Bear Down Wildcats

AZCatGirl wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2024 11:13 am No matter what, we'll be the last Pac 12 team to win a national championship.

And the last PAC-12 team to play a game in the NCAA tournament.

UAEebs86 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2024 11:15 am

AZCatGirl wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2024 11:13 am No matter what, we'll be the last Pac 12 team to win a national championship.

And the last PAC-12 team to play a game in the NCAA tournament.

Carrying the Pac 12 banner once again, for the final time.

Glad next year we'll have other good teams in our conference making runs.

Didn’t ucla win one

cerec_cat wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2024 2:39 pm Didn’t ucla win one

Not since ‘95.

AZCatGirl wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2024 11:13 am No matter what, we'll be the last Pac 12 team to win a national championship.

There is still the PAC-2! WSU had a good run this season.

Sadly for the PAC, the last natty wasn't even in this century and was only the PAC-10 then. Maybe it was time for the PAC to end.

Do we want Baylor or Clemson?

ASUHATER! wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2024 3:00 pm Do we want Baylor or Clemson?

Well let’s see how they play, but I think people on the board are worried a bit about Baylor’s length.

ASUHATER! wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2024 3:00 pm Do we want Baylor or Clemson?

Clemson by a mile

I hate rooting for one team over another to play. I always think it’s testing fate.

Chip & Joanna.

If we play Clemson their travel will surely be an issue. While we have been home for 24 hours they still have to fly home. Then they go right into preparations because they will fly out Tuesday to LA across the country. Daunting schedule for those guys and I love our chances

Baylor is not a good defensive team, so there’s that.

Wilber is way better looking than both their mascots.

Clemson looks better to me, not just because they’re ahead but because they make fewer mistakes and don’t rely on one guy for offense.

But…Clemson is not as fast/athletic as Baylor, so I’d love our chances of speeding Clemson up, turning them over and running them off the court. Could be Boswell’s resurgence game.

AZCatGirl wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2024 3:49 pm Wilber is way better looking than both their mascots.

Clemson Tiger looks second rate hah Wilbur and Wilma ftw

Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2024 3:55 pm Clemson looks better to me, not just because they’re ahead but because they make fewer mistakes and don’t rely on one guy for offense.

But…Clemson is not as fast/athletic as Baylor, so I’d love our chances of speeding Clemson up, turning them over and running them off the court. Could be Boswell’s resurgence game.

Looks similar to me; think Ballo would feast vs Clemson and we could have a good chance to run them off court with our athletes

Baylor just seems off shooting tonight, not what I’ve seen in the few games of theirs this season

What time is game time?

Line is AZ -7.5 with 150.5 the O/U

So shooting for the first team in the Elite Eight. I like it.

Hall and “Chef” on Clemson are a handful. Ballo, Krivas and Keshad have to avoid picking up early fouls.

They’re a very solid team, as good as any we’ve seen the last few weeks.

Won't link the article because they're a dime-a-dozen, but even when predicting our 81-74 defeat of Clemson it said: "It’s Arizona, so there will be a prolonged lull when the machine slows to a dead stop ..."

Well, gotta admit, one of us could have written that part of it.

Hall will be a matchup problem but so was the Dayton all american center/forward Holmes. No unnecessary fouls and they run a very discipline offense with tons of cuts and picks. They get scoring out of one of their guards but we have the guys that can defend them. If we are hitting a reasonable amount of 3's (35%) we should win. If not it will be a 5-6 beer game.

TheCat wrote: ↑Mon Mar 25, 2024 10:13 am Hall will be a matchup problem but so was the Dayton all american center/forward Holmes. No unnecessary fouls and they run a very discipline offense with tons of cuts and picks. They get scoring out of one of their guards but we have the guys that can defend them. If we are hitting a reasonable amount of 3's (35%) we should win. If not it will be a 5-6 beer game.

I think we could get Hall in foul trouble with Ballo / driving to basket - I think he's much less of a matchup problem compared to Holmes.
They defended the 3 pretty well the few games in tournament so far, but our offense isn't predicated on only hitting 3's so I think we should be OK as long as we aren't chucking 3's up only.

