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Re: The 2021-2022 Season Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:00 am
by Spaceman Spiff
Olsondogg wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:02 am
Merkin wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:59 am
Olsondogg wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:48 am Just fun to watch
It really is. Like someone posted above, this is the most fun watching the Cats than I have had in a long time.

Just can't figure out why Lloyd can't pull in any recruits while winning, yet Fisch excels at recruiting while losing.
I honestly wouldn’t worry about Lloyd on the recruiting trail, and enjoy the product now. Recruits are pieces of a puzzle, not the solution.

Even the most ardent Miller fans love what they are seeing. It’s fun.
I was a Miller fan. Recruiting is one component of the picture and obviously important for continued success. I'd go a little further than just a piece, there's a mininum level of talent you need to do things like make a Final Four or win a NC, which is our real goal.

That said, there's also a coaching component. I thought Miller was good, but it's inarguable Lloyd has been good coaching this group. Even as a Miller fan, it would be disingenous to suggest otherwise. If Miller had this team in the place Lloyd does, I'd say he was doing a great job. Thus, Lloyd is doing a great job.

Recruiting still matters because you don't have long term excellence without bringing in talent. It's just a separate discussion. It's possible to appreciate what this team is doing, give Lloyd full credit for his role in it and still have an eye to the future. Both exist and matter, and there's no reason to be overdramatic about either, IMO.

Re: The 2021-2022 Season Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:02 am
by 1stNGrant Frys
WildcatStunner wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:07 am I have to remember that when Miller first arrived he re-recruited Solomon hill and pulled DWill and a few others. He had some misses early on with Josh Shelby and Doron Lamb. But he did recruit some high level guys that didn’t happen to pan out (Josiah and Sidiki come to mind).

Long story short, let’s see what he pulls fo 2023.
They just didn't not "pan out", they were huge negatives and major headcases.
I remember Sidiki was a bad egg from day one, and now he is literally in prison. Last news I read about Turner some years ago, he was moving around 3rd tier foreign teams, and openly regretted his attitude and missed opportunities.

It took awhile for Miller to move on from his crushes on bad boys.

Re: The 2021-2022 Season Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:03 am
by RawleArenas
In regards to recruiting, I've gone on the record saying that Lloyd has been extremely disappointing. Bruce Pascoe said that Lloyd is waiting till after the season to push the gas pedal, after he determines which players are staying. I have not heard anything from Lloyd on this, but I'm almost certain that he understands how serious the stakes are, so we'll see.

To be fair, one thing people miss out on this team is not that they're just talented, but they are the sum of Miller's maturity as a coach. Everything that Miller learned about program building, roster management, and juggling egos was put into last years team. I mean if we had both Brown's and Batcho frorm last year, even without Akinjo, this team would have been downright menacing. I've made this point in previous posts, but Miller got to the point that he was able to put together championship rosters in one year, a skill 99 percent of coaches don't have. That being said, I am excited to see that Lloyd was able to take Miller's value meal of international players and supersize it. It's been a joy to watch. It feels bad to say this, but it almost makes you think that if Miller was Lloyd's recruiting coordinator, UofA would be unstoppable for years to come. Lloyd's systems and Miller's scouting/recruiting go together like peanut butter and jelly.

This team reminds me of the 2001 squad. I remember in the Final Four against Michigan where Jim Nantz said that you could almost make the case that every player in the starting five could earn player of the game honors. Billy Packer followed by stating that's the reason why they were going to play in the national championship. You get the feeling from watching them play that this team has a similar ceiling. Every player in the rotation has the ability to be a gamechanger. If we play the way we're capable of we have a strong chance to be the #1 overall seed. Even Zag fans are worried about the possibility.

Re: The 2021-2022 Season Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:07 am
by Olsondogg
Also wanna mention how great the bench has been this year. Fun to hear them go crazy during the games.

Re: The 2021-2022 Season Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:08 am
by UAEebs86
Olsondogg wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:07 am Also wanna mention how great the bench has been this year. Fun to hear them go crazy during the games.
The Gumbies 2.0?

Re: The 2021-2022 Season Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:20 am
by dmjcat
RawleArenas wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:03 am In regards to recruiting, I've gone on the record saying that Lloyd has been extremely disappointing. Bruce Pascoe said that Lloyd is waiting till after the season to push the gas pedal, after he determines which players are staying. I have not heard anything from Lloyd on this, but I'm almost certain that he understands how serious the stakes are, so we'll see.

To be fair, one thing people miss out on this team is not that they're just talented, but they are the sum of Miller's maturity as a coach. Everything that Miller learned about program building, roster management, and juggling egos was put into last years team. I mean if we had both Brown's and Batcho frorm last year, even without Akinjo, this team would have been downright menacing. I've made this point in previous posts, but Miller got to the point that he was able to put together championship rosters in one year, a skill 99 percent of coaches don't have. That being said, I am excited to see that Lloyd was able to take Miller's value meal of international players and supersize it. It's been a joy to watch. It feels bad to say this, but it almost makes you think that if Miller was Lloyd's recruiting coordinator, UofA would be unstoppable for years to come. Lloyd's systems and Miller's scouting/recruiting go together like peanut butter and jelly.

