This one hurts

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azcat49
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Re: This one hurts

Post by azcat49 »

One thing we know for sure, the read option is only effective IF the QB is a willing runner. Anu is not.

The kicking game was surprisingly strong I thought. Pollack kicked and punted well and I thought the tackling was much improved. Snapping wasn't an issue which was nice but Tagaloa had issues pass blocking all night.

Not sure where BYU would slot in the conference buy no doubt teams with better athletes are coming soon
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Re: This one hurts

Post by Newportcat »

Typical f@cking Arizona football. How anyone can ever be positive about our program is so beyond me. Last nights game was just the latest in a long line of games where we show what poor to average recruiting leads to along with a lack of development along offensive and defensive lines.
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KaibabKat
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Re: This one hurts

Post by KaibabKat »

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whatisee
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Re: This one hurts

Post by whatisee »

One thing i did learn last night. Anthony Mariscal was :oops: flying around the field when he got in. That kid needs to see more playing time
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Re: This one hurts

Post by OSUCat »

azcat49 wrote:The kicking game was surprisingly strong I thought. Pollack kicked and punted well
Ya, the kicking and punting looked good from Pollack.

TJ will return one this season. I'm glade that the second returner was removed for a blocker.
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Re: This one hurts

Post by CatsbyAZ »

azcat49 wrote:I am not sure what I feel as I am not sure what I just saw. Is our offense that bad or did Sitake coach his ass off?

Is our defense dependable or was that 6 months of preperation and newness of the BYU offense?
To answer your questions in order, it's more of our offense not showing up for three quarters. The playcalling was so uneven, with some drives starting with three straight bad passes and others with three straight runs. Plus, Anu was bad and the WRs appear a step slower.

I'm siding with our defense being new and improved. Taysom is a proven passer and electric athlete and we were able to do a lot more against him than just about anyone was last year before his injuries. The cats were also dealing with a tough running game and were able to stiffle him enough to stay in the game. Plus, as tired as the defense looked, they didn't fall apart, loss their effectiveness, or just plain give up like SC's did yesterday.
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Re: This one hurts

Post by Sid »

Newportcat wrote:Typical f@cking Arizona football. How anyone can ever be positive about our program is so beyond me. Last nights game was just the latest in a long line of games where we show what poor to average recruiting leads to along with a lack of development along offensive and defensive lines.
We held a good team to only 9 fucking points to start the 4th quarter and that's not positive? We also played like shit on offense most of the night and we still should have won this game. I will also take that as a positive.

One last thing, at least our defense didn't quit like sc. That's negative by the way.....

:D
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Re: This one hurts

Post by ASUHATER! »

BYU isn't a good team....

It's not like they're going to be a top 10 team that challenges for a playoff spot. They are a 7-8 win team.
i was going to put the ua/asu records here...but i forgot what they were.

i'll just go with fuck asu.
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Re: This one hurts

Post by Sid »

I would add the word "very" in your example of good.
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Re: This one hurts

Post by Irish27 »

I'm sure the next two games we will see Dawkins and if he does well throwing and passing, I can see him playing against Washington. Anu has had his chances but because he is not a threat to run, I think RR will give Dawkins a shot.
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Re: This one hurts

Post by Gladiator Cat »

We really needed to steal this one against BYU. We have no room for error this season. BYU is not great by any means, just pretty good mature team with a big strong RB. BYU is probably a 5 loss team this year and RR is in year 5 and going against a brand new staff in transition, couldn't get it done.

Basically Anu, the entire offense including the play calling and OL adjustments were a discombobulates hot-mess for the first half. The Arizona fans deserved better. Love Marcel Yates and the new defensive staff overhaul. Since Anu will not execute the read/option as designed and RR will not substitute the QB, this offense is dead money entering PAC 12 games.

Not even upset anymore. Its just what I've come to expect.

Expect about 35,000 tops for Grambling. Greg Bryne now has a attendance problem and Rich Rod has the same old stubbornness problem.

Expect the Cats to take the next two games pretty easily from low quality opponents, but after that, don't kid you're self.
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Re: This one hurts

Post by scumdevils86 »

Yup every game will be a battle after week 3. No easy outs whatsoever
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Re: This one hurts

Post by CalStateTempe »

Gladiator Cat wrote:We really needed to steal this one against BYU. We have no room for error this season. BYU is not great by any means, just pretty good mature team with a big strong RB. BYU is probably a 5 loss team this year and RR is in year 5 and going against a brand new staff in transition, couldn't get it done.

