Show me the last time a team won the national championship..

RockyRaccoon · Post by **RockyRaccoon** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:43 am

With limited offensive skill players and/or a poor offensive scheme/coaching?

It really never happens in college basketball.

This isn't football. You can't win with an elite defense and a average offense. The best teams have a balance or even have that flipped to favor the offense to a certain extent.

But Miller will never feel any heat as long as he keeps winning 28+ games a year and going past the first two rounds of the tournament.

Sean Miller is a very good basketball coach but honestly if he doesn't adjust his philosophy somewhat it will be the same thing every year, which for some might be ok.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:59 am

There are six teams ranked ahead of us that average fewer points and shoot a lower percentage. Is it their scheme? No hope for Kentucky, Virginia, Villanova, Kansas, Wisconsin or Louisville?

We rank pretty high in scoring. Higher in field goal percentage. Did you know that? So I can show you teams like that. It isn't "average."

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:21 am

Let's go all the way back to last year. UConn was 143rd in scoring, 71.5. We're currently 39th, 75.1 and 14th in FG pct

UConn scored a whopping 60 points in the NC game. Shot a blazing 41 percent.

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 3:32 am

Never happens

CBCat · Post by **CBCat** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:17 am

Not so sure its scheme but there are a couple negative patterns on the Offensive end of things (including not making free throws) repeating themselves each season and want to see improvement/change.
What I personally see is something more mental than physical on that end of things. We need to run more plays to take advantage of matchups. And if we don't I hope the guys start figuring it out themselves.

michcat · Post by **michcat** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:34 am

It's not the scheme. If we had anyone on this team that could consistently hit open 3s or free throws we wouldn't be talking about this.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:20 am

michcat wrote:It's not the scheme. If we had anyone on this team that could consistently hit open 3s or free throws we wouldn't be talking about this.

Yep, just pack the paint, and let Pitts and York (besides TJ and SJ) chuck away.

Going to be nice to have Allonzo Trier on campus next year, finally a true scorer.

In the meantime, Pitts and York need to figure out how to hit an open 3 point shot. TJ never will, and neither will SJ.

BBQ wildcat · Post by **BBQ wildcat** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:26 am

And "some" players need to start making those bunnies. Tarc missed two and Rondae missed one. And those were just the glaring misses.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:44 am

RockyRaccoon wrote:But Miller will never feel any heat as long as he keeps winning 28+ games a year and going past the first two rounds of the tournament.

I can't even imagine your take on Lute circa January 13th, 1997...

luteformayor2 · Post by **luteformayor2** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:45 am

The whole college landscape is coming up for grabs as of late.

Wisconsin and Duke both imploded on the same day we did. Meanwhile, Wisconsin just lost their starting PG to a ... foot fracture (sound familiar).
Kentucky has had 2 games go to overtime against teams far worse than Oregon State. They are entering the classic kentucky phase where during any adversary, their palyers result to 1 on 1 and start chucking stupid shots from NBA jam.
Villanova is just Villanova - overrated and will get stomped in the tournament.
Kansas legitimately has no offense and no cohesion
Gonzaga is running the gauntlet against High School quality teams and we beat them so I will never accept them as better than us.
Louisville has been losing due it's terrible offense.
And Virginia has looked "pretty" good, but not great like ESPN would say. They also struggled to win their last 2 games.

There is NO clear cut favorite in college basketball anymore. The season started with 4 teams who were supposed to be the Cream - Arizona/Kentucky/Duke/Wisconsin and now it looks like any other year. There are probably 9 teams now who could win the natty, and OUR OFFENSE is better than most of them.

