Realistic expectations

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Sun Sep 11, 2016 3:06 pm

I think it's clear to everybody that overall RR has done a very good job with the Cats since he's been here. Clearly he's had better results than his two predecessors. However, I don't necessarily see improvement in the near future. With the new D staff and what appears to be an uptick in recruiting I'm willing to give him the rest of this year and the next to see what he does.

For reference, here's a link to all our head coaches and their records/results.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_A ... ll_coaches" target="_blank

At this point I'm not really sure what is a realistic expectation of our program. If it turns out that ultimately RR isn't the guy I think I'd like to see a young up and comer like we did with Miller.

scumdevils86 · Post by **scumdevils86** » Sun Sep 11, 2016 3:45 pm

I agree about a young coach that's just coming up I think. If RR finishes the season with less than 4 wins (which I honestly expect at this point) he will need to really pull off something big next year or he's toast. I know we're breaking in a new D but there's no excuse for the offense to be such hot garbage. We couldn't do anything against a 45 point underdog FCS school until they turned the ball over 6 times in a row.

Gladiator Cat · Post by **Gladiator Cat** » Sun Sep 11, 2016 5:01 pm

azgreg wrote:I think it's clear to everybody that overall RR has done a very good job with the Cats since he's been here. Clearly he's had better results than his two predecessors. However, I don't necessarily see improvement in the near future. With the new D staff and what appears to be an uptick in recruiting I'm willing to give him the rest of this year and the next to see what he does.

For reference, here's a link to all our head coaches and their records/results.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_A ... ll_coaches" target="_blank

At this point I'm not really sure what is a realistic expectation of our program. If it turns out that ultimately RR isn't the guy I think I'd like to see a young up and comer like we did with Miller.

Honestly, unlike other years I won't even pencil in a “win” for Colorado.

I can't believe I'm saying this but I would be amazed if we have enough wins to even make the New Mexico Bowl.

This team is woefully undermanned, under-sized and under-talented. Honestly in year 5, I don't see materially better talent than 2, 3, or 4 years ago and it wasn't good then.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Sun Sep 11, 2016 6:26 pm

Colorado even received a vote in the Coach's poll. ASU too. Can't say so much for Arizona.

9 straight bowl games for Pop McKale, 8 for Casteel in today's world. 9 seasons without a losing record for Dick Tomey too, 6 for Larry Smith, so the "RichRod set a consecutive bowl record" doesn't wash with 35 bowls for 70 teams now out of 128 Div I teams.

After 2 games, Arizona is 82nd in total offense and 101 in total defense.

PieceOfMeat · Post by **PieceOfMeat** » Sun Sep 11, 2016 7:14 pm

Merkin wrote:...35 bowls for 70 teams now out of 128 Div I teams.

After 2 games, Arizona is 82nd in total offense and 101 in total defense.

So, you're saying there's a chance we can be one of the top 70?

jimson · Post by **jimson** » Sun Sep 11, 2016 9:24 pm

I've been Johnny Sunshine lately because I did see some hope against BYU, but last night the defense looked worse and the offense didn't look so hot either.

I believe that Dawkins can get better but I don't see us having a winning season.

I am struck by just how tiny we look against these 2 first teams. What is the deal with that? Is it by design that we want smaller and faster linemen? or have we been unable to recruit linemen the size that Cal, Wazzu, BYU and even Grambling can?

RR said everything is fixable, but how do you fix that?

Honestly, I see us at 2 and 5 by November and have little confidence we can win one conference game all year.

I hope I'm wrong, but I just ground my rose colored glasses under my heel.

azpenguin · Post by **azpenguin** » Sun Sep 11, 2016 9:33 pm

UW is likely coming in as a top ten, so we got em right where we want em

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Sun Sep 11, 2016 9:53 pm

Year 5 and how much are we paying thus guy? What did Metk.poat, like 2-13 against the big 3 of theDC south when Smith was 9-11.

