Bear Down Wildcats

jimson wrote:What are you not hearing about Ken N? "He's a hot up and comer destined for a P5 job." He'll tear up recruiting" " Imagine what he can do with Tate "

He might be a great coach, but he is at least a year from sparking any interest in this program and that pretty much only if he wins the division next season.

Can we afford to tank attendance for even another year?

Attendance has tanked here and it has nothing to do with the next coach. Agreed? Lets not blame him for not fixing a problem that he didn't create and hasn't had a chance to fix yet!

Regarding attendance, though, the next coach (whether Sumlin, Ken N, BB, etc) would be wise never to bitch about it in public, and alienate potential fans. Just do your best and hopefully some fans come back; keep the bitching behind closed doors. Be cordial with the media and fans, give it time and some will come back.

I don't know that the attendance problem is unique at AZ, or that a new "press conference winning" coach is going to instantly make a big difference in attendance anyway; there seems like a cultural shift away from attending games that is larger than our school.

Chicat wrote:

btfd16 wrote:

chiefzona wrote:

Chicat wrote:What would y’all think about ol’ Mullet Gundy?

I would do 10 flips and buy beers for all y’all.

Same but there isn’t a chance in this world... that’s why I wish Mike Yurcich had more West Coast ties

Just thought I’d share the text messages I’ve been getting from friends with sources.



Sorry, I should say “sources”.

Careful! PPU might quote you

Everybody wants some sort of guarantee in this process. So they're comparing apples & oranges comparing Sumlin at A&M vs. Nuimatalolo at Navy. You have to do a lot of mental gymnastics to make a great case for either coach being a great success or a failure.

The hiring of Dick Tomey from Hawaii back in '87 was hardly a gripping moment. The first reaction was, "who?" The second reaction was, "who?" Hawaii barely had a football pulse when Tomey was the head coach. They were an afterthought. And Larry Smith before him was pulled from Tulane. Again, the hire did very little to ignite the fan base. Back then it wasn't about winning the press conference. And it shouldn't be that way today, either.

The bottom line is the whole hiring a new football coach is a crapshoot. Arizona needs to hire a coach who can recruit like crazy and who can hire solid assistants who can recruit like crazy. Going with an up and coming coordinator who has a proven reputation among the high school coaches on the West Coast seems to be the best choice. Baldwin? Sure, why not? We need coaches who are hungry and eager to prove themselves.

I'm more inclined to take a risk on a coordinator who's never been a head coach but who has a really good reputation. Sumlin had his chance. I'm more inclined to think he's cashing on his last real gig much like Mackovic and RR. So I wouldn't expect much different results. Gimme Baldwin or something similar just for a change of pace.

Attendance is not the head coaches problem. If he wins enough, fans will show. Just don't be pompous like RR. Reach out to the community and be genuine. People will appreciate that. Don't take yourself too seriously and be grateful for the opportunity.

chiefzona wrote:

Chicat wrote:What would y’all think about ol’ Mullet Gundy?

I would do 10 flips and buy beers for all y’all.

Yeah Gundy might be a bit of a freak show, but I'd be happy for him to be our freak show.

btfd16 wrote:

chiefzona wrote:

Chicat wrote:What would y’all think about ol’ Mullet Gundy?

I would do 10 flips and buy beers for all y’all.

Same but there isn’t a chance in this world... that’s why I wish Mike Yurcich had more West Coast ties

Yurcich is a stud.

I would take Lance Anderson over Kenny N

Chicat wrote:

btfd16 wrote:

chiefzona wrote:

Chicat wrote:What would y’all think about ol’ Mullet Gundy?

I would do 10 flips and buy beers for all y’all.

Same but there isn’t a chance in this world... that’s why I wish Mike Yurcich had more West Coast ties

Just thought I’d share the text messages I’ve been getting from friends with sources.



Sorry, I should say “sources”.

Gundy would be amazing. I'd take him over anyone else mentioned.

I'm with others though, why the heck would he leave Oklahoma State?

Gundy isn’t leaving the Pokes and coming to Arizona. He was just asking.

ztonyg wrote:

Chicat wrote:

btfd16 wrote:

chiefzona wrote:

Chicat wrote:What would y’all think about ol’ Mullet Gundy?

