Bear Down Wildcats

I get the animosity from fans...but walk a mile in another man’s shoes...

Hank of sb wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:Wow that was a mic drop if I've ever seen one.

Choo, there are a lot of people that bow at the alter and it appears (most often) they don't even know why. Yet, when the mic rudely gets dropped on their foot they still clamor for more.

I'm led to believe Billy Sunday said once: “The backslider likes the preaching that wouldn't hit the side of a house."

Olsondogg wrote:

Longhorned wrote:One rule in life is that nothing suddenly changes overnight. No use weeping over something that was lost gradually and then finally a long time ago. No point in wanting to hold onto things.

I’d agree with you in this situation.

However, your life is gonna be shocking if you think your rule is correct. My life has literally and suddenly changed overnight on a few occasions. So your rule is complete shit.

Well, who's fault might that be? You have been in the face of dissent--big time, and for years.

Who’s fault is what?

Why do I get the sense there are some "fans" who are waiting so bad to say "I told you so" rather than just letting the situation play out?

Such goes most message board threads I guess.

ZONACAT wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:

ZONACAT wrote:RE: Quinerly. If Book was crooked enough to take a bribe, it's plausible he was crooked enough to keep the entirety of it. Unless the FBI somehow tracked Book personally handing a family member the money, it's all talk but it was a way to solicit quick money from the financial advisor.

Which brings me to my next thought, what if Book was actually attempting to play the financial advisor? This random FA is paying 5k a month for influence, but "influence" doesn't guarantee results. Book could have gotten a year or two of stipend before the FA realized he himself was being played. What could the FA do at that point? Agents try this all the time and it doesn't necessarily guarantee the player actually becoming a client. Ryan Leaf did this. Arizona just had multiple guys in the draft and this FA didn't get one.

While you are absolutely 100% correct on this, the last point doesn't work for your overall point, because this whole thing didn't start officially until this summer, so his influence (if he had any or even chose to utilize it) wouldn't have come into play until this year's group.

I would also argue, with how nonchalant Book was about initially meeting and quickly agreeing a deal with this financial advisor, that this wasn't Book's first rodeo and he had likely been skimming agents and financial advisors for years.

Touche my friend, touche.

CalStateTempe wrote:Why do I get the sense there are some "fans" who are waiting so bad to say "I told you so" rather than just letting the situation play out?

Such goes most message board threads I guess.

You just made three declarative statements (above) and then you tell everyone to "wait."

CalStateTempe wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:

Chicat wrote:"Sean Miller went to work today" is really worthy of a whole article?

The media has already run out of things to talk about obviously. Wouldn't the article-worthy story be if he didn't show up?

I can tell you that the local media are chomping at the bit here and are praying that 97cats is right and Miller doesn't survive this.

That is so weird to me. Why? Miller is the best thing to happen to uofa bb since lute retired. He's a class act and represents the university and city well. Is it just the "if it bleeds it leads" mentality? I dont get why the animosity.

You think the local media gives two shits about the success of Arizona basketball? They care about themselves and their survival, which translates into access to the most important sports program in the entire metro area. Miller runs a tight ship, he doesn't allow these guys to be as close as they'd like to be and you can bet Kate Upton's sweet ass that they resent the hell out of that, because it belittles their very existence and importance.

So in the end Miller getting fired translates into 1. A huge massive story that will give them plenty of web hits for weeks and really months until a new coach is hired and 2. Miller getting them fired will certainly give them more access than they've had in a decade at least for a year simply due to the fact that Lorenzo Romar does not have the clout to tell them to screw off nor will he have the contract to do so and maybe depending on whomever would replace Miller permanently would be gee golly nicer to them and invite them to the party once in awhile.

I don't know if you follow these guys on twitter, but some of them are openly enjoying this. They've poked fun at Arizona football for a long time and have gotten away with it because well it's football, but this situation is different, they are like a bunch of little school girls over this story and the ramifications that may come from it. It disgusts me to no end. Michael Lev is excluded from this by the way, that man is a pro's pro, but the rest are awful.

P.S. When I talk about local media I'm referring specifically to the traditional local media, not the recruiting website guys.

CalStateTempe wrote:

Longhorned wrote:Reminder: A fan website that lost its press credentials was kept away from McKale in the interests of the program. Against the interests of the program, Book Richardson secretly took money from that website in exchange for information at the expense of the program. After he got caught, Miller allowed him to stay for years.

