Tommy Lloyd

[ChooChooCat]

I may be in the minority, but I find it very hard to calibrate expectations for next season, even given this great roster we have coming back. I like that Lloyd is going to promote fast, intuitive basketball, rather than the plodding, methodical approach we came to expect from Miller. But the on-court results are a big question mark. Need to see Lloyd on the sideline for a month or two, calling the shots, reacting to in-game situations.

Having said that, I think a bubble-level team is most likely. There's enough talent here -- with or without Tyty -- to be among the top 4 in the Pac, possibly higher if things start clicking immediately. But I could see Lloyd's first team being up and down. We'll win/lose some games we're not supposed to and probably end the reg season with 16-20 wins.

Does anyone, off the top of their head, know what our non-conf schedule looks like for next season?

@Illinois, OOC tournament with UNLV, Wichita State, and Michigan, Gonzaga game will be rescheduled for obvious reasons, so that game will be replaced.

[Beachcat97]

I may be in the minority, but I find it very hard to calibrate expectations for next season, even given this great roster we have coming back. I like that Lloyd is going to promote fast, intuitive basketball, rather than the plodding, methodical approach we came to expect from Miller. But the on-court results are a big question mark. Need to see Lloyd on the sideline for a month or two, calling the shots, reacting to in-game situations.

Having said that, I think a bubble-level team is most likely. There's enough talent here -- with or without Tyty -- to be among the top 4 in the Pac, possibly higher if things start clicking immediately. But I could see Lloyd's first team being up and down. We'll win/lose some games we're not supposed to and probably end the reg season with 16-20 wins.

Does anyone, off the top of their head, know what our non-conf schedule looks like for next season?

@Illinois, OOC tournament with UNLV, Wichita State, and Michigan, Gonzaga game will be rescheduled for obvious reasons, so that game will be replaced.

That's pretty solid. I mean, winning *any* of those would be terrific.

And I'm also interested to see if this huge Pac performance in the '21 tourney pays any dividends. Like, was Oregon State a fluke? UCLA? USC is losing the Mobleys. Oregon is losing key players but bringing in elite talent, as usual. Bottom line: will we have a chance to pick up quality wins in conference? This has not happened very often the last few seasons.

[Chicat]

Some have mention Miller comparisons for results. Those sound right and I’m willing to agree: if, in season 12, you put up a 35 or so rpi season, you’ve brought no final fours but HAVE brought the cops, yes Tommy should be fired.

But otherwise some of the takes have been quite ridiculous. But considering who they are generally coming from, 100% expected.

Please note that you’re the first person to bring up firing Lloyd. Which would be a ridiculous take.

But being disappointed in disappointing results is now for some reason forbidden? Oh right. Training wheels season.

I’m happy to have a conversation about Miller’s disappointing results, the disappointing end to his tenure.

It was disappointing.

Being seemingly disappointed with Tommy’s results before he’s even coached a game seems...odd. It seems further odd when one wants to judge a potential 35 rpi season that hasn’t happened as unacceptable, when some here were, just a month ago, defending those kind of results from a different coach.

It’s odd. It almost seems like...

Well, people can judge that for themselves.

You are adorable.

I’m not disappointed with anything so far. In fact, quite the opposite. But I reserve the right to be disappointed with the results at the end of next season if, for example, we don’t finish in the top 4 of the conference standings and we don’t earn a 6 seed or higher in the tournament.

I’d ask you if that’s ok, but it’s not really for you to decide, is it? Just like it wasn’t for me to decide whether you could unceasingly bash Miller while at the same time not being able or willing to inform us who would be an upgrade.

[BBQ wildcat]

Same for me. Lloyd inherited a top 20 / top 15 team. The core of the talent is back and should be much improved over last year. So why should he be given any leeway? Either he is or is not a HC who will be better than Miller? Why should he be given 3-4 seasons to get his shit together? He didn't inherit a bare cupboard. What Miller was bringing back was a team that would have been (IMO) AT LEAST a top-4 PAC-12 team and at least a 6 seed. Since that wasn't "good" enough for Robbins, we should expect Lloyd to at least match that out of the gate.

[HiCat]

Experts
2021 Accuracy
All-Time
Prediction
Confidence

Jason Scheer
WildcatAuthority.com Arizona Insider
9 / 10 (90.00%)
327 / 378 (86.51%)
ARIZ
4/24/21 5:24 PM
7
High

https://247sports.com/PlayerInstitution ... edictions/

I think J Scheer is predicting Arizona. But...

