of college basketball this season, and I share your opinion.Olsondogg wrote:It’s clear that several posters don’t watch much college basketball outside of Arizona games, coupled with the inability to understand much of anything.
Some really aggressive takes on here that are pretty idiotic yet funny.
But even if somebody doesn't watch non-Arizona games, here's something straightforward we can all agree on:
Arizona does not play like the same team that was in the Bahamas. The number of Arizona's losses since that debacle (1) is equal to the amount of losses suffered by Villanova and Virginia, and second only to Purdue (0). That 14-1 record includes 5 true road wins.
Good question. I don't think any team is similar to Purdue right now, so I'll address whether we can beat Purdue in March. It would take a hell of a strong February from Arizona, with health and continued improvement, to make me believe we could beat Purdue in March. Right now, I don't see any reason to exclude that kind of improvement won't happen in February.scumdevils86 wrote:We have the ability to battle back and beat bad and mediocre and some good teams but does anyone actually think we beat Purdue in an elite 8 game or someone similar currently?
Get Ayton in foul trouble should be opponents #1 tactic.Beachcat97 wrote:We have Ayton; rest of country does not. So there's that.
That is the NCAA tournament. Could we beat Purdue? Even in the same bracket, half the time you don't have to, regardless of who that other team was.Longhorned wrote:Good question. I don't think any team is similar to Purdue right now, so I'll address whether we can beat Purdue in March. It would take a hell of a strong February from Arizona, with health and continued improvement, to make me believe we could beat Purdue in March. Right now, I don't see any reason to exclude that kind of improvement won't happen in February.scumdevils86 wrote:We have the ability to battle back and beat bad and mediocre and some good teams but does anyone actually think we beat Purdue in an elite 8 game or someone similar currently?
Purdue isn't the most talented team, and they don't have that "best player on the floor who will beat you in a one-and-out" category checked off the list. They are very disciplined and tough, and that bodes well for them, but they don't have the upside of more talented teams who happen to come together in March. I like Purdue's chances, but they could also be like that 2014 Wichita State team that ran into Kentucky, who put it together at the right time after a disappointing season and made it to the title game, which they should have won.
2014 they were national runner up as a 8 seedSpaceman Spiff wrote:That is the NCAA tournament. Could we beat Purdue? Even in the same bracket, half the time you don't have to, regardless of who that other team was.Longhorned wrote:Good question. I don't think any team is similar to Purdue right now, so I'll address whether we can beat Purdue in March. It would take a hell of a strong February from Arizona, with health and continued improvement, to make me believe we could beat Purdue in March. Right now, I don't see any reason to exclude that kind of improvement won't happen in February.scumdevils86 wrote:We have the ability to battle back and beat bad and mediocre and some good teams but does anyone actually think we beat Purdue in an elite 8 game or someone similar currently?
Purdue isn't the most talented team, and they don't have that "best player on the floor who will beat you in a one-and-out" category checked off the list. They are very disciplined and tough, and that bodes well for them, but they don't have the upside of more talented teams who happen to come together in March. I like Purdue's chances, but they could also be like that 2014 Wichita State team that ran into Kentucky, who put it together at the right time after a disappointing season and made it to the title game, which they should have won.
The 2014 Kentucky team was an undefeated juggernaut. How did that work out for them?
Sorry, meant the 14-15 season.RondaeShimmy wrote:2014 they were national runner up as a 8 seedSpaceman Spiff wrote:That is the NCAA tournament. Could we beat Purdue? Even in the same bracket, half the time you don't have to, regardless of who that other team was.Longhorned wrote:Good question. I don't think any team is similar to Purdue right now, so I'll address whether we can beat Purdue in March. It would take a hell of a strong February from Arizona, with health and continued improvement, to make me believe we could beat Purdue in March. Right now, I don't see any reason to exclude that kind of improvement won't happen in February.scumdevils86 wrote:We have the ability to battle back and beat bad and mediocre and some good teams but does anyone actually think we beat Purdue in an elite 8 game or someone similar currently?