The players loved him. He had New York connections. We all know he wasn't the only available assistant coach with lovability and regional connections, but I guess Miller thought that was worth the risk.

Sounds like your alluding to what I suspected. Book rolled on miller.

I saw that happening a mile away. It's what weak minded people do.

I'm just saying we all thought it was dumb to keep Book after he took bribes from the shadiest person we know collectively. It told us that this is a guy (Book) who will break rules without regard for the program in order to line his own pockets with small amounts of cash.

Hank of sb wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:Why do I get the sense there are some "fans" who are waiting so bad to say "I told you so" rather than just letting the situation play out?

Such goes most message board threads I guess.

You just made three declarative statements (above) and then you tell everyone to "wait."

Fair enough, it at least I'm not building the funeral pyre and holding tight to lighter fluid and matches in anticipation of burning it all down.

Longhorned wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:

Longhorned wrote:Reminder: A fan website that lost its press credentials was kept away from McKale in the interests of the program. Against the interests of the program, Book Richardson secretly took money from that website in exchange for information at the expense of the program. After he got caught, Miller allowed him to stay for years.

The players loved him. He had New York connections. We all know he wasn't the only available assistant coach with lovability and regional connections, but I guess Miller thought that was worth the risk.

Sounds like your alluding to what I suspected. Book rolled on miller.

I saw that happening a mile away. It's what weak minded people do.

I'm just saying we all thought it was dumb to keep Book after he took bribes from the shadiest person we know collectively. It told us that this is a guy (Book) who will bring break rules without regard for the program in order to line his own pockets with small amounts of cash.

Agree.

To add to today's "life lessons" theme; i fully believe its the little things that give information as to the big things. How someone handles those innoucus details gives big insight into how they love their life. Kinda similar to you'll know everything you need to know about a person after playing a round of golf with them.

ChooChooCat wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:

Chicat wrote:"Sean Miller went to work today" is really worthy of a whole article?

The media has already run out of things to talk about obviously. Wouldn't the article-worthy story be if he didn't show up?

I can tell you that the local media are chomping at the bit here and are praying that 97cats is right and Miller doesn't survive this.

That is so weird to me. Why? Miller is the best thing to happen to uofa bb since lute retired. He's a class act and represents the university and city well. Is it just the "if it bleeds it leads" mentality? I dont get why the animosity.

You think the local media gives two shits about the success of Arizona basketball? They care about themselves and their survival, which translates into access to the most important sports program in the entire metro area. Miller runs a tight ship, he doesn't allow these guys to be as close as they'd like to be and you can bet Kate Upton's sweet ass that they resent the hell out of that, because it belittles their very existence and importance.

So in the end Miller getting fired translates into 1. A huge massive story that will give them plenty of web hits for weeks and really months until a new coach is hired and 2. Miller getting them fired will certainly give them more access than they've had in a decade at least for a year simply due to the fact that Lorenzo Romar does not have the clout to tell them to screw off nor will he have the contract to do so and maybe depending on whomever would replace Miller permanently would be gee golly nicer to them and invite them to the party once in awhile.

I don't know if you follow these guys on twitter, but some of them are openly enjoying this. They've poked fun at Arizona football for a long time and have gotten away with it because well it's football, but this situation is different, they are like a bunch of little school girls over this story and the ramifications that may come from it. It disgusts me to no end. Michael Lev is excluded from this by the way, that man is a pro's pro, but the rest are awful.

P.S. When I talk about local media I'm referring specifically to the traditional local media, not the recruiting website guys.

How incredibly disingenuous.

How's that for a declaritive statement hank?

CalStateTempe wrote:

Hank of sb wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:Why do I get the sense there are some "fans" who are waiting so bad to say "I told you so" rather than just letting the situation play out?

Such goes most message board threads I guess.

You just made three declarative statements (above) and then you tell everyone to "wait."

Fair enough, it at least I'm not building the funeral pyre and holding tight to lighter fluid and matches in anticipation of burning it all down.

The time to hesitate is through
No time to wallow in the mire
Try now we can only lose
And our love become a funeral pyre

Come on baby, light my fire

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUkIkRmUr0Y" target="_blank

Gilbertcat wrote:My fear is Romar pulled in a lot of top kids in his day. I don't assume he is clean and it's dangerous to assume he is the answer.

