Bear Down Wildcats

zonagrad wrote:Out of all of this, have any of the assistant coaches involved turned on their head coaches? As far as I can tell, none have ratted on the head coach. Maybe more will come in the NCAA investigation. But Book wasn’t a cooperative witness despite the guilty plea.

No and they cant now. They have already had their chance in court and in cooperation. This is coming from taped calls with Dawkins today

Has anybody considered the Arizona basketball coach might not be dirty?

Dawkins, who has been found guilty on federal fraud charges, is accusing somebody else.

So, what’s that mean?

For all we know at this point, Dawkins could be a snitch trying ease his own burden by dragging others in — whether they did anything wrong or not.

If there is something more damning against Miller, why hasn’t it come public, yet?

If Miller were dirty, wouldn’t that have come out when his former assistant Book Richardson took a guilty plea in January?

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/ ... 625973002/" target="_blank

Gilbertcat wrote:Has anybody considered the Arizona basketball coach might not be dirty?

Dawkins, who has been found guilty on federal fraud charges, is accusing somebody else.

So, what’s that mean?

For all we know at this point, Dawkins could be a snitch trying ease his own burden by dragging others in — whether they did anything wrong or not.

If there is something more damning against Miller, why hasn’t it come public, yet?

If Miller were dirty, wouldn’t that have come out when his former assistant Book Richardson took a guilty plea in January?

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/ ... 625973002/" target="_blank

I guess I appreciate the effort, but that column is riddled with factual inaccuracies. The author repeatedly refers to Dawkins testifying, which he hasn't done, and conflates the $15k Book was asking for with the vague allegation of Miller fronting the deal with Ayton.

tricat wrote:

Gilbertcat wrote:Has anybody considered the Arizona basketball coach might not be dirty?

Dawkins, who has been found guilty on federal fraud charges, is accusing somebody else.

So, what’s that mean?

For all we know at this point, Dawkins could be a snitch trying ease his own burden by dragging others in — whether they did anything wrong or not.

If there is something more damning against Miller, why hasn’t it come public, yet?

If Miller were dirty, wouldn’t that have come out when his former assistant Book Richardson took a guilty plea in January?

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/ ... 625973002/" target="_blank

I guess I appreciate the effort, but that column is riddled with factual inaccuracies. The author repeatedly refers to Dawkins testifying, which he hasn't done, and conflates the $15k Book was asking for with the vague allegation of Miller fronting the deal with Ayton.

The author is not a very good writer here in Phoenix

Take it a step further.

Dawkins used a fictional relationship with Miller as a ploy to raise money for his criminal enterprise.

Since the indictments dropped, the media and public at large have taken the Dawkins Company Crime Pitch as a statement of fact. They've bought Dawkins as a reliable narrator and have perpetuated his falsehood - unknowingly, I presume, but with gross neglect for the harm they're doing.

I have faith in journalists (even sports journalists) and I'm therefore incredibly dismayed and honestly astonished at their collective lack of critical thought to the above. Miller is a victim of Dawkins's crimes, and the basis for those crimes - Dawkins's fabricated relationship with Miller - is being used by the media as "clouds of concern" or "damaging information" to drag Miller through the mud. It's incredibly ignorant and unfair.

--------

I'd like to caveat: the fictional relationship is that Miller and Dawkins frequently engaged in criminal conspiracy together, and that Dawkins had run of the program. I'll also caveat that it's entirely possible that Miller has done something illegal (including something along the lines of what he's been accused of) - my great gripe is that he has been prejudged without a shred of evidence to his guilt. Dawkins saying Miller said something is not evidence, especially given Dawkins's motive to fabricate and his history of fabrications. Book doing something illegal for four months is not evidence of Miller's wrongdoing. Caveat over.

zonagrad wrote:Out of all of this, have any of the assistant coaches involved turned on their head coaches? As far as I can tell, none have ratted on the head coach. Maybe more will come in the NCAA investigation. But Book wasn’t a cooperative witness despite the guilty plea.

THIS ALONE should be the tell of the tale...think about it...you're making 1/5th (if even that IF you're tenured) of what the head coach makes, in a lot of cases you have a pretty decent (if not better) relationship with the players themselves (look at how many Cats came to Books defense)...add to this the personal dynamics of a very stubborn Head Coach (is there any other defense than packline/run a different offense Miller/beat the damn Zone Miller!)...include the fact that the version WE SEE of Miller is the public restrained and not potty mouth version (Never forget the "I see you motherfucker" to the ref)...include a dash of Miller gets credit for everything YOU do and its a recipe for turning on him, hell repeat this recipe for EVERY ASSISTANT COACH OUT THERE...