[UAEebs86]

Who tha fook is this guy? Says class of '25

[84Cat]

Only info I could find on Will Reeves. I would imagine as a walk-on

https://www.maxpreps.com/athlete/will-r ... efault.htm

[prh]

Who tha fook is this guy? Says class of '25

I suspect that's UA class of 2025, so incoming freshman. Looks like he's from Gonzaga Prep, very limited info. I'm guessing preferred walk on. Mentioned in here a little
https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2020/ ... ends-as-l/

[ChooChooCat]

He’s a walk on.

[Longhorned]

how does this guy not have his own thread yet?

[Longhorned]

Q: before you die, what do you do for an Anglo-Saxon king with no local administrative agents?

A: will reeves

[wyo-cat]

God win son

[U.P. Zona Fan]

No Gonzaga game next year?

I'm really bummed about that.

I would not expect that we win that game but still, it would be a great opportunity for CTL to put together a game plan against a team he has scouted well and see how the players follow the plan. Plus for the boys to go to the kennel and compete would be some high level competition, great road game. I don't know, I don't see the cons for playing.

[ChooChooCat]

No Gonzaga game next year?

I'm really bummed about that.

I would not expect that we win that game but still, it would be a great opportunity for CTL to put together a game plan against a team he has scouted well and see how the players follow the plan. Plus for the boys to go to the kennel and compete would be some high level competition, great road game. I don't know, I don't see the cons for playing.

He’s not going to play against his best friend/mentor before he gets his feet underneath him.

[ASUHATER!]

Yea I doubt we play Gonzaga (unless it is in the tournament) anytime in the next 2-3 seasons.

[gronk4heisman]

For reference, Roy Williams started 19-11 his first year in UNC and he inherited Sean May, Rashad McCants and Raymond Felton. You have to give a little leeway when implementing an entire new system. If Tommy missed the tournament, that's what I would call a huge disappointment and he would be on the hot seat after one year.

[HiCat]

I'm in on Lloyd. No, I can't guarantee anything about him. However, from the little I've heard and what I've read, plus watching the Zags and understanding how much he, allegedly, means to the program, he has to be the guy.

Not sure it works out or not, but I think we could do much worse... Like Seth Greenberg and Tim Floyd wor... Sorry, forgot what decade this was.

Meet Tommy Lloyd: Mark Few’s Chief Lieutenant and an Immeasurable Key to Gonzaga's Success
The Zags' men's program wouldn't be what it is today without Lloyd, who's spent two decades helping Few build a power in Spokane.
Apr 2, 2021
https://www.si.com/college/2021/04/02/g ... e-mark-few

For a better understanding of who Tommy Lloyd is and where he comes from this article might be interesting.
Some insight on the new coach and what that may mean for the future of Arizona basketball.

[Catintheheat]

For those wanting to read the article above, it is long. Very intriguing story. What I got from the story is CTL does not live in fear. He has a magnetic personality.

[Spaceman Spiff]

With all due respect, this is a ridiculous take. Measuring a first-time head coach in year one taking over a roster of players he inherited by the same yardstick as you would a coach who has been in charge of a program for a dozen years, who had a LOT of baggage weighing down the program (fairly or not), is fucking inane and setting Floyd up for failure.

I had been a very staunch Miller supporter for most of this soap opera, but the drama around this program for what seems like forever was long in the tooth a while ago. Whether or not Miller deserves blame for the current situation & recent history may be debatable, but the fact that (as the man running the program) he is responsible for it is undebatable, IMO. And anyone who has no aptitude for nuance and cannot distinguish between the two, do not bother responding.

IF Floyd achieves in his first year what Miller was expected to in Year 13, he gets a full 1-2 grade bump in his restrospective assessment. I had very mixed feelings about Miller’s firing and was not at all a fan of the Lloyd hire when it was announced... but I am extremely impressed by what I have seen thus far.

Only time will tell.

I have to fully disagree.

If you fire Coach A to replace with Coach B, I think it's ridiculous to think it's fine if Coach B goes backwards from where Coach A was.

Point blank, you don't fire a guy to be cool with a replacement who wins less than the guy you fired. Call it what it is at that point, you downgraded.

Now that may not be Lloyd's entire tenure, but I fully disagree that we shouldn't even bother counting Year 1 or caring about results. This isn't Fisch taking over Sumlin's smoking trash heap of an 0-8 roster. There are plenty of pieces.

I find the drama argument BS. First, as I've posted, no school that doesn't have BobRob as president has drama that justifies firing a coach. Kansas, no drama. LSU, no drama. Miami, no drama. USC no drama. They've gone about their business with their current coaches.

