Bear Down Wildcats

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

RiseAndFire wrote:Kobi was the man the only time we beat UCLA, it appears he'll be riding the bench tonight

I feel bad for him - his NBA aspirations are taking a hit.

I don't really feel bad for Kobi.

I compare Kobi and Rawle. When Trier returned, the wing spots got really competitive. Rawle began killing it on the boards and not just relying on offense. Kobi kept playing like he had been playing.

That's why Rawle still gets a lot of time and Kobi has fallen off. Rawle seized the competition and Kobi didn't. Kobi has potential, but to break through, it is on him to raise his game.

100% agree with this.

CalStateTempe wrote:Momo was a cat to the core.

Reminded me of the Will Bynum situation. Both left UA in good standing, with no hard feelings on either side. Momo got to play the 2G also at Iona, playing alongside the PG with the highest assists in the nation his first year.

Turner and Judkins were both cancers to the program and Miller made them leave.

Chol also had offers from UNC and KU, so it wasn't just Miller who missed on him.

Merkin wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:Momo was a cat to the core.

Reminded me of the Will Bynum situation. Both left UA in good standing, with no hard feelings on either side. Momo got to play the 2G also at Iona, playing alongside the PG with the highest assists in the nation his first year.

Turner and Judkins were both cancers to the program and Miller made them leave.

Chol also had offers from UNC and KU, so it wasn't just Miller who missed on him.

I always rooted for Momo at Iona.

Chol was a physical specimen. He seemed like a decent kid, but he just did not develop as a basketball player. You could see why he was highly recruited the second you laid eyes on him. Then you watched him try to figure out how to hedge and recover, and he looked lost. He had a ton of potential, but the mental side of the game seemed a mystery to him.

To me, Chol = Fendi

Their overall physical package screamed "star", but they seemed lost trying to figure out basic fundamental concepts.

looking at Wikipedia rosters for Arizona teams...

they reference the players "ESPN Grade" on a 100 point scale...gonna point out some painful names along side people discussed in this thread.

How did Judkins happen?

Kyle Fogg - 85
Jeff Withey - 96 if his mommy let him play
Momo Jones - 88
Laval Lucas-Perry - 92
Daniel Bejarano - 93
Garland Judkins - 50

50.

Damn I love Rawle

What a great group of cats.

Hope he sticks around another season.

EVCat wrote:looking at Wikipedia rosters for Arizona teams...

they reference the players "ESPN Grade" on a 100 point scale...gonna point out some painful names along side people discussed in this thread.

How did Judkins happen?

Kyle Fogg - 85
Jeff Withey - 96 if his mommy let him play
Momo Jones - 88
Laval Lucas-Perry - 92
Daniel Bejarano - 93
Garland Judkins - 50

50.

We had no recruiting during the Pennell/KO turmoil. Fogg turned out well, but he wasn't any more highly regarded. I forget the name, but when Miller took over, we had some juco SF that wound up going Div. 2 and that was our class.

The Kyryl/DWill/Solo/Parrom/Momo class was a borderline miracle. 4 of those 5 guys made significant contributions and stopped the bleeding and allowed Miller time to get into recruiting his own classes while still having a semi-competitive team.

We've seen better classes, but I don't think we will ever see a more important recruting class at Arizona.

I feel like the reason for the off-season feel of this conversation is the incredibly long expanse of time between our last game and our next game.

....

The 2010 class was absolutely program saving. Momo and Solo were big names, and Solo had tried to come to Arizona like 3 different times then another disaster would cause him to have to back out of the commit. DWill was lightning in a bottle and a total lucky grab, Kyryl gave us a good laugh and a couple of minutes...

Were you thinking of Zane Johnson? Thunderbird kid, total reach.

Merkin wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:Momo was a cat to the core.

Reminded me of the Will Bynum situation. Both left UA in good standing, with no hard feelings on either side. Momo got to play the 2G also at Iona, playing alongside the PG with the highest assists in the nation his first year.

Turner and Judkins were both cancers to the program and Miller made them leave.

Chol also had offers from UNC and KU, so it wasn't just Miller who missed on him.

Will Bynum. Thanks for the memory tick, Merk.

Bynum was such a gnarly little shit. I'm sorry we had to lose him early in his Soph year. But he ended well, getting good time and results at Georgia Tech for two years. Then, undrafted in 2005, the little dude played in the pro preseason leagues and got his chance. Four or five years with the Pistons was his highlight: a non starter, but good minutes and good results----including a 20dimes game.

