Bear Down Wildcats

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2019 7:32 am**

Never thought I'd say this, but if we fire Sean Miller, my interest in AZ hoops is going to take a serious hit. It's not about Miller; it's about an organization whose competence/leadership is again and again shown to be weak AF.

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2019 7:34 am**

Newportcat wrote:Regents meeting on Friday to discuss Miller situation sounds like

Well this news is a turd in the punchbowl.

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2019 7:40 am**

Geez guys. Barring a tape played with Miller’s voice substantiating the allegations, the university is in no position to fire Miller.

Arizona has, and will continue to lose in the court of public opinion, but last I checked that doesn’t really mean shit.

Let the ABOR meet for a legal update...but a few huge careers are hitched to the decision to keep miller that was made long ago.

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2019 7:43 am**

There’s still no substance to any of this. Book is on tape making a damning statement. But is there any tangible proof? I think that’s all everyone with a rational mind wants. Book pleaded guilty. Has he been interviewed by the NCAA? Has he done anything to throw Miller under the bus since his arrest? It’s not as though Book testified under oath that Miller did these things. Book talked a lot of shit to maneuver himself with Dawkins. And we surely know Dawkins made up everything to position himself. It’s all a house of cards.

I don’t know how you could possibly fire Miller based solely on the wire tap of Book with nothing else to support it. Unless I’m missing something or something new emerges, Miller remains our coach.

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2019 7:51 am**

97cats wrote:
goslingswagg wrote:
We're screwed aren't we?
don’t know, im really no more sure than anyone else...just sharing Books nickname inside the program for as long as I can remember.

i have no issue with anything said or done so far from Coach Miller, except keeping ‘The Clown’ on board after numerous pleads to get rid of him for almost the better part of the last sevun years.

i will never truly know why, im not sure anyone does, but it’s proving to be Sean Millers biggest error to date.

Agree wholeheartedly. Miller fucked up royally in keeping him on staff, full stop.

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2019 7:52 am**

Firing Miller would just feel like an unnecessary, self-imposed death penalty.

I know there are some here who don't like Miller or his coaching style, and that's fine. But firing a coach is a huge decision, and as O-dogg explained, others' careers are now linked to the decision to keep Miller last year.

You have to keep him for now. If they have another disappointing season, and there's an actual basketball-related rationale for firing him, so be it. But doing it now would have a far-reaching negative impact on the program.

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2019 8:00 am**

Newportcat wrote:Regents meeting on Friday to discuss Miller situation sounds like

The million dollar question is whether this is a "staying up to date on the legal situation" or a "taking action" meeting.

So far ABOR consistently meets to give the appearance they are actively abreast of the situation. Given the PR fallout, I worry this is more.

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2019 8:02 am**

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Newportcat wrote:Regents meeting on Friday to discuss Miller situation sounds like
The million dollar question is whether this is a "staying up to date on the legal situation" or a "taking action" meeting.

So far ABOR consistently meets to give the appearance they are actively abreast of the situation. Given the PR fallout, I worry this is more.

Robbins tells the ABOR what to do in regards to Miller. He’s tied his horse to the cart.

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2019 8:06 am**

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Newportcat wrote:Regents meeting on Friday to discuss Miller situation sounds like
The million dollar question is whether this is a "staying up to date on the legal situation" or a "taking action" meeting.

So far ABOR consistently meets to give the appearance they are actively abreast of the situation. Given the PR fallout, I worry this is more.

If it were a situation where there were *no* previous investigative action, and this trial was the first we were all hearing about Book's dirtiness, I'd be more understanding of an ABOR decision to fire Miller. But we are well past FBI and NCAA investigations that concluded our players were eligible and our coach isn't implicated.

Is the PR factor enough to pull the trigger and effectively forfeit the 2019-20 season?