Basically Anu, the entire offense including the play calling and OL adjustments were a discombobulates hot-mess for the first half. The Arizona fans deserved better. Love Marcel Yates and the new defensive staff overhaul. Since Anu will not execute the read/option as designed and RR will not substitute the QB, this offense is dead money entering PAC 12 games.

Not even upset anymore. Its just what I've come to expect.

Expect about 35,000 tops for Grambling. Greg Bryne now has a attendance problem and Rich Rod has the same old stubbornness problem.

Expect the Cats to take the next two games pretty easily from low quality opponents, but after that, don't kid you're self.
Yup. A good friend of mine (Northwestern alum) told me about the RR stubbornness problem back in 2012. I laughed it off, but over the past 2 seasons see what he meant.

We're in trouble this season.
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Re: This one hurts

Post by Main Event »

#FreeDawkins
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Re: This one hurts

Post by azpenguin »

You guys are already in midseason form.
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Re: This one hurts

Post by jimson »

Like we were expecting to challenge for a championship this year?

What's the average age of the BYU player? 25 or something? They have a couple more years of maturity, discipline and weight training.

Their lines made ours look like pygmies.

Hell, they probably would have gained about 1500 yards rushing on last years defense.

This year is not Desert Swarm, but they showed some promise.

Offense was the main shortcoming last night

No wonder the D was out of gas on that last drive.

I have more faith in this staff sorting out the offense than I ever did the previous staff fixing our Desert Dumpster Fire defense.
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Re: This one hurts

Post by Puerco »

Just to inject a note of reality: this game was a Vegas toss-up. It ended up being... A toss-up. The world isn't spinning any faster or slower after that game, so chill, hope the offense improves and the defense really is better than anyone expected, and settle in for a mediocre season.

Hell, it's pretty much what we do every year around here.
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Re: This one hurts

Post by Fishclamps »

I love these threads. One game in and it's, when does basketball season start again?

Glad you guys and your whacky thoughts are always here to cheer me up after a loss!
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Re: This one hurts

Post by Chicat »

Fishclamps wrote:I love these threads. One game in and it's, when does basketball season start again?
Who said that?

*Spoiler Alert* (no one)
Fishclamps wrote:Glad you guys and your whacky thoughts are always here to cheer me up after a loss!
Is that what you're looking for? Unbridled optimism to cheer you up after a loss? Maybe we can create a "Rainbows & Sunshine" subforum just for you where we can pretend our offense didn't just lay an egg against a mediocre team.
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Re: This one hurts

Post by Fishclamps »

Chicat wrote:
Fishclamps wrote:I love these threads. One game in and it's, when does basketball season start again?
Who said that?

*Spoiler Alert* (no one)
Fishclamps wrote:Glad you guys and your whacky thoughts are always here to cheer me up after a loss!
Is that what you're looking for? Unbridled optimism to cheer you up after a loss? Maybe we can create a "Rainbows & Sunshine" subforum just for you where we can pretend our offense didn't just lay an egg against a mediocre team.
My point is that let's let the season play out a little bit more before some of the posters on here start thinking this season is gonna be an unmitigated disaster.

Don't need to take everything I say so seriously.
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Re: This one hurts

Post by Chicat »

Fishclamps wrote:My point is that let's let the season play out a little bit more before some of the posters on here start thinking this season is gonna be an unmitigated disaster.
Ok, but the season is so short that by the time we get to game 5, "we need to improve upon X otherwise this season will be an unmitigated disaster" becomes "this season is an unmitigated disaster". Much more interesting to talk about the things you see now and what you predict for the future if they don't change.
Fishclamps wrote:Don't need to take everything I say so seriously.
Not a problem.
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Re: This one hurts

Post by Fishclamps »

Chicat wrote:
Fishclamps wrote:My point is that let's let the season play out a little bit more before some of the posters on here start thinking this season is gonna be an unmitigated disaster.
Ok, but the season is so short that by the time we get to game 5, "we need to improve upon X otherwise this season will be an unmitigated disaster" becomes "this season is an unmitigated disaster". Much more interesting to talk about the things you see now and what you predict for the future if they don't change.
Fishclamps wrote:Don't need to take everything I say so seriously.
Not a problem.
Well in that case our D looks like it could be alright this year, but we won't really know till conference play, and our Oh laid a giant turd on the field Saturday. Anu needs to get over his fear and start running the ball. We can't pin it all on Wilson again or he's gonna be injured for half the season.