Little monster could effin' elevate. I watched him twice in about 1999 and he was sailing over everyone's heads for scores. After a nighttime AAU game at Cal State Dominguez where he ruled I wangled a good opportunity to talk with Lute about his place if we could get the commitment. Lute was ecstatic about what he'd seen.

Bynum's height? I looked it up and he's a listed 6/0. No way. Couldn't have been over 5/10, and maybe he was smaller. He was well under Iverson's height.

If anyone's interested, here's a sweet vid of Bynum's hops:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7rL7ONw6a4" target="_blank

Merkin wrote:Turner and Judkins were both cancers to the program and Miller made them leave.

I am pretty sure Garland Judkins left the program because Miller made him play man to man defense too much and Garland was afraid it would affect his offensive game late in the season. He argued for zone to save legs but Miller wouldn't listen.

Garland went on to win numerous championships on NBA2K using his defensive philosophy

EVCat wrote:

Merkin wrote:Turner and Judkins were both cancers to the program and Miller made them leave.

I am pretty sure Garland Judkins left the program because Miller made him play man to man defense too much and Garland was afraid it would affect his offensive game late in the season. He argued for zone to save legs but Miller wouldn't listen.

Garland went on to win numerous championships on NBA2K using his defensive philosophy

Are you saying Rise and Fire is Garland Judkins?

RiseAndFire wrote:Kobi was the man the only time we beat UCLA, it appears he'll be riding the bench tonight and for the rest of his games in an Arizona jersey

I feel bad for him - his NBA aspirations are taking a hit.

Yeah, it's too bad Miller doesn't play zone so he could hide his defensive deficiencies from NBA scouts.

I wonder if Jeff withy ever wishes he wasn't a mommas boy and came to Arizona.

Where is he these days? Self killed whatever potential he had.

EVCat wrote:looking at Wikipedia rosters for Arizona teams...

they reference the players "ESPN Grade" on a 100 point scale...gonna point out some painful names along side people discussed in this thread.

How did Judkins happen?

Kyle Fogg - 85
Jeff Withey - 96 if his mommy let him play
Momo Jones - 88
Laval Lucas-Perry - 92
Daniel Bejarano - 93
Garland Judkins - 50

50.

Wasn't Judkins recruited by Lute near the end of his tenure?

CalStateTempe wrote:Momo was a cat to the core.

We are in the tourney in 2012 with him in uni.

Here is a fun article about the post-Momo era: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/7066 ... nes-depart

az91 wrote:

EVCat wrote:looking at Wikipedia rosters for Arizona teams...

they reference the players "ESPN Grade" on a 100 point scale...gonna point out some painful names along side people discussed in this thread.

How did Judkins happen?

Kyle Fogg - 85
Jeff Withey - 96 if his mommy let him play
Momo Jones - 88
Laval Lucas-Perry - 92
Daniel Bejarano - 93
Garland Judkins - 50

50.

Wasn't Judkins recruited by Lute near the end of his tenure?

Yes. He and Fogg were inherited by Miller. I specifically remember this because I briefly thought Judkins was better than Fogg, so I've always thought of them together. Not one of my better player judgments.

Fogg was a starter on the Sweet 16 team that preceded Miller's tenure where we started Wise/Fogg/Budinger/Horne/Hill.

Mike Dunlap identified and recruited Fogg. He had his intentions on going to a 5th year prep school prior to making his commitment.
Russ Pennell identified and recruited Judkins.

lol that sweet 16 team was memorable, till l-ville curb stomped us

UAEebs86 wrote:

RiseAndFire wrote:Kobi was the man the only time we beat UCLA, it appears he'll be riding the bench tonight and for the rest of his games in an Arizona jersey

I feel bad for him - his NBA aspirations are taking a hit.

Yeah, it's too bad Miller doesn't play zone so he could hide his defensive deficiencies from NBA scouts.

this is rich - when did the NBA scouts start prioritizing defense over offense?

loved that 09 team btw

the cbud/wise/hill/foggy, the UH stomp game/comeback, the win streak beards, the CLAW/clawful

good times

ChooChooCat wrote:Mike Dunlap identified and recruited Fogg. He had his intentions on going to a 5th year prep school prior to making his commitment.
Russ Pennell identified and recruited Judkins.

I think Mike might have seen Fogg a couple of times in a Long Beach AAU tournament. Great eye and read of character, if so.

Choo, do you know how we made the Bejerano mistake? I see from above ESPN graded him 93. Dan was a great kid, but skills were not there even when viewing some of the vids at the time.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: We had no recruiting during the Pennell/KO turmoil. Fogg turned out well, but he wasn't any more highly regarded. I forget the name, but when Miller took over, we had some juco SF that wound up going Div. 2 and that was our class.