This team reminds me of the 2001 squad. I remember in the Final Four against Michigan where Jim Nantz said that you could almost make the case that every player in the starting five could earn player of the game honors. Billy Packer followed by stating that's the reason why they were going to play in the national championship. You get the feeling from watching them play that this team has a similar ceiling. Every player in the rotation has the ability to be a gamechanger. If we play the way we're capable of we have a strong chance to be the #1 overall seed. Even Zag fans are worried about the possibility.
I think its way too early to judge Coach Lloyds recruiting prowess.

For one thing we still have the potential NCAA/IARP sanctions hanging over our heads. If we get the same general punishment that has been doled out so far we are probably looking at scholarship reductions for several years (2?). If that ends up being the case and only Mathurin leaves this year we will be one over the scholarship limit for 22-23.........hence Lloyd can't be handing out scholarships for the 22 class.

I believe the 23 recruiting class will be far more indicative of Lloyds recruiting skills as the NCAA/IARP mess should be resolved by then and CTL will know where he stands and how many scholies he has available.

Re: The 2021-2022 Season Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:41 am
by PennZona20
Spaceman Spiff wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:22 pm
84Cat wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 4:58 pm
I'm still not convinced this was more than just a fever dream.

Image


Just think, the beavs got as far last year as Sean Miller ever has in March. God bless this crazy tournament.

Re: The 2021-2022 Season Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:48 am
by Olsondogg
And tinkle cashed in on that success that is the biggest albatross for Miller. Go figure.

Re: The 2021-2022 Season Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:53 am
by ZagCatFan
Similar discussion about recruiting going on on Gonzaga board…..where are the recruits?

Interesting article in The Athletic today about transfer portal…coaches seem to be willing to hold positions open for transfers instead of rushing out to grab freshmen. Could be the new normal.

Happy to see CTL feeling the love from Cat fans. He was important block in GU foundation.

Dream final Gonzaga vs Arizona

Re: The 2021-2022 Season Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:54 am
by MountainCat
Any word on Tubelis’s ankle? Looks like while sitting on the bench with the boot on, he was having issues putting weight on it. Hope not. Probably will be sitting out for the California game and rest for the UCLA game at best.

Re: The 2021-2022 Season Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:58 am
by prh
I suspect that we are going to need to recalibrate our perception of recruiting. We saw Sean shifting towards lower rated guys who would stick around and build a steady program. Yes, he was somewhat forced to do it, but I think we're going to see a lot of that and it's not going to be as useful to judge incoming classes before they've gotten here.

On another note, overshadowed by Ballo is Pelle having a tremendous game, and he has been steadily improving lately. If he continues, that's going to be absolutely huge for us. 13 points, 6 assists, 3 blocks, and ZERO turnovers.

Re: The 2021-2022 Season Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 11:03 am
by Spaceman Spiff
ZagCatFan wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:53 am Similar discussion about recruiting going on on Gonzaga board…..where are the recruits?

Interesting article in The Athletic today about transfer portal…coaches seem to be willing to hold positions open for transfers instead of rushing out to grab freshmen. Could be the new normal.

Happy to see CTL feeling the love from Cat fans. He was important block in GU foundation.

Dream final Gonzaga vs Arizona
Welcome to the board.

Interesting recruiting parallel. I think it parallels in terms of both teams having highly talented guys who are likely to leave as well. Thus, both fan bases feeling a little worry about who the next man up is.

NIL and immediate eligibility are both significant market factors. I could see some coaches looking there, but I'd be hesitant to rely on transfers as the prime source of incoming talent vs simply augmenting. Reason being, the really high level guys who can put you in that natty realm generally are more likely to be one and dones than transfers.

Re: The 2021-2022 Season Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:44 pm
by Beachcat97
ZagCatFan wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:53 am Similar discussion about recruiting going on on Gonzaga board…..where are the recruits?

Interesting article in The Athletic today about transfer portal…coaches seem to be willing to hold positions open for transfers instead of rushing out to grab freshmen. Could be the new normal.

Happy to see CTL feeling the love from Cat fans. He was important block in GU foundation.

Dream final Gonzaga vs Arizona
Welcome, ZagCat!

If Gonzaga plays AZ in the national title game, both coaches are gonna need a stiff drink before tip. And at halftime!

Re: The 2021-2022 Season Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:48 pm
by Longhorned
prh wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:58 am On another note, overshadowed by Ballo is Pelle having a tremendous game, and he has been steadily improving lately. If he continues, that's going to be absolutely huge for us. 13 points, 6 assists, 3 blocks, and ZERO turnovers.
I admit it's been hard to watch Pelle while my expectations for this team have grown. He's been cringeworthy, but less and less so. And last night, he registered zero on my cringe-o-meter. He showed mastery of his place on both ends. And he played like a tough son of a bitch.

Re: The 2021-2022 Season Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:50 pm
by Spaceman Spiff
Beachcat97 wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:44 pm
ZagCatFan wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:53 am Similar discussion about recruiting going on on Gonzaga board…..where are the recruits?

Interesting article in The Athletic today about transfer portal…coaches seem to be willing to hold positions open for transfers instead of rushing out to grab freshmen. Could be the new normal.

Happy to see CTL feeling the love from Cat fans. He was important block in GU foundation.

Dream final Gonzaga vs Arizona
Welcome, ZagCat!

If Gonzaga plays AZ in the national title game, both coaches are gonna need a stiff drink before tip. And at halftime!
Hey, it's his first post, no Mark Few DUI jokes yet. Let him settle in.

