Bear Down Wildcats

Olsondogg wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:09 pm Arizona is one of only a dozen undefeated teams left, correct? And they play one of the undefeateds next, correct?

And the board is nitpicking about “slow starts” and “potential foul trouble” correct?

Are you new here?

97cats wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:01 pm

Alieberman wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:17 pm We should be talking about how much better Benn has been playing since he lost the headband and how unstoppable we will be once Kerr loses his.

a wise man once said headbands on a basketball court cut all circulation to the brain

LUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUTE

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:59 pm

Olsondogg wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:09 pm Arizona is one of only a dozen undefeated teams left, correct? And they play one of the undefeateds next, correct?

And the board is nitpicking about “slow starts” and “potential foul trouble” correct?

Oregon State is 1-7. There isn't much else to do but extrapolate our performance against them to good teams like Wyoming, Illinois, Tenn, UCLA and USC, who are 5 of our next 7 games.

Nitpicking against bad teams is commenting on what gets you beat by good teams if it continues.

Honestly, I don’t know which of those upcoming teams are “good”. I mean the pac is way down this year, Illinois was better last year (but it’s a road game) , Wyoming best W is what, UW? I think Tennessee is good, and that’s also on the road.

This is the type of year that Arizona should be set up for a decent seed. I hope some more adversity happens for players to experience within those upcoming games. I also wonder what happens to team psyche when Arizona loses their first game and if it is a resounding loss.

Then again, this would be the year to go undefeated.

3/4 PAC players of the week played for Sean Miller last year.

Undefeated ain't happening. I won't get into the inaccuracy and bias of the eastern media weighted AP rankings, but they're familiar and common, so I'll use that instead of something else. We've beaten current #34 Michigan. We play at #28 Illinois on 12/11. We're at #13 Tennessee on 12/22. We're at #4 UCLA on 12/30, followed by a game at #16 USC on 1/2. That's a pretty good gauntlet, and we won't get through that unscathed. After that, it's the re-matches with the LA schools at McKale in February, but also "fun with Pac-12 refs" at a number of venues on the road against teams that may not get votes from some columnist for the Poughkeepsie Journal, but our occasional little backyard 5 on 8 can still be plenty challenging.

97cats wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:01 pm

Alieberman wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:17 pm We should be talking about how much better Benn has been playing since he lost the headband and how unstoppable we will be once Kerr loses his.

a wise man once said headbands on a basketball court cut all circulation to the brain

Lute? If he didn't it was probably John Wooden.

I remember that quote from Lute.

I think the entire team came out with headbands and we ended up losing. Lute was not pleased.

Got tickets for the 1/23 game at Berkeley. Still gonna try to see either the USC or UCLA in L.A. game in a few weeks.

In D1 BBall...

#1 in points scored(91.3), win margin(32.6), assists per game(23)
#2 in rebounds per game(45), opposing team FG%(34%)
#4 in A/T ratio(1.81), defensive rebounds(31.86)
#6 in blocked shots per game(7)

Whatever, Katz. He gave us zero regard before the season started, so this high ranking he's giving us is deeply Vitalean (ie: entirely devoid of original thinking and based only on what others write/tweet).

Alieberman wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:15 pm I remember that quote from Lute.

I think the entire team came out with headbands and we ended up losing. Lute was not pleased.

Actually, it was WSU and we won the game. Olson was not pleased with the play of the team however.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/no-2-wildc ... e-cougars/

Much to the shock of coach Lute Olson, No. 2 Arizona came out for Thursday night's game against Washington State wearing white headbands.

After his team struggled to an 80-75 victory, Olson promised the headbands would never be seen again.

"The headbands compressed the brains," Olson said. "The first time I saw them was when they came out to warm up. You won't see the headbands again."

azgreg wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:59 pm

Stupid list. One of the teams that makes me very nervous is USC. I thought half those guys were due to graduate. This might be year three were they sweep their crosstown rivals. Boogie is for real, Peterson is one of those guys that always gives us trouble and Mobley is taking on more of a scoring load. Tough team. They still have Andy as a coach so we have that in our favor.