At the end of the day we've got too many scoring threats at all 3 levels for them to contain, and our defense should hopefully be able to lock down and turn them over.

I think they should be more concerned about foul problems

MrKyle wrote: ↑Mon Mar 25, 2024 10:28 am

TheCat wrote: ↑Mon Mar 25, 2024 10:13 am Hall will be a matchup problem but so was the Dayton all american center/forward Holmes. No unnecessary fouls and they run a very discipline offense with tons of cuts and picks. They get scoring out of one of their guards but we have the guys that can defend them. If we are hitting a reasonable amount of 3's (35%) we should win. If not it will be a 5-6 beer game.

I think we could get Hall in foul trouble with Ballo / driving to basket - I think he's much less of a matchup problem compared to Holmes.
They defended the 3 pretty well the few games in tournament so far, but our offense isn't predicated on only hitting 3's so I think we should be OK as long as we aren't chucking 3's up only.

At the end of the day we've got too many scoring threats at all 3 levels for them to contain, and our defense should hopefully be able to lock down and turn them over.

Hmmm...am I worried about Clemson's bigs?

{{Zach Edey (2 time NPOY), Kyle Filipowski (Five star first rounder), N'Faly Dante(All Conference NBA talent), Adem Bona (DPOY) and Brendan Carlson (All Conference) enter the chat}}

arizonawildcats wrote: ↑Mon Mar 25, 2024 11:31 am

Couple things are helpful to know when looking at anything that using overall pace or tempo:

1. There is no correlation between offensive efficiency and offensive possession length. There are good and bad fast, and slow, offenses.

2. Defensive efficiency correlates directly with defensive possession length. Good defenses are “slow”.

RawleArenas wrote: ↑Mon Mar 25, 2024 10:52 am

MrKyle wrote: ↑Mon Mar 25, 2024 10:28 am

TheCat wrote: ↑Mon Mar 25, 2024 10:13 am Hall will be a matchup problem but so was the Dayton all american center/forward Holmes. No unnecessary fouls and they run a very discipline offense with tons of cuts and picks. They get scoring out of one of their guards but we have the guys that can defend them. If we are hitting a reasonable amount of 3's (35%) we should win. If not it will be a 5-6 beer game.

I think we could get Hall in foul trouble with Ballo / driving to basket - I think he's much less of a matchup problem compared to Holmes.
They defended the 3 pretty well the few games in tournament so far, but our offense isn't predicated on only hitting 3's so I think we should be OK as long as we aren't chucking 3's up only.

At the end of the day we've got too many scoring threats at all 3 levels for them to contain, and our defense should hopefully be able to lock down and turn them over.

Hmmm...am I worried about Clemson's bigs?

{{Zach Edey (2 time NPOY), Kyle Filipowski (Five star first rounder), N'Faly Dante(All Conference NBA talent), Adem Bona (DPOY) and Brendan Carlson (All Conference) enter the chat}}

Exactly! Think we've seen a few good bigs this year

Winger wrote: ↑Mon Mar 25, 2024 12:20 pm

arizonawildcats wrote: ↑Mon Mar 25, 2024 11:31 am

Couple things are helpful to know when looking at anything that using overall pace or tempo:

1. There is no correlation between offensive efficiency and offensive possession length. There are good and bad fast, and slow, offenses.

2. Defensive efficiency correlates directly with defensive possession length. Good defenses are “slow”.

Great call out.

I like these graphics but I think the author struggles with correlation vs causation

Az kenpom ranking 6th
Adjusted defense 12th
Adjusted offense 8th
Adjusted tempo 16th

Clemson Kenpom 31st
Adj defense 67th
Adj offense 27th
Adjusted tempo 260th

Not sure why NM and Baylor shot only 9-47 from the three in their losses to Clemson but if we shoot anywhere near our average, we should win comfortably

azcat49 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 25, 2024 2:29 pm Az kenpom ranking 6th
Adjusted defense 12th
Adjusted offense 8th
Adjusted tempo 16th

Clemson Kenpom 31st
Adj defense 67th
Adj offense 27th
Adjusted tempo 260th

Not sure why NM and Baylor shot only 9-47 from the three in their losses to Clemson but if we shoot anywhere near our average, we should win comfortably

Gotta get a body on Chef and Hall. They're big, they're smart and they came to play. They won't be intimidated.