I would do 10 flips and buy beers for all y’all.

Same but there isn’t a chance in this world... that’s why I wish Mike Yurcich had more West Coast ties

Just thought I’d share the text messages I’ve been getting from friends with sources.



Sorry, I should say “sources”.

Gundy would be amazing. I'd take him over anyone else mentioned.

I'm with others though, why the heck would he leave Oklahoma State?

Stranger things have happened. Why did Lute Olson leave Iowa to become coach at then-lowly Arizona?

qwerty:

You brought up KN and RR as the measuring sticks, not me. My contention isn't with Sumlin isn't a good hire. He will improve Texas recruiting, create continuity on the defensive staff and probably have a good year or two with Tate.

My contention is with the binary position most posters seem to have taken in the last week.

-There is only one coach worthy of Arizona blessing him with our gift of a program. He will bring in recruiting classes like Tucson has never seen, fill the NFL draft and Arizona Stadium alike with Wildcats.

-Then there is the field, a bunch of losers not worthy of consideration who fans will abandon before they plunge Arizona back to post-Tomey depths.

I quoted your post because you named two coaches that have not won at a P5 school, then promoted a third coach who has never won at a P5 school either.

He's a risk, just like the rest. I don't think his positives, like recruiting, will translate to a place with our resources. I think schools like Arizona need to role the dice on up and comers.

And I stand by focusing on recent performance, not a first year outlier. Brady Hoke went 11-2 his first year at Michigan. Would you take him over Beau or Salave'a?

Gundy has been rumored to be looking to get out... but Chief is right, he's not leaving for Arizona.

Arizona would be a large step down for Gundy

Again, my general stance is giving the next coach the benefit of the doubt unless it is rick neuheisel or mark helfrich.

OSUCat wrote:Again, my general stance is giving the next coach the benefit of the doubt unless it is rick neuheisel or mark helfrich.

I would rather have Neuheisel than Kenny N and for me, that is saying a hell of a lot.

Chicat wrote:

btfd16 wrote:

chiefzona wrote:

Chicat wrote:What would y’all think about ol’ Mullet Gundy?

I would do 10 flips and buy beers for all y’all.

Same but there isn’t a chance in this world... that’s why I wish Mike Yurcich had more West Coast ties

Just thought I’d share the text messages I’ve been getting from friends with sources.



Sorry, I should say “sources”.

I prefer to call them "sauces."

This thread has jumped the shark.

chiefzona wrote:

OSUCat wrote:Again, my general stance is giving the next coach the benefit of the doubt unless it is rick neuheisel or mark helfrich.

I would rather have Neuheisel than Kenny N and for me, that is saying a hell of a lot.

Woah.... That is a lot. Not me personally, but woah...

Neuheisel has had success at multiple schools. Kenny has not. Common sense.

Just fanning the fire.

chiefzona wrote:Neuheisel has had success at multiple schools. Kenny has not. Common sense.

How would you characterize Neuheisel's job performance at UCLA?

They guy has coached at three Pac 12 schools where recruiting has been tons easier than recruiting to Arizona. So what leads you to believe he would be more successful at Arizona than he was at UCLA?

zonagrad wrote:

chiefzona wrote:Neuheisel has had success at multiple schools. Kenny has not. Common sense.

How would you characterize Neuheisel's job performance at UCLA?

They guy has coached at three Pac 12 schools where recruiting has been tons easier than recruiting to Arizona. So what leads you to believe he would be more successful at Arizona than he was at UCLA?

Neuheisel sucks ass but is better than Kenny N. That’s my point.

Oh God it's happening. Fire heeke

Kenny meeting with his staff tomorrow. Shit.

chiefzona wrote:

zonagrad wrote:

chiefzona wrote:Neuheisel has had success at multiple schools. Kenny has not. Common sense.

How would you characterize Neuheisel's job performance at UCLA?

They guy has coached at three Pac 12 schools where recruiting has been tons easier than recruiting to Arizona. So what leads you to believe he would be more successful at Arizona than he was at UCLA?

Neuheisel sucks ass but is better than Kenny N. That’s my point.