Second, and more important, you win games with talent. That's my bigger issue, acting like it's unfair to expect a lot out of Lloyd when all he walked into was a presumptive top 15 roster.

If we hired Shay Binion, Ben Mathurin, Azuolas Tubelis and Kriisa are still standout players you can win big with, moreso as sophs. I think it's ridiculous not to expect Lloyd to do the exact thing he's hired to do with a roster that lets him do it.

[EastCoastCat]

Until I see who our PG will be, who happens to be replacing our best player/all-conference guy from last year, which nobody seems to want to recognize I will wait on my final expectations.

[Chicat]

Until I see who our PG will be, who happens to replacing our best player/all-conference guy from last year, which nobody seems to want to recognize I will wait on my final expectations.

This is the best argument for tempered expectations.

The idea that this is a training wheels season no matter the talent level of the team is not.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Until I see who our PG will be, who happens to replacing our best player/all-conference guy from last year, which nobody seems to want to recognize I will wait on my final expectations.

This is fair and I disagree far less here.

I will still say, I think you have to grade roster retention and/or replacement as part of it with Lloyd, so if he didn't retain or replace Akinjo, I think that counts in an evaluation of his performance.

That said, the idea of projecting a win total is obviously heavily dependent on replacing Akinjo. Just because I feel that replacement is part of the expectation doesn't mean it won't influence how the team does.

[Catintheheat]

The more I read about Tommy Lloyd the more it seems he is up to the challenge. He wouldn't have gone to any school except the UA. He wanted to come here. If there was betting on how he will do the next five years I would take the chance on CTL. The takes a couple of years to travel around the world and doesn't have a concern if he doesn't have any money. He finds a way. I've seen this type of person before and he is a rare breed. The assistants who worked with him moved to Illinois and Baylor. And If I read the article above correctly he turned down the job of being HC of Gonzaga because he wanted to travel around the world first while he could.

For all the cynics out there and the fans who are angry the way CSM was canned I strongly believe when the chips are laid down on the table it is very possible we may have the best young coach in the country. He was ranked the best assistant coach. And better yet, if he passes the test, Arizona is his dream job. If he does well and we treat him right, we won't have to be concerned he will move to another blue blood school.

Of course, none of this may happen, and I am dreaming and am full of BS or way overconfident. But what I see in CTL so far I really like and I am glad he is our coach. I like his style of basketball, and his ability to teach. I like the way he connects with people. I like his recruiting. And everyone he's been around speaks highly of him. I am really looking forward to next season, especially if we receive a commitment from Tyty. We are one quality PG away from winning the Pac-12, and possibly making a deep run in the tourney. One last point. What other coach would want to come to UA with the allegations hanging over our head, and willing to accept them and look past them.

I haven't looked forward to a season since we had TJ McConnell. I think all the bad luck the Cats have had since CSM (I wish him well, he deserves better) has reached the turning point.

[mofo]

This team is likely going to be playing an entirely new offensive and defensive schemes. In some cases they might be asked to forget what they've learned so far (speculating, but possible). What's our defense? I don't think our guys practiced alternate defensive schemes enough to be good at them previously. Regardless of talent, if they're changing the way they've played, there is going to be a learning curve. Hopefully by mid season they'll be clicking and making a strong push toward the post season.

[EastCoastCat]

Until I see who our PG will be, who happens to replacing our best player/all-conference guy from last year, which nobody seems to want to recognize I will wait on my final expectations.

This is fair and I disagree far less here.

I will still say, I think you have to grade roster retention and/or replacement as part of it with Lloyd, so if he didn't retain or replace Akinjo, I think that counts in an evaluation of his performance.

That said, the idea of projecting a win total is obviously heavily dependent on replacing Akinjo. Just because I feel that replacement is part of the expectation doesn't mean it won't influence how the team does.

I am sort of yes and no on this. You can't look at Akinjo's retention or replacement in a vacuum. He was able to retain everyone else including key players like Mathurin, Kerr and Tubelis. If you say CTL has to be "perfect" to retain or replace 100% of the roster given the circus situation around CSM's firing that's quite a standard you have set there.

Look, if Lloyd can pull in a TyTy then he has fucking killed it in just a short time and has to get kudo's. I would also expect we have a similar to even better results vs. last year.

If we get just an "average" PG to replace Akinjo I ain't going to ding him personally and my expectations for next season will be a bit more tempered.

[EastCoastCat]

This team is likely going to be playing an entirely new offensive and defensive schemes. In some cases they might be asked to forget what they've learned so far (speculating, but possible). What's our defense? I don't think our guys practiced alternate defensive schemes enough to be good at them previously. Regardless of talent, if they're changing the way they've played, there is going to be a learning curve. Hopefully by mid season they'll be clicking and making a strong push toward the post season.

