Lauri Markkanen

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Re: Lauri Markkanen

Post by rgdeuce »

EVCat wrote:You don't have to have traditional PG play to win, as long as the person playing at the point is not a liability who is forced to play the position because you have to have a ball handler. Point play hurts when you are playing your 9th best player just to have someone running point who has the requisite skills. If you have wings with handle, or a "point forward", or can start offense out of a few different sets, and are truly running some motion, the idea of a TJ McConnell at point isn't required. A TJ is nice and a luxury because you can rely on one clear leader and ball handler, but it isn't required. There were more than a few successful UA teams that did not have a "classic" PG...Damon was a scoring 1, Steve Kerr was vary rarely the initiator of offense, Mark Lyons (though he had other deficiencies, he still was successful), Matt Othick was more a shooter and shared the start offense with MM and a couple of small forwards with capability (Buechler, Mills).

I know TJ is seared into our minds. But if we have ball handling from all three wings, and some PF play with handle, we do NOT need to force the issue with a "true" or "classic" point.

Last year was a totally different beast. We had a lot of bigger guys. We had a freshman at one wing, Gabe was a mess with the ball in pressure situations, and we had big guys who couldn't dribble. We HAD to force PJC and Kadeem into that responsibility, and it showed in the Wichita State game badly...when they took Kadeem out of the game, there was no relief.

This year, we will have flexibility at the 4, Trier is a year older and will be able to take more of the ball duties, Kobi will be a scorer but can run point effective to be a part timer, and Smith and others can play 3/4 and provide release/handle in traps and at mid court, and can also initiate offense. It is a totally different situation. We can run true motion with an interchangeable 1-3 and sometimes 4.

A PG is important. But it doesn't have to be a traditional "100% start the offense" guy, especially if you have motion principles.
Agree. PG isn't going to be a strength but I don't think it is going to downright kill us. In some games it will be exposed and that is to be expected. That's just basketball. You just adjust and hope the rest of the guys can pick up the slack, and you make the most out of the good possessions. Sometimes you are going to take your lumps, it is what it is. Obviously it will be a work in progress but I'm not super worried at this point.

That is half of the struggle with the NCAA tournament anyhow, drawing the favorable matchup. That was why I hated the Wichita State draw and chalked it up to a loss barring a miracle before it happened (which I hate doing), because of their defense and their defensive pressure. We saw limited pressure during the year and only a few quality defenses, but certainly not to that level. I remember posting here after the game and asking Spliff about their pressure because I had not seen anything like that before- they took principals from several different presses/traps and made their hybrid version of it. TJ and a veteran point guard with plus skills and experience would be caught off guard, but they would figure it out fairly quickly and push us through. Hell, a guy like TJ wouldn't even need a timeout and CSM saying, "Here is what they are doing, here is what we are going to do," that discussion would be to get the other four on the court on the same page and let them know the attack. PJC and Kadeem weren't those guys and it killed us. Once they somewhat got a handle on just getting the ball across the timeline, then they were completely off their games and running the offense 10 plus feet back from where it needed to be ran (thanks in part to WSU's halfcourt D too). Zeus was the only guy on the court in the first half that looked both competent and like he wanted to be out there. But now guess what, they've both seen it and can grow from it.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen

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Quit discussing! Football approaches! And I want to chew some gum, too!
Right where I want to be.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen

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EVCat wrote:I think we really ought to consider letting the season start and see what we have.

I am not saying we should never discuss prospects. But we are close enough to have football to focus on, and after seeing the team for a bit in November and December, we will have a lot better idea if they have the pieces to possibly gell.
This is about the oddest lead-in to a very lengthy piece of pre-season analysis that I have ever read. :)
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Re: Lauri Markkanen

Post by EVCat »

rgdeuce wrote:
Agree. PG isn't going to be a strength but I don't think it is going to downright kill us. In some games it will be exposed and that is to be expected. That's just basketball. You just adjust and hope the rest of the guys can pick up the slack, and you make the most out of the good possessions. Sometimes you are going to take your lumps, it is what it is. Obviously it will be a work in progress but I'm not super worried at this point.

