40 Minute Bird Scores - Cal State Northridge

[KaibabKat]

As of 8:00 PM MST

30.9 Rondae Hollis-Jefferson
28.6 Parker Jackson-Cartwright
25.0 Craig Victor
18.6 Brandon Ashley
17.4 T.J. McConnell
15.0 Elliott Pitts
12.8 Stanley Johnson
9.1 Gabe York
8.9 Dusan Ristic
1.7 Kaleb Tarczewski
0.0 Matt Korcheck
0.0 DrewMellon
-40.0 Trey Mason
-40.0 Jacb Hazzard

72 Arizona TEAM
44 CS Northridge TEAM

BIRD Score = 40*[(Points +Rebounds + Assists + Blocks + Steals - Missed Shots - Turnovers - Personal Fouls)/(Minutes Played)]

[Longhorned]

Tarc looked like about a 1.7 tonight.

[PieceOfMeat]

Start PJC and Victor!

[catgrad97]

Tarc looked like about a 1.7 tonight.

It wouldn't surprise me to see our best overall lineup this year be minus Tarc and with Rondae and Ashley up front

Incidentally, box score said we were 62 percent from the FT line tonight. My first thought was, "We were that GOOD?"

[CBCat]

Tarc looked like about a 1.7 tonight.

Man he did not look good tonight.

[gumby]

Bird minus garbage time. Bird plus playing team defense correctly. I want this for Christmas. When Miller talks about people not understanding the impact of Tarc, he's thinking of thinking like Catgrad97's.

[gumby]

Start PJC and Victor!

Yes! But you just watch. It will be TJ and Tarc. So stubborn.

[PieceOfMeat]

Start PJC and Victor!

Yes! But you just watch. It will be TJ and Tarrc. So stubborn.

I know, he didn't even start Korcheck after his awesome game 1 bird score.

what the hell?!?!

[SCCat]

Bird minus garbage time. Bird plus playing team defense correctly. I want this for Christmas. When Miller talks about people not understanding the impact of Tarc, he's thinking of thinking like Catgrad97's.

People understand the impact: he's a good defender. But as a five star junior he should be ripping it up and he isn't. And my wonder more and more about our slow offensive starts is whether Tarc might be a significant contributing factor.

[gumby]

I've come to the realization that he is this player. He won't be ripping it up offensively. The only thing that marks him as an early departure is the 5 star rating from three years ago. I put more stock in the 100 or so games since.

He's a four year player. In an earlier time, there would be no question about it. Horne was a 5 star. I ceased waiting for that long before he left. This is who Tarc is. It's something most teams would dearly love to have. I'm not going to bang on him for something he's not. He couldn't be in better shape, so no gain to be had there. He simply doesn't have the hands, hops and finishing skills to be featured. So being a pain in the ass defensively is what I want. And he is.

Our slow starts have been marked by turnovers. I don't believe he's the cause.

[Longhorned]

I don't ever remember Tarc looking good against small lineups. But it doesn't matter because we don't lose to small lineups.

Tarc is indispensable. His defense is superb. And except for last night, he scores in double digits by drawing fouls and being reliable at the stripe. He's a 4-year player, but that doesn't guarantee Arizona a 4th year from him. If he does stay, we're lucky because the math actually does work even with our recruiting hopes.

[SCCat]

I've come to the realization that he is this player. He won't be ripping it up offensively. The only thing that marks him as an early departure is the 5 star rating from three years ago. I put more stock in the 100 or so games since.

He's a four year player. In an earlier time, there would be no question about it. Horne was a 5 star. I ceased waiting for that long before he left. This is who Tarc is. It's something most teams would dearly love to have. I'm not going to bang on him for something he's not. He couldn't be in better shape, so no gain to be had there. He simply doesn't have the hands, hops and finishing skills to be featured. So being a pain in the ass deensively is what I want. And he is.

You are 100% right and I 100% agree with you. We need to drop the 5 star; now it's just "our good defensive center." But what I would say is Tarc still gets defended in that way. "You want to bring in ... over our five star center?" I would say there are some places where it might be appropriate to sacrifice a little bit of defense for a little more offense by having someone else in there other than our defensive center.

Our slow starts have been marked by turnovers. I don't believe he's the cause.

When you're playing four offensive players against five defensive players spacing can start to become an issue, which leads to turnovers.

[Airizona]

I don't ever remember Tarc looking good against small lineups. But it doesn't matter because we don't lose to small lineups.