If he loses to ASSU, FIRE HIS ASS. It's only business RR

Gladiator Cat · Post by **Gladiator Cat** » Sun Sep 11, 2016 9:54 pm

azpenguin wrote:UW is likely coming in as a top ten, so we got em right where we want em

Azpenguin,

I always knew you had standup comedy somewhere in you're future.

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Sun Sep 11, 2016 11:52 pm

Why all the doom and gloom? We knew we were in bad shape talent-wise after last season. RichRod did too, thus the sacking of the entire defensive staff. We were all excited about that and the energy the new guys have brought to recruiting. So now a potentially bad season is looming, and we forgot all the longer term reasons we were getting excited?

Back to reality, folks. If you were jumping for joy about the new coaching hires, you shouldn't be banging the 'Fire RichRod' drum 2 games into the new staff's tenure.

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:16 am

Puerco wrote:Why all the doom and gloom? We knew we were in bad shape talent-wise after last season. RichRod did too, thus the sacking of the entire defensive staff. We were all excited about that and the energy the new guys have brought to recruiting. So now a potentially bad season is looming, and we forgot all the longer term reasons we were getting excited?

Back to reality, folks. If you were jumping for joy about the new coaching hires, you shouldn't be banging the 'Fire RichRod' drum 2 games into the new staff's tenure.

I would say many here did not think we were in bad shape talent wise. When I was ridiculing both the 2015 and 2016 recruiting classes as lacking stars the vast majority of people kept saying #OKGS, #OKGS, #OKGS, screw stars, you are wrong, Rich Rod is god etc. Then towards end of last season most finally realized our defensive staff sucked and were happy to get rid of them but took a while for many.

If you look at the poll with preseason predicitions, most people thought 7&5 or 8&4. That does not suggest most people thought we were in bad shape talent wise.

I have felt the new coaches would help but the overall poor recruiting since Rich Rod got here coupled with all of Stoops recruits being gone would negate it as it would be too little too late as again the most important thing in College Football is recruiting, recruiting, recruiting.

There is no way you could have watched that first half Puerco against Grambling and not at least had one thought of Fire Rich Rod

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 6:16 am

Newportcat wrote:There is no way you could have watched that first half Puerco against Grambling and not at least had one thought of Fire Rich Rod

I'm sure I would have. I thought it after I read the write-up when I woke up that morning. My main point is that a rational human being couldn't look at our performance last year, who was leaving, who was coming in and decide that, when added to a completely new defensive staff that we would have a better season than last. 7 wins? Sure. But if we end up with 5 wins, the defensive takes some steps (or at least we're happy with the style and scheme), and we have what appears to be a better recruiting class than we've had in 8 years or so, are you really going to want to fire the coach?

In my mind if you didn't want to fire RR after last season, then you should be willing to give the new staff a couple of years to see their impact on recruiting. And yes, I'm talking about stars here.

Personally all I want is a GOOD defense, and I want to see if the new young guys can bring us one. This season be damned. Now if RR suddenly loses his ability to put a good offense on the field, we've got some big problems, because the rhetoric has been all about those lazy defensive coaches who didn't want to recruit. If the offense goes down it paints a completely different picture.

scumdevils86 · Post by **scumdevils86** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:26 am

Well watching the last 2 games certainly makes it seem as if we've lost the ability to put a good offense on the field.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:40 am

scumdevils86 wrote:Well watching the last 2 games certainly makes it seem as if we've lost the ability to put a good offense on the field.

Exactly what I was going to say. Defense certainly gets a pass with a new coach and new scheme, but what happened to our offensive genius coach?

No points in the first half against BYU, 3 points in the first half against FCS Grambling, where the Grambling D looked bigger and faster. The play calling has become extremely predictable.

It's like the old Stoops excuse, we are keeping the playbook vanilla to save it for the tougher games.