I also wish our corners would stop playing 10 yards off the receiver every time.
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Re: This one hurts

Post by Merkin »

Anu is a 3rd year starter and this is his 4th year in the program.

He isn't going to get any better.
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Re: This one hurts

Post by Chicat »

Fishclamps wrote:
Chicat wrote:
Fishclamps wrote:My point is that let's let the season play out a little bit more before some of the posters on here start thinking this season is gonna be an unmitigated disaster.
Ok, but the season is so short that by the time we get to game 5, "we need to improve upon X otherwise this season will be an unmitigated disaster" becomes "this season is an unmitigated disaster". Much more interesting to talk about the things you see now and what you predict for the future if they don't change.
Fishclamps wrote:Don't need to take everything I say so seriously.
Not a problem.
Well in that case our D looks like it could be alright this year, but we won't really know till conference play, and our Oh laid a giant turd on the field Saturday. Anu needs to get over his fear and start running the ball. We can't pin it all on Wilson again or he's gonna be injured for half the season.

I also wish our corners would stop playing 10 yards off the receiver every time.
And just like that, he became one of us...
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Re: This one hurts

Post by Fishclamps »

Chicat wrote:
Fishclamps wrote:
Chicat wrote:
Fishclamps wrote:My point is that let's let the season play out a little bit more before some of the posters on here start thinking this season is gonna be an unmitigated disaster.
Ok, but the season is so short that by the time we get to game 5, "we need to improve upon X otherwise this season will be an unmitigated disaster" becomes "this season is an unmitigated disaster". Much more interesting to talk about the things you see now and what you predict for the future if they don't change.
Fishclamps wrote:Don't need to take everything I say so seriously.
Not a problem.
Well in that case our D looks like it could be alright this year, but we won't really know till conference play, and our Oh laid a giant turd on the field Saturday. Anu needs to get over his fear and start running the ball. We can't pin it all on Wilson again or he's gonna be injured for half the season.

I also wish our corners would stop playing 10 yards off the receiver every time.
And just like that, he became one of us...
Well shit...
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Re: This one hurts

Post by Spaceman Spiff »

That game was as close to a microcosm of Arizona football as you'll get. Generally, a pretty disappointing affair, and when it finally looks up, the hope gets dashed by snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

Defensively, I actually thought we looked decent. The personnel issues weren't going to disappear overnight, but we were effective most of the night until we went prevent. The ease BYU moved on that last possession was maddening.

Offensively, I wouldn't lay it all at Anu's feet. We lost at the LOS until BYU got tired and we broke some late. Until you can get time to stretch the field, they can stack the line. We played too horozontally all night, and the O line got outplayed.
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Re: This one hurts

Post by BBQ wildcat »

Chicat wrote:
OSUCat wrote:No one here hates Anu. Hell, it wouldn't surprise me if Anu flourished in a BYU type of offense.

Scott, Denker, and first year Anu is evidence of what this offense can do with a QB that is willing to ruck and run. I'm not saying it would work every time, but the defense would atleast have to account for the possibility. I mean the zone read is based off the edge rushers actions. If the edge rusher breaks for RB the QB keeps it, if the edge rusher stays then the RB gets it. If the QB isn't going to try and run, why wouldn't the edge rusher go straight for the RB?

I don't think RR really thought that a QB competition was happening, but a way to push Anu to improve only. So, I guess I do think RR lied to Dawkins.
This. All of this.