Re: The 2021-2022 Season Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:54 pm
by Beachcat97
Spaceman Spiff wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:50 pm
Beachcat97 wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:44 pm
ZagCatFan wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:53 am Similar discussion about recruiting going on on Gonzaga board…..where are the recruits?

Interesting article in The Athletic today about transfer portal…coaches seem to be willing to hold positions open for transfers instead of rushing out to grab freshmen. Could be the new normal.

Happy to see CTL feeling the love from Cat fans. He was important block in GU foundation.

Dream final Gonzaga vs Arizona
Welcome, ZagCat!

If Gonzaga plays AZ in the national title game, both coaches are gonna need a stiff drink before tip. And at halftime!
Hey, it's his first post, no Mark Few DUI jokes yet. Let him settle in.
Man, it's bad that I'd already forgotten about that.

I have mad respect for Few and always enjoy playing Gonzaga. Aside from us, they've been the real standard bearer in the west for the past decade or so.

Re: The 2021-2022 Season Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 1:04 pm
by Merkin
Longhorned wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:48 pm
prh wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:58 am On another note, overshadowed by Ballo is Pelle having a tremendous game, and he has been steadily improving lately. If he continues, that's going to be absolutely huge for us. 13 points, 6 assists, 3 blocks, and ZERO turnovers.
I admit it's been hard to watch Pelle while my expectations for this team have grown. He's been cringeworthy, but less and less so. And last night, he registered zero on my cringe-o-meter. He showed mastery of his place on both ends. And he played like a tough son of a bitch.

Same. Seems his foot injury took longer to heal than they let on. He actually looked quick the 2 drives to the basket for easy layups.

He was the one I worried about the most getting reinjured.

Re: The 2021-2022 Season Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 1:13 pm
by PennZona20
RawleArenas wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:03 am In regards to recruiting, I've gone on the record saying that Lloyd has been extremely disappointing. Bruce Pascoe said that Lloyd is waiting till after the season to push the gas pedal, after he determines which players are staying. I have not heard anything from Lloyd on this, but I'm almost certain that he understands how serious the stakes are, so we'll see.

To be fair, one thing people miss out on this team is not that they're just talented, but they are the sum of Miller's maturity as a coach. Everything that Miller learned about program building, roster management, and juggling egos was put into last years team. I mean if we had both Brown's and Batcho frorm last year, even without Akinjo, this team would have been downright menacing. I've made this point in previous posts, but Miller got to the point that he was able to put together championship rosters in one year, a skill 99 percent of coaches don't have. That being said, I am excited to see that Lloyd was able to take Miller's value meal of international players and supersize it. It's been a joy to watch. It feels bad to say this, but it almost makes you think that if Miller was Lloyd's recruiting coordinator, UofA would be unstoppable for years to come. Lloyd's systems and Miller's scouting/recruiting go together like peanut butter and jelly.

This team reminds me of the 2001 squad. I remember in the Final Four against Michigan where Jim Nantz said that you could almost make the case that every player in the starting five could earn player of the game honors. Billy Packer followed by stating that's the reason why they were going to play in the national championship. You get the feeling from watching them play that this team has a similar ceiling. Every player in the rotation has the ability to be a gamechanger. If we play the way we're capable of we have a strong chance to be the #1 overall seed. Even Zag fans are worried about the possibility.

Comparing this team to 01 and it’s almost a wash.

Gardner v Kerr - gotta give advantage Gardner dude was such a good defender for his size and NEVER got tired.

Benn v Gil - i would say Benn (we are only talking AT UA for the one year. Benn is legit a NPOY candidate and I’m not sure Gil was even the best player on the team (Gil could have nights though where the ceiling was just as high)

RJ v Terry - i love Terry but RJ is the answer here all day. They are close in D but RJ was a much more potent scorer even if Terry does a little bit more of everything than RJ did.

Wright v Tubelis - this one is tough. In todays game I’d rather have Tubelis as we don’t need a high/low post game w two guys in the paint always like we had w Woods and Wright but Wright was our most consistent threat in 01. He’s the guy we went to w two Collins twins draped all over him in the final moments. For each team , I’d call this a push, maybe slightest of edges to Tubelis.

Woods v C-Lo - another tough one. I’d prob lean slightly to Woods as he really did take over the title game and keep us in it and he had a few double digit block games, which C-Lo can’t quite say he has. This one is very close as well.

Bench - maybe this is recency bias after last night but i think this bench mob is better than 01 by a decent margin. I loved Walton but Anderson RS that year and Edgerson was a banger but basically he, wessel, Frazier and Hanour were just bodies to steal a few minutes for the starters to rest. Our bench this year legit has 3 guys who can give u double digit points on any given night. And Kier is a well rounded bucket getter.

So you add it up and I’d give PG and C slightly to 01, SF decently to 01; but PF and SG slightly to 21, and bench decently to 21. Pretty equal teams in terms of talent imo.

Re: The 2021-2022 Season Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 1:20 pm
by PennZona20
ZagCatFan wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:53 am Similar discussion about recruiting going on on Gonzaga board…..where are the recruits?

Interesting article in The Athletic today about transfer portal…coaches seem to be willing to hold positions open for transfers instead of rushing out to grab freshmen. Could be the new normal.