BearDown89 · Post by **BearDown89** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 8:23 am

scumdevils86 wrote:Well watching the last 2 games certainly makes it seem as if we've lost the ability to put a good offense on the field.

I think going back even further into last season. It's been really stagnant for a while. I'm hoping the o-line can gel and find their way as a unit. That should help a lot. Tagaloa and deBeer were not good this week. Not a problem I expected to have.

As to the defense, begrudgingly I give them a pass for this season. Again. It was painful to watch Saturday night though. Atrocious.

I'm prepared to get rolled by the Pac-12 for the most part. If they start pulling some things together and making some strides and eeking out a win here or there, then it's gravy at this point.

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:27 am

at this point my expectations are to beat hawaii, beat oregon state and try to beat asu. anything else is gravy. we may give up less than 20 points a game in the non conference but i expect every pac 12 team outside of oregon state to lay 35-60 points on us.

scumdevils86 · Post by **scumdevils86** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:41 am

In our last 7 regular season games we are averaging 28 ppg on offense and giving up 36 ppg on defense with a 2-5 record.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:52 am

Wow, telling stats for an offensive guru.

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:06 am

Puerco wrote:
Newportcat wrote:There is no way you could have watched that first half Puerco against Grambling and not at least had one thought of Fire Rich Rod
Personally all I want is a GOOD defense, and I want to see if the new young guys can bring us one. This season be damned. Now if RR suddenly loses his ability to put a good offense on the field, we've got some big problems, because the rhetoric has been all about those lazy defensive coaches who didn't want to recruit. If the offense goes down it paints a completely different picture.

I would say our offense has looked bad and honestly next year should be worse. We lose all the decent WR's we have, one of our QB's will transfer leaving us little depth or talent there, I bet Nick Wilson declares as the guy is injury prone so should leave early and take whatever chance he has to make the league, and our OL returns most starters which I am not sure is a good thing based on how they looked in the first two games. This is one of the bigger concerns I have as with Rich Rod it seemed we always had an offense that could score points.

Catstatic · Post by **Catstatic** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:11 am

I think our chances improve if:

1) Team gets the wake-up call one hour earlier prior to games. Two of the worst first halves of football I can recall. Mackovicesque.

2) Occasionally let Dawkins play for Solomon: Maybe 1/3 of the game? His ability to run does open up the offense a bit. He will get better the more he gets to play. Does it seem our passing game is pretty much drop back in the pocket, look around the field, scramble a little, and then hope someone comes open? Isn't it supposed to be quick hitting? Don't recognize our offense this year.

3) Switch out running backs every series. Wilson needs more rest during the games, and others guys will get better if they get PT. Must not get Wilson hurt this year. RR needs to make every effort that both Solomon and Wilson stay healthy, especially for the ASU game. Seems to me he has a tendency to run these two into the ground.

4) If our offense improves, this team could be decent. If not, this is going to be a long, frustrating season.

Go Cats!!

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:12 am

Any one notice that when we empty the backfield that both BYU and GSU sent both edge rushers creating a 6 on 5 scenario. We still have not made the proper adjustments when the defense does that.

I think we need to use the TE more to offset some of those things. He could stay in and block or be used as a quick release valve

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:22 am

Catstatic wrote: 3) Switch out running backs every series. Wilson needs more rest during the games, and others guys will get better if they get PT. Must not get Wilson hurt this year. RR needs to make every effort that both Solomon and Wilson stay healthy, especially for the ASU game. Seems to me he has a tendency to run these two into the ground.

So much for Solomon/Dawkins, and Wilson/Bradford being co-starters. Bradford got maybe 1 carry v. BYU and 4 v. GSU.

I believe nothing that comes out of RR's mouth pre-game.

cordera89 · Post by **cordera89** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:30 am

azcat49 wrote:Year 5 and how much are we paying thus guy? What did Metk.poat, like 2-13 against the big 3 of theDC south when Smith was 9-11.

If he loses to ASSU, FIRE HIS ASS. It's only business RR

No chance in hell were Beating ASU this year.

