Bear Down Wildcats

My point about Terry scoring with volume:

I don't suggest that Terry take 13 attempts a game like Mathurin, but he does need to be a more dangerous scorer in order to 1) prove he's a shot maker for NBA scouts (which we've heard in draft analysis repeatedly), and 2) reach his full potential as a player, as he's a more impactful player for the team if he's a more impactful scorer and he's a more dangerous individual playmaker if defenders have to respect his shot and the pressure he can put on the rim.

Forecasting Dalen's destiny as just a 3&D player undersells his playmaking and athleticism. You'd hope that Terry can develop into more of a Will Barton, Khris Middleton, Josh Giddey role where he can be a secondary playmaker that keeps the offense unpredictable and can score from outside and at the rim.

Merkin wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 2:19 pm

Jefe wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 2:06 pm

YoDeFoe wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 12:02 pm Losing Terry, if that's what it is, will be the toughest "gone too soon to the NBA" since...?

For me it would be up there with Zeke, Nico, Rawle, and Stanley. I really wanted 1 more year of each.

I was glad to see Nico go. Most disappointing PG since Shakur and Nico is already out of the league and playing in Europe.

Marcus Williams also comes to mind, although I thought that Lute told him not to come back if memory serves.

In retrospect, Nick Johnson should have stayed another year. Leaving early did not help him at all. Michael Wright too, RIP.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 2:11 pm GJ actually never formally played with TJ unless you count practice.

Thanks, I stand corrected. I was thinking Brandon Ashley. Get those 2 mixed up since neither seemed happy at Arizona.

I always thought some of that was just his affect. Also, obligatory mention of how his freak broken foot cost us and him an undefeated national championship season.

Brandon's happy face:



Brandon's angry face:



Brandon's pensive face:



Brandon laughing:



Brandon crying (on the inside):



He always was one of those poker faced players who didn't show much.

I dont think Terry should come in expecting to be a primary ball handler. As I have said before, hes a connector, a multiplier, and those guys are secondary ball handlers, with the ability to attack and run offense on the second or third side of the floor. Can be tasked to initiate with the bench units, ect.

If I am drafting Dalen, I want him on the floor to bridge those gaps, much like he did last season. Quick decisions, quick passes, quick reads, drive and kick, moving the ball, pushing the ball ahead, attacking closeouts, ect. That all plays into his skillset. So while he might handle the ball a bit more this season in Tucson, if he comes back, thats his value in my mind. Thats also Kerr's value, and the two of them together make things easier for guys who can get buckets.

So how is the team which drafts him going to use him? How do they see him fitting next to their pieces? What is the developmental plan for him? Its a really difficult thing to project and that is what I would want to know from any team willing to select me in round 1 this year. He is far from a finished product and needs to be put in a position to succeed AND develop

Tick tock, tick tock…

Not sure if a last minute decision makes it more or less likely that he’s going pro. Probably means he’s getting some mixed signals.

I’m sure he has read some of the top 20 crazy talk predictions like the rest of us.

I say he’s gone because I’m usually wrong.


But seriously, our program doesn’t have a good track record of players staying when it was close.

EastCoastCat wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 10:36 am
But seriously, our program doesn’t have a good track record of players staying when it was close.

100%

Agree completely, but I’ve been told this is a misperception. And that other programs are impacted just as much. UNC and ucla are two recent examples of Final Four teams that kept all (or almost all) of their key players the following season.

TucsonClip wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 12:04 am I dont think Terry should come in expecting to be a primary ball handler. As I have said before, hes a connector, a multiplier, and those guys are secondary ball handlers, with the ability to attack and run offense on the second or third side of the floor. Can be tasked to initiate with the bench units, ect.

If I am drafting Dalen, I want him on the floor to bridge those gaps, much like he did last season. Quick decisions, quick passes, quick reads, drive and kick, moving the ball, pushing the ball ahead, attacking closeouts, ect. That all plays into his skillset. So while he might handle the ball a bit more this season in Tucson, if he comes back, thats his value in my mind. Thats also Kerr's value, and the two of them together make things easier for guys who can get buckets.