Tarc is indispensable. His defense is superb. And except for last night, he scores in double digits by drawing fouls and being reliable at the stripe. He's a 4-year player, but that doesn't guarantee Arizona a 4th year from him. If he does stay, we're lucky because the math actually does work even with our recruiting hopes.

Agreed. How quickly people forget about the double double he posted on Friday night (that is 2 days people...come on). Tarc frequently had to guard a player who was much quicker than him and he has struggled in games like that. Not only that, but I swear the fouls that go against him when he is guarding someone smaller than him are so ticky tacky. It seems like he starts off the game as the power center that he is and then fouls/game flow against smaller opponents turn him into a player who is just trying not to foul.

[Olsondogg]

Zeus is arguably the most important player on the team. The argument could be made in favor of TJ, but I'd side with Zeus.

If people want to complain, go for it. But this team is not going anywhere it wants without Zeus on the floor prominently.

[SCCat]

Tarc frequently had to guard a player who was much quicker than him and he has struggled in games like that.

So now it's "well the other guy is quicker so what can Tarc do?"

Come on man.

Ok so let's assume this is an issue. If Tarc is matched up with a smaller, quicker guy, shouldn't we look to play someone else smaller and quicker as the other team has negated Tarc's advantage (that he's a good defensive player) and take this "mismatch" out of the equation? Because Tarc isn't creating any mismatches on the offensive end, regardless of who's covering him.

[catgrad97]

I'm not blind to Tarc's defensive impact, gumby. Between he, Ashley and Rondae, he does what he did last season with Gordon and make the lane virtually impenetrable.

So I'm not whispering a word about Tarc's starting job. It is safe, and probably always will be as long as he's here.

But as I have said on other threads, he WAS far more aggressive on offense a year ago. Quick catches and dunks (or at least attempts). Solid FT shooting. High reach and grip for rebounds. Even a couple of blocks here and there.

Then about late February, it seems, the refs got in his head for good. He got tired of getting PO'd at calls for hedges and his opponents' flops. He doesn't bull his way to the hoop even for boards like he used to. He never got to use his massiveness near the bucket to his advantage, so he backed off and really hasn't displayed many post moves since. Plus his FT percentage has suffered.

No, I'm not calling for Tarc's head. I saw the beast he was shaping into prior to the Ashley injury. Where did that go? He needs to bring it back, because it's only his future that will suffer if he doesn't.

[dcZONAfan]

Tarc frequently had to guard a player who was much quicker than him and he has struggled in games like that.

So now it's "well the other guy is quicker so what can Tarc do?"

Come on man.

Ok so let's assume this is an issue. If Tarc is matched up with a smaller, quicker guy, shouldn't we look to play someone else smaller and quicker as the other team has negated Tarc's advantage (that he's a good defensive player) and take this "mismatch" out of the equation? Because Tarc isn't creating any mismatches on the offensive end, regardless of who's covering him.

I'm curious: do you just happen to not be looking at the TV every time Zeus makes a perfect help-side defensive rotation that leads to a missed shot, rebound, and fast break? Because it happens all game long. And it happens whether he is guarding a smaller player or a big center. He is so vital defensively that you thinking he should be taken out just makes me wonder.

Zeus is going to be just fine offensively, and will average anywhere from 10-13 ppg this season. You can mark it down. And I don't want it to be more, we are too balanced for that.

[SCCat]

I'm curious: do you just happen to not be looking at the TV every time Zeus makes a perfect help-side defensive rotation that leads to a missed shot, rebound, and fast break? Because it happens all game long. And it happens whether he is guarding a smaller player or a big center. He is so vital defensively that you thinking he should be taken out just makes me wonder.

Nah I see it. He's a good defensive center.

Do you see it when he comes down to the offensive end and can never get position? And then the few times he does get position he loses it instantly.

That's there to see too, if one were so inclined to look.

[Airizona]

Tarc frequently had to guard a player who was much quicker than him and he has struggled in games like that.

So now it's "well the other guy is quicker so what can Tarc do?"

Come on man.

Ok so let's assume this is an issue. If Tarc is matched up with a smaller, quicker guy, shouldn't we look to play someone else smaller and quicker as the other team has negated Tarc's advantage (that he's a good defensive player) and take this "mismatch" out of the equation? Because Tarc isn't creating any mismatches on the offensive end, regardless of who's covering him.