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:49 am

My thoughts when starting this thread didn't necessarily mean this year but overall as a program.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:56 am

azgreg wrote:I think it's clear to everybody that overall RR has done a very good job with the Cats since he's been here. Clearly he's had better results than his two predecessors. However, I don't necessarily see improvement in the near future. With the new D staff and what appears to be an uptick in recruiting I'm willing to give him the rest of this year and the next to see what he does.

For reference, here's a link to all our head coaches and their records/results.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_A ... ll_coaches" target="_blank

At this point I'm not really sure what is a realistic expectation of our program. If it turns out that ultimately RR isn't the guy I think I'd like to see a young up and comer like we did with Miller.

My expectations for each season vary, while certain things stay constant (no cheating scandals, recruit good people, don't embarrass the alumni/community). This year I was expecting 7 wins and another crappy bowl. Now I'm expecting 4 wins.

Going forward, I expect us to be a 8+ win team yearly. If RR can get us there, awesome. Love his personality, style, and system. If not, see ya big man. Let's get someone young with a system very few others run. Someone like RichRod 15 years ago.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:57 am

cordera89 wrote:
azcat49 wrote:Year 5 and how much are we paying thus guy? What did Metk.poat, like 2-13 against the big 3 of theDC south when Smith was 9-11.

If he loses to ASSU, FIRE HIS ASS. It's only business RR
No chance in hell were Beating ASU this year.

Maybe Ballage will mysteriously come up lame like Kincade did in the GSU game.

scumdevils86 · Post by **scumdevils86** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:04 am

Yeah honestly now that we've been to what, 7 bowls in the last 8 years winning about 8 games every year...well like Chi said I expect that to be the baseline. Anything less than 8 wins isn't good and in order to show growth and progress we need to regularly be flirting with 9+ wins and division titles. Winning 8 games a year is nice and is a lot better than when I first became a fan and we won 3 games a year but the way the sport is now you have to always be improving.

That being said I don't see us winning more than 4 games this year. Which means RR needs 8-9 wins next year and to beat ASU to keep his job.

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:30 am

I think it is realistic to expect there to be a down period of a year or two while we recruit to fill the deficiencies on defense that came from the Casteel era. Realistically, the recruiting won't really have a lot of impact, minus a player or three that are early impact types, and maybe some JUCO depth filling and transfers, for 3 years.

But I don't think our struggles this year (I still see 7-5 as our final record) are 100% due to the defense, or largely on the defense, like last year. We have some QB issues...it appears Anu has regressed from the shots he has taken, and Dawkins is a #2. Dawkins may improve during this run with Anu out, and we will need him to in order to spring any upsets. But there is an offensive improvement, IMO, in the near future with the QBs already recruited and the line and RB depth. So I think we will see better offense and improved defense with some personnel/recruit impact and scheme impact from the new, energetic staff. I also think the defense will improve from early playing time caused by the rash of injuries last year. Not 1991 to 1992 like (that was a once-in-a-program situation with insane injuries leading to a group of NFL caliber players getting early PT. I think we had 48 scholarship players healthy vs ASU in '91?)

So I think there will be improvement in 2017 and 2018, and as long as we are maintaining bowl eligibility and not falling apart for those years, we need to wait it out to see the fruit of the change of defensive and recruiting personnel that is already evident for the coming 2017 class. It'd be silly to see our coach react to a deficiency like he did, fire the defensive staff, have immediate return in the recruiting world, then blow him out the door before that first class even reaches their Junior year. That would be change for the sake of change, and we would not be of value as a program enough to make a change worthy of the action. Rich Rodriguez is a proven coach in environments like ours, where doing more with less is necessary to compete against some big programs.

This year could blow up. But it would take something like 4-8 records the next two years to make it reasonable to make a move.