Olsondogg wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 3:05 pm 3/4 PAC players of the week played for Sean Miller last year.

And one freshman of the week that he recruit but left when he did.. He had an eye for talent and traveled to get them.

Jeff whitey became Bill Self’s personal toupee groomer.

dmjcat wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:37 pm

Alieberman wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:15 pm I remember that quote from Lute.

I think the entire team came out with headbands and we ended up losing. Lute was not pleased.

Actually, it was WSU and we won the game. Olson was not pleased with the play of the team however.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/no-2-wildc ... e-cougars/

Much to the shock of coach Lute Olson, No. 2 Arizona came out for Thursday night's game against Washington State wearing white headbands.

After his team struggled to an 80-75 victory, Olson promised the headbands would never be seen again.

"The headbands compressed the brains," Olson said. "The first time I saw them was when they came out to warm up. You won't see the headbands again."

He must've got over it. Shakur and Hassan both wore them, though it could be argued it compressed Shakur's brain enough that he didn't know where the court ends and out-of-bounds begins.

The Cowboys are hitting 50.1 percent of their shots from the field, including 38 percent from beyond the arc. They tied an NCAA record by draining 28 3-pointers in a win over Hastings College on Nov. 26. They are also 8th in the country scoring. Got a big guy that just scored 35. No gimme.

TheCat wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:49 am The Cowboys are hitting 50.1 percent of their shots from the field, including 38 percent from beyond the arc. They tied an NCAA record by draining 28 3-pointers in a win over Hastings College on Nov. 26. They are also 8th in the country scoring. Got a big guy that just scored 35. No gimme.

Will be curious to see the spread on this game. I'm guessing AZ -9

TheCat wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:49 am The Cowboys are hitting 50.1 percent of their shots from the field, including 38 percent from beyond the arc. They tied an NCAA record by draining 28 3-pointers in a win over Hastings College on Nov. 26. They are also 8th in the country scoring. Got a big guy that just scored 35. No gimme.

On his first radio show Tommy spoke highly of their big and their point guard. Also said they're likely the best team we've played this year.

Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 12:03 pm Will be curious to see the spread on this game. I'm guessing AZ -9

Will be closer to -15 I'm guessing. They have some weapons and are undefeated, but they haven't really played anyone. Was looking at their schedule last night, and I think their highest ranked opponent was Grand Canyon if memory serves.

Macho Grande wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:48 pm

Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 12:03 pm Will be curious to see the spread on this game. I'm guessing AZ -9

Will be closer to -15 I'm guessing. They have some weapons and are undefeated, but they haven't really played anyone. Was looking at their schedule last night, and I think their highest ranked opponent was Grand Canyon if memory serves.

Yeah, I get that. They *did* already beat a Pac team on the road (UW).

-15 is a huge spread for this game, imo.

dovecanyoncat wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 12:45 pm

TheCat wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:49 am The Cowboys are hitting 50.1 percent of their shots from the field, including 38 percent from beyond the arc. They tied an NCAA record by draining 28 3-pointers in a win over Hastings College on Nov. 26. They are also 8th in the country scoring. Got a big guy that just scored 35. No gimme.

On his first radio show Tommy spoke highly of their big and their point guard. Also said they're likely the best team we've played this year.

Hmm. Looking forward to a nice test, but this shouldn't be that complicated of a game for Arizona.

• Their big PG is going to drive the ball a ton and try to score at the rim or get to the line.

• Their SG is going to take a bunch of threes.

• Their SF is *only* going to take threes.

• Their PF can score inside but can be encouraged to move his game to the perimeter where he's less effective.

• Their C is their high usage scorer, doing all of his damage on 2pt FGs and at the line. He's a 6'9" 250lb soph.