I am not saying Tarc is a liability on the floor, I am with the crowd that believes we need Tarc in no matter who the opponent for his defensive and offensive prowess. But I also notice that if Tarc is forced to play against smaller opponents and gets pulled out to the perimeter or has to defend someone off the dribble, he is not playing to his strengths. I don't see much argument against that. And you don't think he creates mismatches on the offensive end? Pay more attention to entry passes and how the guards are getting the ball from the CSUN game and you will see that he does create mismatches, but there were a lot of bad passes thrown Tarcs way. Tarc still brings the ball down too low sometimes and fumbles passes now and then, but he has improved each year and should be a solid pro after this year.

[SCCat]

I am not saying Tarc is a liability on the floor

Well, ya kinda did say that...

But I also notice that if Tarc is forced to play against smaller opponents and gets pulled out to the perimeter or has to defend someone off the dribble, he is not playing to his strengths.

...and now you've kinda said it again. There are quicker, smaller guys that Tarc has difficulty defending, who know to bring him out away from the basket. In those situations, should we look at using one of our smaller, quicker guys to defend if they are creating this match up problem?

And you don't think he creates mismatches on the offensive end?

This one I can answer very clearly: no.

Pay more attention to entry passes and how the guards are getting the ball from the CSUN game and you will see that he does create mismatches, but there were a lot of bad passes thrown Tarcs way.

I would say tough to throw an entry pass when the guy in the post is only able to hold his position for a second. It's like fools gold; you think he's there, but by the time the pass is leaving your hand he's already losing his position and the defender is coming over the top for the steal.

[gumby]

I've come to the realization that he is this player. He won't be ripping it up offensively. The only thing that marks him as an early departure is the 5 star rating from three years ago. I put more stock in the 100 or so games since.

He's a four year player. In an earlier time, there would be no question about it. Horne was a 5 star. I ceased waiting for that long before he left. This is who Tarc is. It's something most teams would dearly love to have. I'm not going to bang on him for something he's not. He couldn't be in better shape, so no gain to be had there. He simply doesn't have the hands, hops and finishing skills to be featured. So being a pain in the ass deensively is what I want. And he is.

You are 100% right and I 100% agree with you. We need to drop the 5 star; now it's just "our good defensive center." But what I would say is Tarc still gets defended in that way. "You want to bring in ... over our five star center?" I would say there are some places where it might be appropriate to sacrifice a little bit of defense for a little more offense by having someone else in there other than our defensive center.

Our slow starts have been marked by turnovers. I don't believe he's the cause.

When you're playing four offensive players against five defensive players spacing can start to become an issue, which leads to turnovers.

Well, I don't go as far as calling him a non-threat. He is still defended. Plus, this still doesn't explain why the turnovers occur at the outset and disappear later. He plays a lot of minutes. It could be that we try to establish him early, then give up. I'll watch for this.

[gumby]

I don't ever remember Tarc looking good against small lineups. But it doesn't matter because we don't lose to small lineups.

Tarc is indispensable. His defense is superb. And except for last night, he scores in double digits by drawing fouls and being reliable at the stripe. He's a 4-year player, but that doesn't guarantee Arizona a 4th year from him. If he does stay, we're lucky because the math actually does work even with our recruiting hopes.

Agreed. How quickly people forget about the double double he posted on Friday night (that is 2 days people...come on). Tarc frequently had to guard a player who was much quicker than him and he has struggled in games like that. Not only that, but I swear the fouls that go against him when he is guarding someone smaller than him are so ticky tacky. It seems like he starts off the game as the power center that he is and then fouls/game flow against smaller opponents turn him into a player who is just trying not to foul.

Good points.

[gumby]

I'm not blind to Tarc's defensive impact, gumby. Between he, Ashley and Rondae, he does what he did last season with Gordon and make the lane virtually impenetrable.

So I'm not whispering a word about Tarc's starting job. It is safe, and probably always will be as long as he's here.

But as I have said on other threads, he WAS far more aggressive on offense a year ago. Quick catches and dunks (or at least attempts). Solid FT shooting. High reach and grip for rebounds. Even a couple of blocks here and there.

Then about late February, it seems, the refs got in his head for good. He got tired of getting PO'd at calls for hedges and his opponents' flops. He doesn't bull his way to the hoop even for boards like he used to. He never got to use his massiveness near the bucket to his advantage, so he backed off and really hasn't displayed many post moves since. Plus his FT percentage has suffered.

No, I'm not calling for Tarc's head. I saw the beast he was shaping into prior to the Ashley injury. Where did that go? He needs to bring it back, because it's only his future that will suffer if he doesn't.