RazorsEdgeAZ · Post by **RazorsEdgeAZ** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:08 pm

Vegas Wins O/U this year for Cats was 6 games. Looking at the schedule preseason, I thought 6 games but that included a BYU win. So now at 5. Think getting a bowl bid going to be tough. But we'll see.

RR safe this year obviously. He'll get "auto" grace period time because he made the Casteel move. Bought him some time. Don't expect the Hot Seat to warm up this season even if no Bowl bid. Will though if he loses to ASU again. Then I would expect the temp to heat up going into next season.

May hear rumblings during the season IF AZ goes on a 4,5,6 games losing streak. But the Grace period, new defensive staff, time to recruit pleas will win the day. Lose to ASU and no Bowl bid and that will setup the Temp for next year.

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:10 pm

and, yes, Saturday was a hot mess. The BYU game? We lost by a point. They lost to a comparable PAC12 program in Utah by a point.

To me, the loss was not that big a deal and the win is the concern.

But it isn't like we haven't seen early struggles cause an entire fanbase to make woeful predictions that simply did not bear out, or get over-excited from some early season performance that did not hold true throughout the year. We don't really have much. I have said it before, and it is still true...this particular Arizona team is still a mystery to me. I don't know what we have, and we are two games in. We have some QB questions, but ultimately, the QB 1 and 2 are not total messes. We have a very good RB and some depth. We have WRs, though, honestly, this might be the big difference from past teams...we don't have a field stretcher with size. An Austin Hill or Caleb. Griffey seems to have a lot of upside, but it is time to see it. And our line is OK...and missing, through death, a big piece.

And then there is the death of Zach Hemmila. Some teams do the rah, rah "win one for our fallen teammate" thing, and some tank. I have always thought this is really much more about the actual relationship the player has with his teammates. It is easy to wear patches and put stickers on helmets and "win one for" the guy. But, to me, that has to be a really superficial relationship to really work. And a lot of sports teammate relationships are superficial...the LB really doesn't know the WR that well unless they become friends off the field for other reasons. But if the other starters were close to Zach, like friend close, the whole "win one for Zach" and having his girlfriend and family on the field before the game on the big screen looking like they'd rather be anywhere but there is going to have an impact on the team, and possibly performance. And that will subside as the season goes on.

I think fans sometimes lose perspective on what a college team is. Like they are a video game of players with certain ratings, so they should be static. But they really are college guys who do stupid things, break up with girlfriends and feel like crap for a while, drink too much, sometimes on a Friday, get moody, and sometimes lose their friends and mourn. I don't think it had one bit to do with the Grambling game (that was just so many individual mistakes that were fixable, like taking a hard angle on a ball carrier on a 3rd and 17 when it would have been easy to cut the angle and force him out 10 yards up field, but instead went for a point of attack hit and missed, or Dawkins trying to throw on 4th down after missing that slipped wheel route to Nick that could have been thrown up like a punt and fielded as such and still scored when he could have run for the 1st and more. Or the play before the FG, the 3rd down, when the hole was there but the snap was wide right and by the time Dawkins fielded it with his momentum going right, settled, and got the ball to the carrier going left, the play was blown up. A million of those that have to be fixed. But I do believe the BYU game was a Zach hangover, especially that 1st half. That was brutal, with the family and the girlfriend (and what an awkward position for her...she is going to move on with her life, date other people, maybe soon, but she will be filled with unnecessary guilt), and RichRod on the screen looking like he was about to start bawling, lip quivering, mom and dad pale and looking nauseous...I know I had a pit in my stomach that didn't shake for a while and I don't know any of them.

I guess I am saying we have some issues, but I am not writing this season down to 4 or 5 wins yet, and I am willing to give RR and staff time to pull this together short of back to back 7 or 8 loss seasons. I don't see where we get anywhere constantly turning over head coaching staff, he has proven he can win (we are 13 games off a 10 win season with a PAC South title), and I truly believe we got a better coach than our program can typically pull at its current state due to circumstances.