Let's go game by game and get our mental state up. TJ is looking a leader again and that may be the most important part of our path to the Natty.

salim'sheadband · Post by **salim'sheadband** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:32 am

People who have nothing to say when we're doing well and come back to shit all over everything when things are bad are the fucking worst, wouldn't you all agree?

scumdevils86 · Post by **scumdevils86** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:35 am

Chicat wrote:
RockyRaccoon wrote:But Miller will never feel any heat as long as he keeps winning 28+ games a year and going past the first two rounds of the tournament.
I can't even imagine your take on Lute circa January 13th, 1997...

f'realz tho

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:43 am

Merkin wrote:
michcat wrote:It's not the scheme. If we had anyone on this team that could consistently hit open 3s or free throws we wouldn't be talking about this.
Yep, just pack the paint, and let Pitts and York (besides TJ and SJ) chuck away.

Going to be nice to have Allonzo Trier on campus next year, finally a true scorer.

In the meantime, Pitts and York need to figure out how to hit an open 3 point shot. TJ never will, and neither will SJ.

He'll probably back out. It would be like Peyton Manning playing for Dick Tomey.

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:45 am

salim'sheadband wrote:People who have nothing to say when we're doing well and come back to shit all over everything when things are bad are the fucking worst, wouldn't you all agree?

Agree 100%.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:45 am

Chicat wrote:
RockyRaccoon wrote:But Miller will never feel any heat as long as he keeps winning 28+ games a year and going past the first two rounds of the tournament.
I can't even imagine your take on Lute circa January 13th, 1997...

"We will never win an NC with Olson's scheme. Hell, we're lucky to get out of the first round anymore. Too soft. Too stubborn. Doesn't use timeouts."

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:59 am

CBCat wrote:Not so sure its scheme but there are a couple negative patterns on the Offensive end of things (including not making free throws) repeating themselves each season and want to see improvement/change.
What I personally see is something more mental than physical on that end of things. We need to run more plays to take advantage of matchups. And if we don't I hope the guys start figuring it out themselves.

It's the past two seasons on free throws. Last year, it was Aaron Gordon. This year, multiple guys have regressed. Frustrating for sure, but the first four Miller seasons:

2010: 73.3
2011: 74.6
2012: 70.5
2013: 74.9

Doesn't suggest Miller is clueless on the topic.

1997 team: 65.5

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:05 am

On FTs, it's not just how many you make them, but when you make them. Front ends of one and ones end of a tight game are killers. No stat for that.

gumby wrote:Doesn't use timeouts."

Lute pretty much always had time outs left on the board. I was watching the last 5 minutes of the Santa Clara game the other day (why I don't know), and Lute must have used 4 time outs in the last minute.

Almost worked, Nash missed 2 FTs with 7 seconds left, the rebound went right through the Arizona player's hands (Mills?), the Santa Clara player retrieved the ball and was immediately fouled. That player missed both FTs too, but Damon couldn't hit on a long 3.

Contrast that to the OSU game, where the Cats had 26 seconds left, no time outs, and no play to run. Not that Lute had a problem with it, he always felt that the players should have enough grasp of the system to win the games themselves without his help.

Machina · Post by **Machina** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:14 am

Merkin wrote:On FTs, it's not just how many you make them, but when you make them. Front ends of one and ones end of a tight game are killers. No stat for that.

gumby wrote:Doesn't use timeouts."
Lute pretty much always had time outs left on the board. I was watching the last 5 minutes of the Santa Clara game the other day (why I don't know), and Lute must have used 4 time outs in the last minute.

Almost worked, Nash missed 2 FTs with 7 seconds left, the rebound went right through the Arizona player's hands (Mills?), the Santa Clara player retrieved the ball and was immediately fouled. That player missed both FTs too, but Damon couldn't hit on a long 3.

Contrast that to the OSU game, where the Cats had 26 seconds left, no time outs, and no play to run. Not that Lute had a problem with it, he always felt that the players should have enough grasp of the system to win the games themselves without his help.

Bingo on the bold red. That is worse than missing two when you miss the front end of a one and one in a tight game. I wanted to put a true metric of FT success where front ends of one and ones are count for more, and 1s count more for momentum and FTs within a two possession game late in the game count for more. But I cannot figure out the exact numbers to use for that and if I posted it here it would just be torn to shreds by a few posters.