That is half of the struggle with the NCAA tournament anyhow, drawing the favorable matchup. That was why I hated the Wichita State draw and chalked it up to a loss barring a miracle before it happened (which I hate doing), because of their defense and their defensive pressure. We saw limited pressure during the year and only a few quality defenses, but certainly not to that level. I remember posting here after the game and asking Spliff about their pressure because I had not seen anything like that before- they took principals from several different presses/traps and made their hybrid version of it. TJ and a veteran point guard with plus skills and experience would be caught off guard, but they would figure it out fairly quickly and push us through. Hell, a guy like TJ wouldn't even need a timeout and CSM saying, "Here is what they are doing, here is what we are going to do," that discussion would be to get the other four on the court on the same page and let them know the attack. PJC and Kadeem weren't those guys and it killed us. Once they somewhat got a handle on just getting the ball across the timeline, then they were completely off their games and running the offense 10 plus feet back from where it needed to be ran (thanks in part to WSU's halfcourt D too). Zeus was the only guy on the court in the first half that looked both competent and like he wanted to be out there. But now guess what, they've both seen it and can grow from it.
Right on. A lot of people were pulling for WSU with that kind of blind "the mid major is a better opponent than the major conference underachiever" line of thinking. First, WSU was the 2nd worst missed seeding in the tournament (Oregon State was the worst. We were right in the mix). And not only was WSU, with all players back, a 6 or 7 seed, not a 12, but they were a back court pressuring team against a team with no point or dominant ball handler. I said before the game we had to move quick and get into early offense ASAP to get the ball down low before their guard pressure pushed our point of attack back to 25 feet. If we could rebound and run, not to score on the fast break but just to get the ball moving before they set up, we'd be OK. And we would have been, I think, if we hadn't missed like 74 shots in a row, mostly good looks. We broke early, got chippies at the block, and missed. Then the body language gave the story...we were frustrated, and slowed down. When we slowed down, they started picking us up at mid court. Kadeem was so spooked, he dribbled a ball off his leg and out of bounds once, and lost the dribble before pressure a few times. The key was to get the ball to Zeus or whomever on the block in early offense. It didn't have to go up...just move from there. But after our shooting woes, no one seemed to have the heart to do anything.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen

Post by Spaceman Spiff »

EVCat wrote:
rgdeuce wrote:
Agree. PG isn't going to be a strength but I don't think it is going to downright kill us. In some games it will be exposed and that is to be expected. That's just basketball. You just adjust and hope the rest of the guys can pick up the slack, and you make the most out of the good possessions. Sometimes you are going to take your lumps, it is what it is. Obviously it will be a work in progress but I'm not super worried at this point.

That is half of the struggle with the NCAA tournament anyhow, drawing the favorable matchup. That was why I hated the Wichita State draw and chalked it up to a loss barring a miracle before it happened (which I hate doing), because of their defense and their defensive pressure. We saw limited pressure during the year and only a few quality defenses, but certainly not to that level. I remember posting here after the game and asking Spliff about their pressure because I had not seen anything like that before- they took principals from several different presses/traps and made their hybrid version of it. TJ and a veteran point guard with plus skills and experience would be caught off guard, but they would figure it out fairly quickly and push us through. Hell, a guy like TJ wouldn't even need a timeout and CSM saying, "Here is what they are doing, here is what we are going to do," that discussion would be to get the other four on the court on the same page and let them know the attack. PJC and Kadeem weren't those guys and it killed us. Once they somewhat got a handle on just getting the ball across the timeline, then they were completely off their games and running the offense 10 plus feet back from where it needed to be ran (thanks in part to WSU's halfcourt D too). Zeus was the only guy on the court in the first half that looked both competent and like he wanted to be out there. But now guess what, they've both seen it and can grow from it.
Right on. A lot of people were pulling for WSU with that kind of blind "the mid major is a better opponent than the major conference underachiever" line of thinking. First, WSU was the 2nd worst missed seeding in the tournament (Oregon State was the worst. We were right in the mix). And not only was WSU, with all players back, a 6 or 7 seed, not a 12, but they were a back court pressuring team against a team with no point or dominant ball handler. I said before the game we had to move quick and get into early offense ASAP to get the ball down low before their guard pressure pushed our point of attack back to 25 feet. If we could rebound and run, not to score on the fast break but just to get the ball moving before they set up, we'd be OK. And we would have been, I think, if we hadn't missed like 74 shots in a row, mostly good looks. We broke early, got chippies at the block, and missed. Then the body language gave the story...we were frustrated, and slowed down. When we slowed down, they started picking us up at mid court. Kadeem was so spooked, he dribbled a ball off his leg and out of bounds once, and lost the dribble before pressure a few times. The key was to get the ball to Zeus or whomever on the block in early offense. It didn't have to go up...just move from there. But after our shooting woes, no one seemed to have the heart to do anything.
Wichita was a bad draw. PJC is not strong vs ball pressure. KA has moments, but it isn't natural for him. Gabe was never great against ball pressure. Zo has potential, but he could be better. Some of our other rotation guys (Tollefsen, etc) were just not great handlers period.