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:12 pm

Puerco wrote:
Newportcat wrote:There is no way you could have watched that first half Puerco against Grambling and not at least had one thought of Fire Rich Rod

I'm sure I would have. I thought it after I read the write-up when I woke up that morning. My main point is that a rational human being couldn't look at our performance last year, who was leaving, who was coming in and decide that, when added to a completely new defensive staff that we would have a better season than last. 7 wins? Sure. But if we end up with 5 wins, the defensive takes some steps (or at least we're happy with the style and scheme), and we have what appears to be a better recruiting class than we've had in 8 years or so, are you really going to want to fire the coach?

In my mind if you didn't want to fire RR after last season, then you should be willing to give the new staff a couple of years to see their impact on recruiting. And yes, I'm talking about stars here.

Personally all I want is a GOOD defense, and I want to see if the new young guys can bring us one. This season be damned. Now if RR suddenly loses his ability to put a good offense on the field, we've got some big problems, because the rhetoric has been all about those lazy defensive coaches who didn't want to recruit. If the offense goes down it paints a completely different picture.

Totally agree. Making moves just to make moves doesn't do anyone any good. We got to 10 wins in year 3, had a wheels-off-the-bus year 4 but still played in and won a bowl, and made massive staff changes ahead of year 5, lost a player to death, a QB to injury, and we are struggling.

Gladiator Cat · Post by **Gladiator Cat** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:27 pm

For crying out-loud..........Utah had 6 turnovers and still beat BYU. How is that even possible?

BYU is not a good team. Which should make everyone deeply concerned about the overall lack of talent in year 5.

cordera89 · Post by **cordera89** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:47 pm

Merkin wrote:
cordera89 wrote:
azcat49 wrote:Year 5 and how much are we paying thus guy? What did Metk.poat, like 2-13 against the big 3 of theDC south when Smith was 9-11.

If he loses to ASSU, FIRE HIS ASS. It's only business RR
No chance in hell were Beating ASU this year.
Maybe Ballage will mysteriously come up lame like Kincade did in the GSU game.

Merkin I'm not joking around with this. When the first conference game starts, their our going to be some doubt on how were going to fair against everyone on schedule.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:52 pm

cordera89 wrote:
Merkin I'm not joking around with this. When the first conference game starts, their our going to be some doubt on how were going to fair against everyone on schedule.

I agree. If you see my posts on Twitter about playing UDub first, you will see "beat down" mentioned.

I was talking 2-6 before the GSU game, and now I am even more convinced.

Wazzu, the Buffs and the Beavers I had penciled in as wins. Now I'm not so sure.

UALoco · Post by **UALoco** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:12 pm

...ok..I've been trying to be a good soldier and support my cats...I still support them but that first half was embarrassing..and the last thing an AD and the big boosters want to be is embarrassed. The expectation is that we'll dominate these cupcakes and that we'll compete against conference foes. We should not be blown out anymore. If UW beats us by 49-3 again, or something similar...the drums will start sounding...I don't think RR gets fired since he is on a new defensive coaching staff and he is GB's guy. That said, next year he will be on hotseat, unless they don't want to pay out the MLP shares. ....another thing that has me scared is that ASU kid that scored 8 td's..imagine what he will do to us....gives me shivers.

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:47 pm

Gladiator Cat wrote:For crying out-loud..........Utah had 6 turnovers and still beat BYU. How is that even possible?

BYU is not a good team. Which should make everyone deeply concerned about the overall lack of talent in year 5.

I think the bloodletting of defensive staff was an indication of concern of the overall lack of talent in year 5.

But I am not going to lose sleep wondering if I know better than the people who run this thing. I suppose we will see. But I have never really seen message board anger converted to wins.

Everyone has a reason for how they feel. I have supported mine. Fast start to year 3, coach trusted his DC too much, fell apart in year 4 after a 10 win season, he fired the whole staff and started over. We are 2 games into year 5.

What more do you want?