Also, can't leave Girard. Excellent playmaker and 3 point shooter.

For all y’all in Cali for the game…

The teams with tons of size all along the roster are the ones that have given us trouble this year. Not just teams with one good big.

That said, I am confident in the team focusing more in the NCAA and the staff putting together a way to minimize that and exploit the advantages that we have over Clemson

CalStateTempe wrote: ↑Mon Mar 25, 2024 2:00 pm
Great call out.

I like these graphics but I think the author struggles with correlation vs causation

I like them too but I struggle with why folks still use overall tempo or pace as any kind of marker for playing well/efficient.

If you have a good defense your tempo is going to be slower.

If you have a poor defense your tempo is going to be faster.

Having a good offense is independent of tempo.

Having a poor offense is independent of tempo.

Not sure I’d be using NET either but whatever.

Once you understand the correlation, or not, of average possession length with defense, or not for offense the game starts to make more sense imo.

I think there is something to his graphics above but they are highly skewed by what is above.

If you want to see examples that will connect with your mind just bring up Sean Miller’s career KenPom page and look at the quality of his offenses and offensive APL and quality of his defenses (and 2FG% defense) and defensive APL and the clouds will part.

You can do the same to see examples of how you “cant defend 3FG shooting”.

azcat49 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 25, 2024 2:29 pm Not sure why NM and Baylor shot only 9-47 from the three in their losses to Clemson

"There's basketball then there's tournament basketball."

~Harry Vardon (probably)

Winger wrote: ↑Mon Mar 25, 2024 12:20 pm

arizonawildcats wrote: ↑Mon Mar 25, 2024 11:31 am

Couple things are helpful to know when looking at anything that using overall pace or tempo:

1. There is no correlation between offensive efficiency and offensive possession length. There are good and bad fast, and slow, offenses.

2. Defensive efficiency correlates directly with defensive possession length. Good defenses are “slow”.

I'd like to see a stat of points per trip down court.

azgreg wrote: ↑Mon Mar 25, 2024 3:44 pm

azcat49 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 25, 2024 2:29 pm Not sure why NM and Baylor shot only 9-47 from the three in their losses to Clemson

"There's basketball then there's tournament basketball."

~Harry Vardon (probably)

I watched the Baylor game. A bunch of those shots were wide open. Not sure why they missed but many were great shots.

Winger wrote: ↑Mon Mar 25, 2024 3:31 pm

CalStateTempe wrote: ↑Mon Mar 25, 2024 2:00 pm
Great call out.

I like these graphics but I think the author struggles with correlation vs causation

I like them too but I struggle with why folks still use overall tempo or pace as any kind of marker for playing well/efficient.

If you have a good defense your tempo is going to be slower.

If you have a poor defense your tempo is going to be faster.

Having a good offense is independent of tempo.

Having a poor offense is independent of tempo.

Not sure I’d be using NET either but whatever.

Once you understand the correlation, or not, of average possession length with defense, or not for offense the game starts to make more sense imo.

I think there is something to his graphics above but they are highly skewed by what is above.

If you want to see examples that will connect with your mind just bring up Sean Miller’s career KenPom page and look at the quality of his offenses and offensive APL and quality of his defenses (and 2FG% defense) and defensive APL and the clouds will part.

You can do the same to see examples of how you “cant defend 3FG shooting”.

The graphic has nothing to do with efficiency. I think people focus on tempo because half-court offense and defense is so important in the tourney. You have to go back to the 2009 Tar Heels for a champion with KenPom top 10 tempo.