And you know what?

Not one story of an assistant turning in the head coach for paying for players to come...NOT.ONE.DAMN.INSTANCE.

This is why I don't buy into the "college basketball is ALL corrupt, everyone does it"...with that big a conspiracy it is IMPOSSIBLE to control the narrative, no way you get 368 teams/assistants/coaches/players/etc to ALL keep quiet about it...

We've heard one or two stories from former players...but only a handful of QUESTIONABLE sources claiming players were paid/gifted cars/etc...

But there is not enough actual evidence to support the conspiracy theory...and certainly NOT ANY ASSISTANT COACHES TURNING IN HEAD COACHES...

You gonna be the fall guy and go to prison for a head coach who took credit for your work/slighted you?

Ain't happening...as much as I want to bend into the theory that college BB is corrupt I know enough about human nature and TALKING to know its not really all that true...

Hell no one even making these claims and later denying them...what we DO have is some corrupt money grubbing low tier shoe guys and agents trying to game the system...and that is ALL we have so far...

Until I see evidence I'm pretty well convinced that most of what we are hearing is bullshit, on ALL accounts.
...

These last two posts absolutely sum up my feelings.

Back to the trial. The prosecution is done with their witnesses. Now it's the defense's turn. It'll be interesting to see who if any they call up to stand or if Dawkins himself takes the stand (could be interesting what he says under oath).

Remember, Dawkins' lawyer wanted Wade & Miller to testify Dawkins never tried to bribe them, at least that was their stated reason.
As an aside, I wonder how the NCAA punishes us for Book's deeds. What's the punishment for taking bribe money?

NYCat wrote:Back to the trial. The prosecution is done with their witnesses. Now it's the defense's turn. It'll be interesting to see who if any they call up to stand or if Dawkins himself takes the stand (could be interesting what he says under oath).

Remember, Dawkins' lawyer wanted Wade & Miller to testify Dawkins never tried to bribe them, at least that was their stated reason.

As an aside, I wonder how the NCAA punishes us for Book's deeds. What's the punishment for taking bribe money?

Boils down to the interpretation of "institutional control." But so far, have there been an provable NCAA violations?

If Book Richardson commits rape, is that on Sean Miller for lack of institutional control? Book broke federal law by engaging in a bribe scheme. And remember, the UA and also Miller can be considered victims for Book's actions in the eyes of the FBI. In the eyes of the NCAA??????

Omertà

zonagrad wrote:

NYCat wrote:Back to the trial. The prosecution is done with their witnesses. Now it's the defense's turn. It'll be interesting to see who if any they call up to stand or if Dawkins himself takes the stand (could be interesting what he says under oath).

Remember, Dawkins' lawyer wanted Wade & Miller to testify Dawkins never tried to bribe them, at least that was their stated reason.

As an aside, I wonder how the NCAA punishes us for Book's deeds. What's the punishment for taking bribe money?

Boils down to the interpretation of "institutional control." But so far, have there been an provable NCAA violations?

If Book Richardson commits rape, is that on Sean Miller for lack of institutional control? Book broke federal law by engaging in a bribe scheme. And remember, the UA and also Miller can be considered victims for Book's actions in the eyes of the FBI. In the eyes of the NCAA??????

If the NCAA comes at us with “lack of institutional control” then that means CSM didn’t know what his assistant was doing which flies in the face of DukieV and the rest of these morons implying and outright accusing CSM of orchestrating some grand scheme to illegally pay recruits.

But watch them all yell “told you so!” anyway...

zonagrad wrote:

NYCat wrote:Back to the trial. The prosecution is done with their witnesses. Now it's the defense's turn. It'll be interesting to see who if any they call up to stand or if Dawkins himself takes the stand (could be interesting what he says under oath).

Remember, Dawkins' lawyer wanted Wade & Miller to testify Dawkins never tried to bribe them, at least that was their stated reason.

As an aside, I wonder how the NCAA punishes us for Book's deeds. What's the punishment for taking bribe money?

Boils down to the interpretation of "institutional control." But so far, have there been an provable NCAA violations?

If Book Richardson commits rape, is that on Sean Miller for lack of institutional control? Book broke federal law by engaging in a bribe scheme. And remember, the UA and also Miller can be considered victims for Book's actions in the eyes of the FBI. In the eyes of the NCAA??????