Purdue isn't the most talented team, and they don't have that "best player on the floor who will beat you in a one-and-out" category checked off the list. They are very disciplined and tough, and that bodes well for them, but they don't have the upside of more talented teams who happen to come together in March. I like Purdue's chances, but they could also be like that 2014 Wichita State team that ran into Kentucky, who put it together at the right time after a disappointing season and made it to the title game, which they should have won.
The 2014 Kentucky team was an undefeated juggernaut. How did that work out for them?
2015 they went 38-1 and lost in the final four
Besides Arizona who is Purdue's big win? Michigan by 4?CatFanOneMil wrote:Purdue has arguably the current best record in college hoops...I can fully see them going to a FF with no problem...scumdevils86 wrote:We have the ability to battle back and beat bad and mediocre and some good teams but does anyone actually think we beat Purdue in an elite 8 game or someone similar currently?
I asked a question...not trying to discount anything...but whats their stellar victories?YoDeFoe wrote:Purdue is exceptionally good. Not sure why there’s a desire to discount that.
How many games has Ayton fouled out of this year?RondaeShimmy wrote:Get Ayton in foul trouble should be opponents #1 tactic.Beachcat97 wrote:We have Ayton; rest of country does not. So there's that.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=deandre+ayton+season+stats" target="_blankBeachcat97 wrote:How many games has Ayton fouled out of this year?RondaeShimmy wrote:Get Ayton in foul trouble should be opponents #1 tactic.Beachcat97 wrote:We have Ayton; rest of country does not. So there's that.
It was a rhetorical question. He's fouled out twice, which isn't bad.PHXCATS wrote:http://lmgtfy.com/?q=deandre+ayton+season+stats" target="_blankBeachcat97 wrote:How many games has Ayton fouled out of this year?RondaeShimmy wrote:Get Ayton in foul trouble should be opponents #1 tactic.Beachcat97 wrote:We have Ayton; rest of country does not. So there's that.
Actually no again, he has twiceBeachcat97 wrote:It was a rhetorical question. He hasn't fouled out of a game.PHXCATS wrote:http://lmgtfy.com/?q=deandre+ayton+season+stats" target="_blankBeachcat97 wrote:How many games has Ayton fouled out of this year?RondaeShimmy wrote:Get Ayton in foul trouble should be opponents #1 tactic.Beachcat97 wrote:We have Ayton; rest of country does not. So there's that.
They are currently 9-0 in the Big 10...I honestly do not see them dropping a game in their conference...come selection Sunday they will easily be a #2 seed...which is more than I can say for the winner of the Pac 12 conference regardless of who it is...Olsondogg wrote:Besides Arizona who is Purdue's big win? Michigan by 4?CatFanOneMil wrote:Purdue has arguably the current best record in college hoops...I can fully see them going to a FF with no problem...scumdevils86 wrote:We have the ability to battle back and beat bad and mediocre and some good teams but does anyone actually think we beat Purdue in an elite 8 game or someone similar currently?
Right. Is your point, then, that Ayton getting in foul trouble is a major concern for March? He hasn't really shown that he's foul-prone.[/quote]Beachcat97 wrote:Actually no again, he has twicePHXCATS wrote:
It was a rhetorical question. He hasn't fouled out of a game.
If U of A wins the PAC-12 regular season and conference tournament and drops two or less games the rest of the way they will be the 2 in the west.CatFanOneMil wrote:They are currently 9-0 in the Big 10...I honestly do not see them dropping a game in their conference...come selection Sunday they will easily be a #2 seed...which is more than I can say for the winner of the Pac 12 conference regardless of who it is...Olsondogg wrote:Besides Arizona who is Purdue's big win? Michigan by 4?CatFanOneMil wrote:Purdue has arguably the current best record in college hoops...I can fully see them going to a FF with no problem...scumdevils86 wrote:We have the ability to battle back and beat bad and mediocre and some good teams but does anyone actually think we beat Purdue in an elite 8 game or someone similar currently?