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2019 8:11 am**

What I know to be true before this week with no recent updates

Athletic department believes Sean Miller and think he is innocent and Book was a rogue and we were not paying anyone. I have been told that to my face

President believes Sean Miller’s story and has told people as such. Not to my face but others I know well. He has told many top alumni Miller is innocent in his view

Both especially Robbins have backed Miller strongly to the regents which really should not be a surprise

I have no idea if this weeks tape change anything

But Miller should have fired Book a long time ago. That is clear

I think the meeting happens on Friday and basically it gets passed down that Miller better keep his nose squeeky clean and more importantly win. If we have a disappointing season, I see no way he is not fired outside of us not really having the buyout money we need if we struggle next year. Just feels like the bad PR will only be negated if we win big in the minds of the regents

Who knows but think this will be more of a catch up meeting with updates but its not a secret to any regent Book was super shady and find it extremely difficult to believe there will ever be any proof Miller was paying players directly.

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2019 8:12 am**

Beachcat97 wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Newportcat wrote:Regents meeting on Friday to discuss Miller situation sounds like
The million dollar question is whether this is a "staying up to date on the legal situation" or a "taking action" meeting.

So far ABOR consistently meets to give the appearance they are actively abreast of the situation. Given the PR fallout, I worry this is more.
If it were a situation where there were *no* previous investigative action, and this trial was the first we were all hearing about Book's dirtiness, I'd be more understanding of an ABOR decision to fire Miller. But we are well past FBI and NCAA investigations that concluded our players were eligible and our coach isn't implicated.

Is the PR factor enough to pull the trigger and effectively forfeit the 2019-20 season?

That's the question. And is it enough to pay an enormous buyout and go through the effort and expense of hiring a new coach?

ABOR can't say they were unaware of all these allegations previously, especially because they've now held multiple "staying up to date" meetings. So it would purely be a PR move, which makes them look silly and reactive.

"We remained on top of the situation and knew about these allegations, but now that you know too, we felt we had no choice but to do something..."

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2019 8:12 am**

Olsondogg wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Newportcat wrote:Regents meeting on Friday to discuss Miller situation sounds like
The million dollar question is whether this is a "staying up to date on the legal situation" or a "taking action" meeting.

So far ABOR consistently meets to give the appearance they are actively abreast of the situation. Given the PR fallout, I worry this is more.
Robbins tells the ABOR what to do in regards to Miller. He’s tied his horse to the cart.

I'm not sure about that. Choo says the administration is weak, which is true if he means Old Main and the vice presidents with respect to the competing interests of ABOR, the boosters, and the faculty if the faculty were united (which they aren't because this case isn't even on their radar). ABOR has a say, and if they don't support keeping a coach, this situation could get interesting with (hypothetically) the upper administration caught between ABOR and the boosters. Old Main is listening to lawyers, like they always have, and lawyers support the position you're paying them to argue for with respect to the law, which is on the side of Miller vis-a-vis the FBI and the current case (at least as I can best understand it, not being a legal expert), but can also turn to support a changed view in Old Main.

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2019 8:13 am**

ChooChooCat wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote: The media has to prove their worth here and prove they didn't waste everybody's time and the blood they need to spill for that to occur is Sean Miller's.
LH will have a better perspective here, but why would UofA do the media the favor of firing a successful, popular coach who's been thoroughly investigated and not found to be breaking rules? Makes zero sense.
Because they're weak.

That's what happened to Louisville. One too many scandals and they cleaned house. I'm afraid if another thing after another thing keeps popping up Arizona will do the same.

With Louisville, the short term benefit was they could move on and hire Mack, make the tournament and get a good recruiting class. The long term is that Pitino & Jurich were wrongly crucified (so far) or at least made a move too quickly before letting the facts come out, but again moving on was a lot easier - also was Pitino was older so it's easier to move on.

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2019 8:13 am**

Beachcat97 wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Newportcat wrote:Regents meeting on Friday to discuss Miller situation sounds like
The million dollar question is whether this is a "staying up to date on the legal situation" or a "taking action" meeting.