So how is the team which drafts him going to use him? How do they see him fitting next to their pieces? What is the developmental plan for him? Its a really difficult thing to project and that is what I would want to know from any team willing to select me in round 1 this year. He is far from a finished product and needs to be put in a position to succeed AND develop

Thanks for your post, your knowledge is always an asset.

It's why I wonder if returning helps or hurts his development strictly from the NBA perspective. I know others disagree, but to me, his NBA future is largely predicated on him being a similar role as last year.

Low usage rate, just around 14.

Good assist % for that usage, over 22.

Doesn't shoot a ton but 36% from 3 and climbing says he can make the open shot.

All that says he's a 4th or 5th wheel that offers the open shot making you want from that role, plus better distribution than you expect from that role. Add in plus D and that's how I see an NBA team looking to use him.

So does returning generally develop him or drive him further than his future role? I tossed out RoCo, or maybe he's striving to be a better passing Jae Crowder. That's how I see the NBA wanting him.

So we will know 100% by tomorrow?

Expect the Tweet sometime Wednesday afternoon.

As much as I want him to come back, I am confident he will make the best decision for his future. He has everything well thought out, saying he is looking for a first round guarantee or will be coming back for one more year. If he can get that guarantee, I wish him nothing but future success. He has acquitted himself very well as a true Wildcat.

BBQ wildcat wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 12:23 pm As much as I want him to come back, I am confident he will make the best decision for his future. He has everything well thought out, saying he is looking for a first round guarantee or will be coming back for one more year. If he can get that guarantee, I wish him nothing but future success. He has acquitted himself very well as a true Wildcat.

I don't expect him back at all, the longer it waits, the more likely things are looking that teams are really taking an interest to him.

But a Wildcat for life even if he does go. Always a fan favorite. Good luck DT!

Crazy. Now I’m think it’s 60/40 he’s coming back.

DT a forward? Since when?

Maybe he’s coming back. Not sure a Pacers workout is gonna tip the scales for him since their only first round pick is at #7

Givony's new mock has him going #27 to Miami.

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 5:46 am Givony's new mock has him going #27 to Miami.

Well, Givony’s not doing us any favors.

This updated mock has Dalen going #22 to Memphis, https://bleacherreport.com/articles/295 ... t-holmgren

We never get nice things...

Merkin wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 9:36 pm DT a forward? Since when?

Not that SF vs SG matters much, but with his size and length, he's fine as a SF.

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 5:46 am Givony's new mock has him going #27 to Miami.

losing DT and missing on Miller is going to be a tough 1-2 punch over the next 36 hours…brutal. not many available studs in the portal too

2022 NBA Draft: Seven players facing tough stay-or-go decisions before the NCAA deadline to withdraw Wednesday
By Kyle Boone
58s ago
•
5 min read
Following weeks of pre-draft preparation for 2022 NBA prospects -- including private workouts, G League Elite camp and the the NBA Draft Combine -- underclassmen in the draft are now met with the NCAA's withdrawal deadline fast approaching on Wednesday at 11:59 p.m. ET. It's expected to be busy on the decision front as on-the-fence players make their final decisions.

We've already seen some major names come off the board and decide to either return to school or stay in the draft and more are coming soon. Stanford wing Harrison Ingram, a projected first-rounder, is one such name that surprised some, announcing last week he was withdrawing from the draft and returning as a sophomore to Stanford in 2022-23. Louisiana Tech big man Kenny Lofton Jr. gave us another stunner in a different direction, as the 19-year-old big who was also in the transfer portal fully committed to staying in the draft after strong showings at the G League Elite Camp and then the Draft Combine.

Still, there are plenty of consequential decisions lurking out there likely to come in a matter of hours or days. The NBA has its own separate withdrawal deadline for early entrants that is slated for June 13 at 5 p.m. ET, but in year's past almost every underclassmen has decided at or before the NCAA's own deadline -- which means the next few days could be especially noisy.

As we stare down the deadline, here are seven prospects who have yet to decide their stay-or-go fate facing very tough decisions.

Caleb Houstan, Moussa Diabate (Michigan)
There's been buzz for weeks that Houstan may be leaning in one particular direction here after he declined an invite to the NBA Draft Combine, with rumors rocking around that he may have a promise late in the first round. For someone who probably needed a strong Combine to really move up boards, the rumors certainly make a lot of sense.