The Kyryl/DWill/Solo/Parrom/Momo class was a borderline miracle. 4 of those 5 guys made significant contributions and stopped the bleeding and allowed Miller time to get into recruiting his own classes while still having a semi-competitive team.

We've seen better classes, but I don't think we will ever see a more important recruting class at Arizona.

Is the SF you are referring to DJ Schumpert?

ChooChooCat wrote:Mike Dunlap identified and recruited Fogg. He had his intentions on going to a 5th year prep school prior to making his commitment.
Russ Pennell identified and recruited Judkins.

According to this article, Judkins was a replacement for Brandon Jennings : http://tucson.com/sports/basketball/col ... 8bfbb.html.

az91 wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote: We had no recruiting during the Pennell/KO turmoil. Fogg turned out well, but he wasn't any more highly regarded. I forget the name, but when Miller took over, we had some juco SF that wound up going Div. 2 and that was our class.

The Kyryl/DWill/Solo/Parrom/Momo class was a borderline miracle. 4 of those 5 guys made significant contributions and stopped the bleeding and allowed Miller time to get into recruiting his own classes while still having a semi-competitive team.

We've seen better classes, but I don't think we will ever see a more important recruting class at Arizona.

Is the SF you are referring to DJ Schumpert?

http://allsportstucson.com/2015/11/13/o ... al-roster/" target="_blank

ARIZONA BASKETBALL Olson’s last Arizona Wildcats recruit, Shumpert, makes Los Angeles D-League final roster
Little was heard of Shumpert, now 25, after he transferred from the Arizona program to Cal State-San Bernardino after Sean Miller’s first season of 2009-10. A wiry 6’7″ and 190-pound small forward, Shumpert played minimal minutes as a reserve in 14 games for the Wildcats as a freshman and sophomore.

Shumpert went on to complete his final two years at Division II San Bernardino, where as a senior in 2011-12, he scored 14 points with seven rebounds and a career-high five blocked shots in an 80-72 loss against UCLA.

That 93 grade on ESPN for Bejerano isnt really telling at all. They had him ranked #91 overall, scout had him #72, Rivals had him #75 - low 4* on all services.

EOCT wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:Mike Dunlap identified and recruited Fogg. He had his intentions on going to a 5th year prep school prior to making his commitment.
Russ Pennell identified and recruited Judkins.

I think Mike might have seen Fogg a couple of times in a Long Beach AAU tournament. Great eye and read of character, if so.

Choo, do you know how we made the Bejerano mistake? I see from above ESPN graded him 93. Dan was a great kid, but skills were not there even when viewing some of the vids at the time.

I think it was as simple as he was the highest ranked player in the state of Arizona that year. Miller literally came into the job, wanted to make his mark by beating his old buddy Herbie for a high level Phx area kid and did just that, but ended up disappointed in the end.

NYCat wrote: Is the SF you are referring to DJ Schumpert?

http://allsportstucson.com/2015/11/13/o ... al-roster/" target="_blank

Kirk Walters made a D League roster. Not every stud athlete wants to make $24K, so need to fill up the roster some how.

Shumpert was promised a 4 year scholie by Miller, or maybe his mother was by CSM, but DJ saw that he would be on the end of the bench forever, so probably was encouraged to leave when bigger recruits came in.

Shumpert averaged a double double in HS, blocks and rebounds.

az91 wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote: We had no recruiting during the Pennell/KO turmoil. Fogg turned out well, but he wasn't any more highly regarded. I forget the name, but when Miller took over, we had some juco SF that wound up going Div. 2 and that was our class.

The Kyryl/DWill/Solo/Parrom/Momo class was a borderline miracle. 4 of those 5 guys made significant contributions and stopped the bleeding and allowed Miller time to get into recruiting his own classes while still having a semi-competitive team.

We've seen better classes, but I don't think we will ever see a more important recruting class at Arizona.

Is the SF you are referring to DJ Schumpert?

No. I'm pretty sure last name was Johnson. He was a commit who quickly became not a commit. Never set foot in Tucson. I forget his recruiter, but it was during the complete lame duck period.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

az91 wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote: We had no recruiting during the Pennell/KO turmoil. Fogg turned out well, but he wasn't any more highly regarded. I forget the name, but when Miller took over, we had some juco SF that wound up going Div. 2 and that was our class.