Wichita showed what an experienced team can do defensively. Being able to implement complex defensive looks and smoothly transition from one to the other is hard for a young team.

The upside of this year: KS has real potential as a lead guard vs pressure. He's athletic and big enough to see over pressure. RA is a better wing handler than we had last year, period. LM is a pressure outlet in terms of being good with the ball and distributing. He's ahead of RA and Zeus as a freshman, IMO.

We have a lot more options this year. I think we have a lot more finishers too.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen

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Re: Lauri Markkanen

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Dude looks pretty jacked.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen

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Spaceman Spiff wrote:Dude looks pretty jacked.
He's been playing alongside and against grown men for a while now. That'll inspire you to hit the gym.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen

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Spaceman Spiff wrote:Dude looks pretty jacked.
I saw him outside of McKale last week. He's got a lot more developed upper body than when Zues was an incoming FR.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen

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Spaceman Spiff wrote:Dude looks pretty jacked.
Should help him finnish.
Right where I want to be.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen

Post by Alieberman »

gumby wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:Dude looks pretty jacked.
Should help him finnish.
There has never been a more Gumbier response!

Well done
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Re: Lauri Markkanen

Post by Spaceman Spiff »

wyo-cat wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:Dude looks pretty jacked.
I saw him outside of McKale last week. He's got a lot more developed upper body than when Zues was an incoming FR.
It jumps out at me because I remember seeing him when he first committed and thinking he needed to develop physically but had all the skills. He seems to be developing physically just fine. Add the tremendous skill set in, and...
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Re: Lauri Markkanen

Post by Spaceman Spiff »

Is Lauri a top 5 pick?

http://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcat ... 7c4a9.html" target="_blank

I'm really trying to contain my excitement, and headlines like that aren't helping.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen

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Lauri needs to demonstrate that he can rebound and defend at a high level. His offense seems further along right now, and it's not hard to imagine pro scouts cooling on him as a prospect if he's getting pushed around in the paint and getting scored on. Chances are he won't be in Tucson long, and that his game will get the fine tuning it needs at the next level.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen

Post by Spaceman Spiff »

Beachcat97 wrote:Lauri needs to demonstrate that he can rebound and defend at a high level. His offense seems further along right now, and it's not hard to imagine pro scouts cooling on him as a prospect if he's getting pushed around in the paint and getting scored on. Chances are he won't be in Tucson long, and that his game will get the fine tuning it needs at the next level.
Yes, the NBA would never draft someone top 5 if they needed a little work on D.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen

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Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:Lauri needs to demonstrate that he can rebound and defend at a high level. His offense seems further along right now, and it's not hard to imagine pro scouts cooling on him as a prospect if he's getting pushed around in the paint and getting scored on. Chances are he won't be in Tucson long, and that his game will get the fine tuning it needs at the next level.
Yes, the NBA would never draft someone top 5 if they needed a little work on D.
Needing a little work is one thing. Those recent videos of him show him getting beaten on D and out-rebounded repeatedly, at times by smaller players.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen

Post by Spaceman Spiff »

Beachcat97 wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:Lauri needs to demonstrate that he can rebound and defend at a high level. His offense seems further along right now, and it's not hard to imagine pro scouts cooling on him as a prospect if he's getting pushed around in the paint and getting scored on. Chances are he won't be in Tucson long, and that his game will get the fine tuning it needs at the next level.
Yes, the NBA would never draft someone top 5 if they needed a little work on D.
Needing a little work is one thing. Those recent videos of him show him getting beaten on D and out-rebounded repeatedly, at times by smaller players.
You and I must be watching different videos. DX has a weaknesses video, and even in their video spotlighting his weaknessez, they don't go nearly as far as you do.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen

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So what are you saying, SS? That he's not far from being a top 5 pick right now?
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Re: Lauri Markkanen

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Beachcat97 wrote:So what are you saying, SS? That he's not far from being a top 5 pick right now?
I see him as a challenger for it. It is a very strong draft class, so almost no one is a top five lock. Markannen is one of those guys who is lottery level and can move into that conversation.