But Houstan has not hinted one way or another about his decision, even if his maneuvering around the Combine leads one to speculate in one direction. For Michigan, it's probably fool's gold to put too much stock into anything at this point, but history suggests the little things he's been doing will lead one way or another to him remaining in the draft.

Diabate is another Michigan player with a very challenging choice here. Houstan's decision seems more cut and dry -- if he's a first-rounder, it'd make sense for him to go -- but Diabate's is one that seems less certain. He's not a first-rounder right now, but he's had a good few weeks of the pre-draft process. And no decision for the draft is obviously made in a vacuum, either. Diabate has been very active in the last few weeks working out for teams, and while that's exactly what the draft process is for, it wouldn't be surprising if Michigan wound up losing both Houstan and Diabate.

Kris Murray (Iowa)
In slightly more positive Big Ten news, Murray was one of two combine invites who declined to attend -- along with the aforementioned Houstan -- with speculation stemming from that decision swarming that he may be returning to Iowa.

Murray had a solid sophomore season with the Hawkeyes this past season emerging from a bit player to a rotation player and has physical tools and game to eventually be considered a first-rounder. But he may be best served returning to college for at least one more season to prove with NBA value in an expanded role, which he'd likely get with brother Keegan leaving for a spot likely in this year's lottery.

Julian Strawther, Drew Timme (Gonzaga)
Gonzaga is losing Chet Holmgren but still awaiting decisions from both Julian Strawther and Drew Timme as the deadline approaches. The former probably has the toughest decision, as he's considered a late first or early second round prospect. After averaging nearly 12 points and shooting 36.5% from 3-point range last season, he profiles as an interesting NBA role player should he go.

Both Strawther and Timme have real appeal in the NIL market, though, with Timme being arguably the most recognizable name in college hoops and Strawther, should he go back to school, possessing potential to be a true breakout star in college hoops next season with a bigger role.

Trevor Keels (Duke)
Stay, become the potential No. 1 option for a top-10 team while developing into a potential lottery pick. Or leave and settle for being picked somewhere between 25 and 40. There lies the battle Keels is probably weighing right now. Could go from role player to star for Duke and first-year head coach Jon Scheyer but could also stay in the draft and possibly get selected late in the first round.

I've made the case previously that returning to school is probably best for Keels, who could in an expanded role showcase his versatile game and take his talents to the NBA in a 2023 draft where he may be a top-20 lock. But there's not really a clear choice here between the two. With Duke enrolling four five-stars and reportedly in the mix to land star transfer A.J. Green, the appeal to possibly be a first-rounder is a tough one to pass on.

Dalen Terry (Arizona)
The draft range on Arizona's Dalen Terry is increasingly one of the more tougher-to-pin than almost any prospect in this draft. Could be a top-20 pick, could go outside the top 40 and neither would surprise me. Hence the conundrum.

Terry was great in his role with the Wildcats last season as a role player who rebounded, nailed 3-pointers and carried a small burden as a playmaker. But Arizona was loaded last season. The production we saw was overall pretty limited, even if he made 37 starts in 37 games. (That's what can happen when you play next to two potential first-rounders.)

My hunch is that he's a first round pick if he stays in the draft. But I also suspect returning to college may thrust him into a starring role at Arizona, at which point his stock could skyrocket for 2023 (similar to how I view Keels). He's working out for the Pacers on Tuesday before likely doing his final contemplation on staying or going.

CBS Mock does not have Dalen going 1st round.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2022 ... -top-five/

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 10:59 am CBS Mock does not have Dalen going 1st round.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2022 ... -top-five/

Choo and others: it's feeling pretty obvious that he's 50/50 to go in the first round. Not a lock, but not an impossibility either. I don't know what degree of assurance Dalen is looking for here. Is rolling the dice on the draft right now a better play than returning to AZ and being our leader and star (and recipient of countless accolades) next season? If he improves even marginally next season at AZ, he's a lock for the first round.

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 10:59 am CBS Mock does not have Dalen going 1st round.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2022 ... -top-five/

Just hard to know. Picks 25, 26 and 28 are all basically the same role as Terry. Meaning it comes down to who they prefer to fill that need.

Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 11:06 am

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 10:59 am CBS Mock does not have Dalen going 1st round.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2022 ... -top-five/

Choo and others: it's feeling pretty obvious that he's 50/50 to go in the first round. Not a lock, but not an impossibility either. I don't know what degree of assurance Dalen is looking for here. Is rolling the dice on the draft right now a better play than returning to AZ and being our leader and star (and recipient of countless accolades) next season? If he improves even marginally next season at AZ, he's a lock for the first round.

I'd put his priorities differently, in that it matters what teams tell him his stock will be next year just as much.

His factors are where he is vs how much that can improve next year. So, it matters where teams see him but it matters just as much where they see his ceiling.

I'll also say he needs more than a marginal jump to secure a 1st round pick next year. He has an expanded role and needs to show out in that to a good degree. As in, he has to keep or improve his shooting %'s at a much higher volume while developing his body and continuing to do all the little things.

Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 11:06 am

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 10:59 am CBS Mock does not have Dalen going 1st round.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2022 ... -top-five/

Choo and others: it's feeling pretty obvious that he's 50/50 to go in the first round. Not a lock, but not an impossibility either. I don't know what degree of assurance Dalen is looking for here. Is rolling the dice on the draft right now a better play than returning to AZ and being our leader and star (and recipient of countless accolades) next season? If he improves even marginally next season at AZ, he's a lock for the first round.

If someone gives him a guarantee he'll go. If not then solid chance he'll stay. Not sure if anyone will give him that guarantee.

I feel like I've heard Choo say that for months now.....

Some people may just want to chill out and let what happens happen....

Alieberman wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 11:25 am I feel like I've heard Choo say that for months now.....

Some people may just want to chill out and let what happens happen....

Are you new here?

Lol we'll find out soon either way.

With DT, preseason ranking: 10-15

Without: 15-20

Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 12:19 pm With DT, preseason ranking: 10-15

Without: 15-20

DT is such a key guy for us - with him, I think we are a legit top 10 team and have a real chance to compete for a FF. Without him, it's starting to feel like somewhat of a rebuilding year for us - just don't see enough high level talent to where top 10/FF is a possibility, particularly given that the number of high level guards/wings left in the portal is pretty limited.

goslingswagg wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 12:32 pm

Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 12:19 pm With DT, preseason ranking: 10-15

Without: 15-20

DT is such a key guy for us - with him, I think we are a legit top 10 team and have a real chance to compete for a FF. Without him, it's starting to feel like somewhat of a rebuilding year for us - just don't see enough high level talent to where top 10/FF is a possibility, particularly given that the number of high level guards/wings left in the portal is pretty limited.

If it was a player like Benn I might agree with you. I love DT but he will not make or break us. Definitely won't be a rebuilding year.

EastCoastCat wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 12:41 pm

goslingswagg wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 12:32 pm

Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 12:19 pm With DT, preseason ranking: 10-15

Without: 15-20

DT is such a key guy for us - with him, I think we are a legit top 10 team and have a real chance to compete for a FF. Without him, it's starting to feel like somewhat of a rebuilding year for us - just don't see enough high level talent to where top 10/FF is a possibility, particularly given that the number of high level guards/wings left in the portal is pretty limited.

If it was a player like Benn I might agree with you. I love DT but he will not make or break us. Definitely won't be a rebuilding year.

It changes the composition significantly. I've said you need 2 pros to contend for a NC. Veesaar is one. Terry would be a second...without him, I won't say rebuilding, but a team that lacks the top end talent to go all the way.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 12:46 pm

EastCoastCat wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 12:41 pm

goslingswagg wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 12:32 pm

Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 12:19 pm With DT, preseason ranking: 10-15

Without: 15-20

DT is such a key guy for us - with him, I think we are a legit top 10 team and have a real chance to compete for a FF. Without him, it's starting to feel like somewhat of a rebuilding year for us - just don't see enough high level talent to where top 10/FF is a possibility, particularly given that the number of high level guards/wings left in the portal is pretty limited.

If it was a player like Benn I might agree with you. I love DT but he will not make or break us. Definitely won't be a rebuilding year.