Blue seemed to happen a few times vs OSU. Not sure that is reason for concern, but just a point worth noting.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:23 am

Put missed front ends in the Turnover category.

CBCat · Post by **CBCat** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:43 pm

Machina wrote:
Merkin wrote:On FTs, it's not just how many you make them, but when you make them. Front ends of one and ones end of a tight game are killers. No stat for that.

gumby wrote:Doesn't use timeouts."
Lute pretty much always had time outs left on the board. I was watching the last 5 minutes of the Santa Clara game the other day (why I don't know), and Lute must have used 4 time outs in the last minute.

Almost worked, Nash missed 2 FTs with 7 seconds left, the rebound went right through the Arizona player's hands (Mills?), the Santa Clara player retrieved the ball and was immediately fouled. That player missed both FTs too, but Damon couldn't hit on a long 3.

Contrast that to the OSU game, where the Cats had 26 seconds left, no time outs, and no play to run. Not that Lute had a problem with it, he always felt that the players should have enough grasp of the system to win the games themselves without his help.
Bingo on the bold red. That is worse than missing two when you miss the front end of a one and one in a tight game. I wanted to put a true metric of FT success where front ends of one and ones are count for more, and 1s count more for momentum and FTs within a two possession game late in the game count for more. But I cannot figure out the exact numbers to use for that and if I posted it here it would just be torn to shreds by a few posters.

Blue seemed to happen a few times vs OSU. Not sure that is reason for concern, but just a point worth noting.

What Merkin said^

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:02 pm

Rocky has always been good at starting shit threads.

Reydituto · Post by **Reydituto** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 4:32 pm

salim'sheadband wrote:People who have nothing to say when we're doing well and come back to shit all over everything when things are bad are the fucking worst, wouldn't you all agree?

No kidding. I almost wonder if it's the same poster ...

RockyRaccoon · Post by **RockyRaccoon** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:14 pm

gumby wrote:Let's go all the way back to last year. UConn was 143rd in scoring, 71.5. We're currently 39th, 75.1 and 14th in FG pct

UConn scored a whopping 60 points in the NC game. Shot a blazing 41 percent.

lol

I can assure you, we don't have a Shabazz Napier.

RockyRaccoon · Post by **RockyRaccoon** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:17 pm

Chicat wrote:
RockyRaccoon wrote:But Miller will never feel any heat as long as he keeps winning 28+ games a year and going past the first two rounds of the tournament.
I can't even imagine your take on Lute circa January 13th, 1997...

Christ.

Don't even get me started on one of the most overrated coaches in college basketball history.

Guy always had a top recruiting class and won one NC and went to four final 4s in 25 years.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:30 pm

RockyRaccoon wrote:
Chicat wrote:
RockyRaccoon wrote:But Miller will never feel any heat as long as he keeps winning 28+ games a year and going past the first two rounds of the tournament.
I can't even imagine your take on Lute circa January 13th, 1997...
Christ.

Don't even get me started on one of the most overrated coaches in college basketball history.

Guy always had a top recruiting class and won one NC and went to four final 4s in 25 years.

Oh, ok. I get it now.

RockyRaccoon · Post by **RockyRaccoon** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:32 pm

Chicat wrote:
RockyRaccoon wrote:
Chicat wrote:
RockyRaccoon wrote:But Miller will never feel any heat as long as he keeps winning 28+ games a year and going past the first two rounds of the tournament.
I can't even imagine your take on Lute circa January 13th, 1997...
Christ.

Don't even get me started on one of the most overrated coaches in college basketball history.

Guy always had a top recruiting class and won one NC and went to four final 4s in 25 years.
Oh, ok. I get it now.

For anyone to suggest he is in the conversation for college basketball's greatest coaches is insulting to the legends.

I'm a MUCH bigger fan of Sean Miller than I am of Lute Olson.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:34 pm

RockyRaccoon wrote:
Chicat wrote:
RockyRaccoon wrote:
Chicat wrote:
RockyRaccoon wrote:But Miller will never feel any heat as long as he keeps winning 28+ games a year and going past the first two rounds of the tournament.
I can't even imagine your take on Lute circa January 13th, 1997...
Christ.