Happy to see CTL feeling the love from Cat fans. He was important block in GU foundation.

Dream final Gonzaga vs Arizona

They both need to keep winning so the committee can’t put us in same bracket out west. Force them to give us both 1 seeds and let the best resume stay out West.

Re: The 2021-2022 Season Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 1:23 pm
by PennZona20
prh wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:58 am I suspect that we are going to need to recalibrate our perception of recruiting. We saw Sean shifting towards lower rated guys who would stick around and build a steady program. Yes, he was somewhat forced to do it, but I think we're going to see a lot of that and it's not going to be as useful to judge incoming classes before they've gotten here.

On another note, overshadowed by Ballo is Pelle having a tremendous game, and he has been steadily improving lately. If he continues, that's going to be absolutely huge for us. 13 points, 6 assists, 3 blocks, and ZERO turnovers.
Pelle was huge and made a noticeable difference. Showed a lot of things i wasn’t sure he even had in his bag like the patient drive and dish to Ballo for the and 1. I always worry about injuries and concussions w him when he took the shoulder to the face but he seemed fine. Dude will be very important come March.

Re: The 2021-2022 Season Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 1:38 pm
by Beachcat97
Merkin wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 1:04 pm
Longhorned wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:48 pm
prh wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:58 am On another note, overshadowed by Ballo is Pelle having a tremendous game, and he has been steadily improving lately. If he continues, that's going to be absolutely huge for us. 13 points, 6 assists, 3 blocks, and ZERO turnovers.
I admit it's been hard to watch Pelle while my expectations for this team have grown. He's been cringeworthy, but less and less so. And last night, he registered zero on my cringe-o-meter. He showed mastery of his place on both ends. And he played like a tough son of a bitch.

Same. Seems his foot injury took longer to heal than they let on. He actually looked quick the 2 drives to the basket for easy layups.

He was the one I worried about the most getting reinjured.
If this team gets derailed by a critical injury, as previous AZ teams have, it'll be a really tough pill.

Gotta think the hoops gods are gonna smile again upon us, one of these years.

Re: The 2021-2022 Season Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:28 pm
by EastCoastCat
Longhorned wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:48 pm
prh wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:58 am On another note, overshadowed by Ballo is Pelle having a tremendous game, and he has been steadily improving lately. If he continues, that's going to be absolutely huge for us. 13 points, 6 assists, 3 blocks, and ZERO turnovers.
I admit it's been hard to watch Pelle while my expectations for this team have grown. He's been cringeworthy, but less and less so. And last night, he registered zero on my cringe-o-meter. He showed mastery of his place on both ends. And he played like a tough son of a bitch.
People on this board were saying the same thing about Ballo early on.

It's nice to see both players step up when needed.

Re: The 2021-2022 Season Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:38 pm
by Spaceman Spiff
PennZona20 wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 1:13 pm
RawleArenas wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:03 am In regards to recruiting, I've gone on the record saying that Lloyd has been extremely disappointing. Bruce Pascoe said that Lloyd is waiting till after the season to push the gas pedal, after he determines which players are staying. I have not heard anything from Lloyd on this, but I'm almost certain that he understands how serious the stakes are, so we'll see.

To be fair, one thing people miss out on this team is not that they're just talented, but they are the sum of Miller's maturity as a coach. Everything that Miller learned about program building, roster management, and juggling egos was put into last years team. I mean if we had both Brown's and Batcho frorm last year, even without Akinjo, this team would have been downright menacing. I've made this point in previous posts, but Miller got to the point that he was able to put together championship rosters in one year, a skill 99 percent of coaches don't have. That being said, I am excited to see that Lloyd was able to take Miller's value meal of international players and supersize it. It's been a joy to watch. It feels bad to say this, but it almost makes you think that if Miller was Lloyd's recruiting coordinator, UofA would be unstoppable for years to come. Lloyd's systems and Miller's scouting/recruiting go together like peanut butter and jelly.

This team reminds me of the 2001 squad. I remember in the Final Four against Michigan where Jim Nantz said that you could almost make the case that every player in the starting five could earn player of the game honors. Billy Packer followed by stating that's the reason why they were going to play in the national championship. You get the feeling from watching them play that this team has a similar ceiling. Every player in the rotation has the ability to be a gamechanger. If we play the way we're capable of we have a strong chance to be the #1 overall seed. Even Zag fans are worried about the possibility.

Comparing this team to 01 and it’s almost a wash.

Gardner v Kerr - gotta give advantage Gardner dude was such a good defender for his size and NEVER got tired.

Benn v Gil - i would say Benn (we are only talking AT UA for the one year. Benn is legit a NPOY candidate and I’m not sure Gil was even the best player on the team (Gil could have nights though where the ceiling was just as high)

RJ v Terry - i love Terry but RJ is the answer here all day. They are close in D but RJ was a much more potent scorer even if Terry does a little bit more of everything than RJ did.

Wright v Tubelis - this one is tough. In todays game I’d rather have Tubelis as we don’t need a high/low post game w two guys in the paint always like we had w Woods and Wright but Wright was our most consistent threat in 01. He’s the guy we went to w two Collins twins draped all over him in the final moments. For each team , I’d call this a push, maybe slightest of edges to Tubelis.

