Bear Down Wildcats

Too bad Sean didn't bring in PJCs dad at halftime. Could've used his energy maybe?

Mustafa Shakur has been taken down off my "most disappointing UA PG of all-time" mantle. PJC, it's all yours.

most disappointing AZ PG's last 30 years

1) Josiah Turner
2) Travis Wilson
3) Parker Jackson-Cartwright

97cats wrote:most disappointing AZ PG's last 30 years

1) Josiah Turner
2) Travis Wilson
3) Parker Jackson-Cartwright

Was Wilson even a PG? I just remember from that huge recruiting class I was most sad/upset that Ruben Douglas left Arizona.

97cats wrote:most disappointing AZ PG's last 30 years

1) Josiah Turner
2) Travis Wilson
3) Parker Jackson-Cartwright

You know I respect your opinion, but I have a slight disagreement here. I'm not sure I'd class PJC as disappointing. Over time, it just became apparent he had limitations he wasn't going to break through. Most of those limitations (size) really weren't his fault.

What was disappointing about PJC was more in relationship to his role. If his senior year was filling a Keanu Pinder type role, he would be regarded just fine. PJC gets dinged because he wound up in a role that was too big for him. I'm just not sure that makes him disappointing to much as it means his tenure here was marked with disappointment because he was recruited for a role he couldn't fill.

I'd also put Jahvon Quinerly in the top three disappointing Arizona PG list for reasons that have little to do with basketball.

I lay awake at night wondering why we didn't recruit a better point guard two years ago.

PJC would've been a nice change of pace off the bench. Maybe provide a little spark with ball pressure. He was never built to go 25+ minutes a game.

zonagrad wrote:I lay awake at night wondering why we didn't recruit a better point guard two years ago.

PJC would've been a nice change of pace off the bench. Maybe provide a little spark with ball pressure. He was never built to go 25+ minutes a game.

He was fine in reserve of TJ. If he'd been in that role for 4 years, we'd like the guy a lot.

Reading his ESPN report out of high school, he was the 11th rated PG in the nation, and expected to be another Jason Gardner.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

97cats wrote:most disappointing AZ PG's last 30 years

1) Josiah Turner
2) Travis Wilson
3) Parker Jackson-Cartwright

You know I respect your opinion, but I have a slight disagreement here. I'm not sure I'd class PJC as disappointing. Over time, it just became apparent he had limitations he wasn't going to break through. Most of those limitations (size) really weren't his fault.

What was disappointing about PJC was more in relationship to his role. If his senior year was filling a Keanu Pinder type role, he would be regarded just fine. PJC gets dinged because he wound up in a role that was too big for him. I'm just not sure that makes him disappointing to much as it means his tenure here was marked with disappointment because he was recruited for a role he couldn't fill.

I'd also put Jahvon Quinerly in the top three disappointing Arizona PG list for reasons that have little to do with basketball.

I see your point until PJC gave his comments about being down 15 when it was really only 2 at half. All the good will I build for PJC vanished in a second the moment I read that. Weak minded player is not what we need from the PG.

Merkin wrote:Reading his ESPN report out of high school, he was the 11th rated PG in the nation, and expected to be another Jason Gardner.

But it became clear he was a bust, or at the very least, not a PG at that level. Players get recruited over all the time, so it is a bit baffling that Miller did not recruit over PJC once it became clear he was not suitable for running a major division I program.

midnightx wrote:

Merkin wrote:Reading his ESPN report out of high school, he was the 11th rated PG in the nation, and expected to be another Jason Gardner.

But it became clear he was a bust, or at the very least, not a PG at that level. Players get recruited over all the time, so it is a bit baffling that Miller did not recruit over PJC once it became clear he was not suitable for running a major division I program.

And it's not like Miller hasn't done that before. Jordin Mayes was the backup PG all 4 years (behind 4 different guys!)

PJC wasn't that disappointing but just very physically limited. IMO, it would be more disappointing if he had greater ability and didn't play to it. As others have said, the most disappointing thing was that Miller didn't recruit someone better to be the starter.

DrWildcat wrote:PJC wasn't that disappointing but just very physically limited. IMO, it would be more disappointing if he had greater ability and didn't play to it. As others have said, the most disappointing thing was that Miller didn't recruit someone better to be the starter.

That's a mystery I want explained.

97 explained it last off-season. Had to do with the promises Miller supposedly honored when PJC was brought on board. From my understanding, PJC had an entourage that threatened his commitment to Arizona if he was ever recruited over/against.

Hence the dropping of Derryck Thornton, Jr. Would also partially explain losing Tyler Dorsey, and maybe even Justin Simon.