Yea I'm not drinking that cool-aid yet...granted we move up in rankings the Pac is incredibly weak this year, I barely see us getting three in the tournament and if we somehow get four it will only be because UA was beat again by some outlier team...PHXCATS wrote:If U of A wins the PAC-12 regular season and conference tournament and drops two or less games the rest of the way they will be the 2 in the west.CatFanOneMil wrote:They are currently 9-0 in the Big 10...I honestly do not see them dropping a game in their conference...come selection Sunday they will easily be a #2 seed...which is more than I can say for the winner of the Pac 12 conference regardless of who it is...Olsondogg wrote:Besides Arizona who is Purdue's big win? Michigan by 4?CatFanOneMil wrote:Purdue has arguably the current best record in college hoops...I can fully see them going to a FF with no problem...scumdevils86 wrote:We have the ability to battle back and beat bad and mediocre and some good teams but does anyone actually think we beat Purdue in an elite 8 game or someone similar currently?
should've googled 'deandre ayton game log' tbhPHXCATS wrote:http://lmgtfy.com/?q=deandre+ayton+season+stats" target="_blankBeachcat97 wrote:How many games has Ayton fouled out of this year?RondaeShimmy wrote:Get Ayton in foul trouble should be opponents #1 tactic.Beachcat97 wrote:We have Ayton; rest of country does not. So there's that.
I guess we just have to agree to disagree but people who are doing future outlooks for the seeding not just results to date are putting U of A as the 2 in the west currently.CatFanOneMil wrote:Yea I'm not drinking that cool-aid yet...granted we move up in rankings the Pac is incredibly weak this year, I barely see us getting three in the tournament and if we somehow get four it will only be because UA was beat again by some outlier team...
"Can't Guard-U" MIGHT make it...but its doubtful in this current trend...UA/USC/Stanford...if Altman uses his wizard staff and somehow makes some noise in the pac MAYBE...but who else is gonna get to the dance?
So I'm not buying into the idea that winning the PAc-12 outright and tournament actually boosts us...and that means dropping zero games from here on out...
We were playing them in the consolation game in Bahamas. Since then, to date they’ve beaten one ranked team, by 4 points yesterday. They beat that same team when not ranked by 1. They have yet to play at Michigan State or Ohio State and have 5 road games left.CatFanOneMil wrote:They are currently 9-0 in the Big 10...I honestly do not see them dropping a game in their conference...come selection Sunday they will easily be a #2 seed...which is more than I can say for the winner of the Pac 12 conference regardless of who it is...Olsondogg wrote:Besides Arizona who is Purdue's big win? Michigan by 4?CatFanOneMil wrote:Purdue has arguably the current best record in college hoops...I can fully see them going to a FF with no problem...scumdevils86 wrote:We have the ability to battle back and beat bad and mediocre and some good teams but does anyone actually think we beat Purdue in an elite 8 game or someone similar currently?
My points arePHXCATS wrote:Right. Is your point, then, that Ayton getting in foul trouble is a major concern for March? He hasn't really shown that he's foul-prone.Beachcat97 wrote:Actually no again, he has twicePHXCATS wrote:
It was a rhetorical question. He hasn't fouled out of a game.
We can win every single one of those games and should focus on winning our next game, then repeat that over and over until there isn't a next game. Prognosticating 2 or 3 more losses...screw that. Beat Utah. Move on.Beachcat97 wrote:10 reg season games left. Think it's easy to envision at worst 7-3. @UW, @ASU, and @Oregon seem like the most probable losses. But then, there's still USC. I just can't see us losing 4 out of these final 10. I think 8-2 is more likely.
I never said losses were acceptable. Just trying to do an overview of the next several weeks.Spaceman Spiff wrote:We can win every single one of those games and should focus on winning our next game, then repeat that over and over until there isn't a next game. Prognosticating 2 or 3 more losses...screw that. Beat Utah. Move on.Beachcat97 wrote:10 reg season games left. Think it's easy to envision at worst 7-3. @UW, @ASU, and @Oregon seem like the most probable losses. But then, there's still USC. I just can't see us losing 4 out of these final 10. I think 8-2 is more likely.
There really shouldn't be acceptable losses.