It changes the composition significantly. I've said you need 2 pros to contend for a NC. Veesaar is one. Terry would be a second...without him, I won't say rebuilding, but a team that lacks the top end talent to go all the way.

100% agree with you on this Spiff - Terry definitely has that kind of impact imo. And when I say rebuilding - don't think we will be bad, but just see us as more of a backend top 25 team that isn't necessarily "in it" like we would be with Terry.

EastCoastCat wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 12:41 pm
If it was a player like Benn I might agree with you. I love DT but he will not make or break us. Definitely won't be a rebuilding year.

Disagree. DT was our glue guy this past season. His value doesn't come across statistically. It comes across more just watching them from game to game. He makes key passes and shots all...the...time. You just can't replace that very easily.

I think DT's decision strongly impacts our prospects for next season.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 12:46 pm

EastCoastCat wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 12:41 pm

goslingswagg wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 12:32 pm

Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 12:19 pm With DT, preseason ranking: 10-15

Without: 15-20

DT is such a key guy for us - with him, I think we are a legit top 10 team and have a real chance to compete for a FF. Without him, it's starting to feel like somewhat of a rebuilding year for us - just don't see enough high level talent to where top 10/FF is a possibility, particularly given that the number of high level guards/wings left in the portal is pretty limited.

If it was a player like Benn I might agree with you. I love DT but he will not make or break us. Definitely won't be a rebuilding year.

It changes the composition significantly. I've said you need 2 pros to contend for a NC. Veesaar is one. Terry would be a second...without him, I won't say rebuilding, but a team that lacks the top end talent to go all the way.

I never said without him we were a contender so no argument from me. I just don't think we will be in a rebuilding year which to me means at or slightly above .500 team.

Oh and Ballo, AT and Kriisa will all be pro's - just not NBA pro's.

EastCoastCat wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 1:08 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 12:46 pm

EastCoastCat wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 12:41 pm

goslingswagg wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 12:32 pm

Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 12:19 pm With DT, preseason ranking: 10-15

Without: 15-20

DT is such a key guy for us - with him, I think we are a legit top 10 team and have a real chance to compete for a FF. Without him, it's starting to feel like somewhat of a rebuilding year for us - just don't see enough high level talent to where top 10/FF is a possibility, particularly given that the number of high level guards/wings left in the portal is pretty limited.

If it was a player like Benn I might agree with you. I love DT but he will not make or break us. Definitely won't be a rebuilding year.

It changes the composition significantly. I've said you need 2 pros to contend for a NC. Veesaar is one. Terry would be a second...without him, I won't say rebuilding, but a team that lacks the top end talent to go all the way.

I never said without him we were a contender so no argument from me. I just don't think we will be in a rebuilding year which to me means at or slightly above .500 team.

Oh and Ballo, AT and Kriisa will all be pro's - just not NBA pro's.

gotcha - yeah I meant rebuilding in the sense that we aren't a legit FF or title contender.

Going to be pretty hard to make outside of the first weekend without more stronger athletic wings and guards.

officially staying in the draft...wish him the best of luck. this is killer for next year - let's see what magic CTL can pull out

goslingswagg wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 3:34 pm officially staying in the draft...wish him the best of luck. this is killer for next year - let's see what magic CTL can pull out

Well shit…

As I said, we never get nice things.

Good luck Dalen!

Hope it works out

That is going to be hard but I am going to make a prediction. Adama Ball will make more three pointers next year than DT made this year. If you recall Ball started to have a bigger role towards the end of the year. He hit .471 from 3 (very limited sample size) and had eFG of .630. Where I think losing DT will hurt the most is in turnovers and rebounds and we need a defensive stopper. Points will not be the issue. Hard to believe anyone would give DT a first round guarantee with only 28 threes in a year but he has the intangibles and works hard..

I wonder if Lloyd is on the horn to Shane Nowell. Going to need some bodies in the backcourt.

Yet another instance of Arizona losing a key player unexpectedly. No one saw this coming in March. Oh well. Weakens our prospects for next season, and as others have noted, it's a bit of a rebuild now.

Best of luck, DT. We hardly got to know ya.

Shit, who would have thought we would lose 3 to the draft this year?