Based on what? I'm not defending Kenny N. but what about the guy is so disturbing? He's a successful coach at a unique place. Whether that translates to success in the Pac 12 is open to discussion. But I don't know how you can say he isn't successful. Clearly Heeke is intrigued by him because of the Tomey connection, who also happened to be a consultant to Heeke in the process.

Sage&Silver wrote:qwerty:

You brought up KN and RR as the measuring sticks, not me. My contention isn't with Sumlin isn't a good hire. He will improve Texas recruiting, create continuity on the defensive staff and probably have a good year or two with Tate.

My contention is with the binary position most posters seem to have taken in the last week.

-There is only one coach worthy of Arizona blessing him with our gift of a program. He will bring in recruiting classes like Tucson has never seen, fill the NFL draft and Arizona Stadium alike with Wildcats.

-Then there is the field, a bunch of losers not worthy of consideration who fans will abandon before they plunge Arizona back to post-Tomey depths.

I quoted your post because you named two coaches that have not won at a P5 school, then promoted a third coach who has never won at a P5 school either.

He's a risk, just like the rest. I don't think his positives, like recruiting, will translate to a place with our resources. I think schools like Arizona need to role the dice on up and comers.

And I stand by focusing on recent performance, not a first year outlier. Brady Hoke went 11-2 his first year at Michigan. Would you take him over Beau or Salave'a?

There are three coaches that we're being told are in consideration at the moment, AFAIK. Beau Baldwin. Ken Niumatalolo. Kevin Sumlin.

There is only one coach that will be a "splash" hire. That's Sumlin. He would immediately create a buzz around our program, and he is the most experienced coach out of the three, having coached at a P5 school and at Houston. He would seemingly bring with him Mazzone, who we know is a good OC. He moves the needle with boosters and fans. He has recruiting ties to the area, but would seemingly be pretty expensive, so IDK if we could get the best assistants.

Beau Baldwin is the young OC. He coached a bit at FCS Eastern Washington, but really this is his first big P5 coaching job. We could get him on the cheap, and get some great assistants. I'm fine with that too, but he's not going to move the needle on attendance or boosters, which is part of the reason it's so hard for us to make a big-money move for an HC. But in his favor, it would mean we're going the "young, hungry" route. Young HC. Young OC/DC. Young guys hitting the recruiting trail, hopefully building something here long-term. He has west coast recruiting ties, and hopefully would allow us to hire some more great recruiters.

Ken Niumatalolo is in the worst spot of the three, and IMO a really off the wall pick. He has no ties to anything Arizona. He has not been a P5 coach. He runs an off-the-wall offense. He's an experienced coach, but he's spent basically his entire life coaching at Navy. He has never been a head coach in an analogous school, at any level. No, Navy is not an easy job. But Army, Navy, and Air Force are all jobs that are unlike anything else in College Football. Maybe if he were going 11-2 every year, instead of one time (first year in the AAC, it's been worse each year since), I'd be more inclined to listen. But instead, he's won ~8 games a year consistently, and there are very few opportunities for big wins on that schedule, so it's not like he's getting a lot of opportunities for signature wins.

Sumlin isn't perfect. But look at where he ranks among his contemporaries. Dan Mullen went 20-20, and got the Florida job. Everyone who has a better record is way out of reach (Gus Malzahn and Nick Saban), and everyone who is worse/the same (Bielema and Freeze) is either terrible or embroiled in scandal.

We hired Rich Rod after he went 6-18 in 3 years at Michigan. How often do you see a coach, basically free of scandal, go 51-26, get the boot, and become available for Arizona? The answer is, not often.

Whoever posted "And today's attendance: PHXCATS" gave me a good laugh today. But it is now true. I will not give any tangible support to this program (tickets, wildcat club, etc) until Kenny can prove to me he wins without RR's player. I will always support UofA football, just not with my money.

I can't wait for the boards to explode when KM announces the New Mexico Shotgun Triple Option Offense.

Lets throw a 3-3-5 defense to top off the hatred.

btfd16 wrote:Whoever posted "And today's attendance: PHXCATS" gave me a good laugh today. But it is now true. I will not give any tangible support to this program (tickets, wildcat club, etc) until Kenny can prove to me he wins without RR's player. I will always support UofA football, just not with my money.