Presumably, the government is contending that the U of A is a victim of Book’s crimes. Namely, if Book provided any of that money to a player, or player’s family/friends, even if AFTER the player is on the team - say, to induce signing with an agent, that makes the player ineligible, under NCAA standards. ( Remember Jason Terry’s violations??)

pc in NM wrote:

zonagrad wrote:

NYCat wrote:Back to the trial. The prosecution is done with their witnesses. Now it's the defense's turn. It'll be interesting to see who if any they call up to stand or if Dawkins himself takes the stand (could be interesting what he says under oath).

Remember, Dawkins' lawyer wanted Wade & Miller to testify Dawkins never tried to bribe them, at least that was their stated reason.

As an aside, I wonder how the NCAA punishes us for Book's deeds. What's the punishment for taking bribe money?

Boils down to the interpretation of "institutional control." But so far, have there been an provable NCAA violations?

If Book Richardson commits rape, is that on Sean Miller for lack of institutional control? Book broke federal law by engaging in a bribe scheme. And remember, the UA and also Miller can be considered victims for Book's actions in the eyes of the FBI. In the eyes of the NCAA??????

Presumably, the government is contending that the U of A is a victim of Book’s crimes. Namely, if Book provided any of that money to a player, or player’s family/friends, even if AFTER the player is on the team - say, to induce signing with an agent, that makes the player ineligible, under NCAA standards. ( Remember Jason Terry’s violations??)

And yet the NCAA & FBI both interviewed the players and found nothing. So Book may have intended to pay players and took bribe money from Dawkins --- but that money never made its way to Arizona players. So in the end -- Book is caught in an FBI wire accepting money, plotting to pay players, etc... But he did not pay the players, which means Arizona's program is in the clear. Book is fired and does time. And we move on.

Columbo needs to shut the fuck up

UAEebs86 wrote:Columbo needs to shut the fuck up

Dawkins could argue it should be played because Blade: Trinity was also set in New York City, along with this trial.

Just because you can argue it doesn't mean that argument will win or that it is even legitimate. It still has zilch to do with what the trial is about.

The defense's argument that Dawkins didn't bribe Miller, thus it should come in...the judge's initial take holds true. In a murder trial, you can't bring in all the guys the defendant didn't murder to testify.

UAEebs86 wrote:Columbo needs to shut the fuck up

I guess it’s possible that CSM monologued like some cartoon villain, telling Dawkins all the sordid details of the cash he bagged up and handed out to get Ayton, but that seems way less than likely. Miller doesn’t strike me as the “brag about all the nefarious shit I’ve done” type.

They all just want a story. Made up or real, they don’t care. Hopefully this shit ends soon

Here's how it goes down...Dawkins gets a guilty verdict, claims all sorts of shit, realizes that pushing the Miller narrative is a fools errand, instead switches to Zion and Duke as his lawyer fields questions from the courthouse steps..."We have evidence the jury was not allowed to hear from coaches who took money to pay players"...ESPN and Dickie V spin that to mean that it is MILLER who is guilty in spite of the legal eagle specifically mentioning Kansas or Zion or whomever can generate the attention they need...

Dawkins goes to jail, Lawyer goes to the Yacht store...ESPN and Mark Schlabach all claim "See we were right about Miller and UofA" even though they are never mentioned again...

The end.

Yay Book telling Dawkins that Sean was paying 10k per month for Ayton. Love me some Book man, he's good people.

https://sports.yahoo.com/arizona-sean-m ... 18418.html" target="_blank

ChooChooCat wrote:Yay Book telling Dawkins that Sean was paying 10k per month for Ayton. Love me some Book man, he's good people.

https://sports.yahoo.com/arizona-sean-m ... 18418.html" target="_blank

It's Miller's fault for keeping Book on board

ChooChooCat wrote:Yay Book telling Dawkins that Sean was paying 10k per month for Ayton. Love me some Book man, he's good people.

https://sports.yahoo.com/arizona-sean-m ... 18418.html" target="_blank

This seems like a bad thing. One thing for Dawkins to say it, seems a little scarier coming straight from Book.

There's no way to whitewash this.

He gone...at least our Women's program looks promising...

ChooChooCat wrote:Yay Book telling Dawkins that Sean was paying 10k per month for Ayton. Love me some Book man, he's good people.

https://sports.yahoo.com/arizona-sean-m ... 18418.html" target="_blank

Not a good look but I guess the NCAA couldn't find any proof of payment...

Did not see this right hook coming. Terrible for it to be said by Book.

Staying on my feet... 1) I still don't trust either of these guys are reliable narrators, and 2) the FBI and NCAA found no evidence of what Book is asserting here (even with the "road map" provided by Book).

Not a great PR day for us though, can't deny that.

Both the NCAA and FBI looked into this and every one involved was cleared. The University needs to fucking get in front of this story now, otherwise they are absolutely worthless and every one in the PR department should be fired immediately.