• Their sixth man is a former Utah Ute, 6'6" soph who is an excellent three point shooter but not much of an athlete.

And that's basically it. They would prefer to only play six guys, maximum eight depending on their foul trouble (with those extra two guys being basically bodies on the floor).

I think they're going to have a heck of a time trying to score inside with their PG and their post players given our size and athleticism. We have the NCAA's best rim protection, don't see that changing with Wyoming. That leaves their wings to shoot threes over our larger wings - and I'd happily give them those chances. Their shooters aren't going to have the legs to keep them in the game given our pace, our athletes, and their short rotation.

YoDeFoe wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:15 pm

dovecanyoncat wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 12:45 pm

TheCat wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:49 am The Cowboys are hitting 50.1 percent of their shots from the field, including 38 percent from beyond the arc. They tied an NCAA record by draining 28 3-pointers in a win over Hastings College on Nov. 26. They are also 8th in the country scoring. Got a big guy that just scored 35. No gimme.

On his first radio show Tommy spoke highly of their big and their point guard. Also said they're likely the best team we've played this year.

Hmm. Looking forward to a nice test, but this shouldn't be that complicated of a game for Arizona.

• Their big PG is going to drive the ball a ton and try to score at the rim or get to the line.

• Their SG is going to take a bunch of threes.

• Their SF is *only* going to take threes.

• Their PF can score inside but can be encouraged to move his game to the perimeter where he's less effective.

• Their C is their high usage scorer, doing all of his damage on 2pt FGs and at the line. He's a 6'9" 250lb soph.

• Their sixth man is a former Utah Ute, 6'6" soph who is an excellent three point shooter but not much of an athlete.

And that's basically it. They would prefer to only play six guys, maximum eight depending on their foul trouble (with those extra two guys being basically bodies on the floor).

I think they're going to have a heck of a time trying to score inside with their PG and their post players given our size and athleticism. We have the NCAA's best rim protection, don't see that changing with Wyoming. That leaves their wings to shoot threes over our larger wings - and I'd happily give them those chances. Their shooters aren't going to have the legs to keep them in the game given our pace, our athletes, and their short rotation.

When I saw how many minutes those 6 guys soak up I thought they're gonna have to play without fouling us while trying to get us to foul them. The Refs will be wearing their special tiaras tomorrow.

YoDeFoe wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:15 pm

dovecanyoncat wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 12:45 pm

TheCat wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:49 am The Cowboys are hitting 50.1 percent of their shots from the field, including 38 percent from beyond the arc. They tied an NCAA record by draining 28 3-pointers in a win over Hastings College on Nov. 26. They are also 8th in the country scoring. Got a big guy that just scored 35. No gimme.

On his first radio show Tommy spoke highly of their big and their point guard. Also said they're likely the best team we've played this year.

Hmm. Looking forward to a nice test, but this shouldn't be that complicated of a game for Arizona.

• Their big PG is going to drive the ball a ton and try to score at the rim or get to the line.

• Their SG is going to take a bunch of threes.

• Their SF is *only* going to take threes.

• Their PF can score inside but can be encouraged to move his game to the perimeter where he's less effective.

• Their C is their high usage scorer, doing all of his damage on 2pt FGs and at the line. He's a 6'9" 250lb soph.

• Their sixth man is a former Utah Ute, 6'6" soph who is an excellent three point shooter but not much of an athlete.

And that's basically it. They would prefer to only play six guys, maximum eight depending on their foul trouble (with those extra two guys being basically bodies on the floor).

I think they're going to have a heck of a time trying to score inside with their PG and their post players given our size and athleticism. We have the NCAA's best rim protection, don't see that changing with Wyoming. That leaves their wings to shoot threes over our larger wings - and I'd happily give them those chances. Their shooters aren't going to have the legs to keep them in the game given our pace, our athletes, and their short rotation.

I'm going to propose a change to:

they're going to have a heck of a time trying to score inside with their PG and their post players given Koloko.