We are not talking about learning a NFL playbook or even the Triangle offense.

These guys for the most part have played different styles of basketball all their life, including HS, AAU ball etc...Also, it's not like everyone is Sr. and have been playing in Miller's system for their entire career. I think the transition should be relatively easy after the first couple of non-conference games especially since most of the roster has already played with each other for a year.

[AzCatFan2]

If whatever PG we get to replace Akinjo doesn't have similar numbers, and Akinjo has a breakout year at Baylor, that's not necessarily Lloyd's fault, but it will look bad. The players coming back plus Akinjo had us in the top 20, if not top 15 in the country next year. If we take a step back because of the coaching replacement, that's a bad look. You never want to replace a winner with someone who doesn't do as well. And like or hate Miller, he had a lot of success at Arizona.

Hopefully Ty Ty or some other PG transfer can come in and run the show next year. And we live up to those top 15 projections.

[mofo]

This team is likely going to be playing an entirely new offensive and defensive schemes. In some cases they might be asked to forget what they've learned so far (speculating, but possible). What's our defense? I don't think our guys practiced alternate defensive schemes enough to be good at them previously. Regardless of talent, if they're changing the way they've played, there is going to be a learning curve. Hopefully by mid season they'll be clicking and making a strong push toward the post season.

We are not talking about learning a NFL playbook or even the Triangle offense.

These guys for the most part have played different styles of basketball all their life, including HS, AAU ball etc...Also, it's not like everyone is Sr. and have been playing in Miller's system for their entire career. I think the transition should be relatively easy after the first couple of non-conference games especially since most of the roster has already played with each other for a year.

Maybe. I have no idea what their experience has been, especially the euros. Why were we so bad (mostly) at zone whenever Miller mixed it in then? I'm sure they've all played zone before. I attributed it to not practicing and playing it enough at Arizona. Also, I'm not an expert by any stretch on the difficulties of different styles, but I've read a lot on here over the years that Miller's pack line was very tough the first year playing it and that year 2 was really when most players figured it out. I'm convinced some never did.

It's one thing to "know" it when you're going through drills, practicing against yourself or playing sub-par competition. It's another to know it so well that it's instinct and seamless when you're playing top competition.

[Chicat]

This team is likely going to be playing an entirely new offensive and defensive schemes. In some cases they might be asked to forget what they've learned so far (speculating, but possible). What's our defense? I don't think our guys practiced alternate defensive schemes enough to be good at them previously. Regardless of talent, if they're changing the way they've played, there is going to be a learning curve. Hopefully by mid season they'll be clicking and making a strong push toward the post season.

We are not talking about learning a NFL playbook or even the Triangle offense.

These guys for the most part have played different styles of basketball all their life, including HS, AAU ball etc...Also, it's not like everyone is Sr. and have been playing in Miller's system for their entire career. I think the transition should be relatively easy after the first couple of non-conference games especially since most of the roster has already played with each other for a year.

Maybe. I have no idea what their experience has been, especially the euros. Why were we so bad (mostly) at zone whenever Miller mixed it in then? I'm sure they've all played zone before. Also, I'm not an expert by any stretch on the difficulties of different styles, but I've read a lot on here over the years that Miller's pack line was very tough the first year playing it and that year 2 was really when most players figured it out.

We replaced the entire team last year (and multiple times before that). Getting kids to successfully implement one defense is a challenge in their first year, let alone two.

This year our roster continuity will be more typical of programs with sustained success and will help us look better on defense. That’s an advantage for Tommy Boy.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Until I see who our PG will be, who happens to replacing our best player/all-conference guy from last year, which nobody seems to want to recognize I will wait on my final expectations.

This is fair and I disagree far less here.

I will still say, I think you have to grade roster retention and/or replacement as part of it with Lloyd, so if he didn't retain or replace Akinjo, I think that counts in an evaluation of his performance.

That said, the idea of projecting a win total is obviously heavily dependent on replacing Akinjo. Just because I feel that replacement is part of the expectation doesn't mean it won't influence how the team does.

I am sort of yes and no on this. You can't look at Akinjo's retention or replacement in a vacuum. He was able to retain everyone else including key players like Mathurin, Kerr and Tubelis. If you say CTL has to be "perfect" to retain or replace 100% of the roster given the circus situation around CSM's firing that's quite a standard you have set there.

Look, if Lloyd can pull in a TyTy then he has fucking killed it in just a short time and has to get kudo's. I would also expect we have a similar to even better results vs. last year.