I absolutely agree with every thing you said here, my sole retort...Arizona Basketball is cursed, hence why the metrics never matter for us.Olsondogg wrote:Choo, you are certainly spot on about the metrics being what they are, and your fears are surely valid.ChooChooCat wrote:While I agree with the two of you, my primary concern is that all the metrics certainly suggest we are absolute dog shit on one end of the basketball court and while that's not impossible to overcome in the NCAA tourney it doesn't necessarily bode well for our chances in said tourney either.Longhorned wrote:I'm not proud to say that I've watched a ton of college basketball this season, and I share your opinion.Olsondogg wrote:It’s clear that several posters don’t watch much college basketball outside of Arizona games, coupled with the inability to understand much of anything.
Some really aggressive takes on here that are pretty idiotic yet funny.
But even if somebody doesn't watch non-Arizona games, here's something straightforward we can all agree on:
Arizona does not play like the same team that was in the Bahamas. The number of Arizona's losses since that debacle (1) is equal to the amount of losses suffered by Villanova and Virginia, and second only to Purdue (0). That 14-1 record includes 5 true road wins.
Let me present this though. What did fantastic metrics get us in years past? What did that top 5 Adj win us? What did pretty, double digit wins and undefeated out of conference seasons achieve?
Metrics are great to ascertain who is good, bad or mediocre. They are along with rankings (to a lesser degree) are a tool to be used to determine how to gauge a team compared with other teams.
Having watched a ton of basketball, not only this year but for the better part of nearly 3 decades, I can say that there is not a team out there that is hands and shoulders above the others. Duke is nearly equally as shitty defensively, but does anyone think that they have a sweet 16 ceiling?
For some posters the anvil is always dangling by a thread above the head. It's January and a ton of basketball is to be be played. A ton of shit can happen-both good or bad...just look at what has happened after January in years past.
Arizona has to improve, be healthy and confident going into March. But anyone pointing to this season as a disappointment needs to have their expectations readjusted. Or better yet, try rooting for ASU who was the non-conf regular season champs before the PAC season started.
It's not new; we as fans are inured to U of A basketball success. But we're emotionally reactive to the spread between current production and potential. Metrics notwithstanding, and for good reason, we know there needs to be something else that pushes a program over the top and into the FF, or into whatever achievement is as yet unmade, in our case for the coach. Luck. Timing. Health. Lightning in a bottle. With all our advantages (I alluded to by "pampered" recruits): tradition, funding, coaching, facilities, chartered flights, historic fan support, McD's All Americans we should be where we are at the top of the Conference. I'm not depressed but I take my cue from our coach. We're not the right kind of hungry ... not yet. Dusan played two years with Zeus from whom he should have learned by now where his defensive position should be all the time. Dusan can't get quicker but he can get better. Trier was with Kadeem for two years and saw Miller heap praise on his raw effort. Trier has asthma so maybe he can't go as hard a Kadeem did, but he knows what effort on both sides of the ball looks like. I don't worry about our bench. They're hungry and they'll get better. We're improving but none of us knows what the outcome will be.qwertyus wrote:And yet we're 6-1 in conference, and nobody besides maybe Duke has a player as dominant as Ayton. This team's not amazing. But it will grind its way to a 16-2 finish in the PAC and a PAC12 Tournament win. Then, whatever happens in the tourney happens. Hopefully, Miller isn't outcoached like last year, and we'll have a greater than 50 percent chance against anyone we face.dovecanyoncat wrote:Too much depression, true. But I yearn for more hunger in our players. These "average" Pac-12 opponents cause us protracted periods of disfunction, so who's at fault in that? Often the "average" conference player brings it in a way our pampered recruits don't. We have a blue-blood program and a demanding coach but if a player's standard for himself is not this-game-at-this-moment then his performance can often be outdone by "average" but hungry players.Spaceman Spiff wrote:Too much depression on this board. We can be better, but a 9 point win, a 17-4 record and being poised to move into the top ten and everyone is sad.
Not to speak well of the devil, but every opponent has players with the fire of Rawle. We have only one.
For a year clouded by the FBI, clouded by the S16 shitshow last year, hell, even Wichita f*cking State 2 years ago... After all that drama, we're on our way to another conference title and a chance at a Final Four. The ride's never been smooth, so why are we pretending like this is new?
Chicat wrote:
I searched “Rawle Alkins” so I could get an update on his status to pick him for RAP and I discovered that incredible majesty.
