Bear Down Wildcats

After the 15 signings (without a coach), I've been looking over our roster. It's easy to wave a hand and dismiss it because of the winless record and blowout by ASU. But, it's also a roster that was within a few slightly longer fingers of an interception and beating USC. I'm not sure what the circumstances will be with the seniors, who if I understand things correctly, can choose to return next season. It's not like many of them will have much in the way of pro football opportunities, but I'm also sure some of them will just want to turn the page. That may not be bad in all cases. It also sounds like the transfer portal will be thrown wide open. Recently, it's been a net loss for us, as the Schoolers and Fields transfers really hurt, but you never know with a new coach how playing time will be viewed. We had 5 players opt out of playing due to Covid, 4 injured, and 2 suspended. These were all generally pretty good players who can return. The recruiting class is certainly not great, but we didn't get wiped out. My point is that I don't think the cupboard is anywhere near as bare as it was for Stoops after Mackovic. And, while I'm fairly sure the new coach will install his intended long-term system, I wouldn't be averse to a year or two of option football if it would make us more competitive sooner, and that's also a possibility. It's just nice to have some realistic positives in the relatively near-term, instead of just waiting for the sand to run out of Sumlin's hourglass.

I think the first half of the (short) season was more indicative of the roster. After Washington we started bleeding players to the point that we only had 55 scholarship players avail for ASSu.

azgreg wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:53 am I think the first half of the (short) season was more indicative of the roster. After Washington we started bleeding players to the point that we only had 55 scholarship players avail for ASSu.

I mean yeah, but we were down 37-0 entering the 4th vs UW. We looked better than expected vs SC, but everything after that was pretty much a disaster, even before everyone opted out.

UAEebs86 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:09 pm

This is far and away my top choice. But I don't see why he would.

UAEebs86 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:09 pm

I have a hard time believing this isn't just a salary move at BSU.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:14 pm

UAEebs86 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:09 pm

I have a hard time believing this isn't just a salary move at BSU.

He might try to leverage his supposed interest for more money, but we aren't going to pay our next coach much more than what he currently makes ($1.85M).

That being said, I'd fall all over myself trying to get him to come to UA. Much more interested in Harsin than Ken N. or Brennan.

Harsin has been openly critical of the MW conference. Maybe he wants to get out but I'm not sure Arizona is the job you take to get out.

Anyway, if the hire is wrapped up in the next day or 2 I don't see how it would be either Harsin or Brennan as they play each other on saturday.

UAEebs86 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:09 pm

Boise St coaches who leave have some iffy post Boise career's; hypothetically we could get a Houston Nutt, Dirk Koetter, Dan Hawkins, or a Chris Peterson.

DrWildcat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:32 pm Harsin has been openly critical of the MW conference. Maybe he wants to get out but I'm not sure Arizona is the job you take to get out.

Anyway, if the hire is wrapped up in the next day or 2 I don't see how it would be either Harsin or Brennan as they play each other on saturday.

Yeah, if he doesn't like the MWC, wait until he meets Larry Scott.

Boise State coaches outside of Petersen are not successful outside of Boise.

Harsin - @ Boise St you are the big fish in the little pond.
Still like coaches who can succeed when they aren't the most 'storied' program in their league

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:49 pm Boise State coaches outside of Petersen are not successful outside of Boise.

It's the magic of the blue turf.

Harsin is looking to get paid ... by Boise.

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:49 pm Boise State coaches outside of Petersen are not successful outside of Boise.

I always find these type of arguments sort of silly.

My wife eventually had break ups with all of her boyfriends before me. With that in mind, should I have told her "no thanks" right before we got together?

Gunnell is going into the transfer portal. Some come some go, but we need to stop the bleeding for now. More reason to hire coach Ken today.

Chicat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:04 pm

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:49 pm Boise State coaches outside of Petersen are not successful outside of Boise.

I always find these type of arguments sort of silly.