A QB who is at least willing to run keeps defenses honest. The fact that Anu isn't willing to run in a run-first zone read offense makes it very easy to scheme against us. BYU proved that.
Absolutely! This type of offense really REQUIRES a dual threat QB. Solomon has not been a run threat at least since last year's injury, but really even before that. That fact makes it much easier for opposing teams defenses. It is also painfully obvious that Solomon does not make good in-game decisions, taking sacks at the worst possible times, when he SHOULD know that the defense is going to bring a lot of pressure. And the interceptions were the result, not just of bad throws, but also bad decisions. He is a 4th year Junior. If he can't make good decisions by now, he really shouldn't be in the game (JMO). VERY disappointed that Dawkins didn't get a sniff, because he would have had a much better chance of making things happen and break / slow down some of the defensive pressure. Also disappointed that it seems like Wilson is the only choice at RB, at least until he gets hurt.
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Re: This one hurts

Post by dirtbags »

yeah. i think texas also reminded us that playing two qbs doesn't have to be an all-or-nothing decision, too.
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Re: This one hurts

Post by azgreg »

Merkin wrote:Anu is a 3rd year starter and this is his 4th year in the program.

He isn't going to get any better.
I had high hopes after his freshman year, but after that hit and concussion, I don't know.
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Re: This one hurts

Post by gumby »

Agree that concussion is a factor. He's a lot less interested in running. RichRod said today he meant to play Dawkins -- if nothing more than to give him reps -- and the other running backs, too,

Found that Dawkins comment odd. Don't usually give reps for reps sake in pick-em games. In any event, I think we'll see Dawkins in the cupcake games. Those will be cupcakes, right?

Soft corner coverage was understandable early on, but on the final drive? Grr.
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Re: This one hurts

Post by Fishclamps »

gumby wrote:Agree that concussion is a factor. He's a lot less interested in running. RichRod said today he meant to play Dawkins -- if nothing more than to give him reps -- and the other running backs, too,

Found that Dawkins comment odd. Don't usually give reps for reps sake in pick-em games. In any event, I think we'll see Dawkins in the cupcake games. Those will be cupcakes, right?

Soft corner coverage was understandable early on, but on the final drive? Grr.
Well for a defense that's supposed to be aggressive, playing 10 yards off the receivers all game didn't seem to fit that.
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Re: This one hurts

Post by Chicat »

Fishclamps wrote:
gumby wrote:Agree that concussion is a factor. He's a lot less interested in running. RichRod said today he meant to play Dawkins -- if nothing more than to give him reps -- and the other running backs, too,

Found that Dawkins comment odd. Don't usually give reps for reps sake in pick-em games. In any event, I think we'll see Dawkins in the cupcake games. Those will be cupcakes, right?

Soft corner coverage was understandable early on, but on the final drive? Grr.
Well for a defense that's supposed to be aggressive, playing 10 yards off the receivers all game didn't seem to fit that.
The aggressiveness comes from the LBs. The DBs have to make sure no one gets behind them because there won't be safety help over the top, so that's why there will be a cushion. But when you know they're just going to try and pick up 7 yards at a chunk to get into field goal range, pressing up on receivers to interrupt their timing would seem to be the better option.
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Re: This one hurts

Post by CalStateTempe »

Prevent only prevents winning.
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Re: This one hurts

Post by azpenguin »

I'll have to come back in a couple of months and re-read this thread to compare the reactions to this game vs. what actually happened this season.

A few thoughts: What I read into RRs comments about Solomon/Dawkins was that he did want to play both, but that there just weren't enough snaps and he doesn't want his QBs to think that a couple of bad plays will be all it takes to get pulled from the game. (He's stated that before, that he doesn't want his QB to be looking over his shoulder all the time.) Arizona only had 56 offensive snaps in the game and only 31 by halftime. They only had 5 possessions in the first half. They had two possessions in the third quarter, one of them being a 9 play 69 yard drive that led to the FG. By the time they got to the 4th, it's a one possession game and Solomon's the guy. He's been in these situations before. I think if the offense had gotten a little more of a rhythm early and had gotten more snaps, or if they hadn't started moving the ball some in the second quarter, Dawkins would have seen some time. I could be wrong but that's what I read into it.

Field position was tough a lot of the night for AZ. Ironically a lot of that was because the defense was able to stop drives, and they were stopping them at a spot where BYU's punter was able to pin it deep.

The defense did allow one 3rd and long to convert but they ended up forcing a punt on that drive. BYU converted 7-15 third downs, most of them short yardage, one of them 3rd and 7, the long one a 3rd and 13. My one concern about the defense was that they didn't turn BYU over (one turnover probably wins that game.) BYU had enough weapons to keep from having to take too many deep shots down field; when they did, AZ covered it. If Mangum were at QB then he probably would have thrown deep a lot but also been picked a couple of times (Mangum has an insane arm.) Hill is just a straight up solid QB who doesn't make a lot of mistakes at all.