Woods v C-Lo - another tough one. I’d prob lean slightly to Woods as he really did take over the title game and keep us in it and he had a few double digit block games, which C-Lo can’t quite say he has. This one is very close as well.

Bench - maybe this is recency bias after last night but i think this bench mob is better than 01 by a decent margin. I loved Walton but Anderson RS that year and Edgerson was a banger but basically he, wessel, Frazier and Hanour were just bodies to steal a few minutes for the starters to rest. Our bench this year legit has 3 guys who can give u double digit points on any given night. And Kier is a well rounded bucket getter.

So you add it up and I’d give PG and C slightly to 01, SF decently to 01; but PF and SG slightly to 21, and bench decently to 21. Pretty equal teams in terms of talent imo.
I thought it was a rule we could only compare teams to 1997?

I'd go 2001 by double digits in a game. I think Woods is comparable to Koloko, with Koloko slightly better as a rim protector but Woods being more of a post threat.

Wright was a rock on D and the glass in a way Tubelis isn't. Tubelis is more explosive on O, but I'd take Wright.

RJ > Terry, that's an easy call.

Gil over Benn. Benn is really good, but Gil had the type of offensive game to be a 30 ppg guy in the NBA and was a high level defender. I'm just not rating any 2 guard in Arizona history over Gil.

Gardner over Kerr. Kerr is good, but Gardner is just a more mature, solid version. Gardner in 2001 is who Kerr might be as a junior or senior.

Bench, Walton just outdoes current. Frankly, Walton is a better type of Dalen Terry. Our current bench has decent players, but Edgerson, Wessel and Frazier are sort of the caliber of player I'd class Ballo, Kier and Larsson as. That's not an insult, as I'm saying they're rotation guys on a potential national runner up who could have easily won it all.

Re: The 2021-2022 Season Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 4:08 pm
by Postmaster
01 all the way.
CLO had a good stretch but now in conference play he can’t stay on the floor.
The only one I might consider is ......nevermind.
I give all 6 categories to 01.
But b-ball was different back then.
Underclassmen didn’t start at Arizona unless they were really good.
Now you hardly have upperclassmen so the youngsters play early.

Re: The 2021-2022 Season Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 4:30 pm
by UAEebs86
Which team gets Duke's refs from the '01 game?

Re: The 2021-2022 Season Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 4:35 pm
by RawleArenas
Spaceman Spiff wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:38 pm
PennZona20 wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 1:13 pm
RawleArenas wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:03 am In regards to recruiting, I've gone on the record saying that Lloyd has been extremely disappointing. Bruce Pascoe said that Lloyd is waiting till after the season to push the gas pedal, after he determines which players are staying. I have not heard anything from Lloyd on this, but I'm almost certain that he understands how serious the stakes are, so we'll see.

To be fair, one thing people miss out on this team is not that they're just talented, but they are the sum of Miller's maturity as a coach. Everything that Miller learned about program building, roster management, and juggling egos was put into last years team. I mean if we had both Brown's and Batcho frorm last year, even without Akinjo, this team would have been downright menacing. I've made this point in previous posts, but Miller got to the point that he was able to put together championship rosters in one year, a skill 99 percent of coaches don't have. That being said, I am excited to see that Lloyd was able to take Miller's value meal of international players and supersize it. It's been a joy to watch. It feels bad to say this, but it almost makes you think that if Miller was Lloyd's recruiting coordinator, UofA would be unstoppable for years to come. Lloyd's systems and Miller's scouting/recruiting go together like peanut butter and jelly.

This team reminds me of the 2001 squad. I remember in the Final Four against Michigan where Jim Nantz said that you could almost make the case that every player in the starting five could earn player of the game honors. Billy Packer followed by stating that's the reason why they were going to play in the national championship. You get the feeling from watching them play that this team has a similar ceiling. Every player in the rotation has the ability to be a gamechanger. If we play the way we're capable of we have a strong chance to be the #1 overall seed. Even Zag fans are worried about the possibility.

Comparing this team to 01 and it’s almost a wash.

Gardner v Kerr - gotta give advantage Gardner dude was such a good defender for his size and NEVER got tired.

Benn v Gil - i would say Benn (we are only talking AT UA for the one year. Benn is legit a NPOY candidate and I’m not sure Gil was even the best player on the team (Gil could have nights though where the ceiling was just as high)

RJ v Terry - i love Terry but RJ is the answer here all day. They are close in D but RJ was a much more potent scorer even if Terry does a little bit more of everything than RJ did.

Wright v Tubelis - this one is tough. In todays game I’d rather have Tubelis as we don’t need a high/low post game w two guys in the paint always like we had w Woods and Wright but Wright was our most consistent threat in 01. He’s the guy we went to w two Collins twins draped all over him in the final moments. For each team , I’d call this a push, maybe slightest of edges to Tubelis.

Woods v C-Lo - another tough one. I’d prob lean slightly to Woods as he really did take over the title game and keep us in it and he had a few double digit block games, which C-Lo can’t quite say he has. This one is very close as well.

Bench - maybe this is recency bias after last night but i think this bench mob is better than 01 by a decent margin. I loved Walton but Anderson RS that year and Edgerson was a banger but basically he, wessel, Frazier and Hanour were just bodies to steal a few minutes for the starters to rest. Our bench this year legit has 3 guys who can give u double digit points on any given night. And Kier is a well rounded bucket getter.

