Arizona v. UK Starting 5

Bosy Billups · Post by **Bosy Billups** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:29 am

According to Kentucky, we're cute and TJMC wouldn't even be a ball boy on Kentucky's team.

https://kentucky.rivals.com/showmsg.asp ... 88&style=2

PS - The whole offense argument, do people realize we don't even need that much if we're holding opponents to 50-60 points?

LBdCactus · Post by **LBdCactus** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:44 am

Is it weird that in my head, when reading that thread, every time I see the word "bench" I hear "binch". As in, "Awwwwman... our binch is deep, boy!"

midnightx · Post by **midnightx** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:55 am

Didn't Calipari recently say that AZ should be preseason number one? That should settle it.

Alieberman · Post by **Alieberman** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:08 am

So UK Cats fans think they should be #1 and AZ Cats fans think they should be #1.

Amazing.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:53 am

Perhaps we will play at some point in the tourney and it will be settled. Until then, I don't give one single fuck about UK's starting 5.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:55 am

Vegas has UK 3/1 to win the NC. Maybe not just top 5, but bench, coaching and so on.

loomer · Post by **loomer** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:00 am

Seth Davis ✔ @SethDavisHoops
Follow
NBA scout today who has seen both teams told me Kentucky is "way better" than Arizona--and Arizona will be No. 2 or No. 3 in the preseason.
5:48 PM - 27 Oct 2014

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:03 am

Awesome tweet by the biggest douche in CBB.

Good thing for us is that an NBA scout knows absolutely nothing about a team in college basketball. He's there to evaluate NBA talent.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:29 am

Kentucky is full-blown greatness 1-5. Whereas you'd rather not have a 5th year senior point guard, Ashley and Tarc as upperclassmen, and Stanley Johnson and Rondae Hollis-Jefferson on the wing.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:34 am

Both teams look great. Hopefully we can settle this on the court.

cats101 · Post by **cats101** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:36 am

Kentucky should have no problem going "40-0!!!"

baycat93 · Post by **baycat93** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:39 am

Longhorned wrote:Kentucky is full-blown greatness 1-5. Whereas you'd rather not have a 5th year senior point guard, Ashley and Tarc as upperclassmen, and Stanley Johnson and Rondae Hollis-Jefferson on the wing.

This is where the difference really is. I don't think there is much debate the UK starting 5 (or bench for that matter) has more long term playing and earning potential. And may be the better starting 5 now. Still, it is a college game that will take place in the immediate future. The "make-up" of our starting 5 within the system and game is arguably superior.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:54 am

Not just Kentucky, but against any Final Four calibre team, Arizona will defend well, but they'll also need to stay out of foul trouble and have a "feelin'-it" night from its bench players on the wing.

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:01 pm

Bosy Billups wrote:According to Kentucky, we're cute and TJMC wouldn't even be a ball boy on Kentucky's team.

https://kentucky.rivals.com/showmsg.asp ... 88&style=2

PS - The whole offense argument, do people realize we don't even need that much if we're holding opponents to 50-60 points?

I heard they have chemistry issues.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:03 pm

UK also has extra practices and exhibition games during the summer. However, they did lose to a fresh Dominican Republic national team after a brutal schedule.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:52 pm

TJ McConnell is a 5th year senior.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 1:29 pm

Bosy Billups wrote:According to Kentucky, we're cute and TJMC wouldn't even be a ball boy on Kentucky's team.

https://kentucky.rivals.com/showmsg.asp ... 88&style=2

PS - The whole offense argument, do people realize we don't even need that much if we're holding opponents to 50-60 points?

Sure, but does UK suffer from our chemistry issues, which may or may not exist?

Oh, Eebs beat me to it!

Alieberman wrote:So UK Cats fans think they should be #1 and AZ Cats fans think they should be #1.

Amazing.

I'm sensing a lack of appreciation for this thread.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 1:43 pm

Solution? Duke for #1, baby!

Daryl Zero · Post by **Daryl Zero** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:01 pm

Its absolutely clear to me that the Wildcats have the best lineup.

JMarkJohns · Post by **JMarkJohns** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:09 pm

Not concerned about what opposing fans think.
Certainly not concerned about what anonymous scouts as cited by douchebags think.

Facts are no team can match Arizona's size, lottory wing talent, and experience.

Still gotta earn it.

How Coach Sean Miller approaches that journey is all I'm concerned with.