I don't mean this as a slight to Romar, because what happens in recruiting is coming to light, but how did he get Markelle Fultz from DC and why did he offer Porter Jr's dad a hob?

If we replace Miller, there's a 99% chance our replacement has done the same general stuff in recruiting.

What happens to all these coaches at their new teams?

Love the guy and not implying anything, but Dayton has a shoe contract...if something comes to light wheat does Indiana do?

The landscape of just nuked

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Gilbertcat wrote:My fear is Romar pulled in a lot of top kids in his day. I don't assume he is clean and it's dangerous to assume he is the answer.

I don't mean this as a slight to Romar, because what happens in recruiting is coming to light, but how did he get Markelle Fultz from DC and why did he offer Porter Jr's dad a hob?

If we replace Miller, there's a 99% chance our replacement has done the same general stuff in recruiting.

By following 'the rules,' he did it the "right way." Offering up jobs in plain sight was one; not having the local village idiot on your staff is another rule he made sure to follow.

97cats wrote:alright, Dudes peace out till later -- my gut tells me Miller is gonna have a tough time surviving this.

if he does, he really is a Witch.

This is the most head scratching post on this entire thread. Even the insiders have no idea what is going to happen next.

Chicat wrote:
Also, I have no idea of any sound reasons why I shouldn't merge this thread with the main scandal one. Please someone enlighten me on both counts.

There is no sound reason not to merge it. In fact, I can merge it for you if you like: I don't mind being the "bad guy" moderator in this instance.

NM's opinion is of no greater or lesser value than any other person's on this board. Therefore, it certainly doesn't deserve an entire thread which, on its own, does nothing but stroke the ego of the thread creator and further empower the thread creator's holier-than-thou attitude.

CalStateTempe wrote:What happens to all these coaches at their new teams?

Love the guy and not implying anything, but Dayton has a shoe contract...if something comes to light wheat does Indiana do?

The landscape of just nuked

You don't think that an Adidas school like Indiana is put off by Archie's prior dealings do you? Maybe that he won't know what to do with all the new money men, but that's about it.

Nuked is a good term.

Hank of sb wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Gilbertcat wrote:My fear is Romar pulled in a lot of top kids in his day. I don't assume he is clean and it's dangerous to assume he is the answer.

I don't mean this as a slight to Romar, because what happens in recruiting is coming to light, but how did he get Markelle Fultz from DC and why did he offer Porter Jr's dad a hob?

If we replace Miller, there's a 99% chance our replacement has done the same general stuff in recruiting.

By following 'the rules,' he did it the "right way." Offering up jobs in plain sight was one; not having the local village idiot on your staff is another rule he made sure to follow.

A few pages have you wrote how miller should be fired and we should self impose a draconian multi year self restrictions on scholarships and post season play.

Why? If miller is as following the rules of the landscape of that time?

Your splitting hairs here between miller at Arizona and romer at Washington doesn't carry much water.

az91 wrote:
This is the most head scratching post on this entire thread. Even the insiders have no idea what is going to happen next.

and I don't either, just that given what's transpired and the level of heat he and Arizona are under right now and will continue to be under (especially if nobody else is taken down/exposed here shortly):

"my gut is telling me he won't survive this".

that is the exact quote -- it's my opinion.

az91 wrote:

97cats wrote:alright, Dudes peace out till later -- my gut tells me Miller is gonna have a tough time surviving this.

if he does, he really is a Witch.

This is the most head scratching post on this entire thread. Even the insiders have no idea what is going to happen next.

delete... 97 above already says it.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:What happens to all these coaches at their new teams?

Love the guy and not implying anything, but Dayton has a shoe contract...if something comes to light wheat does Indiana do?

The landscape of just nuked

You don't think that an Adidas school like Indiana is put off by Archie's prior dealings do you? Maybe that he won't know what to do with all the new money men, but that's about it.

Nuked is a good term.

Yup, I was being rhetorical to make a point. Nothing is gonna happen to them, so why do we have to worry about Romars dealings on UW? Imo we don't. He'll adapt to the new landscape as will everyone else.

Unless everyone is ok with getting own junior college coach who never had any ties to the aau circuit shoe companies etc etc. good luck with that coach search!