Having areas to work on isn't odd. Ben Simmons went #1 and he is a decent, not great defender and cannot shoot the J. Jahlil Okafor, not a good defender. Name a top 5 pick and no one is a complete package. Lauri is a solid contender for a top five slot.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen

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Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:So what are you saying, SS? That he's not far from being a top 5 pick right now?
I see him as a challenger for it. It is a very strong draft class, so almost no one is a top five lock. Markannen is one of those guys who is lottery level and can move into that conversation.

Having areas to work on isn't odd. Ben Simmons went #1 and he is a decent, not great defender and cannot shoot the J. Jahlil Okafor, not a good defender. Name a top 5 pick and no one is a complete package. Lauri is a solid contender for a top five slot.
Simmons and Okafor were truly dominant college players, so I don't think that's a good comparison. Right now, LM is more comparable to late lotto guys. I mean, if LM comes in and just kills it from day one, then obviously this conversation changes.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen

Post by Spaceman Spiff »

Beachcat97 wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:So what are you saying, SS? That he's not far from being a top 5 pick right now?
I see him as a challenger for it. It is a very strong draft class, so almost no one is a top five lock. Markannen is one of those guys who is lottery level and can move into that conversation.

Having areas to work on isn't odd. Ben Simmons went #1 and he is a decent, not great defender and cannot shoot the J. Jahlil Okafor, not a good defender. Name a top 5 pick and no one is a complete package. Lauri is a solid contender for a top five slot.
Simmons and Okafor were truly dominant college players, so I don't think that's a good comparison. Right now, LM is more comparable to late lotto guys. I mean, if LM comes in and just kills it from day one, then obviously this conversation changes.
So it's premature to project him faring very well in college despite having some areas of his game that are stronger than others, but when you project pro scouts cooling on him when he gets pushed around, that's not premature?

Maybe I just like his game more than you. Few freshmen are finished products. I really disagree with your take that he is getting regularly beat on D and outrebounded by smaller players. Lauri's D and rebounding are not at the level of his offense, but that doesn't mean they are a problem.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen

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Spaceman you gotta just let BC have his little worry sessions. It's not as if he knows . . . well, anything.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen

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Chicat wrote:Spaceman you gotta just let BC have his little worry sessions. It's not as if he knows . . . well, anything.
I mean, at this point, Lauri's stock has been skyrocketing because he's been dominating over the summer. That's the point to start worrying about how Lauri may get exposed?

Oh well. I'm serious in saying that I think that even though Lauri lacked the hype of AG or SJ, he may wind up being their equal as an impact freshman.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen

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Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Chicat wrote:Spaceman you gotta just let BC have his little worry sessions. It's not as if he knows . . . well, anything.
I mean, at this point, Lauri's stock has been skyrocketing because he's been dominating over the summer. That's the point to start worrying about how Lauri may get exposed?

Oh well. I'm serious in saying that I think that even though Lauri lacked the hype of AG or SJ, he may wind up being their equal as an impact freshman.
But a meteor could come hurtling out of the sky and obliterate life on earth as we know it, so I'm going to just assume that Lauri won't survive the extinction level event and he'll die having been scored on once in a highlight reel from some nameless euro competition.

- Beachcat (probably)
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Re: Lauri Markkanen

Post by Spaceman Spiff »

Chicat wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Chicat wrote:Spaceman you gotta just let BC have his little worry sessions. It's not as if he knows . . . well, anything.
I mean, at this point, Lauri's stock has been skyrocketing because he's been dominating over the summer. That's the point to start worrying about how Lauri may get exposed?

Oh well. I'm serious in saying that I think that even though Lauri lacked the hype of AG or SJ, he may wind up being their equal as an impact freshman.
But a meteor could come hurtling out of the sky and obliterate life on earth as we know it, so I'm going to just assume that Lauri won't survive the extinction level event and he'll die having been scored on once in a highlight reel from some nameless euro competition.

- Beachcat (probably)
He'll probably have difficulty dodging it due to his lack of mobility, right?
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Re: Lauri Markkanen

Post by EVCat »

Chicat wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Chicat wrote:Spaceman you gotta just let BC have his little worry sessions. It's not as if he knows . . . well, anything.
I mean, at this point, Lauri's stock has been skyrocketing because he's been dominating over the summer. That's the point to start worrying about how Lauri may get exposed?

Oh well. I'm serious in saying that I think that even though Lauri lacked the hype of AG or SJ, he may wind up being their equal as an impact freshman.
But a meteor could come hurtling out of the sky and obliterate life on earth as we know it, so I'm going to just assume that Lauri won't survive the extinction level event and he'll die having been scored on once in a highlight reel from some nameless euro competition.