UofAlum05 · Post by **UofAlum05** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:31 pm

loomer wrote:
Seth Davis ✔ @SethDavisHoops
Follow
NBA scout today who has seen both teams told me Kentucky is "way better" than Arizona--and Arizona will be No. 2 or No. 3 in the preseason.
5:48 PM - 27 Oct 2014

As many posters know I am a very happy resident of Manhattan Beach, CA. The beach town in the past few years has become a popular residence of former/current college and NBA coaches and players. The other day I was walking back to my house when I noticed a car visibly illegally parked. I mean right in front of a restaurant on a big bright red line and fire hydrant without a meter. A ticket meter dude was blocking the car in and writing a ticket. The owner of the car was multi-tasking by yelling at the Meter maid and yelling at his attorney on the phone that he wanted to "sue the whole city of Manhattan Beach." The owner of the car was also yelling at the meter maid with a "do you know who I am" type context. The owner of that car...................Seth Davis.

PieceOfMeat · Post by **PieceOfMeat** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:44 pm

UofAlum05 wrote:
loomer wrote:
Seth Davis ✔ @SethDavisHoops
Follow
NBA scout today who has seen both teams told me Kentucky is "way better" than Arizona--and Arizona will be No. 2 or No. 3 in the preseason.
5:48 PM - 27 Oct 2014
As many posters know I am a very happy resident of Manhattan Beach, CA. The beach town in the past few years has become a popular residence of former/current college and NBA coaches and players. The other day I was walking back to my house when I noticed a car visibly illegally parked. I mean right in front of a restaurant on a big bright red line and fire hydrant without a meter. A ticket meter dude was blocking the car in and writing a ticket. The owner of the car was multi-tasking by yelling at the Meter maid and yelling at his attorney on the phone that he wanted to "sue the whole city of Manhattan Beach." The owner of the car was also yelling at the meter maid with a "do you know who I am" type context. The owner of that car...................Seth Davis.

where's the cell phone video?

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:00 pm

I was thinking Kevin O'Neill, not sure why.

Does he live in MB in some penthouse condo?

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:22 pm

UofAlum05 wrote:
loomer wrote:
Seth Davis ✔ @SethDavisHoops
Follow
NBA scout today who has seen both teams told me Kentucky is "way better" than Arizona--and Arizona will be No. 2 or No. 3 in the preseason.
5:48 PM - 27 Oct 2014
As many posters know I am a very happy resident of Manhattan Beach, CA. The beach town in the past few years has become a popular residence of former/current college and NBA coaches and players. The other day I was walking back to my house when I noticed a car visibly illegally parked. I mean right in front of a restaurant on a big bright red line and fire hydrant without a meter. A ticket meter dude was blocking the car in and writing a ticket. The owner of the car was multi-tasking by yelling at the Meter maid and yelling at his attorney on the phone that he wanted to "sue the whole city of Manhattan Beach." The owner of the car was also yelling at the meter maid with a "do you know who I am" type context. The owner of that car...................Seth Davis.

Great post. Sharpie.

CBCat · Post by **CBCat** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:48 pm

JMarkJohns wrote:Not concerned about what opposing fans think.
Certainly not concerned about what anonymous scouts as cited by douchebags think.

Facts are no team can match Arizona's size, lottory wing talent, and experience.

Still gotta earn it.

How Coach Sean Miller approaches that journey is all I'm concerned with.

Will CSM "loosen up a bit?" Is this the year...?

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:56 pm

CBCat wrote:
JMarkJohns wrote:Not concerned about what opposing fans think.
Certainly not concerned about what anonymous scouts as cited by douchebags think.

Facts are no team can match Arizona's size, lottory wing talent, and experience.

Still gotta earn it.

How Coach Sean Miller approaches that journey is all I'm concerned with.
Will CSM "loosen up a bit?" Is this the year...?

He said last year he made a mistake in not developing a bench after BAsh's injury, so he might loosen up that aspect. But really doubt we will ever see any real effort for a zone. So loosening up on needing to buy into his system.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:57 pm

Merkin wrote:
CBCat wrote:
JMarkJohns wrote:Not concerned about what opposing fans think.
Certainly not concerned about what anonymous scouts as cited by douchebags think.

Facts are no team can match Arizona's size, lottory wing talent, and experience.

Still gotta earn it.

How Coach Sean Miller approaches that journey is all I'm concerned with.
Will CSM "loosen up a bit?" Is this the year...?