My wife eventually had break ups with all of her boyfriends before me. With that in mind, should I have told her "no thanks" right before we got together?

That’s not even a logical comparison lol. Was your wife a successfully built woman where literally all any man had to do was continue the culture that was already put in place by other men? They then left her for a better life partner? It’s a pretty awful comparison on your part to your wife Chi.

Either way Boise State culture is at a different level. The program breeds success, so literally anyone that coaches there is successful. Arizona does not have that culture. It literally needs to be built. All Harsin had to do Boise was continue what has worked for decades now.

Chicat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:04 pm

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:49 pm Boise State coaches outside of Petersen are not successful outside of Boise.

I always find these type of arguments sort of silly.

My wife eventually had break ups with all of her boyfriends before me. With that in mind, should I have told her "no thanks" right before we got together?

To be honest, I don't know your wife and this seems like a loaded question.

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:16 pm

Chicat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:04 pm

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:49 pm Boise State coaches outside of Petersen are not successful outside of Boise.

I always find these type of arguments sort of silly.

My wife eventually had break ups with all of her boyfriends before me. With that in mind, should I have told her "no thanks" right before we got together?

That’s not even a logical comparison lol.

Boise State culture is at a different level. The program breeds success, so literally anyone that coaches there is successful. Arizona does not have that culture. It literally needs to be built. All Harsin had to do Boise was continue what has worked for decades now.

Could this same thing be said about Ken N? Took over Paul Johnson who pretty much had Navy at the same point. Good year (10-2) and then a bunch of 8-5 type years.

DrWildcat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:19 pm

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:16 pm

Chicat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:04 pm

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:49 pm Boise State coaches outside of Petersen are not successful outside of Boise.

I always find these type of arguments sort of silly.

My wife eventually had break ups with all of her boyfriends before me. With that in mind, should I have told her "no thanks" right before we got together?

That’s not even a logical comparison lol.

Boise State culture is at a different level. The program breeds success, so literally anyone that coaches there is successful. Arizona does not have that culture. It literally needs to be built. All Harsin had to do Boise was continue what has worked for decades now.

Could this same thing be said about Ken N? Took over Paul Johnson who pretty much had Navy at the same point. Good year (10-2) and then a bunch of 8-5 type years.

Now that’s a very logical point. The difference there is Boise is heads and shoulders above the rest of their conference in regards to recruiting talent. Needless to say that does not apply for Navy in the AAC.

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:16 pm

Chicat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:04 pm

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:49 pm Boise State coaches outside of Petersen are not successful outside of Boise.

I always find these type of arguments sort of silly.

My wife eventually had break ups with all of her boyfriends before me. With that in mind, should I have told her "no thanks" right before we got together?

That’s not even a logical comparison lol.

Boise State culture is at a different level. The program breeds success, so literally anyone that coaches there is successful. Arizona does not have that culture. It literally needs to be built. All Harsin had to do Boise was continue what has worked for decades now.

My wife’s relationships were all unsuccessful. Not one of them resulted in a lifetime of happiness. I took a shot anyway.

Check back with me in 30-40 years to see if I successfully changed the culture of failure.

Chicat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:20 pm

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:16 pm

Chicat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:04 pm

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:49 pm Boise State coaches outside of Petersen are not successful outside of Boise.

I always find these type of arguments sort of silly.

My wife eventually had break ups with all of her boyfriends before me. With that in mind, should I have told her "no thanks" right before we got together?

That’s not even a logical comparison lol.

Boise State culture is at a different level. The program breeds success, so literally anyone that coaches there is successful. Arizona does not have that culture. It literally needs to be built. All Harsin had to do Boise was continue what has worked for decades now.

My wife’s relationships were all unsuccessful. Not one of them resulted in a lifetime of happiness. I took a shot anyway.

Check back with me in 30-40 years to see if I successfully changed the culture of failure.

If anything your wife is a euphemism for Arizona Football and not Boise State coaches my man.