Gladiator Cat · Post by **Gladiator Cat** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 4:01 pm

EVCat wrote:
Gladiator Cat wrote:For crying out-loud..........Utah had 6 turnovers and still beat BYU. How is that even possible?

BYU is not a good team. Which should make everyone deeply concerned about the overall lack of talent in year 5.
I think the bloodletting of defensive staff was an indication of concern of the overall lack of talent in year 5.

But I am not going to lose sleep wondering if I know better than the people who run this thing. I suppose we will see. But I have never really seen message board anger converted to wins.

Everyone has a reason for how they feel. I have supported mine. Fast start to year 3, coach trusted his DC too much, fell apart in year 4 after a 10 win season, he fired the whole staff and started over. We are 2 games into year 5.

What more do you want?

The only thing I want is for you to afford me the opportunity to interject an opinion from time to time as I see fit. I'll likewise, respect you're ability to do the same.

Thank you!

dirtbags · Post by **dirtbags** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 4:05 pm

UALoco wrote:...another thing that has me scared is that ASU kid that scored 8 td's..imagine what he will do to us....gives me shivers.

ballage had a monster game on saturday and i give him all the credit, but that's just one data point. with the exception of one big carry, last year's D, injury-plagued and all, did a pretty good job containing him near or behind the line of scrimmage. so no need to start cupping his ballage just yet. richards is probably the tougher and more explosive of the two rbs, anyway.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:32 pm

You know I can give a pass on the defense, especially with changes we have made but this is year 5 of RR'S offense and its his recruits and we are running like a car trying to run on water.

If the offense had put up say 38 in both games and we were still 1-1 It would be OK but with the offense stalled it is a major red flag

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:44 pm

I was thinking about the thread title realistic expectations and one very realistic one is not having high or bad snaps. Thats reasonable enough to ask for right? At least Dawkins is tall and athletic to catch up a bunch of the bad ones on Saturday

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Tue Sep 13, 2016 3:22 am

Gladiator Cat wrote:For crying out-loud..........Utah had 6 turnovers and still beat BYU. How is that even possible?

BYU is not a good team. Which should make everyone deeply concerned about the overall lack of talent in year 5.

Weren't you deeply concerned about our overall lack of talent last year?

pokinmik · Post by **pokinmik** » Tue Sep 13, 2016 4:48 am

It was a great time making a semi-fluke Fiesta Bowl a couple years ago, but all it did was delay RR firing Casteel, who should've never had the job in the first place, and give people ammo to say RR deserves some slack. Fuck that. To have a DC that doesn't recruit in this day and age is INSANE. I don't think any of us were privy to Casteel's lack of recruiting when he was around the first couple years. All the talk was 3-3-5 this or 3-3-5 that. If we had known from the jump about Casteel's aversion to recruiting and his contract clauses we would've been pissed. RichRod gets the blame, that's just how it is. He made the call to hire his buddy Casteel and made the call to keep his paycheck-collecting ass around. If we only win 3-4 games this year with a loss to ASU, RR should be fired on principle.

catgrad97 · Post by **catgrad97** » Tue Sep 13, 2016 8:28 am

While I don't disagree with a fact in your outrage, pokinmik, the offense was the reason Arizona hired RichRod, and if he is to go, it should be because of that.

As shocked as I was about the amount of defensive coach welfare going on, that's not cause enough for letting him go. It is plenty of damage to his credibility, particularly with the flirtation with South Carolina, but as far as his job status, let him fall on his own sword if that is to happen.

Will that mean blowout city this year? Probably, but it certainly won't be Yates' fault--no matter what RichRod said in the BYU postgame. A punchless offense goes back to the man who sold it here in the first place.