If you're looking for a silver lining on this one (which most of you aren't) it's that Arizona started the season like this and had to learn some lessons the hard way. The young guys on the line got experience and they made some good adjustments as the game went on. The offense faced a tough pass rush scheme and they were able to figure out how to deal with that after a while. Had this been another three straight cupcakes, Arizona would have been learning these lessons against UW in three weeks. (2013 and 2015 non-conference schedules left Arizona as sitting ducks for their conference openers. 2014 they were lucky to draw Cal instead of one of the bigger teams.) They've got two games to work on what they've looked at on tape. We'll see on September 24 if they've put things together.
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Re: This one hurts

Post by azcat49 »

I think we will have a good crowd for Saturday. A lot of us are looking forward to the Grambling band
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Re: This one hurts

Post by TyrantCat »

Let's start with the positive: The Cats were in this game. Took a last minute field goal for the Cougs to snatch victory. Much revelry--and debauchery--in Salt Lake this weekend.

I think the D deserves credit for this one. The new staff, new scheme was effective enough. By the eye test, they looked better than expected. More aggressive. More variation. More fun to watch.

The negative: RichRod's offense was a problem. It's supposed to be the team's strength, but on this September night, the O was unproductive. The first half showcased a number of issues. Anu seems like a good kid, and he's been reliable. However, watching him move around in the pocket, buying himself some extra time and "creating" instead of reading the D and throwing, is mind-numbing. Not because it shows a lack of protection, but because it exposes issues with finding open routes, finding open outlet receivers, finding some easy yards on first and second down.

Where is the decisiveness? Where are the quick throws? What has happened to the pace of the passing game? How about some of that vaunted quick snap pace that wears the opposing D down?

Oh, and the O was boooring to watch. Sure, it got fun when the scoring started happening in the 4th. But c'mon, generate some O already, RichRod!

Another thing: In this scheme, the issues created by a QB that is not a run threat will be covered ad nauseam. Until we get to see what Dawkins could do at the wheel. But I digress. Any issues with the O are not a QB problem or an O-line problem. These are RichRod problems. It's his O. He calls the plays.

I expect the team to grow and improved. But it's year 5. Tick tick tick.
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Re: This one hurts

Post by Merkin »

TyrantCat wrote: Where are the quick throws? What has happened to the pace of the passing game? How about some of that vaunted quick snap pace that wears the opposing D down?

Saw a blurb where the Cats had the 3rd lowest number of plays in the RR era.
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Re: This one hurts

Post by Chicat »

When we had the ball, it didn't look like we had the urgency we've had in past years. Not sure if it was first game jitters and wanting to make sure everyone is exactly where they are supposed to be, but getting to the line, getting set, and hiking the ball almost seemed to be in slow motion in comparison to the Oregon State game last year when we were facing a similar defense.
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Re: This one hurts

Post by azgreg »

On a positive note I believe Nick Wilson lead the league in rushing.
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Re: This one hurts

Post by wyo-cat »

I never enjoy a Cats loss, but after the initial emotional letdown I'm OK with this. The D held a good offensive squad to 18 points. That's almost a shutout compared to last years debacle on D. We didn't give up any automatic 3 & 20's which made me pull my hair out in the past.

The O was the problem this game, and I'm hopeful that it will all get worked out in the next couple of weeks.

We didn't get embarrassed (see USC) and played with a good team, who will probably end up in the 7-9 win range. We stepped out of our comfort zone, cupcakes first game, and it was apparent for most of the game. We will be battle tested and back in the groove when the Mutts come to town after running the gauntlet of Rutgers, Idaho and Portland State.

We got this!
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Re: This one hurts

Post by Lofty »

Sid wrote:
Newportcat wrote:Typical f@cking Arizona football. How anyone can ever be positive about our program is so beyond me. Last nights game was just the latest in a long line of games where we show what poor to average recruiting leads to along with a lack of development along offensive and defensive lines.
We held a good team to only 9 fucking points to start the 4th quarter and that's not positive? We also played like shit on offense most of the night and we still should have won this game. I will also take that as a positive.

One last thing, at least our defense didn't quit like sc. That's negative by the way.....