Don't even get me started on one of the most overrated coaches in college basketball history.

Guy always had a top recruiting class and won one NC and went to four final 4s in 25 years.
Oh, ok. I get it now.
For anyone to suggest he is in the conversation for college basketball's greatest coaches is insulting to the legends.

Ok, great. Thanks.

RockyRaccoon · Post by **RockyRaccoon** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:44 pm

I have to choke back vomit every time I'm at McKale and the crowd rises to their feet as the silver haired "King" take his place among the plebs before the game starts.

The only connection that man has with royalty is the fact he and Henry VIII were both married about six times each.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:55 pm

Ok Rocky. Sounds good. Thanks again.

pokinmik · Post by **pokinmik** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:03 pm

Ban worthy post from the raccoon.

RockyRaccoon · Post by **RockyRaccoon** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:04 pm

pokinmik wrote:Ban worthy post from the raccoon.

Why?

pokinmik · Post by **pokinmik** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:10 pm

RockyRaccoon wrote:
pokinmik wrote:Ban worthy post from the raccoon.
Why?

It's pretty obvious. Fuck free speech, Lute Olson shouldn't be talked about like that on an AZ msg board. But do what you gotta do for some attention I'm going to bed.

RockyRaccoon · Post by **RockyRaccoon** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:20 pm

pokinmik wrote:
RockyRaccoon wrote:
pokinmik wrote:Ban worthy post from the raccoon.
Why?
It's pretty obvious. Fuck free speech, Lute Olson shouldn't be talked about like that on an AZ msg board. But do what you gotta do for some attention I'm going to bed.

That's a sad and disturbing attitude.

Je Suis Rocky.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:52 pm

Well that just about sums up Rocky.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:41 pm

RockyRaccoon wrote:
gumby wrote:Let's go all the way back to last year. UConn was 143rd in scoring, 71.5. We're currently 39th, 75.1 and 14th in FG pct

UConn scored a whopping 60 points in the NC game. Shot a blazing 41 percent.
lol

I can assure you, we don't have a Shabazz Napier.

You asked. I answered. You're just trolling at this point. Oh, and ... lol.

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:21 am

This is why we can't have nice things.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 7:53 am

RockyRaccoon wrote:
Chicat wrote:
RockyRaccoon wrote:But Miller will never feel any heat as long as he keeps winning 28+ games a year and going past the first two rounds of the tournament.
I can't even imagine your take on Lute circa January 13th, 1997...
Christ.

Don't even get me started on one of the most overrated coaches in college basketball history.

Guy always had a top recruiting class and won one NC and went to four final 4s in 25 years.

Who always had a top recruiting class? Remember that one year when his only recruit was Dion Broome? Early Lute excelled at finding diamonds in the rough.

catgrad97 · Post by **catgrad97** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:57 am

RockyRaccoon wrote:For anyone to suggest he is in the conversation for college basketball's greatest coaches is insulting to the legends.

I'm a MUCH bigger fan of Sean Miller than I am of Lute Olson.

Lute Olson is in the Hall of Fame. By any standard, he IS a legend.

Sean Miller is a legend in the making.

RockyRaccoon, whoever the hell that is, will only ever be a legend in his own mind.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 12:23 pm

Rocky is destined for greatness.

Reydituto · Post by **Reydituto** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 3:07 pm

Troll thread is really trollrific.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 3:24 pm

Not that this thread deserves it, but Lute Olson did not have the top recruiting classes. He never got a player that UCLA wanted. One of the things he's known for his his "diamond in the rough" approach to recruiting and player development.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 3:35 pm

Nobody should need to defend the coach that made the existence of this very message board a possibility.

KaibabKat · Post by **KaibabKat** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 3:43 pm

RockyRaccoon wrote:With limited offensive skill players and/or a poor offensive scheme/coaching?

Guess someone would have to go all the way back to 2014 to see that.

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