So you add it up and I’d give PG and C slightly to 01, SF decently to 01; but PF and SG slightly to 21, and bench decently to 21. Pretty equal teams in terms of talent imo.
I thought it was a rule we could only compare teams to 1997?

I'd go 2001 by double digits in a game. I think Woods is comparable to Koloko, with Koloko slightly better as a rim protector but Woods being more of a post threat.

Wright was a rock on D and the glass in a way Tubelis isn't. Tubelis is more explosive on O, but I'd take Wright.

RJ > Terry, that's an easy call.

Gil over Benn. Benn is really good, but Gil had the type of offensive game to be a 30 ppg guy in the NBA and was a high level defender. I'm just not rating any 2 guard in Arizona history over Gil.

Gardner over Kerr. Kerr is good, but Gardner is just a more mature, solid version. Gardner in 2001 is who Kerr might be as a junior or senior.

Bench, Walton just outdoes current. Frankly, Walton is a better type of Dalen Terry. Our current bench has decent players, but Edgerson, Wessel and Frazier are sort of the caliber of player I'd class Ballo, Kier and Larsson as. That's not an insult, as I'm saying they're rotation guys on a potential national runner up who could have easily won it all.
I was using the '01 team as a comparison in terms of impact personnel, I wasn't saying they were equivalent or better. But to Postmaster's point , if this team existed in the late 90's era, we'd still have Josh Green, Zeke Nnaji and Nico to complement our starting five. If that were the case, you could absolutely make comparisons to the 2001 team.

Gil was a supernova type player. You could make an argument that he was the most developed player ever to come out of the program, even with DWill and Benn in the discussion. The larger point I was making was that this team will be hard to beat in the tournament if they tighten it up and get focused. We can play a lot of different ways and when we're playing great defense and limit turnovers, we can run over quality, ranked teams.

Re: The 2021-2022 Season Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:39 pm
by TheCat
So UCLA is playing on Saturday and we play on Sunday. Why are we not playing on Saturday giving us two days to prepare instead of one? We could clearly play on Saturday. Seems the PAC would want to schedule it so both had the same rest and practice time.

Re: The 2021-2022 Season Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:43 pm
by Spaceman Spiff
RawleArenas wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 4:35 pm
Spaceman Spiff wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:38 pm
PennZona20 wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 1:13 pm
RawleArenas wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:03 am In regards to recruiting, I've gone on the record saying that Lloyd has been extremely disappointing. Bruce Pascoe said that Lloyd is waiting till after the season to push the gas pedal, after he determines which players are staying. I have not heard anything from Lloyd on this, but I'm almost certain that he understands how serious the stakes are, so we'll see.

To be fair, one thing people miss out on this team is not that they're just talented, but they are the sum of Miller's maturity as a coach. Everything that Miller learned about program building, roster management, and juggling egos was put into last years team. I mean if we had both Brown's and Batcho frorm last year, even without Akinjo, this team would have been downright menacing. I've made this point in previous posts, but Miller got to the point that he was able to put together championship rosters in one year, a skill 99 percent of coaches don't have. That being said, I am excited to see that Lloyd was able to take Miller's value meal of international players and supersize it. It's been a joy to watch. It feels bad to say this, but it almost makes you think that if Miller was Lloyd's recruiting coordinator, UofA would be unstoppable for years to come. Lloyd's systems and Miller's scouting/recruiting go together like peanut butter and jelly.

This team reminds me of the 2001 squad. I remember in the Final Four against Michigan where Jim Nantz said that you could almost make the case that every player in the starting five could earn player of the game honors. Billy Packer followed by stating that's the reason why they were going to play in the national championship. You get the feeling from watching them play that this team has a similar ceiling. Every player in the rotation has the ability to be a gamechanger. If we play the way we're capable of we have a strong chance to be the #1 overall seed. Even Zag fans are worried about the possibility.

Comparing this team to 01 and it’s almost a wash.

Gardner v Kerr - gotta give advantage Gardner dude was such a good defender for his size and NEVER got tired.

Benn v Gil - i would say Benn (we are only talking AT UA for the one year. Benn is legit a NPOY candidate and I’m not sure Gil was even the best player on the team (Gil could have nights though where the ceiling was just as high)

RJ v Terry - i love Terry but RJ is the answer here all day. They are close in D but RJ was a much more potent scorer even if Terry does a little bit more of everything than RJ did.

Wright v Tubelis - this one is tough. In todays game I’d rather have Tubelis as we don’t need a high/low post game w two guys in the paint always like we had w Woods and Wright but Wright was our most consistent threat in 01. He’s the guy we went to w two Collins twins draped all over him in the final moments. For each team , I’d call this a push, maybe slightest of edges to Tubelis.

Woods v C-Lo - another tough one. I’d prob lean slightly to Woods as he really did take over the title game and keep us in it and he had a few double digit block games, which C-Lo can’t quite say he has. This one is very close as well.

Bench - maybe this is recency bias after last night but i think this bench mob is better than 01 by a decent margin. I loved Walton but Anderson RS that year and Edgerson was a banger but basically he, wessel, Frazier and Hanour were just bodies to steal a few minutes for the starters to rest. Our bench this year legit has 3 guys who can give u double digit points on any given night. And Kier is a well rounded bucket getter.