Highly-ranked recruits in CBB anymore come with promises of PT. Calipari doesn't really attempt to hide this.

But the fact that other programs, like Duke, appear to be building entire systems around these guys--in effect, creating "sacred cows" and building class hierarchies over the Kyle Singlers and Grayson Allens of recruiting classes--is absolutely stinking up the game.

And the emerging reality that conference commissioners are either supporting it, turning a blind eye to it or--in the case of the dubious Larry Scott--employing, in less-than-competent ways, means to cut off the nose of his conference to spite its face, means the corruption of college basketball may run too deep for the sport to be reformed clean.

Arizona doesn't exist to market NBA-ready talent. Arizona is at its best when it develops potential NBA talent into that dream. Miller needs to return to that.

ChooChooCat wrote:
Was Wilson even a PG? I just remember from that huge recruiting class I was most sad/upset that Ruben Douglas left Arizona.

sorry for the delayed response, it was a bad joke including Wilson as he never really did much of anything, and he was a combo guard as well -- it was my attempt at being funny and clearly i missed by a mile.

this entire PG situation was deeply concerning for the last three years, it saddens me that so much opportunity was entrusted to such incapable out of position players.

Miller knew what he had after TJ left, both good and bad up and down the roster (incoming and returning players) and instead fixing the issue and hedging against the obvious problem he tried duct tape and band-aids to stop the bleeding, giving the keys a JUCO shooting guard to play PG ahead of essentially what was a mid-major backup who was way in over his head from the first day he stepped foot on the Arizona campus.

its depressing for me to look back and say my observation was correct, to see what was so obvious to me from the first game of Cartwright's career at AZ, and see that materialize and hold true to the last game of his senior year.

but moreso, its very disheartening for the other players, who were recruited with the feeling and under the pretense that they would have the support around them to make legitimate run(s) at a Final Four.

when there are gaps you fill the gaps and continue to make adjustments, as the leader and CEO you dont bury your head in the sand and hope things will turn out for the best.

as my partners say, "hope is not an effective business plan" and that certainly rang true here for three straight years...the issues were the issues, the problems were the problems, and the results were the results -- its ignoring those issues and the potential pitfalls and/or not fixing said issues that is maddening, thats 100% ALL on Miller.

back to the drawing board for AZ, but no question Miller has lost a ton of cache on and off the floor.

the truly tragic part is so much of this coulda been prevented if he woulda managed the issue instead of ignoring it - he has made his bed unfortunately and needs to coach and recruit his ass out of it.

with the FBI scandal on his back and growing decention among the AZ fans Miller sure is making things difficult on himself, but maybe he likes it better that way, i dont know.

ego can be a powerful and dangerous thing.

PJC was a heavy UCLA lean at the time, right? Parents went there? Think that was part of the push, needed to beat UCLA on that recruit to make a statement. Then needed to save face by playing/keeping him. Hey, not like Trier who wants to be a PG stepped up big time. Just whiffed.

I feel like we (people on the message boards) are a bit extreme (duh!). The majority of people I know don't want Miller gone. He had had a disappointing run but this sport has peaks and valleys. I'm willing to see what he can do for another run and then go from there.

Dosia wrote:I feel like we (people on the message boards) are a bit extreme (duh!). The majority of people I know don't want Miller gone. He had had a disappointing run but this sport has peaks and valleys. I'm willing to see what he can do for another run and then go from there.

It changes fast. 2-3 years ago, our biggest concern was the UNC job opening up and trying to lock him into a lifetime contract. We need to step back and look at the entire body of work, especially what he walked into. We are lucky to have him.

Bosy Billups wrote:
It changes fast. 2-3 years ago, our biggest concern was the UNC job opening up and trying to lock him into a lifetime contract. We need to step back and look at the entire body of work, especially what he walked into. We are lucky to have him.

not for me, the biggest concern at AZ 2-3 years ago was the PG and/or lack thereof and the potential negative impact that could have on otherwise loaded Arizona teams...Sean Miller winning and leaving for UNC would be something i would trade with today every single time.

97cats wrote:

Bosy Billups wrote:
It changes fast. 2-3 years ago, our biggest concern was the UNC job opening up and trying to lock him into a lifetime contract. We need to step back and look at the entire body of work, especially what he walked into. We are lucky to have him.

not for me, the biggest concern at AZ 2-3 years ago was the PG and/or lack thereof and the potential negative impact that could have on otherwise loaded Arizona teams...Sean Miller winning and leaving for UNC would be something i would trade with today every single time.

Was Kobi Simmons known to be one and done? Because he has done pretty well in limited minutes in the league. But, maybe Miller banked on him being the PG this year... if that is the case, we would be playing for a chip, possibly undefeated today.