OK. does seem like he gets an inordinate amount of negative attention from you.

[Airizona]

I am not saying Tarc is a liability on the floor

Well, ya kinda did say that...

But I also notice that if Tarc is forced to play against smaller opponents and gets pulled out to the perimeter or has to defend someone off the dribble, he is not playing to his strengths.

...and now you've kinda said it again. There are quicker, smaller guys that Tarc has difficulty defending, who know to bring him out away from the basket. In those situations, should we look at using one of our smaller, quicker guys to defend if they are creating this match up problem?

And you don't think he creates mismatches on the offensive end?

This one I can answer very clearly: no.

Pay more attention to entry passes and how the guards are getting the ball from the CSUN game and you will see that he does create mismatches, but there were a lot of bad passes thrown Tarcs way.

I would say tough to throw an entry pass when the guy in the post is only able to hold his position for a second. It's like fools gold; you think he's there, but by the time the pass is leaving your hand he's already losing his position and the defender is coming over the top for the steal.

Maybe you took it that way, but I never said that. If SJ is settling for 3's all game, he wouldn't be playing to his strengths, but he wouldn't necessarily be a liability either. The same can be said of Tarc vs. smaller opponents.

Well we could go back and forth on Tarc's offensive ability, but with all the upcoming games, this disagreement will settle itself.

[SCCat]

Maybe you took it that way, but I never said that. If SJ is settling for 3's all game, he wouldn't be playing to his strengths, but he wouldn't necessarily be a liability either. The same can be said of Tarc vs. smaller opponents.

Well we could go back and forth on Tarc's offensive ability, but with all the upcoming games, this disagreement will settle itself.

Fair enough.

[Pop McKale]

I've come to the realization that he is this player. He won't be ripping it up offensively. The only thing that marks him as an early departure is the 5 star rating from three years ago. I put more stock in the 100 or so games since.

He's a four year player. In an earlier time, there would be no question about it. Horne was a 5 star. I ceased waiting for that long before he left. This is who Tarc is. It's something most teams would dearly love to have. I'm not going to bang on him for something he's not. He couldn't be in better shape, so no gain to be had there. He simply doesn't have the hands, hops and finishing skills to be featured. So being a pain in the ass deensively is what I want. And he is.

You are 100% right and I 100% agree with you. We need to drop the 5 star; now it's just "our good defensive center." But what I would say is Tarc still gets defended in that way. "You want to bring in ... over our five star center?" I would say there are some places where it might be appropriate to sacrifice a little bit of defense for a little more offense by having someone else in there other than our defensive center.

Our slow starts have been marked by turnovers. I don't believe he's the cause.

When you're playing four offensive players against five defensive players spacing can start to become an issue, which leads to turnovers.

Well, I don't go as far as calling him a non-threat. He is still defended. Plus, this still doesn't explain why the turnovers occur at the outset and disappear later. He plays a lot of minutes. It could be that we try to establish him early, then give up. I'll watch for this.

You're on to it here. We haven't had a consistently good post entry passer since Kyle Fogg. It's like the 15-foot pull-up jumper....a lost art. Zeus gets down the floor ahead of his man more often than not and gets good position, but no one gets him the ball on time. York has been brutal so far feeding the post. Even TJ has forced it in too late or bounced it off someone's shin a few times. It seems after 2-3 failed attempts, everyone just decides that's that. Reminds me of Bill Cartwright with the Bulls in the early '90s...target him to get him an early bucket or two, then hope you've kept him relevant enough to get you some boards and blocked shots the rest of the way. Kaleb has more to offer, I'd like to see him demand the ball more. Guards need to find him on time when he's ready to accept the pass. But also agree with your "hands, hops, finishing skills" comment, so I'm not expecting he should be a 20/10 guy every night. He's what can keep us from falling into that maddening "chuck it around the perimeter, then heave" offense we've seen at times.

Also agree with Airizona's points on Kaleb and the fouls. Last night wasn't a good one for that baseline ref. Miller wanted a piece of him in the second half and got two verbal warnings after a horrid call on RHJ.

[Olsondogg]

The head of officials was in McKale...so I guess it make sense. I just figured the PAC refs were in mid season form.

[gumby]

It was eerily reminiscent. Let them play in the first half. Whistle-happy to start the second half and bring the game to a grinding halt.

Don't know how players are expected to adapt. You don't have to be great. Just be consistent.