The Kyryl/DWill/Solo/Parrom/Momo class was a borderline miracle. 4 of those 5 guys made significant contributions and stopped the bleeding and allowed Miller time to get into recruiting his own classes while still having a semi-competitive team.

We've seen better classes, but I don't think we will ever see a more important recruting class at Arizona.

Is the SF you are referring to DJ Schumpert?

No. I'm pretty sure last name was Johnson. He was a commit who quickly became not a commit. Never set foot in Tucson. I forget his recruiter, but it was during the complete lame duck period.

Maybe that was Tremaine Johnson, who ended up at Eastern Washington, I think.

az91 wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

az91 wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote: We had no recruiting during the Pennell/KO turmoil. Fogg turned out well, but he wasn't any more highly regarded. I forget the name, but when Miller took over, we had some juco SF that wound up going Div. 2 and that was our class.

The Kyryl/DWill/Solo/Parrom/Momo class was a borderline miracle. 4 of those 5 guys made significant contributions and stopped the bleeding and allowed Miller time to get into recruiting his own classes while still having a semi-competitive team.

We've seen better classes, but I don't think we will ever see a more important recruting class at Arizona.

Is the SF you are referring to DJ Schumpert?

No. I'm pretty sure last name was Johnson. He was a commit who quickly became not a commit. Never set foot in Tucson. I forget his recruiter, but it was during the complete lame duck period.

Maybe that was Tremaine Johnson, who ended up at Eastern Washington, I think.

Yes. That's who I was thinking of. That's where we were, a guy deciding between Arizona and Eastern Washington.

NYCat wrote:

NYCat wrote:Final regular season Kenpom:

Kenpom #21 (21.69) | AdjO: #29 (116.4) | AdjD: 27 (94. 7)

After Colorado

Kenpom: #21 (+21.96) | AdjO #27 (117.1) | AdjD #30 (95.2)

After UCLA

Kenpom: #21 (+22.54) | AdjO #24 (117.2) | AdjD #28 (94.6)

So what are we doin about that Dillion Brooks guy?

Main Event wrote:So what are we doin about that Dillion Brooks guy?

Not using LM to guard him!!! I will throw up in my mouth if Miller trots out two bigs (Again!) to start against Altmans small ball.

CSM needs to sit Dusan, move LM to the 5, and start PJC tonight. Kobi had better be ready to go (mentally) because he is going to be desparately needed tonight for depth. We need to match their small ball with small ball.

I say committee of Kadeem, Rawle, Lauri, and Pinder. Or just put our shut down defender on him all game, PJC

Pinder and Kadeem double team in the first 6-8 mins of the first half. No easy baskets.

My opinion is probably not the popular one, but I think the key to the game is keeping Dorsey from having a big game

rgdeuce wrote:My opinion is probably not the popular one, but I think the key to the game is keeping Dorsey from having a big game

The radio guys think KA will be on Dorsey for this reason. Also, not sure that KA matches up all that well with Brooks. If we can slow down Dorsey & Boucher, maybe we have a better chance. You got to pick your battles with OU. All 5 starters ave double figures in scoring.

rgdeuce wrote:My opinion is probably not the popular one, but I think the key to the game is keeping Dorsey from having a big game

I'm fine with Brooks getting his. I agree the key is limiting everyone else.

NYCat wrote:

NYCat wrote:

NYCat wrote:Final regular season Kenpom:

Kenpom #21 (21.69) | AdjO: #29 (116.4) | AdjD: 27 (94. 7)

After Colorado

Kenpom: #21 (+21.96) | AdjO #27 (117.1) | AdjD #30 (95.2)

After UCLA

Kenpom: #21 (+22.54) | AdjO #24 (117.2) | AdjD #28 (94.6)

After Oregon

Kenpom: #22 (+22.71) | AdjO: #20 (117.6) | AdjD: #29 (94.9)

Currently tied with Kansas in AdjD (94.9)

Movement in AdjO, but not in defense.

NYCat wrote:

NYCat wrote:

NYCat wrote:

NYCat wrote:Final regular season Kenpom:

Kenpom #21 (21.69) | AdjO: #29 (116.4) | AdjD: 27 (94. 7)

After Colorado

Kenpom: #21 (+21.96) | AdjO #27 (117.1) | AdjD #30 (95.2)

After UCLA

Kenpom: #21 (+22.54) | AdjO #24 (117.2) | AdjD #28 (94.6)

After Oregon

Kenpom: #22 (+22.71) | AdjO: #20 (117.6) | AdjD: #29 (94.9)

Currently tied with Kansas in AdjD (94.9)

Movement in AdjO, but not in defense.