- Beachcat (probably)
Or he could tear his ACL and die
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Re: Lauri Markkanen

Post by ASUHATER! »

EVCat wrote:
Chicat wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Chicat wrote:Spaceman you gotta just let BC have his little worry sessions. It's not as if he knows . . . well, anything.
I mean, at this point, Lauri's stock has been skyrocketing because he's been dominating over the summer. That's the point to start worrying about how Lauri may get exposed?

Oh well. I'm serious in saying that I think that even though Lauri lacked the hype of AG or SJ, he may wind up being their equal as an impact freshman.
But a meteor could come hurtling out of the sky and obliterate life on earth as we know it, so I'm going to just assume that Lauri won't survive the extinction level event and he'll die having been scored on once in a highlight reel from some nameless euro competition.

- Beachcat (probably)
Or he could tear his ACL and die
always a possibility with our luck as Arizona fans. especially multiple tears that legitimately jeopardize your career.
i was going to put the ua/asu records here...but i forgot what they were.

i'll just go with fuck asu.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen

Post by EVCat »

ASUHATER! wrote:
always a possibility with our luck as Arizona fans. especially multiple tears that legitimately jeopardize your career.
It's fine to just let it go and have it be this board's inside joke. You aren't going to win. The only way you win is by Ray Smith's career being declared over due to his 1st ACL tear on that knee, in total opposition of all known current medical expectation. Multiple tears only matters if they are the same knee. Otherwise, you get a brand new ACL, shiny and better than the one you were born with, each time in today's medical environment. And with proper training, you will likely gain range of motion and the surgeon is able to clean out all the other minor damage caused by years of hooping.

But this has been discussed before, right?
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Re: Lauri Markkanen

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Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Chicat wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Chicat wrote:Spaceman you gotta just let BC have his little worry sessions. It's not as if he knows . . . well, anything.
I mean, at this point, Lauri's stock has been skyrocketing because he's been dominating over the summer. That's the point to start worrying about how Lauri may get exposed?

Oh well. I'm serious in saying that I think that even though Lauri lacked the hype of AG or SJ, he may wind up being their equal as an impact freshman.
But a meteor could come hurtling out of the sky and obliterate life on earth as we know it, so I'm going to just assume that Lauri won't survive the extinction level event and he'll die having been scored on once in a highlight reel from some nameless euro competition.

- Beachcat (probably)
He'll probably have difficulty dodging it due to his lack of mobility, right?
A true Top 5 pick wouldn't let a little thing like the end of the world as we know it stop him from dominating.
Of the 12 coaches, Rush picked the one whose fans have the deepest passion, the longest memories, the greatest lung capacity and … did I mention deep passion?
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Re: Lauri Markkanen

Post by Spaceman Spiff »

Chicat wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Chicat wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Chicat wrote:Spaceman you gotta just let BC have his little worry sessions. It's not as if he knows . . . well, anything.
I mean, at this point, Lauri's stock has been skyrocketing because he's been dominating over the summer. That's the point to start worrying about how Lauri may get exposed?

Oh well. I'm serious in saying that I think that even though Lauri lacked the hype of AG or SJ, he may wind up being their equal as an impact freshman.
But a meteor could come hurtling out of the sky and obliterate life on earth as we know it, so I'm going to just assume that Lauri won't survive the extinction level event and he'll die having been scored on once in a highlight reel from some nameless euro competition.

- Beachcat (probably)
He'll probably have difficulty dodging it due to his lack of mobility, right?
A true Top 5 pick wouldn't let a little thing like the end of the world as we know it stop him from dominating.
Ben Simmons dodged meteors and both the NCAA and NIT tourney on his road to being a #1 pick.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen

Post by Chicat »

We need to bring rep back.
Of the 12 coaches, Rush picked the one whose fans have the deepest passion, the longest memories, the greatest lung capacity and … did I mention deep passion?
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Re: Lauri Markkanen

Post by dirtbags »

Chicat wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:Dude looks pretty jacked.
He's been playing alongside and against grown men for a while now. That'll inspire you to hit the gym.
damn, and that photo up above is before lo-mark gets the chris rounds treatment, no? :shock:

i saw that chance has added some mass over the summer also. good.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen

Post by Chicat »

dirtbags wrote:
Chicat wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:Dude looks pretty jacked.
He's been playing alongside and against grown men for a while now. That'll inspire you to hit the gym.
damn, and that photo up above is before lo-mark gets the chris rounds treatment, no? :shock:

i saw that chance has added some mass over the summer also. good.
I think Rounds gives them a workout plan over the summer so that when they get to school they can hit the ground running. Rawle mentioned that as well.
Of the 12 coaches, Rush picked the one whose fans have the deepest passion, the longest memories, the greatest lung capacity and … did I mention deep passion?
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Re: Lauri Markkanen

Post by Main Event »

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Re: Lauri Markkanen

Post by gumby »

Aaron Gordon and Stanley Johnson Era, "when you were getting pretty good players ..."