YoDeFoe wrote:Did not see this right hook coming. Terrible for it to be said by Book.

Staying on my feet... 1) I still don't trust either of these guys are reliable narrators, and 2) the FBI and NCAA found no evidence of what Book is asserting here (even with the "road map" provided by Book).

Not a great PR day for us though, can't deny that.

Imagine you're a small time crook and you promised you'd get Rawle for someone who is giving you money and also intimated you'd help get Ayton. What would you say to make an excuse that you couldn't follow up on those claims?

ChooChooCat wrote:Both the NCAA and FBI looked into this and every one involved was cleared. The University needs to fucking get in front of this story now, otherwise they are absolutely worthless and every one in the PR department should be fired immediately.

They're incompetent, especially Heeke. I don't have any confidence they do anything mitigate this.

ChooChooCat wrote:Both the NCAA and FBI looked into this and every one involved was cleared. The University needs to fucking get in front of this story now, otherwise they are absolutely worthless and every one in the PR department should be fired immediately.

ChooChooCat wrote:Both the NCAA and FBI looked into this and every one involved was cleared. The University needs to fucking get in front of this story now, otherwise they are absolutely worthless and every one in the PR department should be fired immediately.

Yes. If Arizona does not address this immediately, I will be pissed.

The back end issue is always the lack of proof of payments. Unless Arizona is realistically looking into terminating Miller, they need to address it asap, probably largely about the lack of back end proof.

Need a media blitz from the school itself

Chicat wrote:Fuckin' Book. What an a-hole.

...

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:Both the NCAA and FBI looked into this and every one involved was cleared. The University needs to fucking get in front of this story now, otherwise they are absolutely worthless and every one in the PR department should be fired immediately.

Yes. If Arizona does not address this immediately, I will be pissed.

WildcatAuthority can't be the only people vocally playing defense here. If so, Arizona Basketball is fucked.

Schlabach is probably high-fiving himself.

Chicat wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:Both the NCAA and FBI looked into this and every one involved was cleared. The University needs to fucking get in front of this story now, otherwise they are absolutely worthless and every one in the PR department should be fired immediately.

Yes. If Arizona does not address this immediately, I will be pissed.

WildcatAuthority can't be the only people vocally playing defense here. If so, Arizona Basketball is fucked.

At this point if you're going to let the guy publicly drown over things that not only you, but the NCAA, and FBI looked into already you might as well fire him and then deal with the inevitable lawsuit that will come after that.

Two criminals talk, both known liars, both known to misrepresent themselves and the world they live in...

But facts are stubborn things...both Rawle and Ayton have been investigated, Miller has been investigated by the UA, by legal, by the FBI...paying EITHER of these guys or their families would have been a crime in the same category that these two liars are being charged with, yet no evidence exist AT ALL that the money they CLAIM changed hands ever changed hands...

The fact is you don't just hide $10k a month in a secret spy ring compartment...$10K is the number BANKS ARE REQUIRED TO REPORT...and track...so its not just Millers account it would have been the families as well...

Besides that where does MIller get the $10k????

Who is supposedly footing this bill or is MIller paying this out of his own pocket?

I still call bullshit, and let the ESPN spin it how they want they don't decide our fate...the NCAA and coaching does.

10 am on a Wednesday and we've still learned nothing. But I can't help my brain repeating over and over again: We all knew who Book was when he went behind Miller's back to sell information to you-know-who. We all knew that said everything we needed to know about how low on the dirt scale Book would go while betraying the program for the sake of cash. We're stuck in the loop of the most horrible decision of all time: Miller's decision to keep Book in the program.

NYCat wrote:Need a media blitz from the school itself

"The basis for those interviews and questioning, which Arizona is aware and involved with, as is the NCAA, were the tapes being played in this trial."

Just for my clarification, the FBI & NCAA already listened to these recordings prior to questioning the players? Has Arizona heard these recordings before this trial?

StickItInTheyFace wrote:

NYCat wrote:Need a media blitz from the school itself

"The basis for those interviews and questioning, which Arizona is aware and involved with, as is the NCAA, were the tapes being played in this trial."

Just for my clarification, the FBI & NCAA already listened to these recordings prior to questioning the players? Has Arizona heard these recordings before this trial?

Arizona knew what was on the wiretaps that were played today, yes.

NYCat wrote:Need a media blitz from the school itself

If that is accurate, it needs to come from the school itself. Otherwise, you're going to be screwed just by public opinion.

People only remember the breaking news alert and this is out there.

Beachcat97 wrote:Schlabach is probably high-fiving himself.

That's a cute euphemism for "slapping his dick raw".