Plus, Book had a bigger impact than we might of thought, for team moral, good cop/bad cop. That threw Miller off this year no doubt.

97cats wrote:

Bosy Billups wrote:
It changes fast. 2-3 years ago, our biggest concern was the UNC job opening up and trying to lock him into a lifetime contract. We need to step back and look at the entire body of work, especially what he walked into. We are lucky to have him.

not for me, the biggest concern at AZ 2-3 years ago was the PG and/or lack thereof and the potential negative impact that could have on otherwise loaded Arizona teams...Sean Miller winning and leaving for UNC would be something i would trade with today every single time.

Every fucking time I would make that trade.

97cats wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:
Was Wilson even a PG? I just remember from that huge recruiting class I was most sad/upset that Ruben Douglas left Arizona.

sorry for the delayed response, it was a bad joke including Wilson as he never really did much of anything, and he was a combo guard as well -- it was my attempt at being funny and clearly i missed by a mile.

this entire PG situation was deeply concerning for the last three years, it saddens me that so much opportunity was entrusted to such incapable out of position players.

Miller knew what he had after TJ left, both good and bad up and down the roster (incoming and returning players) and instead fixing the issue and hedging against the obvious problem he tried duct tape and band-aids to stop the bleeding, giving the keys a JUCO shooting guard to play PG ahead of essentially what was a mid-major backup who was way in over his head from the first day he stepped foot on the Arizona campus.

its depressing for me to look back and say my observation was correct, to see what was so obvious to me from the first game of Cartwright's career at AZ, and see that materialize and hold true to the last game of his senior year.

but moreso, its very disheartening for the other players, who were recruited with the feeling and under the pretense that they would have the support around them to make legitimate run(s) at a Final Four.

when there are gaps you fill the gaps and continue to make adjustments, as the leader and CEO you dont bury your head in the sand and hope things will turn out for the best.

as my partners say, "hope is not an effective business plan" and that certainly rang true here for three straight years...the issues were the issues, the problems were the problems, and the results were the results -- its ignoring those issues and the potential pitfalls and/or not fixing said issues that is maddening, thats 100% ALL on Miller.

back to the drawing board for AZ, but no question Miller has lost a ton of cache on and off the floor.

the truly tragic part is so much of this coulda been prevented if he woulda managed the issue instead of ignoring it - he has made his bed unfortunately and needs to coach and recruit his ass out of it.

with the FBI scandal on his back and growing decention among the AZ fans Miller sure is making things difficult on himself, but maybe he likes it better that way, i dont know.

ego can be a powerful and dangerous thing.

97, in your opinion, can Miller recruit his ass out of it at this point? I tend to say no given everything going on but very curious your take on it

97cats wrote:

Bosy Billups wrote:
It changes fast. 2-3 years ago, our biggest concern was the UNC job opening up and trying to lock him into a lifetime contract. We need to step back and look at the entire body of work, especially what he walked into. We are lucky to have him.

not for me, the biggest concern at AZ 2-3 years ago was the PG and/or lack thereof and the potential negative impact that could have on otherwise loaded Arizona teams...Sean Miller winning and leaving for UNC would be something i would trade with today every single time.

You know I had never thought of it this way and asll I can say is, you are spot on as usual.

I do hope Miller gets a shot at redemption because I love the journey. 2011 was so much fun

Bosy Billups wrote:

97cats wrote:

Bosy Billups wrote:
It changes fast. 2-3 years ago, our biggest concern was the UNC job opening up and trying to lock him into a lifetime contract. We need to step back and look at the entire body of work, especially what he walked into. We are lucky to have him.

not for me, the biggest concern at AZ 2-3 years ago was the PG and/or lack thereof and the potential negative impact that could have on otherwise loaded Arizona teams...Sean Miller winning and leaving for UNC would be something i would trade with today every single time.

Was Kobi Simmons known to be one and done? Because he has done pretty well in limited minutes in the league. But, maybe Miller banked on him being the PG this year... if that is the case, we would be playing for a chip, possibly undefeated today.

Plus, Book had a bigger impact than we might of thought, for team moral, good cop/bad cop. That threw Miller off this year no doubt.

People keep saying that Miller’s mistake was trusting Book. But what’s not clear to me is what our recruiting and chemistry would have looked like without him. I.e. could Miller afford to knock him out and keep the train rolling?

legallykenny wrote:

Bosy Billups wrote:

97cats wrote:

Bosy Billups wrote:
It changes fast. 2-3 years ago, our biggest concern was the UNC job opening up and trying to lock him into a lifetime contract. We need to step back and look at the entire body of work, especially what he walked into. We are lucky to have him.

not for me, the biggest concern at AZ 2-3 years ago was the PG and/or lack thereof and the potential negative impact that could have on otherwise loaded Arizona teams...Sean Miller winning and leaving for UNC would be something i would trade with today every single time.