Pump the brakes, fellas.
Right where I want to be.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen

Post by Frybry02 »

gumby wrote:Aaron Gordon and Stanley Johnson Era, "when you were getting pretty good players ..."

Pump the brakes, fellas.
:roll:
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Re: Lauri Markkanen

Post by Olsondogg »

I tapped out after that.
I fly like a hawk, or better yet an eagle--a seagull. I sniff suckers out like a beagle...My ego is off and running and gone, Cause I'm about the best and if you diss than that's wrong
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Re: Lauri Markkanen

Post by The Butcher »

Main Event wrote:
Good God. He's Niwotski with an inside game. A power inside game. Dude is yoked.

This is going to be exciting.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen

Post by rgdeuce »

I think BC is underestimating the value of an agile 7 footer who shoots like a 2 guard and has an advanced offensive skill set for his size and age. Dirk Nowitzki was a trash defender early in his career and was not known as a great rebounder either for a lot of his career, but if a team knew a for-sure Dirk was in a draft, in how many drafts over the last 20 years would they not use the #1 pick on him? You are only passing that up for a Shaq or Lebron type prospect. Not saying he is a going to be Dirk, but you take any 25 ppg player you can get and worry about compensating for his weakness with the other four guys on the floor. This kid looks like he has a chance to be that type of offensive player in the NBA with time and the league has transcended into a game that places huge value on stretch 4s.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen

Post by Spaceman Spiff »

rgdeuce wrote:I think BC is underestimating the value of an agile 7 footer who shoots like a 2 guard and has an advanced offensive skill set for his size and age. Dirk Nowitzki was a trash defender early in his career and was not known as a great rebounder either for a lot of his career, but if a team knew a for-sure Dirk was in a draft, in how many drafts over the last 20 years would they not use the #1 pick on him? You are only passing that up for a Shaq or Lebron type prospect. Not saying he is a going to be Dirk, but you take any 25 ppg player you can get and worry about compensating for his weakness with the other four guys on the floor. This kid looks like he has a chance to be that type of offensive player in the NBA with time and the league has transcended into a game that places huge value on stretch 4s.
This would be my best comparison: Andrea Bargnani.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/And ... gnani-154/" target="_blank

Scroll to the bottom for the analysis pre-draft, and tell me the defensive reviews don't remind you of what people say about Lauri.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen

Post by Beachcat97 »

rgdeuce wrote:I think BC is underestimating the value of an agile 7 footer who shoots like a 2 guard and has an advanced offensive skill set for his size and age. Dirk Nowitzki was a trash defender early in his career and was not known as a great rebounder either for a lot of his career, but if a team knew a for-sure Dirk was in a draft, in how many drafts over the last 20 years would they not use the #1 pick on him? You are only passing that up for a Shaq or Lebron type prospect. Not saying he is a going to be Dirk, but you take any 25 ppg player you can get and worry about compensating for his weakness with the other four guys on the floor. This kid looks like he has a chance to be that type of offensive player in the NBA with time and the league has transcended into a game that places huge value on stretch 4s.
Okay. But isn't the question really what kind of player he can be for Arizona this year? Who knows what kind of player LM will mature into? NBA All-Star? Total bust? Euro players with his skill set have been dicey. That's not a knock on LM; it's just what we've seen over the last several years.

How will he impact this year's team? Can he be a dominant Pac 12 player in his one season in college?
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Re: Lauri Markkanen

Post by Spaceman Spiff »

Beachcat97 wrote:
rgdeuce wrote:I think BC is underestimating the value of an agile 7 footer who shoots like a 2 guard and has an advanced offensive skill set for his size and age. Dirk Nowitzki was a trash defender early in his career and was not known as a great rebounder either for a lot of his career, but if a team knew a for-sure Dirk was in a draft, in how many drafts over the last 20 years would they not use the #1 pick on him? You are only passing that up for a Shaq or Lebron type prospect. Not saying he is a going to be Dirk, but you take any 25 ppg player you can get and worry about compensating for his weakness with the other four guys on the floor. This kid looks like he has a chance to be that type of offensive player in the NBA with time and the league has transcended into a game that places huge value on stretch 4s.
Okay. But isn't the question really what kind of player he can be for Arizona this year? Who knows what kind of player LM will mature into? NBA All-Star? Total bust? Euro players with his skill set have been dicey. That's not a knock on LM; it's just what we've seen over the last several years.