Way too early mock

Benn
6th: https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/
9th: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/295 ... basketball
9th: https://hoopshype.com/lists/nba-mock-dr ... ari-smith/
11th: https://www.si.com/nba/thunder/draft-co ... rn-forward
14th: https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/wi ... and-trevor
14th: https://www.tankathon.com/mock_draft
23rd: https://nbadraftroom.com/p/2022-nba-mock-draft/

Koloko
35th: https://nbadraftroom.com/p/2022-2nd-round/
44th: https://hoopshype.com/lists/nba-mock-dr ... ari-smith/

Tubelis:
42nd: https://hoopshype.com/lists/nba-mock-dr ... ari-smith/
54th: https://nbadraftroom.com/p/2022-2nd-round/

May sound nuts, but I could see Ben playing his way into the top 5.

Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:44 pm May sound nuts, but I could see Ben playing his way into the top 5.

Announcers said he reminds them a lot about Anthony Edwards.

Although I certainly don't see it.

so did you get in her pants?

shes not that kind of girl, Booger!

why, does she have a penis?

Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:44 pm May sound nuts, but I could see Ben playing his way into the top 5.

I doubt he goes that high just due to two factors. First, wing is less valuable than playmaker or big. This isn't his fault, there's just a glut of guys in the 6'5-6'8 range in the NBA who play the 2 or 3. It's harder to get to top 5 in Benn's position.

Second, and this is related to #1, the biggest weakness in his arsenal is playmaking for others. His assist rate just isn't particularly good and I doubt that changes. He's a finisher, not an initiator. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but the guys in his physical profile who go highest tend tp up their stock by being initiators and not just finishers.

That said, mid-late lottery is entirely reasonable, I think. Being picked in the 8-12 range means he's pretty damn good.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:50 am

Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:44 pm May sound nuts, but I could see Ben playing his way into the top 5.

I doubt he goes that high just due to two factors. First, wing is less valuable than playmaker or big. This isn't his fault, there's just a glut of guys in the 6'5-6'8 range in the NBA who play the 2 or 3. It's harder to get to top 5 in Benn's position.

Second, and this is related to #1, the biggest weakness in his arsenal is playmaking for others. His assist rate just isn't particularly good and I doubt that changes. He's a finisher, not an initiator. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but the guys in his physical profile who go highest tend tp up their stock by being initiators and not just finishers.

That said, mid-late lottery is entirely reasonable, I think. Being picked in the 8-12 range means he's pretty damn good.

Agree with all points. But...the player I'm seeing him most often compared to is Anthony Edwards, who went #1. Maybe he's not quite the player AE is, but Benn is actually taller than AE and may have better defensive potential.

Maybe Bradley Beal, Zach LaVine, or even Vince Carter?

Trying to think of guys who are super athletic, can jump and who had flashes of good shooting in college, but not dead-eye while there.

IndianaZonaFan wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:22 am Maybe Bradley Beal, Zach LaVine, or even Vince Carter?

Trying to think of guys who are super athletic, can jump and who had flashes of good shooting in college, but not dead-eye while there.

Zach Levine is a great comp.

I am getting ready to drive to the Wyoming game today. 97Cats post reminds me of how people think of me, so I will have to go in a way that others won't be offended, and put my life in danger. I haven't gone to a game in over 11 years because of the restroom issue. So when I attend an event like this I find it impossible to go as I am, without the fear of causing an event. It is apparent that if I want to go to any major event I have to hide who I am. That is just reality. I want to enjoy the game and not be in fear. I can tell stories of what I've had to endure but this isn't the tread for that.

Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:05 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:50 am

Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:44 pm May sound nuts, but I could see Ben playing his way into the top 5.

I doubt he goes that high just due to two factors. First, wing is less valuable than playmaker or big. This isn't his fault, there's just a glut of guys in the 6'5-6'8 range in the NBA who play the 2 or 3. It's harder to get to top 5 in Benn's position.