If we get just an "average" PG to replace Akinjo I ain't going to ding him personally and my expectations for next season will be a bit more tempered.

I don't think we're far apart. I don't think 100% retention is necessary, moreso to either retain or find a replacement.

I know replacing can pose challenges, but that's just modern CBB. Miller had that challenge. Pretty much all programs do, and this is an ideal offseason for it with tons of guys immediately eligible in the portal.

My base standard for Lloyd is continuation of the upwards momentum. There are mutiple ways to do it. For instance, if he finds someone who isn't as good as Akinjo at scoring, he can shift the load to Mathurin/Tubelis.

It's those sort of solutions I think are at the bedrock of what a solid, successful first year would be for Lloyd. Offsetting roster turnover is a necessary skill for coaches.

[Spaceman Spiff]

If whatever PG we get to replace Akinjo doesn't have similar numbers, and Akinjo has a breakout year at Baylor, that's not necessarily Lloyd's fault, but it will look bad. The players coming back plus Akinjo had us in the top 20, if not top 15 in the country next year. If we take a step back because of the coaching replacement, that's a bad look. You never want to replace a winner with someone who doesn't do as well. And like or hate Miller, he had a lot of success at Arizona.

Hopefully Ty Ty or some other PG transfer can come in and run the show next year. And we live up to those top 15 projections.

The bolded, absolutely. I think the bar set for Lloyd to be a "success" year 1 has to account for where we were with Miller.

If Miller hadn't delivered on the expectations, it would have been disappointing. If Lloyd goes backwards from those expectations, it's hard to label Year 1 a success. He's not going to get fired like Miller would have been if 21-22 is a disappointment, of course, but how he performs vs what was on deck matters.

[Alieberman]

So are we holding the bar for Lloyd in his 1st year coaching to exceed Miller in his 17th year?

[BBQ wildcat]

So are we holding the bar for Lloyd in his 1st year coaching to exceed Miller in his 17th year?

Absolutely should be that. Miller's 17th year was substandard, based on his previous history and next year was prijected to be much better. So yes, IMO Lloyd should, in his first year here, exceed last year's results

[Longhorned]

So are we holding the bar for Lloyd in his 1st year coaching to exceed Miller in his 17th year?

Kind of. Not in a way that reflects on Lloyd, but does reflect on the administration that fired Miller. First, Miller's program was damaged by the ESPN false report that was never retracted, so it's not like year 17 is on a continuous trajectory. Second, Miller was righting the ship, and then got fired for not meeting expectations on the court. You don't fire Miller for that, only to hire a replacement who meets lower expectations.

[Alieberman]

So are we holding the bar for Lloyd in his 1st year coaching to exceed Miller in his 17th year?

Kind of. Not in a way that reflects on Lloyd, but does reflect on the administration that fired Miller. First, Miller's program was damaged by the ESPN false report that was never retracted, so it's not like year 17 is on a continuous trajectory. Second, Miller was righting the ship, and then got fired for not meeting expectations on the court. You don't fire Miller for that, only to hire a replacement who meets lower expectations.

We all know Miller didn't get fired because of results on the court. Ricky Bobby and his puppet boy can say whatever they want but we all know it's BS.


I think it's fair to expect Lloyd to get further than Miller ever did (Final 4+)

But I don't expect that to happen right away.

[SCCats]

So are we holding the bar for Lloyd in his 1st year coaching to exceed Miller in his 12th year?

There’s a small group of people who are (hilariously) pushing that general concept.

The same group that backed miller through all those 30 plus (and sometime way 30 plus, like 70 rpi 2018) rpi seasons now want a higher standard for the new guy.

Who knew they demanded results so much?? What a change!!

I will say it’s something of a nice change instead of just reflexively backing those broken Miller years. So horray for having rising expectations for the program again, right?!?!

[Spaceman Spiff]

So are we holding the bar for Lloyd in his 1st year coaching to exceed Miller in his 17th year?

Me, no. I'd put the bar somewhere around the frack Miller was on.

This being Lloyd's first year as a HC, if his lack of experience makes it impossible to perform around what we expected, I think you have to ask if we hired the right guy.

In other words, if it being his 1st year as a HC is enough of a handicap to adjust the normal expectations down, why did we hire a guy with that handicap?

My expectation is we hired him because we thought his lack of experience wouldn't be a handicap and he'd use his other qualities to compensate.

[Spaceman Spiff]

So are we holding the bar for Lloyd in his 1st year coaching to exceed Miller in his 12th year?

There’s a small group of people who are (hilariously) pushing that general concept.