So far ABOR consistently meets to give the appearance they are actively abreast of the situation. Given the PR fallout, I worry this is more.
If it were a situation where there were *no* previous investigative action, and this trial was the first we were all hearing about Book's dirtiness, I'd be more understanding of an ABOR decision to fire Miller. But we are well past FBI and NCAA investigations that concluded our players were eligible and our coach isn't implicated.

Is the PR factor enough to pull the trigger and effectively forfeit the 2019-20 season?

ABOR consistently holds meetings after every major story. What I said above, I believe. It is to make them seem involved and on top of things.

That said, you always worry that every one is going to break more bad news.

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2019 8:17 am**

“Objection”

“Sustained”

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2019 8:18 am**

Among those active in this thread (many of whom are either alums, employees of the UA, or other UA stakeholders), I'm curious where the "fire him/don't fire him" count currently sits.

I say don't fire him.

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2019 8:21 am**

Beachcat97 wrote:Among those active in this thread (many of whom are either alums, employees of the UA, or other UA stakeholders), I'm curious where the "fire him/don't fire him" count currently sits.

I say don't fire him.

If there is proof of player payments and proof of Miller's knowledge, he can't stay. To date, I do not see evidence that rises to that level.

Short of that evidence, he shouldn't be fired.

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2019 8:22 am**

Beachcat97 wrote:Among those active in this thread (many of whom are either alums, employees of the UA, or other UA stakeholders), I'm curious where the "fire him/don't fire him" count currently sits.

I say don't fire him.

He should be fired for keeping Book, that's reason alone.

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2019 8:24 am**

I don't want him fired.

I don't think he should be fired.

And I don't think we can fire him.

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2019 8:25 am**

Chicat wrote:I don't want him fired.

I don't think he should be fired.

And I don't think we can fire him.

This.

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2019 8:30 am**

Anyway Dawkins is on the stand for some reason, malpractice by the defense attorney

• As federal prosecutor Robert Boone was establishing Dawkins’ history of being involved in fraud, he asked Dawkins, “Do you want me to go over the ways?”

Dawkins: “Please.”

Fascinating, sometimes funny theater, really.

• Dawkins at multiple points has been asked about or objected his opinion about the first trial, in which he was found guilty.

“You can’t defraud a university. I don’t even know how that’s possible.”

• At another point, as Boone tried to trip up Dawkins by laying out all the kinds of people Dawkins has said he’s OK with paying — parents, relatives, friends — Dawkins told Boone, “Get to the question, please.”

The judge has intervened with Boone and Dawkins multiple times. /fin

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2019 8:31 am**

NYCat wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:Among those active in this thread (many of whom are either alums, employees of the UA, or other UA stakeholders), I'm curious where the "fire him/don't fire him" count currently sits.

I say don't fire him.
He should be fired for keeping Book, that's reason alone.

I sort of think this out of frustration. Then again, loyalty and good intentions are positive traits, and in reality people get dicked over by the people they love and support.

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2019 8:37 am**

The tweet doesn't match what the transcript actually says, but media gonna media.

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2019 8:44 am**

Omg...Zagoria either can't read or can't understand what he reads.

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2019 8:49 am**

Chicat wrote:I don't want him fired.

I don't think he should be fired.

And I don't think we can fire him.

This is where I’m at.

And if we do fire him, it’s suicide for the program and like cutting off your nose to spite your face for the entire athletic department.

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2019 8:58 am**

Unless anything truly substantive comes out re: Miller paying players, there's absolutely no way you can fire him.

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2019 9:35 am**

97cats wrote:i have no issue with anything said or done so far from Coach Miller, except keeping ‘The Clown’ on board after numerous pleads to get rid of him for almost the better part of the last sevun years.

i will never truly know why, im not sure anyone does, but it’s proving to be Sean Millers biggest error to date.

The remedy for this is not in firing Miller, but in hiring better assistants. I think we've got a set of quality guys on the bench right now, just need a top assistant to come in who has an unimpeachable track record.

If I was the board, I would focus on the question of whether we're allocating enough resources to these assistants and whether there is too wide a gap in pay between Miller and his staff. If I'm Miller, it might behoove me to consider cutting a piece of my compensation pie off to be set aside as a bonus to my staff for completing a season in compliance (in various areas including grades and team discipline). It may sound silly - "get paid extra for not breaking the rules? how about that's an integral part of your job anyways" - but it would put a direct financial incentive for everyone to monitor each other and move in the right direction. It would also reduce the gap between Miller and his staff and further compensate the staff to reduce unlawful external financial incentives (if you have a $50k bonus for not taking money, you don't risk it for $20k in bribe money). It would also be a "give" from Miller, with him leading the way in compliance. A nice idea that I'm just shouting into the ether.

Again though: Miller's main rebuttal to the accusation that he's harbored a bad egg in his staff is the cleaning of house that he's done and the quality of the personnel that are now on board. Miller of course will only get to use that defense once.

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2019 9:39 am**

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:Among those active in this thread (many of whom are either alums, employees of the UA, or other UA stakeholders), I'm curious where the "fire him/don't fire him" count currently sits.

I say don't fire him.
If there is proof of player payments and proof of Miller's knowledge, he can't stay. To date, I do not see evidence that rises to that level.

Short of that evidence, he shouldn't be fired.

Co-sign

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2019 9:41 am**

What's the biggest loyalty regret Miller has, Book or Parker "Parker Jackson-Cartwright" Jackson-Cartwright?

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2019 9:54 am**

NYCat wrote:What's the biggest loyalty regret Miller has, Book or Parker "Parker Jackson-Cartwright" Jackson-Cartwright?

Parker stole the ball against UCLA to help us win a Pac-12 tournament title.

Book stole money that was meant for his players.

Parker had a dunking problem.

Book had a drinking problem.

Parker rarely gambled on defense.

Book gambled the house on ponies.

I think the record is clear.

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2019 9:55 am**

YoDeFoe wrote:
97cats wrote:i have no issue with anything said or done so far from Coach Miller, except keeping ‘The Clown’ on board after numerous pleads to get rid of him for almost the better part of the last sevun years.

i will never truly know why, im not sure anyone does, but it’s proving to be Sean Millers biggest error to date.
The remedy for this is not in firing Miller, but in hiring better assistants. I think we've got a set of quality guys on the bench right now, just need a top assistant to come in who has an unimpeachable track record.

If I was the board, I would focus on the question of whether we're allocating enough resources to these assistants and whether there is too wide a gap in pay between Miller and his staff. If I'm Miller, it might behoove me to consider cutting a piece of my compensation pie off to be set aside as a bonus to my staff for completing a season in compliance (in various areas including grades and team discipline). It may sound silly - "get paid extra for not breaking the rules? how about that's an integral part of your job anyways" - but it would put a direct financial incentive for everyone to monitor each other and move in the right direction. It would also reduce the gap between Miller and his staff and further compensate the staff to reduce unlawful external financial incentives (if you have a $50k bonus for not taking money, you don't risk it for $20k in bribe money). It would also be a "give" from Miller, with him leading the way in compliance. A nice idea that I'm just shouting into the ether.

Again though: Miller's main rebuttal to the accusation that he's harbored a bad egg in his staff is the cleaning of house that he's done and the quality of the personnel that are now on board. Miller of course will only get to use that defense once.

Yes, and only so long as he wins next season. And wins commensurate to the talent level he's brought on board.

And to answer 97cats' original query, I can give him an answer in three words: East. Coast. Pipeline.

Book successfully made himself out to be the World Wide Wes of Harlem in Miller's eyes. But he was only ever a glorified AAU coach. Time we left the era of such coaches behind us, as they are more part of the corruption that has befallen college hoops than any factor short of shoe companies.

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2019 10:06 am**

CalStateTempe wrote:
Newportcat wrote:Regents meeting on Friday to discuss Miller situation sounds like
Well this news is a turd in the punchbowl.

This is absolutely nothing

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2019 10:11 am**

YoDeFoe wrote:
NYCat wrote:What's the biggest loyalty regret Miller has, Book or Parker "Parker Jackson-Cartwright" Jackson-Cartwright?
Parker stole the ball against UCLA to help us win a Pac-12 tournament title.

Book stole money that was meant for his players.

Parker had a dunking problem.

Book had a drinking problem.

Parker rarely gambled on defense.

Book gambled the house on ponies.

I think the record is clear.

Love this post. Lol

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2019 10:18 am**

To be fair, most announcers kept calling him "Packer-Jackson"

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2019 10:19 am**

When you find out someone is desperate for cash, you're supposed to keep them away from a college basketball program.

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2019 10:58 am**

Welp court is over for the day and nothing big came out. Closing arguments start manana.

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2019 11:04 am**

Well or welp, choo?

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2019 11:05 am**

ChooChooCat wrote:Welp court is over for the day and nothing big came out. Closing arguments start manana.

It's finalized: Schlabach should be fired, and everyone who supported him should admit they were wrong in publicly standing by Schlabach's reporting of a recorded conversation in which Sean Miller offered $100,000 for Ayton.

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2019 11:06 am**

First of all ABOR meeting...

They are the political wing of Az Universities, but they have no power to fire or hire, they are basically the GOP/Democratic parties...they shout about policy and position but they are not in charge they just make noise.

2nd about the NCAA coming down hard on UA...consider that the NCAA has EVOLVED as an organization along WITH college sports...back in the day when they were digging in Lutes poop for crap they had more power, had not been challenged and were not quite the money machine they have become...PLEASE REMEMBER THEY ARE A COMMITTEE OF UNIVERSITY EXECS/MONKEY-UPS...and for the record almost ALL of the billions they earn on the big dance and college play-off goes BACK TO THE MEMBER SCHOOLS...in other words the UofA got paid for not even going to the big dance because they divide the winnings up and redistribute it to ALL member schools...

The NCAA is not making a profit and keeping the money themselves they are a college sports CO-OP and we are a member in it...the investigative arm of the NCAA is made up of various members from the power conferences and all conferences are represented...its about making sure that when they divide the pie that individual schools are not cheating or gaming the system...the UofA BB program may look like a scapegoat but trust me that is not how the NCAA operates...its a fucking committee...EVERYTHING is done by group mind think and ALL of the legal angles are considered...so if a case is weak and there's very little substance to alleged impropriety chances are the committee is NOT going to make an example without provocation and backing LEGAL standing to do so...

Being a member of the NCAA is ALL FUCKING VOLUNTARY...EVERY LAST BIT OF IT UNTIL YOU SIGN THE COVENANT...AND YOU CAN ALWAYS "UNSIGN"...

The last thing the NCAA wants is for volunteers to get pissy and start talking about unionizing and leaving.

We are not going to get some major backlash here especially considering that the PAC 12 REQUIRES all member schools to follow pretty strict record keeping and proof of institutional control practices...I guarantee that Miller/UA has plenty of logs and every single write up on Book/Phelps/Pasternick and has a legal defense set up to boot.

No hammer gonna fall. Ain't coming its a PR nightmare for them unless actual evidence comes out, which is not happening after today.

Third: Dawkins and his testimony...prosecutors are going to tear him a new asshole today basically proving his character is a shit stain and his words are simply fantasies about what he wished he could be...he will be proven to be a liar on all accounts...that will NOT get played by the Schlabadong eating media and people like Rise and Swallow will smugly believe that Miller and Dawkins took family vacations together on Millers Yacht anchored near his summer home in Belize...from all that Nike money...

Fuck them...they are idiots on steroids it will be forgotten just like Romars loss when Miller sat out one game a season ago and we were all sure he'd be fired by the following Monday because he did not make a statement denying his guilt.

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2019 11:09 am**

ChooChooCat wrote:Welp court is over for the day and nothing big came out. Closing arguments start manana.

Thank god. I'm sure we'll have a mini-media circus after the verdict comes in and another for Book's sentencing. But we're through the bulk of it.

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2019 11:12 am**

Any chance Book Richardson makes any kind of public statement or meets with UA or NCAA investigators about his recorded comments?

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2019 11:15 am**

ChooChooCat wrote:The tweet doesn't match what the transcript actually says, but media gonna media.

Not sure where it says in there that Miller paid anyone. I'm not sure how to even make the jump within that transcript.

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2019 11:17 am**

zonagrad wrote:Any chance Book Richardson makes any kind of public statement or meets with UA or NCAA investigators about his recorded comments?

No on the former.

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2019 11:27 am**

Boone: "Mr. Dawkins, do you enjoy using the Uber service?"
Dawkins: "I love it. It's very convenient."

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2019 11:29 am**

CalStateTempe wrote:Well or welp, choo?

I just like using welp, nothing to see here thankfully. From what I understand Arizona is sticking to its Us Against the World stance by sticking with Sean Miller and will continue to flash a middle finger up at the world as we continue to land big named transfers and recroooots.

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2019 11:35 am**

ChooChooCat wrote:
CalStateTempe wrote:Well or welp, choo?
I just like using welp, nothing to see here thankfully. From what I understand Arizona is sticking to its Us Against the World stance by sticking with Sean Miller and will continue to flash a middle finger up at the world as we continue to land big named transfers and recroooots.

JB

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2019 11:38 am**

Wouldn’t you just love to know what “our guy” is saying to recruits when asked about this ordeal. He keeps recruiting at a high level. I just love me some Sean Miller

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2019 11:40 am**

ChooChooCat wrote:
CalStateTempe wrote:Well or welp, choo?
I just like using welp, nothing to see here thankfully. From what I understand Arizona is sticking to its Us Against the World stance by sticking with Sean Miller and will continue to flash a middle finger up at the world as we continue to land big named transfers and recroooots.

I'm fine with that. It pays to cooperate with the NCAA, but also be firm with them about areas proof is lacking. Firing Miller to appease the NCAA or ESPN is a losing strategy.

If we are confident there is no proof to show payments or Miller's awareness of payments, that should be the close of it. Most of what Book is accused of isn't really a NCAA violation, more of public corruption.

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2019 11:44 am**

For the record:

I don't think we should fire Sean Miller based on what we know.

If we know more, and he is dead to rights...then fire him with cause and fight it out. But then, I wonder if Heeke can survive.

Robbins is in that mix, too, but Robbins is a fantastic president, athletics or no. He inherited the Hart-Weaver/Byrne AD and did what he thought was right. He is unimpeachable in my mind.

Posted: **Thu May 02, 2019 11:49 am**

EVCat wrote:For the record:

I don't think we should fire Sean Miller based on what we know.

If we know more, and he is dead to rights...then fire him with cause and fight it out. But then, I wonder if Heeke can survive.

Robbins is in that mix, too, but Robbins is a fantastic president, athletics or no. He inherited the Hart-Weaver/Byrne AD and did what he thought was right. He is unimpeachable in my mind.

Heeke would have a tough time of surviving regardless if Sean Miller came out tomorrow and said he paid every recruit he's ever landed or Sean Miller came out tomorrow with a halo over his head and donated his entire bank flow to charity.

If Arizona wanted to fire Sean Miller it needed a literal smoking gun. Book Richardson talking shop wasn't a smoking gun as badly as the media wanted it to be.

Bear Down Wildcats

Bribery Scandal - FBI Probe - Book Richardson Involved

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