I did the same thing earlier and I was trying to figure out wtf I was reading. Choo, can you explain this to a layman? To me, Titus is saying that Arizona's defensive woes are due to Miller's stubbornness about an outmoded, 1980's emphasis on size in playing Ayton and Ristic together, along with PJC at point guard. What is the more effective option? I'm assuming he doesn't mean PJC should be benched, and is just saying that Miller shouldn't add the liability of Ristic on top of the need to play PJC. So is he saying a 4-guard lineup of PJC, Trier, Smith, Alkins, and Ayton?ChooChooCat wrote:Well Titus nails it again.
6. Arizona (17–4)
The good news: With less than a week remaining until the calendar turns to February, Arizona has lost games only in Atlantis (which isn’t even a real place) and Colorado (might as well be on the moon). Oklahoma features a freshman who is setting the record books on fire, and Duke has a freshman who could score every time down the floor if he wanted to, but if I were an NBA general manager I’d still take Arizona’s Deandre Ayton over both of them. Allonzo Trier has been incredible since the Wildcats’ loss at Colorado, Dylan Smith has played nearly flawlessly in the two games that he’s started in place of the injured Rawle Alkins, and Arizona has a decent shot at landing a no. 2 seed in the NCAA tournament.
The bad news: Head coach Sean Miller can’t get out of his own way, because his basketball philosophy is stuck in 1986 and he’s apparently hell-bent on going down with the ship. I refuse to give up on this Arizona team until it’s eventually bounced early from the NCAA tournament, but even I can’t deny it anymore: I have zero faith that the Cats are going to figure things out defensively. I just don’t see it happening when Arizona plays a majority of every game with two 7-footers and a tiny point guard on the floor at the same time. Remember when I said North Carolina was the most frustrating team in college basketball? I lied. The Tar Heels are frustrating since I can’t figure out why they’re so inconsistent. The Cats are frustrating since I know exactly why Arizona keeps finding itself in close games despite having the two best players in the Pac-12, and it destroys me that I can’t do a damn thing about it.
I think having Rawle at the 4 turned the game around, and part of that was the ability to extend the defense while still being able to defend in transition, which you can't do with the two bigs. But with few exceptions, that kind of hectic small ball doesn't seem like a winning game-long strategy for teams, especially with what I've seen from Arizona's bench this season. I can't imagine more minutes to anyone on that bench, and at the expense of forcing the opponent to put their second-best post defender on Ristic. Then again, I also think the opponent's other answer to that problem -- zoning Arizona -- is overstated as a kind of kryptonite that destroys this team, and I know I'm not with popular sentiment around here. I think Arizona lost to Colorado because they came out with their worst effort imaginable, dug themselves a 22 point hole, repeatedly succeeded at getting the ball to the hole against the zone, but got killed by Ristic's worst offensive performance ever when he missed seven point-blank layups.ChooChooCat wrote:Well what was most effective for Arizona defensively against Stanford for instance? Was it Ayton and Dus out there together or was it Rawle at the 4 with either Ayton or Dus at the 5?
I totally concede your point that Miller is sacrificing defense for offense, but it's certainly fair to question whether that strategy is the correct one. It's also fair to question whether he's doing it specifically for offense or more for loyalty to his senior center who he begged to come back over Comanche. Lord knows Miller can't hurt his non-existent Serbian pipeline when he can't land U.S. high school players any more I guess.
For the record while I love Dus's offense I still think any lineup with Rawle at the 4 along side one of our 7 footers is more than effective offensively (especially with the recent emergence of Smith) and much more effective defensively.
Refer to your parenthesis man, not going to happen.PieceOfMeat wrote:Assuming Rawle can play today (and going forward) I'd like to see Smith start and bring Rawle off the bench.
For whatever reason Smith plays better when he starts, and Rawle could provide what he does now only more-so if he comes off the bench at the first timeout when we spell a big man. Plus maybe he'd play a few less minutes which could help with his soreness issue.
I know I'm not the first to mention it, just figured I'd chime in as well.
(Oh, and this is of course assuming Rawle has the mindset to be that 6th man and be ok with it).