He said last year he made a mistake in not developing a bench after BAsh's injury, so he might loosen up that aspect. But really doubt we will ever see any real effort for a zone. So loosening up on needing to buy into his system.

He also said he learned alot coaching with the USA team this summer and watching some opposing coaches and the way they coached.

Defense will be the same, he's committed to that.

UofAlum05 · Post by **UofAlum05** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:18 pm

Merkin wrote:I was thinking Kevin O'Neill, not sure why.

Does he live in MB in some penthouse condo?

He has a condo in downtown LA.

97cats · Post by **97cats** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:21 pm

6ish players and no zone

32+ wins

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:32 pm

UofAlum05 wrote:
Merkin wrote:I was thinking Kevin O'Neill, not sure why.

Does he live in MB in some penthouse condo?
He has a condo in downtown LA.

A Brief Reminder That Kevin O'Neill Is One Of College Basketball's All-Time Dickheads

http://deadspin.com/5781089/a-reminder- ... t-assholes

Bosy Billups · Post by **Bosy Billups** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:33 pm

97cats wrote:6ish players and no zone

32+ wins

That would be ideal, barring health. Who are the 6-7? Pitts & Allen?

#threadstarter #role

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:41 pm

York is 6

PieceOfMeat · Post by **PieceOfMeat** » Wed Oct 29, 2014 8:40 am

97cats wrote:6ish players and no zone

32+ wins

I don't think having 6 players gets us where we want to go.

Better be at least 7, with a capable when he must be 8th.

HiCat · Post by **HiCat** » Wed Oct 29, 2014 8:48 am

8 man rotation pretty cool. Enough depth for March - April, but enough minutes to go around?

UofAlum05 · Post by **UofAlum05** » Wed Oct 29, 2014 8:52 am

Kentucky doesn't have Ristic!!!

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Wed Oct 29, 2014 10:41 am

6 will get majority of minutes, but I bet 8 play regularly.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Wed Oct 29, 2014 12:31 pm

With six, you get eggroll.

salim'sheadband · Post by **salim'sheadband** » Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:16 pm

I don't particularly care what the most delusional fan base in the world thinks, nor Douche Davis, nor anonymous NBA scout who probably would have said the same thing last year.

Here's what I think: invincible Kentucky has some serious problems that, while not fatal to a successful season, will have to be ironed out for them to win. I've said this other places so forgive me if you've read it elsewhere:

1) If reports are to be believed, Hawkins is their best defender, Booker is their best shooter, and Ulis is their best point guard. None of those guys are name Harrison. Cal didn't have anyone to spell them last year, but he does this year - how will they take it? And how will those other guys take it when they're not on the court and feel like they should be?

2) They don't have anyone to guard positions 1-3. The Harrisons aren't good defenders (if on the floor); Poythress is basically Derrick Williams or Brandon Ashley at the 3. You are who you guard, and there are going to be some mismatches for them on that end. I'm sure WCS is going to help clean up some mistakes on defense, but how sustainable is that. They were a mediocre defensive team last year - how much better do they get?

3) Too many dudes. Just too many bigs. They're not going to play WCS and Towns and Lyles and Johnson and Lee and Willis. Someone, probably two or three bigs, sits which means someone's not happy. How is Johnson going to feel being relegated to the bench behind Towns and Lyles when he played very well in limited minutes last year? How are they going to deal with that? The "disease of me" in full effect.

In 2012 they had the perfect number of guys, like we did last year, but we got the injury they avoided in 2012, which also just so happened to culminate in the worst possible matchup for us for who we lost and our remaining available personnel (Kaminsky, who Ashley could have guarded). I don't care if they have the best 1-12 in basketball. History has proven time and time and time again that you only need the best 6.5, and I still think that's us.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:24 pm

Good points SHB.

I like that Douche Davis qualifies himself by saying we would have won it all last year with Bash.

I can't wait to see Cal attempt the "platooning" that he's talked about...although I think it is all hot air, just as most of what he says is. I agree that it is next to impossible to keep all those guys happy, when they are on the bench. Hell, I am worried about it on our own team and the bench at UA hasn't nearly gotten the acclaim that UK has.

I can't wait until UK drops their first game, and then their second...and god forbid if those losses come one after another. Everyone has conveniently forgotten the grumbles out of Lexington last year prior to Selection Sunday...

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Wed Oct 29, 2014 2:22 pm

Douche. That's gotta hurt.