So you add it up and I’d give PG and C slightly to 01, SF decently to 01; but PF and SG slightly to 21, and bench decently to 21. Pretty equal teams in terms of talent imo.
I thought it was a rule we could only compare teams to 1997?

I'd go 2001 by double digits in a game. I think Woods is comparable to Koloko, with Koloko slightly better as a rim protector but Woods being more of a post threat.

Wright was a rock on D and the glass in a way Tubelis isn't. Tubelis is more explosive on O, but I'd take Wright.

RJ > Terry, that's an easy call.

Gil over Benn. Benn is really good, but Gil had the type of offensive game to be a 30 ppg guy in the NBA and was a high level defender. I'm just not rating any 2 guard in Arizona history over Gil.

Gardner over Kerr. Kerr is good, but Gardner is just a more mature, solid version. Gardner in 2001 is who Kerr might be as a junior or senior.

Bench, Walton just outdoes current. Frankly, Walton is a better type of Dalen Terry. Our current bench has decent players, but Edgerson, Wessel and Frazier are sort of the caliber of player I'd class Ballo, Kier and Larsson as. That's not an insult, as I'm saying they're rotation guys on a potential national runner up who could have easily won it all.
I was using the '01 team as a comparison in terms of impact personnel, I wasn't saying they were equivalent or better. But to Postmaster's point , if this team existed in the late 90's era, we'd still have Josh Green, Zeke Nnaji and Nico to complement our starting five. If that were the case, you could absolutely make comparisons to the 2001 team.

Gil was a supernova type player. You could make an argument that he was the most developed player ever to come out of the program, even with DWill and Benn in the discussion. The larger point I was making was that this team will be hard to beat in the tournament if they tighten it up and get focused. We can play a lot of different ways and when we're playing great defense and limit turnovers, we can run over quality, ranked teams.
I wasn't being super serious, please do not take offense. I had hoped my statment that 97 is the only allowed comparison would make it non-serious.

No disrespect.

The GOAT "if it were the 90's" team would be TJ, NJ, Stanley, RHJ, Aaron Gordon, Ashley and Zeus or maybe Nico, Green, Alkins, Simmons, Dylan Smith, Lauri, Zeke and Ayton.

Re: The 2021-2022 Season Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:53 pm
by pokinmik

Re: The 2021-2022 Season Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:23 pm
by dmjcat
But of course they are.

Re: The 2021-2022 Season Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:07 pm
by Postmaster
Someone had predicted this happening.

Re: The 2021-2022 Season Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:13 pm
by Postmaster
I don’t know if we are going to be able to cut down the turnovers. They just seem to go full speed all the time.
It kinda reminds me of The Rams back in the Kurt Warner era. They didn’t care about interceptions because they felt their offense was so dominating that they could still beat everyone.

But we aren’t quite to the Loyola stage yet.

Re: The 2021-2022 Season Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:25 pm
by RichardCranium
WildcatStunner wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:07 am I have to remember that when Miller first arrived he re-recruited Solomon hill and pulled DWill and a few others. He had some misses early on with Josh Shelby and Doron Lamb. But he did recruit some high level guys that didn’t happen to pan out (Josiah and Sidiki come to mind).

Long story short, let’s see what he pulls fo 2023.
Not arguing but I think Sidiki, for one, pretty much recruited himself. He was lined up wanting to play for Lute since about 8th grade. CSM basically just had to decide to keep him or not.

Re: The 2021-2022 Season Thread

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:58 pm
by Beachcat97
Ucla hasn’t sold out a home game since the Ford Administration, so I’m not sure their letting fans back in matters all that much. We have the weapons to beat that team. Bring ‘em on.

Re: The 2021-2022 Season Thread

Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 8:23 am
by TheCatInTheHat
TheCat wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:39 pm So UCLA is playing on Saturday and we play on Sunday. Why are we not playing on Saturday giving us two days to prepare instead of one? We could clearly play on Saturday. Seems the PAC would want to schedule it so both had the same rest and practice time.
Good point. We could also have chartered back home Saturday night and easily made the one-hour flight to LA Monday afternoon after two nights in our own beds and access to our facilities. Oh, well. Kliavkoff is on record as saying USC football and UCLA basketball have to be good for the league to be good, since those are apparently the only Pac-12 teams the eastern establishment knows or respects. I just hope we get Tubelis back at close to 100% for UCLA, but I tend to doubt it.

Re: The 2021-2022 Season Thread

Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 8:55 am
by TheCat
Wonder if he flew home for treatment or is still in the Bay area?

Re: The 2021-2022 Season Thread

Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 11:14 am
by ZagCatFan
Spaceman Spiff wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:50 pm
Beachcat97 wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:44 pm
ZagCatFan wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:53 am Similar discussion about recruiting going on on Gonzaga board…..where are the recruits?

Interesting article in The Athletic today about transfer portal…coaches seem to be willing to hold positions open for transfers instead of rushing out to grab freshmen. Could be the new normal.

Happy to see CTL feeling the love from Cat fans. He was important block in GU foundation.

Dream final Gonzaga vs Arizona
Welcome, ZagCat!

If Gonzaga plays AZ in the national title game, both coaches are gonna need a stiff drink before tip. And at halftime!
Hey, it's his first post, no Mark Few DUI jokes yet. Let him settle in.
Thanks for warm welcome.