The same group that backed miller through all those 30 plus (and sometime way 30 plus, like 70 rpi 2018) rpi seasons now want a higher standard for the new guy.

Who knew they demanded results so much?? What a change!!

I will say it’s something of a nice change instead of just reflexively backing those broken Miller years. So horray for having rising expectations for the program again, right?!?!

1, Miller got fired for those seasons. You've spent years railing against him for that and all of a sudden drop it with Lloyd. The same results you cheered Miller's firing for, I'm betting you won't do the same with Lloyd.

2. Your position lacks any analytical or factual depth. The 30ish KenPom rating was for a team where we were returning a 7 man core. It's natural to expect the returners get better.

So when you scoff at expecting more...yes, I expect Mathurin, Terry, Kriisa and Tubelis will be better as sophs than as freshmen. Same with Brown and Koloko. When you return a lot of guys, it's not unreasonable to think they improve.

[Spaceman Spiff]

So are we holding the bar for Lloyd in his 1st year coaching to exceed Miller in his 17th year?

Kind of. Not in a way that reflects on Lloyd, but does reflect on the administration that fired Miller. First, Miller's program was damaged by the ESPN false report that was never retracted, so it's not like year 17 is on a continuous trajectory. Second, Miller was righting the ship, and then got fired for not meeting expectations on the court. You don't fire Miller for that, only to hire a replacement who meets lower expectations.

We all know Miller didn't get fired because of results on the court. Ricky Bobby and his puppet boy can say whatever they want but we all know it's BS.


I think it's fair to expect Lloyd to get further than Miller ever did (Final 4+)

But I don't expect that to happen right away.

It may not be fair to Lloyd, but when BobRob advances results and program direction as the reason for Miller's firing, that impacts the expectations for Lloyd.

Yeah, it's likely BS, but it still sets a bar. Otherwise, what's the bar, kiss Robbins's butt faster and more frequently than Sean Miller?

If that's the public standard, it is what it is, IMO.

[AzCatFan2]

Before Miller was let go, ESPN had us too Early Top 25 ranked at 15. We were returning the core of a team that was a bubble team that had very little experience playing together. And by the end of the year, knocked off USC at USC. The potential to be Arizona good was set to come back to Tucson.

Firing Miller put threw a monkey wrench into things, and so far, Lloyd has looked like he is doing a great job. But we still have the core, minus Akinjo, so why should the expectations change if the coach changes? If Miller was likely to get the team to the second weekend of the tournament, shouldn't we hold the new guy to the same standard? And shouldn't we be upset if that doesn't happen, especially if Akinjo ends up taking Baylor deep in March?

This is Fisch taking over a winless team with no expectations. This is Lloyd, taking over a team that had a legit chance to make a Sweet 16 or more before Miller was let go. If Lloyd doesn't live up to expectations in year one, he better get there by year 3 or 4. Otherwise, why replace Miller, who we know has the ability to win the conference, win conference tournaments, and make deep runs in March?

[SCCats]

So are we holding the bar for Lloyd in his 1st year coaching to exceed Miller in his 12th year?

There’s a small group of people who are (hilariously) pushing that general concept.

The same group that backed miller through all those 30 plus (and sometime way 30 plus, like 70 rpi 2018) rpi seasons now want a higher standard for the new guy.

Who knew they demanded results so much?? What a change!!

I will say it’s something of a nice change instead of just reflexively backing those broken Miller years. So horray for having rising expectations for the program again, right?!?!

1, Miller got fired for those seasons. You've spent years railing against him for that and all of a sudden drop it with Lloyd. The same results you cheered Miller's firing for, I'm betting you won't do the same with Lloyd.

2. Your position lacks any analytical or factual depth. The 30ish KenPom rating was for a team where we were returning a 7 man core. It's natural to expect the returners get better.

So when you scoff at expecting more...yes, I expect Mathurin, Terry, Kriisa and Tubelis will be better as sophs than as freshmen. Same with Brown and Koloko. When you return a lot of guys, it's not unreasonable to think they improve.

All it took for our expectations to go up was a coaching change.

It makes you wonder if we should have had the coaching change earlier.

Had we gotten complacent, accepting shit year after shit year?

We had. But that shit basketball wasn’t Arizona basketball.

But now with the new coach our expectations are resurgent (some for the appropriate reasons...and some for inappropriate ones!). But hopefully Arizona basketball is back!!

And I can tell we’re all excited!

[Spaceman Spiff]

So are we holding the bar for Lloyd in his 1st year coaching to exceed Miller in his 12th year?

There’s a small group of people who are (hilariously) pushing that general concept.