Second, and this is related to #1, the biggest weakness in his arsenal is playmaking for others. His assist rate just isn't particularly good and I doubt that changes. He's a finisher, not an initiator. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but the guys in his physical profile who go highest tend tp up their stock by being initiators and not just finishers.

That said, mid-late lottery is entirely reasonable, I think. Being picked in the 8-12 range means he's pretty damn good.

Agree with all points. But...the player I'm seeing him most often compared to is Anthony Edwards, who went #1. Maybe he's not quite the player AE is, but Benn is actually taller than AE and may have better defensive potential.

I have trouble seeing Edwards just because he was about 30 pounds heavier than Mathurin at this age. Edwards was a combo of explosive athlete and a thick, solid frame. Benn is more lean and spidery.

Benn reminds me a little more of Mikal Bridges minus the Inspector Gadget arms.

well i just jinxed it........i apologize in advance

December 30th - Section 114 Row 1

Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:05 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:50 am

Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:44 pm May sound nuts, but I could see Ben playing his way into the top 5.

I doubt he goes that high just due to two factors. First, wing is less valuable than playmaker or big. This isn't his fault, there's just a glut of guys in the 6'5-6'8 range in the NBA who play the 2 or 3. It's harder to get to top 5 in Benn's position.

Second, and this is related to #1, the biggest weakness in his arsenal is playmaking for others. His assist rate just isn't particularly good and I doubt that changes. He's a finisher, not an initiator. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but the guys in his physical profile who go highest tend tp up their stock by being initiators and not just finishers.

That said, mid-late lottery is entirely reasonable, I think. Being picked in the 8-12 range means he's pretty damn good.

Agree with all points. But...the player I'm seeing him most often compared to is Anthony Edwards, who went #1. Maybe he's not quite the player AE is, but Benn is actually taller than AE and may have better defensive potential.

Benn is not Anthony Edwards.

Edwards came out of college as a much more physically gifted athlete, which is crazy given Benn's size and bounce. Edwards with the longer wingspan and greater strength (25 pounds on Benn) - but more importantly his first step and body control were clearly NBA level. And while Benn is the better shooter, Edwards was able to get to any shot he wanted as a freshman in college. His ability to start, stop, change direction, step back... again, just clearly NBA level. He could get by anybody but was also a freight train in transition. Tough combo.

Now, Edwards could get to his shot but he wasn't yet a shooter. The shot looked good but he constantly put himself into tough shots.

Benn is the more efficient shooter at this stage, but that's not what makes an NBA star currently. It's the ability to create offense - playmaking, as Spiff noted, and shot creation. Right now Benn doesn't have a deep bag. He generally needs some help in getting to his jumper and despite the recent above the rim finishing he's been less than spectacular at finishing his drives to the rim (too often getting stripped and not getting to the line at the level that you'd hope with a 29% free throw rate).

Because of Benn's lack of shot creation and passing, I don't expect him to be a lottery pick. I could certainly be wrong (I haven't really looked at the board and there's plenty of time to move up or down). He's going to get pegged as a complimentary wing, and that means late lotto or early 20's to me.

If Benn is going to move up he needs to drop the turnovers (partly due to his poor driving), show a little more shot creation, and do a better job of seeking and finishing through contact. If he's unable to do those things in the NCAA, it's tough to project with confidence that he'll be able to do them in the NBA.

97cats wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 11:50 am well i just jinxed it........i apologize in advance

December 30th - Section 114 Row 1

Nice! FYI: great seats but you're going to be right behind the student section (if it matters to you)

Catintheheat wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 11:18 am I am getting ready to drive to the Wyoming game today. 97Cats post reminds me of how people think of me, so I will have to go in a way that others won't be offended, and put my life in danger. I haven't gone to a game in over 11 years because of the restroom issue. So when I attend an event like this I find it impossible to go as I am, without the fear of causing an event. It is apparent that if I want to go to any major event I have to hide who I am. That is just reality. I want to enjoy the game and not be in fear. I can tell stories of what I've had to endure but this isn't the tread for that.