DrWildcat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:19 pm

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:16 pm

Chicat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:04 pm

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:49 pm Boise State coaches outside of Petersen are not successful outside of Boise.

I always find these type of arguments sort of silly.

My wife eventually had break ups with all of her boyfriends before me. With that in mind, should I have told her "no thanks" right before we got together?

That’s not even a logical comparison lol.

Boise State culture is at a different level. The program breeds success, so literally anyone that coaches there is successful. Arizona does not have that culture. It literally needs to be built. All Harsin had to do Boise was continue what has worked for decades now.

Could this same thing be said about Ken N? Took over Paul Johnson who pretty much had Navy at the same point. Good year (10-2) and then a bunch of 8-5 type years.

Maybe, but I wouldn't. Johnson had a single 10 win season. Niumatalolo's had 3.

More to the point, before Johnson, Navy had one winning season in their previous twenty seasons. Boise's been consistently successful under multiple coaches basically since they entered D1 in the 90's. Navy was a dumpster fire for two decades before Johnson took over, then Niumatalolo carried on just as well as Johnson.

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:21 pm

Chicat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:20 pm

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:16 pm

Chicat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:04 pm

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:49 pm Boise State coaches outside of Petersen are not successful outside of Boise.

I always find these type of arguments sort of silly.

My wife eventually had break ups with all of her boyfriends before me. With that in mind, should I have told her "no thanks" right before we got together?

That’s not even a logical comparison lol.

Boise State culture is at a different level. The program breeds success, so literally anyone that coaches there is successful. Arizona does not have that culture. It literally needs to be built. All Harsin had to do Boise was continue what has worked for decades now.

My wife’s relationships were all unsuccessful. Not one of them resulted in a lifetime of happiness. I took a shot anyway.

Check back with me in 30-40 years to see if I successfully changed the culture of failure.

If anything your wife is a euphemism for Arizona Football and not Boise State coaches my man.

Maybe.

Still doesn’t mean that Bryan Harsin is ALL Boise St. coaches not named Petersen.

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:21 pm

Chicat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:20 pm

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:16 pm

Chicat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:04 pm

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:49 pm Boise State coaches outside of Petersen are not successful outside of Boise.

I always find these type of arguments sort of silly.

My wife eventually had break ups with all of her boyfriends before me. With that in mind, should I have told her "no thanks" right before we got together?

That’s not even a logical comparison lol.

Boise State culture is at a different level. The program breeds success, so literally anyone that coaches there is successful. Arizona does not have that culture. It literally needs to be built. All Harsin had to do Boise was continue what has worked for decades now.

My wife’s relationships were all unsuccessful. Not one of them resulted in a lifetime of happiness. I took a shot anyway.

Check back with me in 30-40 years to see if I successfully changed the culture of failure.

If anything your wife is a euphemism for Arizona Football and not Boise State coaches my man.

That's really insulting to his wife.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:26 pm

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:21 pm

Chicat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:20 pm

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:16 pm

Chicat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:04 pm

I always find these type of arguments sort of silly.

My wife eventually had break ups with all of her boyfriends before me. With that in mind, should I have told her "no thanks" right before we got together?

That’s not even a logical comparison lol.

Boise State culture is at a different level. The program breeds success, so literally anyone that coaches there is successful. Arizona does not have that culture. It literally needs to be built. All Harsin had to do Boise was continue what has worked for decades now.

My wife’s relationships were all unsuccessful. Not one of them resulted in a lifetime of happiness. I took a shot anyway.

Check back with me in 30-40 years to see if I successfully changed the culture of failure.

If anything your wife is a euphemism for Arizona Football and not Boise State coaches my man.

That's really insulting to his wife.

He made the comparison, not me!

Arizona Football (Chi’s wife) has had failed relationships and is still searching for its successful relationship and culture (Chicat).

Chicat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:26 pm
Still doesn’t mean that Bryan Harsin is ALL Boise St. coaches not named Petersen.