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Tue Sep 13, 2016 8:36 am

I was embarrassed and frustrated Saturday but with a guy making his first start and the team overlooking GSU, I will wait to see how they look the next two games before throwing the towel on a good season and the future of RR.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Tue Sep 13, 2016 8:38 am

pokinmik wrote:It was a great time making a semi-fluke Fiesta Bowl a couple years ago, but all it did was delay RR firing Casteel, who should've never had the job in the first place, and give people ammo to say RR deserves some slack. Fuck that. To have a DC that doesn't recruit in this day and age is INSANE. I don't think any of us were privy to Casteel's lack of recruiting when he was around the first couple years. All the talk was 3-3-5 this or 3-3-5 that. If we had known from the jump about Casteel's aversion to recruiting and his contract clauses we would've been pissed. RichRod gets the blame, that's just how it is. He made the call to hire his buddy Casteel and made the call to keep his paycheck-collecting ass around. If we only win 3-4 games this year with a loss to ASU, RR should be fired on principle.

I can't get on board with this. Saying RR should have fired Casteel after the Fiesta Bowl season is hindsight being 20/20. No football coach ever makes that decision in real time.

Saying it should have happened sooner than that season, well, that's saying RR should have pulled the trigger with us trending upwards and in the first two years of Casteel being here. I don't see that as reasonable either.

pokinmik · Post by **pokinmik** » Tue Sep 13, 2016 9:29 am

True, CG97, if the offense picks back up that might calm me down some haha. But so far this year the offense looks awful other than Wilson who is solid.

Spiff, of course it is 20/20 hindsight. But that is what people get fired for. It is literally the only way you can fire someone for their performance - by looking at the past, comparing it to the present status. Casteel was never an asset. AZ football has been okay with RR because the offense always dropped 35+. The defense pretty much always sucked, and the one year it was semi-decent was because Scooby was a one-man wrecking crew and had one of the greatest individual seasons in college football history.

TyrantCat · Post by **TyrantCat** » Tue Sep 13, 2016 9:49 am

Insert "dumpster fire" image here.

dirtbags · Post by **dirtbags** » Tue Sep 13, 2016 10:19 am

Newportcat wrote:I was thinking about the thread title realistic expectations and one very realistic one is not having high or bad snaps. Thats reasonable enough to ask for right? At least Dawkins is tall and athletic to catch up a bunch of the bad ones on Saturday

absolutely. at this point, i don't think fans have any patience for not snapping the damn ball properly. freak incidents and extenuating circumstances happen to players, but it's more than reasonable to expect someone else to step into the role and be able to simply snap the ball. we are a p5 program, for fuck's sake. this shouldn't be an issue than spans multiple seasons.

RazorsEdgeAZ · Post by **RazorsEdgeAZ** » Tue Sep 13, 2016 11:05 am

Bottom line, RR brought Casteel and Kirlav (others) with him to AZ. Wanted his guys. Many of us were good with that being that was a main theme at UM that he didn't have Casteel with him to run 3-3-5 there.

Remember, RR all last season was saying not the scheme, not recruiting, fans don't understand, defense runs many formations. It was injuries. Injuries at key positions which losing 1 player at those positions was like losing 2 players.

RR allowed Casteel to get raises each year Casteel was here. Including a $170K raise after the 2014 year and Scooby awards. Not many expected Casteel to be fired then. including RR. Aside from Scooby in 2014, there were many signs that the 2014 Defense was worse than the 1st 2 seasons. heading wrong direction.

Not a main factor, but a factor I believe RR moved on Casteel was for survival. After 2015, he was taking major heat. Injuries line was getting old. Lost to ASU. He lost some face (support) with the SC flirting but didn't get a "credible" offer. Some Heat was on. He bought some time. If it works out, give him credit. But during 2015 season he was defending Casteel with both barrels. I believe RR runs his program. Byrne may suggest or share concerns, but believe RR runs the show, makes the decisions. It's his show, his program succeed or fail based on performance (NCAA, wins, academics)

12/5/2015 - RR "turns down" South Carolina job
12/19/2015 - AZ Bowl game
1/4/2016 - AZ announces Casteel won't return

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