I'd like to think you wouldn't have a problem here in Tucson... but at a sporting event... you never know about the crowd. Either way... it sucks that it has to be a consideration for you.

College basketball games are like 1 hour 45 minutes to 2 hours. I rarely ever have to use the bathroom at McKale.

another good comparison and he even looks like Russell Westbrook.

Alieberman wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 12:02 pm

Catintheheat wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 11:18 am I am getting ready to drive to the Wyoming game today. 97Cats post reminds me of how people think of me, so I will have to go in a way that others won't be offended, and put my life in danger. I haven't gone to a game in over 11 years because of the restroom issue. So when I attend an event like this I find it impossible to go as I am, without the fear of causing an event. It is apparent that if I want to go to any major event I have to hide who I am. That is just reality. I want to enjoy the game and not be in fear. I can tell stories of what I've had to endure but this isn't the tread for that.

I'd like to think you wouldn't have a problem here in Tucson... but at a sporting event... you never know about the crowd. Either way... it sucks that it has to be a consideration for you.

One other thing. With deep apologies - and not to excuse but instead to explain - we're having a struggle where we're sort of living two parallel, mutually-exclusive realities. There's the reality where we've unlearned what was taught to us, and there's the reality of the continuity of our lives going back to childhood, where we uncritically sopped up movies, and then actually went to college ready to live out Animal House. And those TV shows and movies are with us like the day we saw them, ready to be stirred up uncritically.

Last week I was reminiscing with pure joy over the memory of A Christmas Story, and getting my kid all excited to watch it with me. I hadn't seen it since the 1980s. Watching it now was a horrifying realization. It makes me wonder whether it would help just to rewatch all that stuff critically now.

All I can say is that we're still carrying those teenagers inside us, and it's sparked by those films and stuff when they come up, but not by real life. I'm really sorry for all of it, and that it's you that get asked to carry the burden every freaking time we slip up and say something that got imprinted on us when we weren't mature or ready enough to contend with it.

YoDeFoe wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 12:00 pm

Nice! FYI: great seats but you're going to be right behind the student section (if it matters to you)

doesnt matter to me! there are a few rows (i think 5) in front of the students.

YoDeFoe wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 12:00 pm

97cats wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 11:50 am well i just jinxed it........i apologize in advance

December 30th - Section 114 Row 1

Nice! FYI: great seats but you're going to be right behind the student section (if it matters to you)

December 30th there won't be any students in town. Don't they sell the Zona Zoo tickets to the general public during the break?

Look at us.

Tommy Lloyd lucked into the most passionate fan base west of the Mississippi*.





*I said what I said Jayhawk fans. Don’t even try to step to me enfuego.

Just received my tickets from StubHub. Section 3 row 17. I need to pick up a UA t-shirt.

On my way from Phoenix shortly.

YoDeFoe wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 11:52 am Benn is not Anthony Edwards.

Edwards came out of college as a much more physically gifted athlete, which is crazy given Benn's size and bounce. Edwards with the longer wingspan and greater strength (25 pounds on Benn) - but more importantly his first step and body control were clearly NBA level. And while Benn is the better shooter, Edwards was able to get to any shot he wanted as a freshman in college. His ability to start, stop, change direction, step back... again, just clearly NBA level. He could get by anybody but was also a freight train in transition. Tough combo.

Now, Edwards could get to his shot but he wasn't yet a shooter. The shot looked good but he constantly put himself into tough shots.

Benn is the more efficient shooter at this stage, but that's not what makes an NBA star currently. It's the ability to create offense - playmaking, as Spiff noted, and shot creation. Right now Benn doesn't have a deep bag. He generally needs some help in getting to his jumper and despite the recent above the rim finishing he's been less than spectacular at finishing his drives to the rim (too often getting stripped and not getting to the line at the level that you'd hope with a 29% free throw rate).