The same group that backed miller through all those 30 plus (and sometime way 30 plus, like 70 rpi 2018) rpi seasons now want a higher standard for the new guy.

Who knew they demanded results so much?? What a change!!

I will say it’s something of a nice change instead of just reflexively backing those broken Miller years. So horray for having rising expectations for the program again, right?!?!

1, Miller got fired for those seasons. You've spent years railing against him for that and all of a sudden drop it with Lloyd. The same results you cheered Miller's firing for, I'm betting you won't do the same with Lloyd.

2. Your position lacks any analytical or factual depth. The 30ish KenPom rating was for a team where we were returning a 7 man core. It's natural to expect the returners get better.

So when you scoff at expecting more...yes, I expect Mathurin, Terry, Kriisa and Tubelis will be better as sophs than as freshmen. Same with Brown and Koloko. When you return a lot of guys, it's not unreasonable to think they improve.

All it took for our expectations to go up was a coaching change.

It makes you wonder if we should have had the coaching change earlier.

Had we gotten complacent, accepting shit year after shit year?

We had. But that shit basketball wasn’t Arizona basketball.

But now with the new coach our expectations are resurgent (some for the appropriate reasons...and some for inappropriate ones!). But hopefully Arizona basketball is back!!

And I can tell we’re all excited!

The bolded just ignores facts. All major rankings had us top 15 before Miller's exit. Expecting top 15 results is not expectations going up. It's expecting we don't perform under expectations.

[EastCoastCat]

I have to admit this thread is starting to get highly entertaining...

[KaibabKat]

So are we holding the bar for Lloyd in his 1st year coaching to exceed Miller in his 17th year?

Three wins against KenPom top 25 teams should do it.

[gronk4heisman]

So are we holding the bar for Lloyd in his 1st year coaching to exceed Miller in his 12th year?

There’s a small group of people who are (hilariously) pushing that general concept.

The same group that backed miller through all those 30 plus (and sometime way 30 plus, like 70 rpi 2018) rpi seasons now want a higher standard for the new guy.

Who knew they demanded results so much?? What a change!!

I will say it’s something of a nice change instead of just reflexively backing those broken Miller years. So horray for having rising expectations for the program again, right?!?!

1, Miller got fired for those seasons. You've spent years railing against him for that and all of a sudden drop it with Lloyd. The same results you cheered Miller's firing for, I'm betting you won't do the same with Lloyd.

2. Your position lacks any analytical or factual depth. The 30ish KenPom rating was for a team where we were returning a 7 man core. It's natural to expect the returners get better.

So when you scoff at expecting more...yes, I expect Mathurin, Terry, Kriisa and Tubelis will be better as sophs than as freshmen. Same with Brown and Koloko. When you return a lot of guys, it's not unreasonable to think they improve.

All it took for our expectations to go up was a coaching change.

It makes you wonder if we should have had the coaching change earlier.

Had we gotten complacent, accepting shit year after shit year?

We had. But that shit basketball wasn’t Arizona basketball.

But now with the new coach our expectations are resurgent (some for the appropriate reasons...and some for inappropriate ones!). But hopefully Arizona basketball is back!!

And I can tell we’re all excited!

The bolded just ignores facts. All major rankings had us top 15 before Miller's exit. Expecting top 15 results is not expectations going up. It's expecting we don't perform under expectations.

Only one preseason poll had us in the top 15 (https://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketbal ... basketball), the majority had us around there though. I think reasonable expectations assuming we get a decent PG to replace Akinjo is in the 15 - 30 range, which would mean making the tournament and winning at least one game. This is more than we have done in 5 of the last 6 years for various reasons, but should be the bare minimum expectation for Arizona basketball.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Before Miller was let go, ESPN had us too Early Top 25 ranked at 15. We were returning the core of a team that was a bubble team that had very little experience playing together. And by the end of the year, knocked off USC at USC. The potential to be Arizona good was set to come back to Tucson.

Firing Miller put threw a monkey wrench into things, and so far, Lloyd has looked like he is doing a great job. But we still have the core, minus Akinjo, so why should the expectations change if the coach changes? If Miller was likely to get the team to the second weekend of the tournament, shouldn't we hold the new guy to the same standard? And shouldn't we be upset if that doesn't happen, especially if Akinjo ends up taking Baylor deep in March?

This is Fisch taking over a winless team with no expectations. This is Lloyd, taking over a team that had a legit chance to make a Sweet 16 or more before Miller was let go. If Lloyd doesn't live up to expectations in year one, he better get there by year 3 or 4. Otherwise, why replace Miller, who we know has the ability to win the conference, win conference tournaments, and make deep runs in March?