How will he impact this year's team? Can he be a dominant Pac 12 player in his one season in college?
Yes.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen

Post by threenumberones »

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:
rgdeuce wrote:I think BC is underestimating the value of an agile 7 footer who shoots like a 2 guard and has an advanced offensive skill set for his size and age. Dirk Nowitzki was a trash defender early in his career and was not known as a great rebounder either for a lot of his career, but if a team knew a for-sure Dirk was in a draft, in how many drafts over the last 20 years would they not use the #1 pick on him? You are only passing that up for a Shaq or Lebron type prospect. Not saying he is a going to be Dirk, but you take any 25 ppg player you can get and worry about compensating for his weakness with the other four guys on the floor. This kid looks like he has a chance to be that type of offensive player in the NBA with time and the league has transcended into a game that places huge value on stretch 4s.
Okay. But isn't the question really what kind of player he can be for Arizona this year? Who knows what kind of player LM will mature into? NBA All-Star? Total bust? Euro players with his skill set have been dicey. That's not a knock on LM; it's just what we've seen over the last several years.

How will he impact this year's team? Can he be a dominant Pac 12 player in his one season in college?
Yes.
And let's be clear - if he doesn't perform he won't be drafted in the first round. The draft is stacked and it's not like he's a physical specimen with all the intangibles. He's very much auditioning for his spot.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen

Post by Spaceman Spiff »

threenumberones wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:
rgdeuce wrote:I think BC is underestimating the value of an agile 7 footer who shoots like a 2 guard and has an advanced offensive skill set for his size and age. Dirk Nowitzki was a trash defender early in his career and was not known as a great rebounder either for a lot of his career, but if a team knew a for-sure Dirk was in a draft, in how many drafts over the last 20 years would they not use the #1 pick on him? You are only passing that up for a Shaq or Lebron type prospect. Not saying he is a going to be Dirk, but you take any 25 ppg player you can get and worry about compensating for his weakness with the other four guys on the floor. This kid looks like he has a chance to be that type of offensive player in the NBA with time and the league has transcended into a game that places huge value on stretch 4s.
Okay. But isn't the question really what kind of player he can be for Arizona this year? Who knows what kind of player LM will mature into? NBA All-Star? Total bust? Euro players with his skill set have been dicey. That's not a knock on LM; it's just what we've seen over the last several years.

How will he impact this year's team? Can he be a dominant Pac 12 player in his one season in college?
Yes.
And let's be clear - if he doesn't perform he won't be drafted in the first round. The draft is stacked and it's not like he's a physical specimen with all the intangibles. He's very much auditioning for his spot.
I do and don't agree. You're dead on about it being a loaded class.

Lauri is a first rounder unless he absolutely Cheick Diallo's it this season. He's an agile 7 footer with a great skillset. He has built a great rep overseas, and unless he's a disaster this year, he'll be fine as a first rounder. There aren't many people on earth his size with that skillset. The question is more whether his performance will move him up or down.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen

Post by baycat93 »

threenumberones wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:
rgdeuce wrote:I think BC is underestimating the value of an agile 7 footer who shoots like a 2 guard and has an advanced offensive skill set for his size and age. Dirk Nowitzki was a trash defender early in his career and was not known as a great rebounder either for a lot of his career, but if a team knew a for-sure Dirk was in a draft, in how many drafts over the last 20 years would they not use the #1 pick on him? You are only passing that up for a Shaq or Lebron type prospect. Not saying he is a going to be Dirk, but you take any 25 ppg player you can get and worry about compensating for his weakness with the other four guys on the floor. This kid looks like he has a chance to be that type of offensive player in the NBA with time and the league has transcended into a game that places huge value on stretch 4s.
Okay. But isn't the question really what kind of player he can be for Arizona this year? Who knows what kind of player LM will mature into? NBA All-Star? Total bust? Euro players with his skill set have been dicey. That's not a knock on LM; it's just what we've seen over the last several years.