:D
A good team? How's that? Let's see how that plays out rest of year. BYU ain't shit.
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ASUHATER!
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Re: This one hurts

Post by ASUHATER! »

wyo-cat wrote:I never enjoy a Cats loss, but after the initial emotional letdown I'm OK with this. The D held a good offensive squad to 18 points. That's almost a shutout compared to last years debacle on D. We didn't give up any automatic 3 & 20's which made me pull my hair out in the past.

The O was the problem this game, and I'm hopeful that it will all get worked out in the next couple of weeks.

We didn't get embarrassed (see USC) and played with a good team, who will probably end up in the 7-9 win range. We stepped out of our comfort zone, cupcakes first game, and it was apparent for most of the game. We will be battle tested and back in the groove when the Mutts come to town after running the gauntlet of Rutgers, Idaho and Portland State.

We got this!
hard to see byu getting a large amount of wins with their schedule. they still have to play @utah, ucla, @west virginia, @michigan state, mississippi state and @ boise state.
i was going to put the ua/asu records here...but i forgot what they were.

i'll just go with fuck asu.
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BBQ wildcat
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Re: This one hurts

Post by BBQ wildcat »

We have a 4th year Junior QB who STILL continues to make bad decision after bad decision. That is something that isn't going to be "fixed" if it hasn't been fixed by now.
azpenguin
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Re: This one hurts

Post by azpenguin »

Chicat wrote:When we had the ball, it didn't look like we had the urgency we've had in past years. Not sure if it was first game jitters and wanting to make sure everyone is exactly where they are supposed to be, but getting to the line, getting set, and hiking the ball almost seemed to be in slow motion in comparison to the Oregon State game last year when we were facing a similar defense.
I was noticing that and I thought it was odd. Looking back, I wonder if it wasn't intentional, with the mindset of slowing the game down a smidge for the defense. The biggest danger for this offense isn't turnovers, it's 3-and-outs. Turnovers happen, but a three and out when the team is running at fast tempo means that you just got your defense back on the field after running 30-45 seconds off the clock. Or maybe they were slowing it down to let the new linemen settle in. I don't know. That's all I can think of.
qwertyus
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Re: This one hurts

Post by qwertyus »

azgreg wrote:On a positive note I believe Nick Wilson lead the league in rushing.
He had a pretty great game considering he only got 17 touches. Which was partly because of our overall offensive weakness, but still.

17 rushes, 138 yds, 2 TDs, 2 catches for 11 yards. Keep him healthy, manage him throughout the year, and he'll be in the running for the best RB in the conference.
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Merkin
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Re: This one hurts

Post by Merkin »

qwertyus wrote:Keep him healthy, manage him throughout the year, and he'll be in the running for the best RB in the conference.
Well, maybe in the running for 2nd best after this guy:

Against Kansas State on Saturday, McCaffrey had 22 carries for 126 yards and two touchdowns, caught seven passes for 40 yards, returned two punts for 16 yards and a kickoff for 28 yards. He would have had even more if his best play from the game, a 97-yard punt return in the first quarter, wasn’t called back due to a penalty. Stanford won 26-13.
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azgreg
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Re: This one hurts

Post by azgreg »

McCaffrey is pretty special.
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gumby
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Re: This one hurts

Post by gumby »

azcat49 wrote:I think we will have a good crowd for Saturday. A lot of us are looking forward to the Grambling band
Lemonade!
Right where I want to be.
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gumby
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Re: This one hurts

Post by gumby »

Goal is 80 snaps a game, says RR. But ...
Right where I want to be.
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EVCat
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Re: This one hurts

Post by EVCat »

The spread option is worthless if the QB does not offer an option.

It's that simple.

Anu would be better served in a spread offense similar to what we did for Tui or Nick Foles, neither of whom were spread option QBs. But at this point, Anu either does not want to run, or cannot read the option. Time and again he left the ball in Nick's hands when the QB edge was wide open. Then he got chewed out and on the next possession he kept one with the entire QB run side collapsed and had to run back behind Nick and lost 3 yards. That means he isn't reading the defense, and it isn't a hard read.

So is it mental for him? And if so, I don't blame him. Has the desire to take the hits required in the offense been, for lack of a better phrase, punched out of him? He has been through a number of bad concussions. I would not blame him if his body is telling him "no".

But if that is the case, we either need to tweak the offense away from the QB read option, or we need to go with Dawkins.
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