OTOH, if the Harrison Twins aren't the best at those particular skills, then, wow, they've really added to the team. Chemistry notwithstanding.

salim'sheadband · Post by **salim'sheadband** » Wed Oct 29, 2014 7:20 pm

gumby wrote:Douche. That's gotta hurt.

OTOH, if the Harrison Twins aren't the best at those particular skills, then, wow, they've really added to the team. Chemistry notwithstanding.

Missed you too Gumby.

Coop Cat · Post by **Coop Cat** » Wed Nov 05, 2014 11:55 am

From Chad Ford ESPN chat today:

Rick (Tucson)

Sean Miller has repeatedly said Kaleb T. is the most improved player for Arizona (it usually takes bigs a little more time to develop) and if this is true what is his draft ceiling?

Chad Ford

He's an athletic 7 footer. Scouts are more patient with them. If he really comes on this year, he could be a lottery pick. No question.

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/ ... -chad-ford

3goggles · Post by **3goggles** » Wed Nov 05, 2014 12:10 pm

He also said this

Mike (queens) [via mobile]
Kelly Oubre or Stanley Johnson who's the best wing in the draft?
Chad Ford 1:46 PM ET
I have Oubre ranked slightly ahead of Johnson -- primarily because Oubre is a better perimeter shooter. Both are ranked as Top 10 picks.

Jefe · Post by **Jefe** » Wed Nov 05, 2014 12:30 pm

Oubre likes to launch, thats for sure

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:40 am

salim'sheadband wrote:I don't particularly care what the most delusional fan base in the world thinks, nor Douche Davis, nor anonymous NBA scout who probably would have said the same thing last year.

Here's what I think: invincible Kentucky has some serious problems that, while not fatal to a successful season, will have to be ironed out for them to win. I've said this other places so forgive me if you've read it elsewhere:

1) If reports are to be believed, Hawkins is their best defender, Booker is their best shooter, and Ulis is their best point guard. None of those guys are name Harrison. Cal didn't have anyone to spell them last year, but he does this year - how will they take it? And how will those other guys take it when they're not on the court and feel like they should be?

2) They don't have anyone to guard positions 1-3. The Harrisons aren't good defenders (if on the floor); Poythress is basically Derrick Williams or Brandon Ashley at the 3. You are who you guard, and there are going to be some mismatches for them on that end. I'm sure WCS is going to help clean up some mistakes on defense, but how sustainable is that. They were a mediocre defensive team last year - how much better do they get?

3) Too many dudes. Just too many bigs. They're not going to play WCS and Towns and Lyles and Johnson and Lee and Willis. Someone, probably two or three bigs, sits which means someone's not happy. How is Johnson going to feel being relegated to the bench behind Towns and Lyles when he played very well in limited minutes last year? How are they going to deal with that? The "disease of me" in full effect.

In 2012 they had the perfect number of guys, like we did last year, but we got the injury they avoided in 2012, which also just so happened to culminate in the worst possible matchup for us for who we lost and our remaining available personnel (Kaminsky, who Ashley could have guarded). I don't care if they have the best 1-12 in basketball. History has proven time and time and time again that you only need the best 6.5, and I still think that's us.

Regarding defenses, check out SI and Luke Winn's stuff. Interesting, but new predictive models can be a bit, ah, unpredictive.

http://www.si.com/college-basketball/20 ... es-preview

Nutshell: UK improves slightly, and UA regresses slightly (mostly due to regression toward our historic mean), but UA still predicted significantly better on D.

Best 6.5? Nah, haven't ever and still don't buy that. Perhaps if you get to a single game scenario with your best six intact then I would agree, but from the perspective of the preseason, quality depth becomes very, very important. Last year being only a single piece of many similar pieces of evidence to support my position. I hope Miller finds enough minutes for at least the first three bench players.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:42 am

How many days until I hear something like "Well it will take time to gel".

catgrad97 · Post by **catgrad97** » Thu Nov 06, 2014 10:28 am

Arizona went all the way through the championship with an eight-man rotation in '97. Two of the bench players were bigs.

Unless the basketball gods have it out for us, we have all seen more than enough of what CSM has done to know this season will be no regression, but a breakthrough.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Thu Nov 06, 2014 10:38 am

catgrad97 wrote:Arizona went all the way through the championship with an eight-man rotation in '97. Two of the bench players were bigs.

Unless the basketball gods have it out for us, we have all seen more than enough of what CSM has done to know this season will be no regression, but a breakthrough.

My comments were towards the UK program. Not UA.

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