My man/woman. I'm 100% in on this.

I'd add that Akinjo declared before Miller was fired. The reality is people leave and retention is what we ask of ANY coach, Miller, Lloyd, Floyd or O'Neill.

New coaches, old coaches, identifying and returning talent is a major part of the job. Sure, there are factors beyond Lloyd's control, but the reality is he's getting paid equal to Miller to solve those issues.

[Spaceman Spiff]

There’s a small group of people who are (hilariously) pushing that general concept.

The same group that backed miller through all those 30 plus (and sometime way 30 plus, like 70 rpi 2018) rpi seasons now want a higher standard for the new guy.

Who knew they demanded results so much?? What a change!!

I will say it’s something of a nice change instead of just reflexively backing those broken Miller years. So horray for having rising expectations for the program again, right?!?!

1, Miller got fired for those seasons. You've spent years railing against him for that and all of a sudden drop it with Lloyd. The same results you cheered Miller's firing for, I'm betting you won't do the same with Lloyd.

2. Your position lacks any analytical or factual depth. The 30ish KenPom rating was for a team where we were returning a 7 man core. It's natural to expect the returners get better.

So when you scoff at expecting more...yes, I expect Mathurin, Terry, Kriisa and Tubelis will be better as sophs than as freshmen. Same with Brown and Koloko. When you return a lot of guys, it's not unreasonable to think they improve.

All it took for our expectations to go up was a coaching change.

It makes you wonder if we should have had the coaching change earlier.

Had we gotten complacent, accepting shit year after shit year?

We had. But that shit basketball wasn’t Arizona basketball.

But now with the new coach our expectations are resurgent (some for the appropriate reasons...and some for inappropriate ones!). But hopefully Arizona basketball is back!!

And I can tell we’re all excited!

The bolded just ignores facts. All major rankings had us top 15 before Miller's exit. Expecting top 15 results is not expectations going up. It's expecting we don't perform under expectations.

Only one preseason poll had us in the top 15 (https://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketbal ... basketball), the majority had us around there though. I think reasonable expectations assuming we get a decent PG to replace Akinjo is in the 15 - 30 range, which would mean making the tournament and winning at least one game. This is more than we have done in 5 of the last 6 years for various reasons, but should be the bare minimum expectation for Arizona basketball.

Pardon, I think I forgot the #16 vs #15.

Really, my expectations for Lloyd are just similar to what Miller was set up to produce.

[RondaeShimmy]

Only one preseason poll had us in the top 15 (https://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketbal ... basketball), the majority had us around there though. I think reasonable expectations assuming we get a decent PG to replace Akinjo is in the 15 - 30 range, which would mean making the tournament and winning at least one game. This is more than we have done in 5 of the last 6 years for various reasons, but should be the bare minimum expectation for Arizona basketball.

I don't know why everyone assumes that the everyone returning + Miller would be a lock to be a top 15ish team (or even top 25).

Have we not learned anything from the past years not to take preseason rankings/expectations seriously.

[Longhorned]

Only one preseason poll had us in the top 15 (https://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketbal ... basketball), the majority had us around there though. I think reasonable expectations assuming we get a decent PG to replace Akinjo is in the 15 - 30 range, which would mean making the tournament and winning at least one game. This is more than we have done in 5 of the last 6 years for various reasons, but should be the bare minimum expectation for Arizona basketball.

I don't know why everyone assumes that the everyone returning + Miller would be a lock to be a top 15ish team (or even top 25).

Have we not learned anything from the past years not to take preseason rankings/expectations seriously.

I haven't learned that. I think preseason rankings are pretty accurate. As far as Arizona goes, the Ayton team was a dumb #1 ranking because that team couldn't guard anybody and didn't have an appropriate point guard, and Miller's second year squad was underrated. But I admit I haven't unlearned to align expectations with preseason rankings.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Only one preseason poll had us in the top 15 (https://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketbal ... basketball), the majority had us around there though. I think reasonable expectations assuming we get a decent PG to replace Akinjo is in the 15 - 30 range, which would mean making the tournament and winning at least one game. This is more than we have done in 5 of the last 6 years for various reasons, but should be the bare minimum expectation for Arizona basketball.

I don't know why everyone assumes that the everyone returning + Miller would be a lock to be a top 15ish team (or even top 25).

Have we not learned anything from the past years not to take preseason rankings/expectations seriously.

What else is a better gauge of preseason expectations?

As I said, I'd have used those as a baseline for Miller, along with my own personal view that they accurately captured our talent.

But bottom line, even if they're not always accurate, what is a better barometer for what to expect?