So we jumped 4 spots in AdjO, fell one spot in AdjD, and that translates into falling in the overall rankings by a spot? Pomeroy's rankings are hard to figure out.

Iowa State jumped up after their win over WVU.

Obviously anything could happen in the tournament, but could you really hope for much more going into it? A lot of the biggest questions seem to have been answered.

It seems like the integration of Trier into the team is complete and the offense finally moves well when he is on the court. As a result he is getting his points without harming others. This has come at Kobis loss but no matter what he has done the last few games he is a great guy to come off the bench if needed.

Lauri has had some of his best games of the season lately. Ya maybe he isn't shooting at early season rates but his shot is definitely back and the cold period forced him to improve his inside game and defense which are both noticeably better.

Rawle has been really great at the dirty stuff offensively, great rebounding, and underrated defensively.

PJC has been amazing all around.

Even Pinder has been a key part, even if it was just keeping lauri out of foul trouble.

A hell a lot of credit needs to go to Miller to pulling it all together right on time

baconus66 wrote:Obviously anything could happen in the tournament, but could you really hope for much more going into it? A lot of the biggest questions seem to have been answered.

It seems like the integration of Trier into the team is complete and the offense finally moves well when he is on the court. As a result he is getting his points without harming others. This has come at Kobis loss but no matter what he has done the last few games he is a great guy to come off the bench if needed.

Lauri has had some of his best games of the season lately. Ya maybe he isn't shooting at early season rates but his shot is definitely back and the cold period forced him to improve his inside game and defense which are both noticeably better.

Rawle has been really great at the dirty stuff offensively, great rebounding, and underrated defensively.

PJC has been amazing all around.

Even Pinder has been a key part, even if it was just keeping lauri out of foul trouble.

A hell a lot of credit needs to go to Miller to pulling it all together right on time

Take me back in time to when PJC sprained his ankle, and I would have taken a 5 seed with some momentum in the right direction. I legit could have seen us as a 8-9 seed at that point.

The way we responded to so much adversity is a credit to a great coach and a tough bunch of kids. Even guys like Lauri, Chance, PJC and Dusan have had to deal with slumps and down times. Yet here we are, looking at being a 2, possibly sneaking into the 1 and being crushed if we were as low as 3.

Now that Arizona is playing well, their size advantage will be too much for anybody until the third game of the tourney.

NYCat wrote:

NYCat wrote:

NYCat wrote:

NYCat wrote:Final regular season Kenpom:

Kenpom #21 (21.69) | AdjO: #29 (116.4) | AdjD: 27 (94. 7)

After Colorado

Kenpom: #21 (+21.96) | AdjO #27 (117.1) | AdjD #30 (95.2)

After UCLA

Kenpom: #21 (+22.54) | AdjO #24 (117.2) | AdjD #28 (94.6)

After Oregon

Kenpom: #22 (+22.71) | AdjO: #20 (117.6) | AdjD: #29 (94.9)

Currently tied with Kansas in AdjD (94.9)

Movement in AdjO, but not in defense.

Huh moved to #28 in AdjD (94.8). Kansas moved 30 to 29. I think Rhode island dropped which explains the move without playing or there was an error corrected.

FAVORITES
Kansas 8/1
N. Carolina 9/1
Villanova 9/1
Gonzaga 10/1
Duke 10/1
Kentucky 10/1
UCLA 12/1
Arizona 12/1
Louisville 16/1
Oregon 20/1

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

az91 wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

az91 wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote: We had no recruiting during the Pennell/KO turmoil. Fogg turned out well, but he wasn't any more highly regarded. I forget the name, but when Miller took over, we had some juco SF that wound up going Div. 2 and that was our class.

The Kyryl/DWill/Solo/Parrom/Momo class was a borderline miracle. 4 of those 5 guys made significant contributions and stopped the bleeding and allowed Miller time to get into recruiting his own classes while still having a semi-competitive team.

We've seen better classes, but I don't think we will ever see a more important recruting class at Arizona.

Is the SF you are referring to DJ Schumpert?

No. I'm pretty sure last name was Johnson. He was a commit who quickly became not a commit. Never set foot in Tucson. I forget his recruiter, but it was during the complete lame duck period.

Maybe that was Tremaine Johnson, who ended up at Eastern Washington, I think.

Yes. That's who I was thinking of. That's where we were, a guy deciding between Arizona and Eastern Washington.

Thwre was also Zane Johnson from T Bird.