Believe me Zag fans were some of the loudest critics.

Some blamed Arizona for taking away his designated driver. )

Ballo had nice game against Stanford. The kid has always had a nice stroke from free throw line.

Re: The 2021-2022 Season Thread

Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 11:35 am
by azcat49
I am hoping AZ and the Zags are in separate brackets. I would love to see both in the FF and hopefully meet in an all western final

Re: The 2021-2022 Season Thread

Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 2:49 pm
by Alieberman
Tubelis injury described as day-to-day

This is good news

Re: The 2021-2022 Season Thread

Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:37 pm
by EastCoastCat
I would rest him tomorrow.

Re: The 2021-2022 Season Thread

Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:39 pm
by 84Cat
Alieberman wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 2:49 pm Tubelis injury described as day-to-day

This is good news
Lloyd said he did not think Tubelis suffered a high ankle sprain or anything that would keep him out an extended period of time. "He's up and moving and he's feeling better but I don't know what that means for tomorrow yet."

https://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildca ... &id=201408

Re: The 2021-2022 Season Thread

Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:49 pm
by Merkin
Someone posted on FB that he was walking around without a boot.

Re: The 2021-2022 Season Thread

Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:55 pm
by Alieberman
I’m guessing he will sit tomorrow regardless if he’s able or not and then determine on Tuesday if he can play

Re: The 2021-2022 Season Thread

Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 4:09 pm
by azcat49
Let him sit and hopefully he gives it a go Tuesday

Re: The 2021-2022 Season Thread

Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 4:26 pm
by Beachcat97
I actually wouldn't even mind resting him on Tuesday. Why risk further injury? It's a big game, but we do get them at our place too and are already a game up on them in the loss column. Matters much more to have him 100% for March.

Re: The 2021-2022 Season Thread

Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 10:25 pm
by azgreg
I still can't get my head around the idea of giving up 21 offensive rebounds a turning the ball over 14 times and winning by 27

Re: The 2021-2022 Season Thread

Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 10:35 pm
by UAEebs86
azgreg wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 10:25 pm I still can't get my head around the idea of giving up 21 offensive rebounds a turning the ball over 14 times and winning by 27
Seemed like they shot a lot of real bricks that led to long rebounds that went past normal rebounding/blocking out position. Cats played good defense on most of the extra possessions.

Re: The 2021-2022 Season Thread

Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:04 am
by TheCatInTheHat
Beachcat97 wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 4:26 pm I actually wouldn't even mind resting him on Tuesday. Why risk further injury? It's a big game, but we do get them at our place too and are already a game up on them in the loss column. Matters much more to have him 100% for March.
Ankle sprains in basketball are no joke. At my high school, we had that rubberized Tartan crap that they used to just roll out and glue onto concrete. No give whatsoever, so you could get shin splints from it, and new shoes would sometimes stick to it. And no ankle taping, of course. In practice, I came down on somebody's foot and severely rolled my right ankle. Next to no treatment. I was on crutches for about a week, but couldn't play for maybe three. Then, I tried to come back too soon, favored the right...and promptly sprained the left one with the shoe sticking to the Tartan thing. Season over for me. Obviously, Arizona's got the best diagnosis and treatment available, but at some point, it's up to the athlete to judge their own body. And those damned nagging things can crop up over and over again. I got to re-live the experience of seeing stars with a swelling ankle playing intramural ball at Bear Down Gym years after that, and again on a concrete court many years later.
(Insert comment about weak ankles here.) My read on Azoulas is that he's a little reckless, which I love, but I hope he's a little cautious this time and keeps in mind the overall war versus just the next battle.

Re: The 2021-2022 Season Thread

Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:30 am
by Beachcat97
TheCatInTheHat wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:04 am
Beachcat97 wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 4:26 pm I actually wouldn't even mind resting him on Tuesday. Why risk further injury? It's a big game, but we do get them at our place too and are already a game up on them in the loss column. Matters much more to have him 100% for March.
Ankle sprains in basketball are no joke. At my high school, we had that rubberized Tartan crap that they used to just roll out and glue onto concrete. No give whatsoever, so you could get shin splints from it, and new shoes would sometimes stick to it. And no ankle taping, of course. In practice, I came down on somebody's foot and severely rolled my right ankle. Next to no treatment. I was on crutches for about a week, but couldn't play for maybe three. Then, I tried to come back too soon, favored the right...and promptly sprained the left one with the shoe sticking to the Tartan thing. Season over for me. Obviously, Arizona's got the best diagnosis and treatment available, but at some point, it's up to the athlete to judge their own body. And those damned nagging things can crop up over and over again. I got to re-live the experience of seeing stars with a swelling ankle playing intramural ball at Bear Down Gym years after that, and again on a concrete court many years later.
(Insert comment about weak ankles here.) My read on Azoulas is that he's a little reckless, which I love, but I hope he's a little cautious this time and keeps in mind the overall war versus just the next battle.
That's great perspective, TCITH.

I've had my own run of ankle injuries and can relate.

We'll just have to trust that Tubelis and the coaches/trainers get this right. He's a MAJOR part of our success this year. So damn efficient.

Re: The 2021-2022 Season Thread

Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:35 am
by UAEebs86
I think one of the companies my dad worked for sold that crappy floor covering. :lol: