Re: Lauri Markkanen
Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:30 pm
But SEVUN years is up!
Maybe we misunderstood, and it was SEVUNteen.Merkin wrote:But SEVUN years is up!
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Maybe we misunderstood, and it was SEVUNteen.Merkin wrote:But SEVUN years is up!
Nope. Not close.rgdeuce wrote:Wish we could have seen him more than one, and wish we could have gotten all he was capable of giving us. Greatest freshman in school history, looking only at talent/output only?
I have Sean Elliot in front of him, but it's a close Top 3rgdeuce wrote:Who would you have higher? Assuming Bibby is one
rgdeuce wrote:Who would you have higher? Assuming Bibby is one
Sigh.PennZona20 wrote:rgdeuce wrote:Who would you have higher? Assuming Bibby is one
Better freshman years :
Bayless
Bibby
Damon
Elliot
Lauri is probably #5.
D will, chase, Gardner prObably in the convo too
RichardCranium wrote:Sigh.PennZona20 wrote:rgdeuce wrote:Who would you have higher? Assuming Bibby is one
Better freshman years :
Bayless
Bibby
Damon
Elliot
Lauri is probably #5.
D will, chase, Gardner prObably in the convo too
Norman.
Money.
Fleming.
Gotta be in the conversation. Even B. Elliot.
I guess I dated myself. I'm mid 30s. Don't remember much before the Elliot/Kerr days.RichardCranium wrote:Sigh.PennZona20 wrote:rgdeuce wrote:Who would you have higher? Assuming Bibby is one
Better freshman years :
Bayless
Bibby
Damon
Elliot
Lauri is probably #5.
D will, chase, Gardner prObably in the convo too
Norman.
Money.
Fleming.
Gotta be in the conversation. Even B. Elliot.
Lauri is not #5... He is certainly in the conversation of the best UA freshman of the Pac era.PennZona20 wrote:rgdeuce wrote:Who would you have higher? Assuming Bibby is one
Better freshman years :
Bayless
Bibby
Damon
Elliot
Lauri is probably #5.
D will, chase, Gardner prObably in the convo too
Then I suppose we can cast your vote in the "UO Best Freshman Ever" debate for Payton Pritchard?gumby wrote:Damon played 18 minutes a game as a frosh. Matt Othick was the starting point guard. Salim had a better freshman season that Damon.
The correct answer is Mike Bibby.
Pure numbers it's Norman and Bayless, but gotta love the first freshman point guard to win a natty.
The always overlooked Michael Wright went 14 and 8 his freshman year.
Lauri is top 5.
Didn't say it was the ONLY reason. There's also the fact that he was great from day one. So great, JT had to come off the bench.Harvey Specter wrote:Then I suppose we can cast your vote in the "UO Best Freshman Ever" debate for Payton Pritchard?gumby wrote:Damon played 18 minutes a game as a frosh. Matt Othick was the starting point guard. Salim had a better freshman season that Damon.
The correct answer is Mike Bibby.
Pure numbers it's Norman and Bayless, but gotta love the first freshman point guard to win a natty.
The always overlooked Michael Wright went 14 and 8 his freshman year.
Lauri is top 5.
UNC has 6 McDonald's All-Americans on their roster this year, spread across classes. They seems to be much better about keeping kids around who don't get immediate playing time (rather than having them transfer out) and kids who aren't quite ready for the draft (Kobi will be our latest test case). Sean needs to take a step back and think about whether he's recruiting kids with the wrong attitude or if something he is doing is driving them to leave rather than wait the extra year.Bangkok Wildcat wrote:I wish Lauri well and he was a great Frosh player BUT I hate the whole 'one and dones' thing and he will be just like Bayless, Gordon and Johnson in that although I'm proud that they were Wildcats for a short time, I'm much more interested and invested in the TJs & Kadeems (with their redshirts included), Richard Jeffersons, Solomon Hills, Channing Fyre's, etc.
One year is just way to short to get to really appreciate a player enough to feel like they are a true Wildcat. 2 years is the bare minimum for me to get invested in a player.....which really sucks because I'd bet if Lauri had come back for even one more year, he could have gone down as one of the greatest Cats ever IMHO.
I really hope they adopt the Baseball / Football strategy soon....would much rather have players and teams for a minimum of 3 years and miss out on the 1 year superstuds.....how much time do we spend worrying about who's going pro or not???.....it's getting intolerable at this point and making me less of a fan....not to mention how much it would reduce the recruiting grind on the coaches and free them up for more ACTUAL coaching.
Am so envious of Gonzaga, UNC and NIKE U with their upper-classmen....it is so nostalgic and reminds me of back when I was at Arizona in the late 80's and early 90's......Man, that was so much fun to watch how the players and teams really developed from year to year..... nowadays top programs like ours almost feel like a semi-pro team vs a real university team. Smh.
The whole reason Kobi and Alkins were available was because several other programs saw red flags. Those other programs got it wrong, especially with Alkins. But even with Kobi, it wasn't as if Miller took him ahead of somebody else. He came in, used the scholarship for one year and will give it back after a big-time performance at Pauley and a limited backup role thereafter. He's not keeping away any 2017 recruits.legallykenny wrote:UNC has 6 McDonald's All-Americans on their roster this year, spread across classes. They seems to be much better about keeping kids around who don't get immediate playing time (rather than having them transfer out) and kids who aren't quite ready for the draft (Kobi will be our latest test case). Sean needs to take a step back and think about whether he's recruiting kids with the wrong attitude or if something he is doing is driving them to leave rather than wait the extra year.Bangkok Wildcat wrote:I wish Lauri well and he was a great Frosh player BUT I hate the whole 'one and dones' thing and he will be just like Bayless, Gordon and Johnson in that although I'm proud that they were Wildcats for a short time, I'm much more interested and invested in the TJs & Kadeems (with their redshirts included), Richard Jeffersons, Solomon Hills, Channing Fyre's, etc.
One year is just way to short to get to really appreciate a player enough to feel like they are a true Wildcat. 2 years is the bare minimum for me to get invested in a player.....which really sucks because I'd bet if Lauri had come back for even one more year, he could have gone down as one of the greatest Cats ever IMHO.
I really hope they adopt the Baseball / Football strategy soon....would much rather have players and teams for a minimum of 3 years and miss out on the 1 year superstuds.....how much time do we spend worrying about who's going pro or not???.....it's getting intolerable at this point and making me less of a fan....not to mention how much it would reduce the recruiting grind on the coaches and free them up for more ACTUAL coaching.
Am so envious of Gonzaga, UNC and NIKE U with their upper-classmen....it is so nostalgic and reminds me of back when I was at Arizona in the late 80's and early 90's......Man, that was so much fun to watch how the players and teams really developed from year to year..... nowadays top programs like ours almost feel like a semi-pro team vs a real university team. Smh.
Can't speak to the guys before (Sean) Elliott, but he'd be my guy followed by Bibby. I think Lauri may slide in before Bayless, but that's a hard call. Bayless had better stats, but he dominated the ball on a bad team.rgdeuce wrote:Who would you have higher? Assuming Bibby is one
This has been my opinion for a while. I believe the 5 stars Arizona gets are different the then 5 stars UNC, Duke, and Kansas get.legallykenny wrote:UNC has 6 McDonald's All-Americans on their roster this year, spread across classes. They seems to be much better about keeping kids around who don't get immediate playing time (rather than having them transfer out) and kids who aren't quite ready for the draft (Kobi will be our latest test case). Sean needs to take a step back and think about whether he's recruiting kids with the wrong attitude or if something he is doing is driving them to leave rather than wait the extra year.Bangkok Wildcat wrote:I wish Lauri well and he was a great Frosh player BUT I hate the whole 'one and dones' thing and he will be just like Bayless, Gordon and Johnson in that although I'm proud that they were Wildcats for a short time, I'm much more interested and invested in the TJs & Kadeems (with their redshirts included), Richard Jeffersons, Solomon Hills, Channing Fyre's, etc.
One year is just way to short to get to really appreciate a player enough to feel like they are a true Wildcat. 2 years is the bare minimum for me to get invested in a player.....which really sucks because I'd bet if Lauri had come back for even one more year, he could have gone down as one of the greatest Cats ever IMHO.
I really hope they adopt the Baseball / Football strategy soon....would much rather have players and teams for a minimum of 3 years and miss out on the 1 year superstuds.....how much time do we spend worrying about who's going pro or not???.....it's getting intolerable at this point and making me less of a fan....not to mention how much it would reduce the recruiting grind on the coaches and free them up for more ACTUAL coaching.
Am so envious of Gonzaga, UNC and NIKE U with their upper-classmen....it is so nostalgic and reminds me of back when I was at Arizona in the late 80's and early 90's......Man, that was so much fun to watch how the players and teams really developed from year to year..... nowadays top programs like ours almost feel like a semi-pro team vs a real university team. Smh.
I'm not sure on this. Just recently, Duke has had Thornton, Okafor, Jones, Winslow, Parker and Hood be on campus for only one year. Add in transfers like Jeter and they have more roster turnover than we give them credit for.CalStateTempe wrote:This has been my opinion for a while. I believe the 5 stars Arizona gets are different the then 5 stars UNC, Duke, and Kansas get.legallykenny wrote:UNC has 6 McDonald's All-Americans on their roster this year, spread across classes. They seems to be much better about keeping kids around who don't get immediate playing time (rather than having them transfer out) and kids who aren't quite ready for the draft (Kobi will be our latest test case). Sean needs to take a step back and think about whether he's recruiting kids with the wrong attitude or if something he is doing is driving them to leave rather than wait the extra year.Bangkok Wildcat wrote:I wish Lauri well and he was a great Frosh player BUT I hate the whole 'one and dones' thing and he will be just like Bayless, Gordon and Johnson in that although I'm proud that they were Wildcats for a short time, I'm much more interested and invested in the TJs & Kadeems (with their redshirts included), Richard Jeffersons, Solomon Hills, Channing Fyre's, etc.
One year is just way to short to get to really appreciate a player enough to feel like they are a true Wildcat. 2 years is the bare minimum for me to get invested in a player.....which really sucks because I'd bet if Lauri had come back for even one more year, he could have gone down as one of the greatest Cats ever IMHO.
I really hope they adopt the Baseball / Football strategy soon....would much rather have players and teams for a minimum of 3 years and miss out on the 1 year superstuds.....how much time do we spend worrying about who's going pro or not???.....it's getting intolerable at this point and making me less of a fan....not to mention how much it would reduce the recruiting grind on the coaches and free them up for more ACTUAL coaching.
Am so envious of Gonzaga, UNC and NIKE U with their upper-classmen....it is so nostalgic and reminds me of back when I was at Arizona in the late 80's and early 90's......Man, that was so much fun to watch how the players and teams really developed from year to year..... nowadays top programs like ours almost feel like a semi-pro team vs a real university team. Smh.
Minnesota's best player plays Lauri's position. The last time we had that happen, it didn't exactly help DWill. Plus, Thibs is notoriously hard on rookies. I'd prefer to see him elsewhere.Irish27 wrote:I think Minnesota would be a great fit for Lauri as there is a big Finnish population there.
Perhaps Miller isn't quite the recruiter than people hype him to be then if he's taking guys that are other school's 1-B choice because of red flags.Longhorned wrote:The whole reason Kobi and Alkins were available was because several other programs saw red flags. Those other programs got it wrong, especially with Alkins. But even with Kobi, it wasn't as if Miller took him ahead of somebody else. He came in, used the scholarship for one year and will give it back after a big-time performance at Pauley and a limited backup role thereafter. He's not keeping away any 2017 recruits.legallykenny wrote:UNC has 6 McDonald's All-Americans on their roster this year, spread across classes. They seems to be much better about keeping kids around who don't get immediate playing time (rather than having them transfer out) and kids who aren't quite ready for the draft (Kobi will be our latest test case). Sean needs to take a step back and think about whether he's recruiting kids with the wrong attitude or if something he is doing is driving them to leave rather than wait the extra year.Bangkok Wildcat wrote:I wish Lauri well and he was a great Frosh player BUT I hate the whole 'one and dones' thing and he will be just like Bayless, Gordon and Johnson in that although I'm proud that they were Wildcats for a short time, I'm much more interested and invested in the TJs & Kadeems (with their redshirts included), Richard Jeffersons, Solomon Hills, Channing Fyre's, etc.
One year is just way to short to get to really appreciate a player enough to feel like they are a true Wildcat. 2 years is the bare minimum for me to get invested in a player.....which really sucks because I'd bet if Lauri had come back for even one more year, he could have gone down as one of the greatest Cats ever IMHO.
I really hope they adopt the Baseball / Football strategy soon....would much rather have players and teams for a minimum of 3 years and miss out on the 1 year superstuds.....how much time do we spend worrying about who's going pro or not???.....it's getting intolerable at this point and making me less of a fan....not to mention how much it would reduce the recruiting grind on the coaches and free them up for more ACTUAL coaching.
Am so envious of Gonzaga, UNC and NIKE U with their upper-classmen....it is so nostalgic and reminds me of back when I was at Arizona in the late 80's and early 90's......Man, that was so much fun to watch how the players and teams really developed from year to year..... nowadays top programs like ours almost feel like a semi-pro team vs a real university team. Smh.
He really isn't. Last year, if you assume that Alkins and Simmons were that, you have Lauri and Ferguson. Beyond that, you have to go back years for anyone who fits that profile.legallykenny wrote:Perhaps Miller isn't quite the recruiter than people hype him to be then if he's taking guys that are other school's 1-B choice because of red flags.Longhorned wrote:The whole reason Kobi and Alkins were available was because several other programs saw red flags. Those other programs got it wrong, especially with Alkins. But even with Kobi, it wasn't as if Miller took him ahead of somebody else. He came in, used the scholarship for one year and will give it back after a big-time performance at Pauley and a limited backup role thereafter. He's not keeping away any 2017 recruits.legallykenny wrote:UNC has 6 McDonald's All-Americans on their roster this year, spread across classes. They seems to be much better about keeping kids around who don't get immediate playing time (rather than having them transfer out) and kids who aren't quite ready for the draft (Kobi will be our latest test case). Sean needs to take a step back and think about whether he's recruiting kids with the wrong attitude or if something he is doing is driving them to leave rather than wait the extra year.Bangkok Wildcat wrote:I wish Lauri well and he was a great Frosh player BUT I hate the whole 'one and dones' thing and he will be just like Bayless, Gordon and Johnson in that although I'm proud that they were Wildcats for a short time, I'm much more interested and invested in the TJs & Kadeems (with their redshirts included), Richard Jeffersons, Solomon Hills, Channing Fyre's, etc.
One year is just way to short to get to really appreciate a player enough to feel like they are a true Wildcat. 2 years is the bare minimum for me to get invested in a player.....which really sucks because I'd bet if Lauri had come back for even one more year, he could have gone down as one of the greatest Cats ever IMHO.
I really hope they adopt the Baseball / Football strategy soon....would much rather have players and teams for a minimum of 3 years and miss out on the 1 year superstuds.....how much time do we spend worrying about who's going pro or not???.....it's getting intolerable at this point and making me less of a fan....not to mention how much it would reduce the recruiting grind on the coaches and free them up for more ACTUAL coaching.
Am so envious of Gonzaga, UNC and NIKE U with their upper-classmen....it is so nostalgic and reminds me of back when I was at Arizona in the late 80's and early 90's......Man, that was so much fun to watch how the players and teams really developed from year to year..... nowadays top programs like ours almost feel like a semi-pro team vs a real university team. Smh.
That's fair. But he did beat out UNC for Markkanen, and Kansas for Ayton, and to me Alkins is a home run recruit. Otherwise, there may be a limit to how well anyone can recruit in the west and at programs other than Kansas, Kentucky, UNC, or Duke. In a different era, Lute was a master evaluator of upside, making up for the recruits he couldn't beat out UCLA for, and then developing that potential. I don't see that in Miller. Beyond the obvious focus on one-and-done talent, I'm unsure what his recruiting philosophy is. But the whole "witch" reputation has been undermined by the point guard situation.legallykenny wrote:Perhaps Miller isn't quite the recruiter than people hype him to be then if he's taking guys that are other school's 1-B choice because of red flags.Longhorned wrote:The whole reason Kobi and Alkins were available was because several other programs saw red flags. Those other programs got it wrong, especially with Alkins. But even with Kobi, it wasn't as if Miller took him ahead of somebody else. He came in, used the scholarship for one year and will give it back after a big-time performance at Pauley and a limited backup role thereafter. He's not keeping away any 2017 recruits.legallykenny wrote:UNC has 6 McDonald's All-Americans on their roster this year, spread across classes. They seems to be much better about keeping kids around who don't get immediate playing time (rather than having them transfer out) and kids who aren't quite ready for the draft (Kobi will be our latest test case). Sean needs to take a step back and think about whether he's recruiting kids with the wrong attitude or if something he is doing is driving them to leave rather than wait the extra year.Bangkok Wildcat wrote:I wish Lauri well and he was a great Frosh player BUT I hate the whole 'one and dones' thing and he will be just like Bayless, Gordon and Johnson in that although I'm proud that they were Wildcats for a short time, I'm much more interested and invested in the TJs & Kadeems (with their redshirts included), Richard Jeffersons, Solomon Hills, Channing Fyre's, etc.
One year is just way to short to get to really appreciate a player enough to feel like they are a true Wildcat. 2 years is the bare minimum for me to get invested in a player.....which really sucks because I'd bet if Lauri had come back for even one more year, he could have gone down as one of the greatest Cats ever IMHO.
I really hope they adopt the Baseball / Football strategy soon....would much rather have players and teams for a minimum of 3 years and miss out on the 1 year superstuds.....how much time do we spend worrying about who's going pro or not???.....it's getting intolerable at this point and making me less of a fan....not to mention how much it would reduce the recruiting grind on the coaches and free them up for more ACTUAL coaching.
Am so envious of Gonzaga, UNC and NIKE U with their upper-classmen....it is so nostalgic and reminds me of back when I was at Arizona in the late 80's and early 90's......Man, that was so much fun to watch how the players and teams really developed from year to year..... nowadays top programs like ours almost feel like a semi-pro team vs a real university team. Smh.
Perhaps, but I contend that Miller could beat Alford with UCLA's players against Alford coached Arizona players. And the same for Miller with Oregon players against Altman coached Arizona players. Alford has players fall into his lap because he's at UCLA. Altman had TWO sixth year seniors on his roster and hasn't dealt with any player attrition.Longhorned wrote:That's fair. But he did beat out UNC for Markkanen, and Kansas for Ayton, and to me Alkins is a home run recruit. Otherwise, there may be a limit to how well anyone can recruit in the west and at programs other than Kansas, Kentucky, UNC, or Duke. In a different era, Lute was a master evaluator of upside, making up for the recruits he couldn't beat out UCLA for, and then developing that potential. I don't see that in Miller. Beyond the obvious focus on one-and-done talent, I'm unsure what his recruiting philosophy is. But the whole "witch" reputation has been undermined by the point guard situation.legallykenny wrote:Perhaps Miller isn't quite the recruiter than people hype him to be then if he's taking guys that are other school's 1-B choice because of red flags.Longhorned wrote:The whole reason Kobi and Alkins were available was because several other programs saw red flags. Those other programs got it wrong, especially with Alkins. But even with Kobi, it wasn't as if Miller took him ahead of somebody else. He came in, used the scholarship for one year and will give it back after a big-time performance at Pauley and a limited backup role thereafter. He's not keeping away any 2017 recruits.legallykenny wrote:UNC has 6 McDonald's All-Americans on their roster this year, spread across classes. They seems to be much better about keeping kids around who don't get immediate playing time (rather than having them transfer out) and kids who aren't quite ready for the draft (Kobi will be our latest test case). Sean needs to take a step back and think about whether he's recruiting kids with the wrong attitude or if something he is doing is driving them to leave rather than wait the extra year.Bangkok Wildcat wrote:I wish Lauri well and he was a great Frosh player BUT I hate the whole 'one and dones' thing and he will be just like Bayless, Gordon and Johnson in that although I'm proud that they were Wildcats for a short time, I'm much more interested and invested in the TJs & Kadeems (with their redshirts included), Richard Jeffersons, Solomon Hills, Channing Fyre's, etc.
One year is just way to short to get to really appreciate a player enough to feel like they are a true Wildcat. 2 years is the bare minimum for me to get invested in a player.....which really sucks because I'd bet if Lauri had come back for even one more year, he could have gone down as one of the greatest Cats ever IMHO.
I really hope they adopt the Baseball / Football strategy soon....would much rather have players and teams for a minimum of 3 years and miss out on the 1 year superstuds.....how much time do we spend worrying about who's going pro or not???.....it's getting intolerable at this point and making me less of a fan....not to mention how much it would reduce the recruiting grind on the coaches and free them up for more ACTUAL coaching.
Am so envious of Gonzaga, UNC and NIKE U with their upper-classmen....it is so nostalgic and reminds me of back when I was at Arizona in the late 80's and early 90's......Man, that was so much fun to watch how the players and teams really developed from year to year..... nowadays top programs like ours almost feel like a semi-pro team vs a real university team. Smh.
The bolded is ridiculouszonagrad wrote: Perhaps, but I contend that Miller could beat Alford with UCLA's players against Alford coached Arizona players. And the same for Miller with Oregon players against Altman coached Arizona players. Alford has players fall into his lap because he's at UCLA. Altman had TWO sixth year seniors on his roster and hasn't dealt with any player attrition.
I disagree. Altman had a better roster composition, had no injuries or suspensions and saw close to identical results. I know it's chic to kiss Altman right now, but the amount of adversity wasn't close and Oregon's FF masks that they almost went out in the round of 32 and 16.NYCat wrote:The bolded is ridiculouszonagrad wrote: Perhaps, but I contend that Miller could beat Alford with UCLA's players against Alford coached Arizona players. And the same for Miller with Oregon players against Altman coached Arizona players. Alford has players fall into his lap because he's at UCLA. Altman had TWO sixth year seniors on his roster and hasn't dealt with any player attrition.
Altman is a better x & Os coach than Miller. He'd win with Arizona players. And now Altman is starting to recruit.
Ferguson was clearly a red flag - no interest in going to school.Spaceman Spiff wrote:He really isn't. Last year, if you assume that Alkins and Simmons were that, you have Lauri and Ferguson. Beyond that, you have to go back years for anyone who fits that profile.legallykenny wrote:
Perhaps Miller isn't quite the recruiter than people hype him to be then if he's taking guys that are other school's 1-B choice because of red flags.
Year before, Trier/Simon/Smith/Comanche, no red flags. If you want Ray's health, he was in the fold prior to knee injury #1.
Year prior, Stanley/Victor/Dusan/PJC/Allen.
There just isn't much truth to it.
Top bad Portland has gone on this run because they'd be a good fitSpaceman Spiff wrote:Minnesota's best player plays Lauri's position. The last time we had that happen, it didn't exactly help DWill. Plus, Thibs is notoriously hard on rookies. I'd prefer to see him elsewhere.Irish27 wrote:I think Minnesota would be a great fit for Lauri as there is a big Finnish population there.
Kadeem Allen had an offer Kansas.legallykenny wrote:Ferguson was clearly a red flag - no interest in going to school.Spaceman Spiff wrote:He really isn't. Last year, if you assume that Alkins and Simmons were that, you have Lauri and Ferguson. Beyond that, you have to go back years for anyone who fits that profile.legallykenny wrote:
Perhaps Miller isn't quite the recruiter than people hype him to be then if he's taking guys that are other school's 1-B choice because of red flags.
Year before, Trier/Simon/Smith/Comanche, no red flags. If you want Ray's health, he was in the fold prior to knee injury #1.
Year prior, Stanley/Victor/Dusan/PJC/Allen.
There just isn't much truth to it.
Simon and Victor were both projects who weren't willing to wait. What makes you certain that other schools didn't see that?
Allen and PJC weren't top 10 program talents.
Feel free to disagree. But Altman had two SIXTH-year seniors in Dylan Ennis and Chris Boucher. These guys are 25 years old!!!! Arizona was relying on three 19 year olds most of the season, until a 21 year old Trier returned from a 19 game suspension. And yet Miller still coached his way to a 16-2 record & tied Oregon for the regular season title, and beat Oregon in the conference tourney.NYCat wrote:The bolded is ridiculouszonagrad wrote: Perhaps, but I contend that Miller could beat Alford with UCLA's players against Alford coached Arizona players. And the same for Miller with Oregon players against Altman coached Arizona players. Alford has players fall into his lap because he's at UCLA. Altman had TWO sixth year seniors on his roster and hasn't dealt with any player attrition.
Altman is a better X & Os coach than Miller. He'd win with Arizona players. And now Altman is starting to recruit.
That's monday morning quarterbacking or revisionist history, IMO.legallykenny wrote:Ferguson was clearly a red flag - no interest in going to school.Spaceman Spiff wrote:He really isn't. Last year, if you assume that Alkins and Simmons were that, you have Lauri and Ferguson. Beyond that, you have to go back years for anyone who fits that profile.legallykenny wrote:
Perhaps Miller isn't quite the recruiter than people hype him to be then if he's taking guys that are other school's 1-B choice because of red flags.
Year before, Trier/Simon/Smith/Comanche, no red flags. If you want Ray's health, he was in the fold prior to knee injury #1.
Year prior, Stanley/Victor/Dusan/PJC/Allen.
There just isn't much truth to it.
Simon and Victor were both projects who weren't willing to wait. What makes you certain that other schools didn't see that?
Allen and PJC weren't top 10 program talents.
Yup, but don't worry, I was assured by a few on here that Oregon going to the FF wouldn't affect the recruiting pecking order in the West.NYCat wrote:The bolded is ridiculouszonagrad wrote: Perhaps, but I contend that Miller could beat Alford with UCLA's players against Alford coached Arizona players. And the same for Miller with Oregon players against Altman coached Arizona players. Alford has players fall into his lap because he's at UCLA. Altman had TWO sixth year seniors on his roster and hasn't dealt with any player attrition.
Altman is a better X & Os coach than Miller. He'd win with Arizona players. And now Altman is starting to recruit.
I don't mean this in a weird way, but you had me at that post.zonagrad wrote:Feel free to disagree. But Altman had two SIXTH-year seniors in Dylan Ennis and Chris Boucher. These guys are 25 years old!!!! Arizona was relying on three 19 year olds most of the season, until a 21 year old Trier returned from a 19 game suspension. And yet Miller still coached his way to a 16-2 record & tied Oregon for the regular season title, and beat Oregon in the conference tourney.NYCat wrote:The bolded is ridiculouszonagrad wrote: Perhaps, but I contend that Miller could beat Alford with UCLA's players against Alford coached Arizona players. And the same for Miller with Oregon players against Altman coached Arizona players. Alford has players fall into his lap because he's at UCLA. Altman had TWO sixth year seniors on his roster and hasn't dealt with any player attrition.
Altman is a better X & Os coach than Miller. He'd win with Arizona players. And now Altman is starting to recruit.
Boucher was the juco player of the year. Ennis was a top guy before he transferred to Oregon. Neither is really an example of a reach or development.NYCat wrote:Bell 4* was ranked #101, Brooks a 4* was ranked #97, Boucher was unranked, Ennis was a 3* who signed with Rice initially iirc, Dorsey was the only high prospect and a 5*, Pritchard 4* ranked #54 etc. Obviously because they weren't high prospects​ they stayed for a while.
He did better with an ok roster talent wise (yes a bunch of old dudes), Miller you argue did what he was supposed to do with top ranked recruiting classes and talent.
It was a nice two year run.
Boucher went down they still made the final four vs really good Kansas team, not only beat them but dominated. Miller lost Ashley but had a bunch of 5* left (Zeus, Gordon, rhj, NJ) and still lost.
But this is mostly a wait and see what Altman does with top talent. What happens when he gets years of straight top 5 classes and what he does with them.
Or maybe Altman is better at roster building, which I'm not the biggest fan of Miller's.
Agree. But I've been accused (not on this board) of drinking the Miller Kool Aid. When you look at the totality of injuries (Ashley) and dumb luck (Jerrett transferring), as well as players leaving early that still don't appear NBA ready (Stanley Johnson), it's amazing that Arizona continues to contend EVERY, SINGLE YEAR.RaisingArizona wrote:This board is way too bearish on Coach Miller right now. There is no way in hell that I'd trade him for Altman. Altman is a damn good coach, but elevating him above Miller based off of one final four run is not something that I'm willing to do.
You're not making the point you think you are. When we took Ferguson he wasn't eligible. Based on the trends, my belief is that we went harder than other schools did despite the risk. I think the same thing happened with Ayton but there it looks like it will actually pay off.Spaceman Spiff wrote:That's monday morning quarterbacking or revisionist history, IMO.legallykenny wrote:Ferguson was clearly a red flag - no interest in going to school.Spaceman Spiff wrote:He really isn't. Last year, if you assume that Alkins and Simmons were that, you have Lauri and Ferguson. Beyond that, you have to go back years for anyone who fits that profile.legallykenny wrote:
Perhaps Miller isn't quite the recruiter than people hype him to be then if he's taking guys that are other school's 1-B choice because of red flags.
Year before, Trier/Simon/Smith/Comanche, no red flags. If you want Ray's health, he was in the fold prior to knee injury #1.
Year prior, Stanley/Victor/Dusan/PJC/Allen.
There just isn't much truth to it.
Simon and Victor were both projects who weren't willing to wait. What makes you certain that other schools didn't see that?
Allen and PJC weren't top 10 program talents.
Ferguson spent several months after graduation trying to get eligible and left when he couldn't. We were worried about KU or UNC swiping him, and Baylor was on him hard.
Simon and Victor were projects, but we were far from the only team in on either. When you speculate other teams saw that, I would refer to your praise for Duke and how Chase Jeter has worked for them. Maybe projects aren't an exact science.
Kadeem was the national Juco POY and Parker was the #50 recruit nationally on 24/7 composite. Saying either was clearly not our level...well, that is a legit pedigree.
Ferguson was never formally declared ineligible. Arizona took him thinking that the NCAA would look more favorably on API than they did. I just don't think you're right. KU backed off a bit due to Jackson committing, but it was likely a situation where Jackson and Ferguson were going KU or Arizona, and Feguson was wherever Jackson wasn't.legallykenny wrote:You're not making the point you think you are. When we took Ferguson he wasn't eligible. Based on the trends, my belief is that we went harder than other schools did despite the risk. I think the same thing happened with Ayton but there it looks like it will actually pay off.Spaceman Spiff wrote:That's monday morning quarterbacking or revisionist history, IMO.legallykenny wrote:Ferguson was clearly a red flag - no interest in going to school.Spaceman Spiff wrote:He really isn't. Last year, if you assume that Alkins and Simmons were that, you have Lauri and Ferguson. Beyond that, you have to go back years for anyone who fits that profile.legallykenny wrote:
Perhaps Miller isn't quite the recruiter than people hype him to be then if he's taking guys that are other school's 1-B choice because of red flags.
Year before, Trier/Simon/Smith/Comanche, no red flags. If you want Ray's health, he was in the fold prior to knee injury #1.
Year prior, Stanley/Victor/Dusan/PJC/Allen.
There just isn't much truth to it.
Simon and Victor were both projects who weren't willing to wait. What makes you certain that other schools didn't see that?
Allen and PJC weren't top 10 program talents.
Ferguson spent several months after graduation trying to get eligible and left when he couldn't. We were worried about KU or UNC swiping him, and Baylor was on him hard.
Simon and Victor were projects, but we were far from the only team in on either. When you speculate other teams saw that, I would refer to your praise for Duke and how Chase Jeter has worked for them. Maybe projects aren't an exact science.
Kadeem was the national Juco POY and Parker was the #50 recruit nationally on 24/7 composite. Saying either was clearly not our level...well, that is a legit pedigree.
Duke got one more year out of Jeter than Arizona got out of Simon and Victor. He's pretty much proved that he's useless. Simon and Victor still showed potential but left anyway. Better talent evaluation by Miller than K on that one (though Miller chased Jeter hard too) but much worse man and roster management by Miller.
To me, Allen is another example of us going harder after a marginal player. As I recall we were in on him earlier than other schools.