Longhorned wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:

Longhorned wrote:Again, none of this is new to upper administration at Arizona. All of this is consistent with why Arizona supports Miller.

Nice.

So from a PR standpoint, the plan is to just remain silent? I'm not exactly sure what the school or Miller's lawyer could say, but maybe saying nothing is the more effective strategy in the long run.

I think it's telling that our '19 class hasn't wavered; in fact, it's grown! Hazzard is on board, and we're waiting on Brown. I wonder how the '20 recruiting efforts are going.

So while the national media are wild-eyed and breathless over the fantasy of AZ hoops collapsing, the reality is that we're going to begin next season as a top 15/top 20 team with an elite freshman class, and most importantly, with Miller as our coach.

Arizona won't stay silent, and haven't been. But the statements are likely to be as minimal and dry as they have been so far.

It's worth realizing that very few people follow any of this. The very low level of awareness in the larger world is mirrored on campus at U of A. The focus of administrators and their conversations about this are commensurate with that. There's no call for a PR campaign to deal with this, especially since players and recruits are in the loop.

There was only one brief period when any of this was a big deal, and recruits themselves were blindsided: when ESPN broadcast to the world that Sean Miller has been caught on tape offering $100,000 for Ayton. But it's been 13 months of living in a world where there's no reason to believe what was reported. What ESPN and Yahoo Sports put out these days, and what gets tweeted by Dick Vitale and others, is something only crazy basketball message board posters are aware of.

The fact on the table that will remain unchanged by anything is that Book Richardson is officially guilty. That's about it.

Felt worth revisiting this.

You say AZ won't stay silent, and the day is still young. But as others have noted, we are getting KILLED at the moment by every mainstream sports outlet. How is there not a call for *some* kind of PR move?

I'll defer to the lawyers and well-connected alums in this thread.

Chicat wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:Schlabach is probably high-fiving himself.

That's a cute euphemism for "slapping his dick raw".

Or is Dick Vitale doing it for him?

Man what a triple decker shit sandwich this all is.

ChooChooCat wrote:

StickItInTheyFace wrote:

NYCat wrote:Need a media blitz from the school itself

"The basis for those interviews and questioning, which Arizona is aware and involved with, as is the NCAA, were the tapes being played in this trial."

Just for my clarification, the FBI & NCAA already listened to these recordings prior to questioning the players? Has Arizona heard these recordings before this trial?

Arizona knew what was on the wiretaps that were played today, yes.

Thank you! You're totally right, the school has to make a statement. If this really is old news to them then they need to make that known, today's report has gotten me pretty worried and I think I pay a lot more attention than the average UofA or college basketball fan.

At this point just cut ties with Miller if the university and it's leaders aren't going to defend their choice to keep him. Along with the reasons the university, FBI, NCAA have already looked at what's been released and cleared Ayton, Rawle, and Miller to keep coaching. They didn't even do anything with the Ayton/Schlabach story, that was alll Scheer/WA driving the train
Fucking pathetic.

NYCat wrote:At this point just cut ties with Miller if the university and it's leaders aren't going to defend their choice to keep him. Along with the reasons the university, FBI, NCAA have already looked at what's been released and cleared Ayton, Rawle, and Miller to keep coaching. They didn't even do anything with the Ayton/Schlabach story, that was alll Scheer/WA driving the train
Fucking pathetic.

This is where I am at as well NYcat.

NYCat wrote:At this point just cut ties with Miller if the university and it's leaders aren't going to defend their choice to keep him. Along with the reasons the university, FBI, NCAA have already looked at what's been released and cleared Ayton, Rawle, and Miller to keep coaching. They didn't even do anything with the Ayton/Schlabach story, that was alll Scheer/WA driving the train
Fucking pathetic.

The longer they let these accusations fester in the public sphere, the more they are allowing each and every member of the team and staff to be slandered. Does anyone escape the implication that they either paid recruits or were paid to play? It’s completely unfair and the AD needs to refute that idea immediately.

It’s not hard...

“We’ve investigated these specific accusations thoroughly and find them to be without merit.”

NYCat wrote:At this point just cut ties with Miller if the university and it's leaders aren't going to defend their choice to keep him. Along with the reasons the university, FBI, NCAA have already looked at what's been released and cleared Ayton, Rawle, and Miller to keep coaching. They didn't even do anything with the Ayton/Schlabach story, that was alll Scheer/WA driving the train
Fucking pathetic.

It has to be one or the other. Either make your case for retention or don't retain him.

I understand the Ayton/Schlabach silence, because that was a surprise to investigate. This...what are you doing? Own the decision strongly.