Because of Benn's lack of shot creation and passing, I don't expect him to be a lottery pick. I could certainly be wrong (I haven't really looked at the board and there's plenty of time to move up or down). He's going to get pegged as a complimentary wing, and that means late lotto or early 20's to me.

If Benn is going to move up he needs to drop the turnovers (partly due to his poor driving), show a little more shot creation, and do a better job of seeking and finishing through contact. If he's unable to do those things in the NCAA, it's tough to project with confidence that he'll be able to do them in the NBA.

Nice breakdown and I fully agree. Edwards went #1 because he had the athleticism to explode by people and the frame to bully people. Even in the league, it's still apparent that he's just a big challenge for a defender because you have to be able to match both qualities.

Benn's bounce and athleticism is close to Edwards, but he isn't going to overpower people like Edwards can. I raised Bridges because I think that's a more reasonable comparison, a wing who plays off others and gives you some scoring punch along with D, but isn't going to be a playmaker.

The weird thing about Mathurin is he had a .417 ftr as a freshman, which is significantly better than this year. His 3 attempt rate is basically static, so it's not that he's gunning more. That ftr drop is a lot of what's driven his efficiency down vs last year.

Appreciate the conversation around Benn's pro potential.

Since the prevailing opinion here is that he's late lotto at best, I guess I'd ask which players you've watched so far would absolutely come ahead of him in an early '22 mock. I've watched Holmgren a few times, and I'm not at all convinced he's the top player in the next draft. It's hard to imagine a team taking him over Banchero.

Probably not the appropriate thread for this turn in the discussion, but I do think it relates to Benn. Would be interested what folks think of Koloko's draft prospects too.

Catintheheat wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 11:18 am I am getting ready to drive to the Wyoming game today. 97Cats post reminds me of how people think of me, so I will have to go in a way that others won't be offended, and put my life in danger. I haven't gone to a game in over 11 years because of the restroom issue. So when I attend an event like this I find it impossible to go as I am, without the fear of causing an event. It is apparent that if I want to go to any major event I have to hide who I am. That is just reality. I want to enjoy the game and not be in fear. I can tell stories of what I've had to endure but this isn't the tread for that.

Don't they have either family bathrooms, or gender neutral bathrooms in arenas? I use them all the time since they tend to be cleaner and more private than the men's room. Especially in airports.

Remember the wonky bathroom signs at the Bum Steer? Always saw women going into the men's room, and I personally never had an issue with it.

Even at sporting events years ago, when the line for the women's room was way out the door, so women started using the men's room.

And yes, I understand all it takes is one person to make your life miserable trying to use the bathroom you feel more comfortable in.

Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:42 pm Appreciate the conversation around Benn's pro potential.

Since the prevailing opinion here is that he's late lotto at best, I guess I'd ask which players you've watched so far would absolutely come ahead of him in an early '22 mock. I've watched Holmgren a few times, and I'm not at all convinced he's the top player in the next draft. It's hard to imagine a team taking him over Banchero.

Probably not the appropriate thread for this turn in the discussion, but I do think it relates to Benn. Would be interested what folks think of Koloko's draft prospects too.

Yeah that's the part where I could easily be wrong - I just haven't watched enough of the competition to say where Benn will land (and again, plenty of ball to play).

But my gut tells me he's a complimentary wing. To Spiff's point Bridges was that kind of guy too, but he had two years of elite shooting and his length and defense were elite and he was always a positive A:TO player - so he went 10th. I think there's only so much Benn can do this year to get closer to that level (I mean, he's not going to grow his wingspan four inches).

If Benn shows continued growth in his shot creation and gets his FTR back to his freshman level and gets his three point shooting back up towards 40% then top ten is possibly within reach. But again - it depends on the quality of the guys in this class as much as it depends on his own performance.

For what it's worth, Sam Vecinie from The Athletic (an NBA draft ace) has Benn going 11th.