Was Kobi Simmons known to be one and done? Because he has done pretty well in limited minutes in the league. But, maybe Miller banked on him being the PG this year... if that is the case, we would be playing for a chip, possibly undefeated today.

Plus, Book had a bigger impact than we might of thought, for team moral, good cop/bad cop. That threw Miller off this year no doubt.

People keep saying that Miller’s mistake was trusting Book. But what’s not clear to me is what our recruiting and chemistry would have looked like without him. I.e. could Miller afford to knock him out and keep the train rolling?

He was likely the "bag man" that every single program has, including Harvard

Kobi considered himself a PG



I have seen PJC on campus twice in the last month.
He has been on crutches with a walking boot.
I'm wondering if he got hurt during pac 12 tourney.
Seemed like his level of play was pretty good during P12 games and then disappeared during ncaa

In fairness to Kobi, the Memphis Grizzlies agree with him.

Parker Jackson-Cartwright will go down as one of the worst starting players at Arizona in the modern era -- that includes the few transition years between Lute Olson and Sean Miller where the talent and depth was thin.

Kobi Simmons never wanted to be at AZ, his issue was in that space, not because he lacked talent or ability.

Newportcat wrote:

97cats wrote:

Bosy Billups wrote:
It changes fast. 2-3 years ago, our biggest concern was the UNC job opening up and trying to lock him into a lifetime contract. We need to step back and look at the entire body of work, especially what he walked into. We are lucky to have him.

not for me, the biggest concern at AZ 2-3 years ago was the PG and/or lack thereof and the potential negative impact that could have on otherwise loaded Arizona teams...Sean Miller winning and leaving for UNC would be something i would trade with today every single time.

Every fucking time I would make that trade.

I agree with all of this.

97cats wrote:Parker Jackson-Cartwright will go down as one of the worst starting players at Arizona in the modern era -- that includes the few transition years between Lute Olson and Sean Miller where the talent and depth was thin.

Kobi Simmons never wanted to be at AZ, his issue was in that space, not because he lacked talent or ability.

Did Kobi want to be in college at all?

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

97cats wrote:Parker Jackson-Cartwright will go down as one of the worst starting players at Arizona in the modern era -- that includes the few transition years between Lute Olson and Sean Miller where the talent and depth was thin.

Kobi Simmons never wanted to be at AZ, his issue was in that space, not because he lacked talent or ability.

Did Kobi want to be in college at all?

How many of the annual Top 50 recruits really WANT to go to college? Maybe a third?

Pop McKale wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

97cats wrote:Parker Jackson-Cartwright will go down as one of the worst starting players at Arizona in the modern era -- that includes the few transition years between Lute Olson and Sean Miller where the talent and depth was thin.

Kobi Simmons never wanted to be at AZ, his issue was in that space, not because he lacked talent or ability.

Did Kobi want to be in college at all?

How many of the annual Top 50 recruits really WANT to go to college? Maybe a third?

Probably not a ton. I'd think there are some in the middle who may see college as a useful developmental tool, but don't necessarily care about college as more than an NBA preparatory academy.

97
You really can't stand PJC.
It seems personal.

Of course, I feel the same about The Shoe Dribbler.

Postmaster wrote:97
You really can't stand PJC.
It seems personal.

this is something ive addressed probably over 500 times in the last three years.

this is not personal, i dont know Cartwright and im sure if i did i would think he was a nice fella.

he deserves credit for being a good student, better citizen, and loyal ambassador of the program - ive said that many, many, many, many, many, many, times.

when i watch any sport above the high school level i call it like i see it, no rose colored glasses in either direction, neither good or bad.

Cartwright is a god awful basketball player who is weak minded on the floor and grossly limited physically and mentally. he has no business playing at a high division I school let alone averaging 30+ mpg at Arizona - this was painfully obvious to me from the second he saw his first action as a freshman till the final bitch-slap he got from #13 seed Buffalo.

thats not personal, its just how i see him as a basketball player. critique is apart of the culture at this level, this isnt AYSO and everyone doesnt get a trophy or ribbon.

stop making it something its not with me and stop making it something its not with you trying to convince yourself he was good in conf and got hurt.

he sucks. he proved he sucked. the results showed he sucked. and he was manhandled by mid major players three years running in the NCAA. face it, Cartwright sucked at Arizona.

now, is he pleasant to have a cheeseburger with or have as a pal on a double date??? i have no idea, but my bet is he's probably a really swell guy and very likable.

however, that has nothing to do with the fact that he sucked as a basketball player, your failure to see or acknowledge that makes me think your viewpoint is slanted and with bias -- maybe you are the one that has difficulty separating personal opinion with raw fact.

just something to think about.