He could for sure and he shouldn’t be judged by our administration on the fact most BSU coaches fail away from BSU, but it’s not a coincidence most BSU coaches do fail away from the culture and environment at Boise. It’s like Bill Belicheck assistants away from New England. It’s certainly way more difficult to build something from scratch than continue what already is built.

They most I know about Harsin is that he needed a defensive coordinator and he hired Marcel Yates.

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:30 pm

He made the comparison, not me!

Arizona Football (Chi’s wife) has had failed relationships and is still searching for its successful relationship and culture (Chicat).
[/quote]

I think he just meant his wife's never been to the Rose Bowl.

Is this not a good time for a little gallows humor?

I'm just not sold on Coach Ken. That being said I was sold on both Sumlin a nd RR and those didn't work out so well. Stoops I wasn't sure but in retrospect in spite of his gyrations on the sidelines and personal issues, he pulled this program out of the dumpster after what Makevic did to it.. I was even on board with Makevic and that was a disaster. I wasn't on board with Tomey. He was another triple option guy that was from Hawaii and didn't have a tan. I didn't trust him and boy was I wrong. My record of who I've been on board with and not been on board with hasn't been to good. So okay, bring on Coach Ken. lol

Here's the thing with AZ football.

If you think Coach "X" is going to be a bad hire at Arizona.... and we hire Coach "X".... you will probably be proven correct.

Welcome to Arizona Football!

Alieberman wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:10 pm Here's the thing with AZ football.

If you think Coach "X" is going to be a bad hire at Arizona.... and we hire Coach "X".... you will probably be proven correct.

Welcome to Arizona Football!

And the corollary to the theory: If you think Coach “Y” is going to be a good hire at Arizona . . . and we hire Coach “Y” . . . You will probably be proven incorrect.

ByJoveByJingle wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:15 pm

Alieberman wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:10 pm Here's the thing with AZ football.

If you think Coach "X" is going to be a bad hire at Arizona.... and we hire Coach "X".... you will probably be proven correct.

Welcome to Arizona Football!

And the corollary to the theory: If you think Coach “Y” is going to be a good hire at Arizona . . . and we hire Coach “Y” . . . You will probably be proven incorrect.

So true.

ByJoveByJingle wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:15 pm

Alieberman wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:10 pm Here's the thing with AZ football.

If you think Coach "X" is going to be a bad hire at Arizona.... and we hire Coach "X".... you will probably be proven correct.

Welcome to Arizona Football!

And the corollary to the theory: If you think Coach “Y” is going to be a good hire at Arizona . . . and we hire Coach “Y” . . . You will probably be proven incorrect.

Which is why it is the smart bet to always shit on whoever we hire.

It will make you look smart in a couple years (if not sooner)

If I were a betting man (or machina) {see what I did there? } . . . I would definitely bet the new hire will end up with shit on their face and money dropping out of their pockets as they board the plane out of Tucson a few years down the road.

ByJoveByJingle wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:26 pm If I were a betting man (or machina) {see what I did there? } . . . I would definitely bet the new hire will end up with shit on their face and money dropping out of their pockets as they board the plane out of Tucson a few years down the road.

and that would be every coach since 1986, when Larry Smith redeyed to USC, so a very good bet.

Even Tomey, who quit in lieu of being fired, was able to collect his pay as if he was fired.

Alieberman wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:10 pm Here's the thing with AZ football.

If you think Coach "X" is going to be a bad hire at Arizona.... and we hire Coach "X".... you will probably be proven correct.

Welcome to Arizona Football!

I'm pretty pessimistic about Arizona Football, but I'm not sure Stoops or RR were bad hires.

Stoops took over a decimated roster and built and had some success. He left us in better shape than he found us.

RR had our best season since the 90's and at least left a .500 team behind.

Compare that to Sumlin leaving a winless team with very few bright spots, and Stoops and RR were at least decent. Sumlin set us back significantly and whoever we hire has no real shot at even .500 level success right away.