Where's the proof? Where? I won't believe it till I see it.

qwertyus wrote:

btfd16 wrote:Whoever posted "And today's attendance: PHXCATS" gave me a good laugh today. But it is now true. I will not give any tangible support to this program (tickets, wildcat club, etc) until Kenny can prove to me he wins without RR's player. I will always support UofA football, just not with my money.

Where's the proof? Where? I won't believe it till I see it.

"Prepare for the worst. Hope for the best." I am in preparation mode.

btfd16 wrote:Kenny meeting with his staff tomorrow. Shit.

Could just be meeting with his staff since the dead period is over and recruits will be on campus.

That's my hope anyway.

btfd16 wrote:

qwertyus wrote:

btfd16 wrote:Whoever posted "And today's attendance: PHXCATS" gave me a good laugh today. But it is now true. I will not give any tangible support to this program (tickets, wildcat club, etc) until Kenny can prove to me he wins without RR's player. I will always support UofA football, just not with my money.

Where's the proof? Where? I won't believe it till I see it.

"Prepare for the worst. Hope for the best." I am in preparation mode.

FUCK! Heeke is a fucking moron.

This entire coach search process has become a joke. Someone earlier commented on how Heeke is doing his job and leaking names is good and yadi yadi etc. Leaking names has turned this into a circus and there seems to be no end to it. Can anyone really confirm that that the Navy Coach was offered the job? Can anyone confirm that Sumlin has turned the job down? Can anyone confirm anything for God sakes? Who keeps talking about the new coach has to pass some press conference test or something. Hanson and Lev and the rest of them can go screw themselves or each other for all I care. I want a coach that builds a winning program and isn't a behavior nightmare and we need to hire someone pretty quickly. And if the guy Heeke hires is a bust then him and Heeke can leave town on the same bus.

With the $ Sumlin got from A&M, plus the package we pitched to him, money shouldn't be much of a concern. if he wanted to be at Arizona, he'd have accepted by now. Why would we want a coach who doesn't want to be here?

I don't think the answer at this point is to throw more money at Sumlin either. Sure, may increase the chance he takes the job, but if his heart isn't into it, it won't matter.

At this point I want the guy who wants the job.

Scheer and Hansen sure have man crushes on Niumatalolo. Are they trying to get first access to him?

A quick peak of downtown Tucson when Ken is announced:

So let me get this right. We're about to bring in a coach that has zero west coast ties, zero west coast recruiting experience and zero west/south west coaching connections.

And to top it off hes going to bring and outdated, obsolete, triple option run scheme and try to run that shit up against the big power horses in the PAC 12.

I would literally think this was a joke if I didn't know better. What big-time, top ranked offensive Cali, Washington, Ore, Arizona or Texas recruits living room are you going to walk into and convince them they can come to Arizona and be a star...........playing the triple option scheme from 30 years ago.

To make this work you would literally have to have the second coming of the 'Desert Swarm" reincarnated on defense.

I will be the first one to eat crow and wave a UofA flag in the front row of Arizona stadium if Kenny does well. But he has to prove it to me without Khalil.

All these idiotic posts about not watching. Fuck you. You are literally the top 5% of the fan base that frequents an independent message board that you had to seek to find. You’re not gonna watch? Not gonna spend money on merch?

Not gonna watch a potential Heisman play in your favorite uni?

Bullshit

Be upset if you want. But don’t be a fucking douchebag

Oh on the off chance you’re serious? Go root for asu, you fucking asshole.

Olsondogg wrote:All these idiotic posts about not watching. Fuck you. You are literally the top 5% of the fan base that frequents an independent message board that you had to seek to find. You’re not gonna watch? Not gonna spend money on merch?

Not gonna watch a potential Heisman play in your favorite uni?

Bullshit

Be upset if you want. But don’t be a fucking douchebag

Oh on the off chance you’re serious? Go root for asu, you fucking asshole.

I said I will still support and watch UofA, just not with my money?

Merkin wrote:Scheer and Hansen sure have man crushes on Niumatalolo. Are they trying to get first access to him?

A quick peak of downtown Tucson when Ken is announced:

They have hard ons because they are so afraid of losing subscribers. Their buddies have sold them out and they realize their stupidity. Remember, they get paid for this.