As much as he whines, Mick is still fun to listen to. He has something worth hearing about Arizona at the end .....

or try this:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5D742z7pCSE

On the eve of another S16 for our Proud Tradition, I'll just say that I've had as much fun watching this team play as any over the past 10-15 years. They're a tight-knit group, and that kind of chemistry starts with our coach. In three years, Tommy has already brought us right back to the level we expect to be at from year to year, and he has the program positioned to be a national contender for many years. This is what we all want, and I for one am ecstatic that Tommy has worked out so well.

I know we all want two more wins this week, and it could happen. If it does, we'll be grown ass men and women acting like we're 19 again. It will be glorious. And the scene in Phoenix for UofA playing in the Final Four will be the greatest AZ hoops party the world has ever seen.

If we lose this week, it'll be tough, as always. But we should be proud of this team and these coaches. They've already given us so much joy this season, and man has it been sweet winning the last ever Pac reg season title and winning non-conference games against Duke, Bama, Michigan State and Wisconsin. What a season.

Here's hoping a good season gets much better this week.

BTFD!!!

After the sweet 16 it is just a crap shoot but at least staying close to seed this year. I too have enjoyed the team and their development this year. Hope they play well tomorrow but still appreciative of the season if they don't. BTFD!!!!!!!!

This is pretty funny…

Bear the fuck down

Lloyd and the players have the opportunity to become legendary

Bear the fuck down and kick the shit out of Clemson

Evan Miyakawa around 18:45. Good discussion about our depth compared to other teams and the past two seasons.

arizonawildcats wrote: ↑Mon Mar 25, 2024 4:31 pm

Winger wrote: ↑Mon Mar 25, 2024 3:31 pm

CalStateTempe wrote: ↑Mon Mar 25, 2024 2:00 pm
Great call out.

I like these graphics but I think the author struggles with correlation vs causation

I like them too but I struggle with why folks still use overall tempo or pace as any kind of marker for playing well/efficient.

If you have a good defense your tempo is going to be slower.

If you have a poor defense your tempo is going to be faster.

Having a good offense is independent of tempo.

Having a poor offense is independent of tempo.

Not sure I’d be using NET either but whatever.

Once you understand the correlation, or not, of average possession length with defense, or not for offense the game starts to make more sense imo.

I think there is something to his graphics above but they are highly skewed by what is above.

If you want to see examples that will connect with your mind just bring up Sean Miller’s career KenPom page and look at the quality of his offenses and offensive APL and quality of his defenses (and 2FG% defense) and defensive APL and the clouds will part.

You can do the same to see examples of how you “cant defend 3FG shooting”.

The graphic has nothing to do with efficiency. I think people focus on tempo because half-court offense and defense is so important in the tourney. You have to go back to the 2009 Tar Heels for a champion with KenPom top 10 tempo.

The UNC thing is true (I assume it is) because: teams that win the Natty have good = slow defenses, which slows their overall “tempo”.

Focusing on overall tempo is erroneous.

If you broke out an offensive metric and wanted to look at average possession length while on offense you might be on to something. You could try to make the case for “to succeed in the NCAA tournament you have to play both well and slow while on offense”.

There is no need to do that for defense because almost all very good defenses are also “very slow”. Again, defensive efficiency is directly related to possession length. In that regard defensive “tempo” doesn’t mean anything. Because: you essentially can’t be a good defense without being “slow”.

The same does not hold for offense. If you look at that chart and find the teams with the highest overall tempos what you’ll have is a cohort of (relatively) poor defenses and fast offenses. If you look at the cohort of teams with the slowest tempo you’ll have a cohort of very good defenses and slower offenses.

Combine the 2 sides of the floor into one pace or tempo and you lose the forest through the trees.

Also, when it comes to high level NCAA tournament success — making Final Fours and winning Natties — good offense is slightly more important than good defense. Good defenses lose to good offenses at that level more often than the opposite. Not sure how the changes in the charge rule will affect this.

I love how we just trot Steve Kerr out for these big moments.

LFG!