UofAlum05 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:37 pm They most I know about Harsin is that he needed a defensive coordinator and he hired Marcel Yates.

Now THERE is a valid argument for why he shouldn’t be considered.

Chicat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:39 pm

UofAlum05 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:37 pm They most I know about Harsin is that he needed a defensive coordinator and he hired Marcel Yates.

Now THERE is a valid argument for why he shouldn’t be considered.

Or why Sumlin retained him when he had a bottom 20 defense under RichRod.

Merkin wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:40 pm

Scheer said it’s not to announce the hiring of a new coach.

Classic Heeke.

“I’ve gathered you all here today to announce that we are looking for a new coach. I will not be taking questions at this time. Please respect my decision.”

More competition now...

"Thank you coming to my Press Conference. I'm pleased to announce that President Robbins will be undermining my coaching decisions and making the athletic hiring decisions by himself"

Merkin wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:53 pm More competition now...

Who cares about chip Kelley, we’re worried about the Arizona coach. This should be on a different topic thread.

Alieberman wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:55 pm "Thank you coming to my Press Conference. I'm pleased to announce that President Robbins will be undermining my coaching decisions and making the athletic hiring decisions by himself"

“Hi! I’m Dave. It’s great to meet you all. Now let me ask you... have you ever thought of going into business for yourself? Have you also wondered how you can make money from home while empowering your neighbors and friends to do the same? Well, I’m glad you asked, because NuSkin is the wave of the future......”

UCLA comes into play because of candidates. Specifically, Harsin and Brennan, most likely.

Regardless of who we hire I'll be shocked if we can manage more than a couple wins a year in 2021 and 2022.

MountainCat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:58 pm

Merkin wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:53 pm More competition now...

Who cares about chip Kelley, we’re worried about the Arizona coach. This should be on a different topic thread.

Really? UCLA just done figure out that the Chip Kelly they got isnt lighting it up like he was at Oregon and burn the bridges on that one. But man how far Chip Kelly has fallen.

You knew it was fake when they mentioned Chris Petersen. That dude isn't coaching again.

Stoops wasn't a bad hire at all. He was a top assistant and one of the hottest names out there. And what he built from the ground up at Arizona was a solid football team that came within a whisker of a Rose Bowl in a year when the best returning player, Gronk, didn't play a minute due to injury. It's too bad Stoops couldn't control himself on the sideline, and ran off top assistants and couldn't replace them with guys of equal quality. If Sonny Dykes was with Stoops from the beginning instead of Canales, probably would have won a few more in the early years, and gone to another bowl game or two.

RR wasn't a bad hire either. A retread sure, but also a reclamation project after being fired from Michigan a year before the Wolverines won 10-games with a team RR built. RR also lead us to a 10-win season, and 5 bowl games in 6 years. It's too bad that his off-field issues made retaining RR a tough sell, because we likely beat BYU early and ASu late in and go at least 7-5 in 2018 and again go bowling with RR. And Arizona isn't the kind of school to fire a coach that goes to a bowl game.

We're not Alabama where you get the right guy and just cruise because you get whomever you want. Or even USC, where there's so much talent that you have to try hard to not have a 10-win season. We're Arizona, and we're going to ebb and flow and have to rebuild and suffer through the occasional difficult season. If we can find a coach that can average 7.5 wins to 8 wins a year, that would be successful, especially if it comes with the occasional 10-win season, even if it means the occasional 5-win or less season. Tomey was close with a .59 winning percentage and two, 10-win seasons, but after 14-years and no Rose Bowls, the welcome became stale. Especially after going 11-12 the two years after going 12-1 in 1998.

The next two years are likely going to be very lean, regardless of whom we hire. Let's hope we can get another Stoops who can build from the ground up so we can at least be competitive in 2022, before we hopefully start winning big in 2023. Because that's what we're looking at after what Sumlin has left us, and after all his best players have left us too.