Amen. After the loss last month I went back to 1988 looking at PG stats for Arizona players. You guessed it, none worse.

Now close this topic down...

I’ll choose to remember PJC for the PAC-12 semifinal win over UCLA, and the heart he showed in that game saving steal.

PJC is the Fredo of this program.

catgrad97 wrote:PJC is the Fredo of this program.

And this thread has been killing him since 2014.

He'll always be Jackson Parker-Cartwright to me.

Signed,
Bill Walton

important to note that Cartwright got his degree yesterday

this is wonderful to see from a kid who was an excellent student and loyal ambassador of the program.

he deserves major props for being a real student athlete in a day an age where its becoming less common - especially in college basketball

he represented himself, the university, and his family with class all the way thru the entire process not only excelling in the classroom but also as an exemplary citizen and a model person off the floor.

way to go , Parker.

97cats wrote:important to note that Cartwright got his degree yesterday

this is wonderful to see from a kid who was an excellent student and loyal ambassador of the program.

he deserves major props for being a real student athlete in a day an age where its becoming less common - especially in college basketball

he represented himself, the university, and his family with class all the way thru the entire process not only excelling in the classroom but also as an exemplary citizen and a model person off the floor.

way to go , Parker.

This is great news. Thanks for making note of this, 97. Congrats, Parker!

97cats wrote:important to note that Cartwright got his degree yesterday

this is wonderful to see from a kid who was an excellent student and loyal ambassador of the program.

he deserves major props for being a real student athlete in a day an age where its becoming less common - especially in college basketball

he represented himself, the university, and his family with class all the way thru the entire process not only excelling in the classroom but also as an exemplary citizen and a model person off the floor.

way to go , Parker.

Happy to hear he graduated and more happy he won't be returning. It's unfortunate his reputation as a player took such a hit in his last game as a Wildcat. I was so disappointed in how he essentially gave up on himself and his team in the blowout loss to Buffalo. Just completely unacceptable. I wish the young man well in everything he does nonetheless.

97cats wrote:important to note that Cartwright got his degree yesterday

this is wonderful to see from a kid who was an excellent student and loyal ambassador of the program.

he deserves major props for being a real student athlete in a day an age where its becoming less common - especially in college basketball

he represented himself, the university, and his family with class all the way thru the entire process not only excelling in the classroom but also as an exemplary citizen and a model person off the floor.

way to go , Parker.

Great note

Did he wind up breaking something in his foot during the tourney? Saw him in a boot

97cats wrote:important to note that Cartwright got his degree yesterday

this is wonderful to see from a kid who was an excellent student and loyal ambassador of the program.

he deserves major props for being a real student athlete in a day an age where its becoming less common - especially in college basketball

he represented himself, the university, and his family with class all the way thru the entire process not only excelling in the classroom but also as an exemplary citizen and a model person off the floor.

way to go , Parker.

I was critical, not really of PJC, but of the role he was ill suited for here. He was a solid player who wasn't cut out for his role, but always seemed like a good kid who was the type of person Arizona can be proud of. Good on him for graduating, and I hope he sees nothing but success from here on.

Captain Obvious wrote: Happy to hear he graduated and more happy he won't be returning. It's unfortunate his reputation as a player took such a hit in his last game as a Wildcat. I was so disappointed in how he essentially gave up on himself and his team in the blowout loss to Buffalo. Just completely unacceptable. I wish the young man well in everything he does nonetheless.

I am trying to forget him saying he gave up at halftime, but he will always have my appreciation for being put in a role he was rarely ever good enough for.

Merkin wrote:

Captain Obvious wrote: Happy to hear he graduated and more happy he won't be returning. It's unfortunate his reputation as a player took such a hit in his last game as a Wildcat. I was so disappointed in how he essentially gave up on himself and his team in the blowout loss to Buffalo. Just completely unacceptable. I wish the young man well in everything he does nonetheless.

I am trying to forget him saying he gave up at halftime, but he will always have my appreciation for being put in a role he was rarely ever good enough for.

Also, without him, I don’t think we win the P12 Tourney...in that game vs UCLA he was awesome! Bear Down PJC and good luck in all your future endeavors.

Sad news for the PJC family.

And now you know why Miller refused to recruit over PJC.