No one is happy about becoming a legit mid of the pack mountain west team tonight. I honestly can't believe every day got worse. First sumlin, then Beau then some Jack ass in Kentucky now this. Day after day this dumb ass ad ruined the program. Would rather have dealt with a sexual harassment lawsuit while Tate was doing his thing. Miller must love to not have competition. Even in a sanction year he will still be top dog. Genius if that was heekes plan

Its K train time!

I am trying to talk myself into Ken. Might get there in time once staff is announced.

If this hire happens I will never make fun of asu football again. This shit always happens. Just when we have a chance to make them look worse than they already are we always seem to screw it up and go tit for tat. You'll hire old and out of it Herm Edwards, OK, we'll run the god damn grandad triple option. You're kidding yourself if you think Arizona will be able to sell the triple option to recruites out west. Get that old shit out of here.

Merkin wrote:Scheer and Hansen sure have man crushes on Niumatalolo. Are they trying to get first access to him?

A quick peak of downtown Tucson when Ken is announced:

Hansen is a contrarian who likes to try and pen the feel-good story.

Moderators for fan websites promote the agenda of the people in charge because that is their job and their lifeline. I have no problem with that... it is an honest living. What I have a problem with is them trying to pass themselves as "journalists" or "members of the free press".

They are to leaders of UA Athletic programs what Hannity/O'Reilly is to the Trump Admin, or Olbermann/ Maddow is to all things left.

Harvey Specter wrote:

Merkin wrote:Scheer and Hansen sure have man crushes on Niumatalolo. Are they trying to get first access to him?

A quick peak of downtown Tucson when Ken is announced:

Hansen is a contrarian who likes to try and pen the feel-good story.

Moderators for fan websites promote the agenda of the people in charge because that is their job and their lifeline. I have no problem with that... it is an honest living. What I have a problem with is them trying to pass themselves as "journalists" or "members of the free press".

They are to leaders of UA Athletic programs what Hannity/O'Reilly is to the Trump Admin, or Olbermann/ Maddow is to all things left.

Usually hate bringing politics into this, but that is not a bad comparison.

I'll support whoever is hired because I support the team. KN is just a fucking terrible hire, that's all.

A. Fucking. Terrible. Bullshit. Hire.

Georgia Tech runs the same triple option as Navy does in the ACC, a basketball conference, and has 1 bowl game the last 3 years.

qwertyus wrote:I'll support whoever is hired because I support the team. KN is just a fucking terrible hire, that's all.

A. Fucking. Terrible. Bullshit. Hire.

I understand the reaction. And actually, it's not unlike the hire of Tomey 30 years ago from Hawaii. Who the hell was Dick Tomey? Hawaii was so far off the football map it wasn't even funny. But Tomey had a good lineage and bloodlines, much like coach N. Will they translate the same? Coach N is getting this job precisely because Tomey was a consultant to Heeke and preached about getting a coach who can build a culture at Arizona. The biggest question for me is what kind of staff will the new head coach put together and how will that translate to recruiting.

I'm not concerned about running the triple option. If that's part of the deal, then yes we're truly screwed. But I don't think a coach like N. is married to that offense. It's simply what works best at a service academy because is gives you the best chance for success.

Hiring coach N. certainly doesn't win the press conference. But come next fall, if the program is headed in the right direction then nobody will remember the press conference. Back to Tomey's hiring, that was about as close to losing the press conference as you could get. And Tomey's first season certainly underwhelmed with 3 ties. But the culture was built for Arizona football. It slogged along a few years and then really got rolling in the 90's. I think that's Heeke's strategy, like it or not.

Merkin wrote:Georgia Tech runs the same triple option as Navy does in the ACC, a basketball conference, and has 1 bowl game the last 3 years.

Its a good thing that Arizona didn't hire the Georgia tech coach then.

Instead Arizona might hire a coach that did this.

I don't think we can compare it to the Tomey hire because the game has changed so much, but spot on about your question of staff and recruiting. Also, come next fall, I don't feel like we can judge a Niumatalolo team. If you only look at wins, the program was still "headed in the right direction" under RR (again, can't stress enough, only looking at wins).