How will he impact this year's team? Can he be a dominant Pac 12 player in his one season in college?
Yes.
And let's be clear - if he doesn't perform he won't be drafted in the first round. The draft is stacked and it's not like he's a physical specimen with all the intangibles. He's very much auditioning for his spot.
I disagree with the finality of your statement. Unless you have evidence of his limitations, there is certainly some that would say he could be a physical specimen. Hard to know whether he does or does not have the intangibles. I would argue his decision to choose the american college route to the NBA would lend some credence to a good mindset. Prove his skills in the American basketball system and education.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen

Post by rgdeuce »

Spaceman Spiff wrote: This would be my best comparison: Andrea Bargnani.
That's a really good comp. And a number 1 pick himself. I didn't want to go overboard with the Dirk reference but it paints a picture on how tall/shooting/stretch offense is so big and makes everything else forgivable.
Beachcat97 wrote: Okay. But isn't the question really what kind of player he can be for Arizona this year? Who knows what kind of player LM will mature into? NBA All-Star? Total bust? Euro players with his skill set have been dicey. That's not a knock on LM; it's just what we've seen over the last several years.
How will he impact this year's team? Can he be a dominant Pac 12 player in his one season in college?
Put it this way, I'm sure many here would not be surprised if he was all Pac-12 first team. I'm sure many here would also EXPECT him to be that if he wasn't on a team with this much talent. His offense will take a hit when you got Alkins, Simmons, Trier, Dusan, Smith, etc. who will be taking shots too, but the kid is going to have several monster nights, believe that.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen

Post by Beachcat97 »

baycat93 wrote: I would argue his decision to choose the american college route to the NBA would lend some credence to a good mindset. Prove his skills in the American basketball system and education.
Absolutely. Guys who can dominate the college game as freshmen set themselves apart from others entering the draft. Think this has been true for a while.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen

Post by rgdeuce »

baycat93 wrote:
I disagree with the finality of your statement. Unless you have evidence of his limitations, there is certainly some that would say he could be a physical specimen. Hard to know whether he does or does not have the intangibles. I would argue his decision to choose the american college route to the NBA would lend some credence to a good mindset. Prove his skills in the American basketball system and education.
Im with Spliff. He is really going to have to F up this year to not be a first rounder in the 2017 draft. I mean shoot like dog crap, his weaknesses are going to have to become glaring to the highest level and perhaps throw in some work ethic/attitude issues. If he can shoot and isnt a headache, there are plenty of teams in the 20s who will use that pick for a worst case scenario, 7 footer off the bench who can shoot the 3 and stretch the floor. You tell me a team like the Spurs are gonna pass that up if it is available? Tall shooting on the cheap that will save you in cap space, plenty of playoff teams are going to jump all over that. He came to Arizona to move up in the first round.. And from what I can tell, considering the NCAA 3 is closer than the FIBA 3, it would be shocking if he isn't shooting above 45% plus from behind the arc.
Beachcat97 wrote:
Absolutely. Guys who can dominate the college game as freshmen set themselves apart from others entering the draft. Think this has been true for a while.
Pump your breaks there. There are plenty of guys who dominated at the college level who get passed up by the NBA, or don't get taken in the first round. Men dominating boys in college does not necessarily translate into men dominating men in the NBA. That does happen with some players, but the rest are in the league because they do one or two things really good and/or have a few plus physical/athletic attributes that are in demand.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen

Post by Beachcat97 »

rgdeuce wrote:Pump your breaks there. There are plenty of guys who dominated at the college level who get passed up by the NBA, or don't get taken in the first round. Men dominating boys in college does not necessarily translate into men dominating men in the NBA. That does happen with some players, but the rest are in the league because they do one or two things really good and/or have a few plus physical/athletic attributes that are in demand.
Notice that I said dominated "as freshmen." That's the key. Dominant freshmen (A Davis, J Wall, J Okafor, T Jones, J Parker, D Rose, K Love, A Gordon, S Johnson, and so on) carry a certain mystique. They were able to dominate at a very high level of competition (D-1 hoops) as 18 year olds, which often augurs big things at the next level. This is why the NBA Draft is a futures market, so to speak. Ben Simmons is going to get the NBA scouts more excited than Kris Dunn, even though there have been plenty of college juniors and seniors who went on to have great careers.
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Re: Lauri Markkanen

Post by Chicat »

The scouts are going to be so confused. Is Lauri an international prospect or American college player? Bump him up 6 spots if they treat him like the former....
Of the 12 coaches, Rush picked the one whose fans have the deepest passion, the longest memories, the greatest lung capacity and … did I mention deep passion?
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