97cats wrote:

NYCat wrote:Pasternak seems like he's too smart to do this type of payments. He'd simply give money instead of taking bribe money for pushing kids to sports agents/financial advisors.

If he did it of course,

the standard practice is to give, not take -- on the take put you, well, right fucking here actually.

and I'd say that's a pretty shitty place to be.

as for the alleged offer of 150k, there is nothing -- and Arizona didn't pay Bowen or Walker, that was Louisville and Miami, remember???

In the long explanation you posted (and thanks for that) about how this all works -- and has worked for many years -- is it plausible that the kids themselves don't know any of this is going on? How do they choose if they don't know the offers? If they do know the offers, can they credibly be called victims?

For the prosecutors' purposes, I can see that portrayal of schools and kids as victims, because they are pursuing violations of specific laws. But for NCAA purposes, how can they credibly say they were the victims?

If a family sues a school because it was assured eligibility, does it have plausible deniability that they weren't in on the whole thing?

Please let there be blood from other teams and soon...

The FBI probably has zero interest in leveling the playing field with a speedy exposure of programs, so I'm not counting on quick revelations that detract attention from Miller and Arizona.

97cats wrote:
and I don't either, just that given what's transpired and the level of heat he and Arizona are under right now and will continue to be under (especially if nobody else is taken down/exposed here shortly):

"my gut is telling me he won't survive this".

that is the exact quote -- it's my opinion.

So nothing has changed...and that is the problem?

We really need the lid to blow off this thing, implicate a bunch of schools, and leave the NCAA going "ok...reset" and our AD to say "you were operating in this era...nothing more. You stay as our head coach".

That sounds tough to have happen, but possible if Sean just let the process happen and didn't dirty his own hands. Has that been the change, if any? Does it appear he facilitates the process in any way?

Because, if this is just the cost of doing business, and he stayed clear of it, and Book went rogue without Sean, Sean SHOULD (opinion) survive. But are we hearing more? Or is it all just your gut that this might be too much if some others don't fall...and soon

I work in a health care corporate environment; (think banner, kaiser type places) and when go to give talks, legal is all over my presentation for the slightest thing. How is it that adidas legal allowed gatto to distribution all the cash and make connecting etc? Where they unaware or just looking the other way?

Seems like a lot of risk (like solubility of the company level risk) to take on for a player grooming scheme.

PieceOfMeat wrote:

Chicat wrote:
Also, I have no idea of any sound reasons why I shouldn't merge this thread with the main scandal one. Please someone enlighten me on both counts.

There is no sound reason not to merge it. In fact, I can merge it for you if you like: I don't mind being the "bad guy" moderator in this instance.

NM's opinion is of no greater or lesser value than any other person's on this board. Therefore, it certainly doesn't deserve an entire thread which, on its own, does nothing but stroke the ego of the thread creator and further empower the thread creator's holier-than-thou attitude.

You guys take this stuff way too seriously. Who cares if there's another thread. It lives or dies of its own accord. What difference does it make. None.

Can we go back to the days where we were criticizing PJC as the weak link? Hopefully Miller survives this storm.

Like Hansen tweeted yesterday, where is the statement of support for Miller from the UA prez and AD?

Not a good sign.

Olsondogg wrote:I get the animosity from fans...but walk a mile in another man’s shoes...

What if I wear different size shoes

ChooChooCat wrote:

Longhorned wrote:Reminder: A fan website that lost its press credentials was kept away from McKale in the interests of the program. Against the interests of the program, Book Richardson secretly took money from that website in exchange for information at the expense of the program. After he got caught, Miller allowed him to stay for years.

The players loved him. He had New York connections. We all know he wasn't the only available assistant coach with lovability and regional connections, but I guess Miller thought that was worth the risk.

Another reminder: Book Richardson was offered by Louisville to be an assistant for more money than Arizona was paying him, but he was loyal to Sean Miller very likely due to the scenario Longhorned just outlined.

It all comes full circle.

God damnit

After a good nights sleep, I'm sensing Arizona is getting more external pressure (media and Alumni Jonny barstool who would never pay to go to a game, but is "shocked, shocked i tell you" at money influencing the game) rather than internal pressure (dedicated fans and boosters) to make a change at the top.

CatsbyAZ wrote:I would like to keep Sean Miller at a cost to my own personal decency (thinking about it for 2 nights now).

I would.

Those were the rules, spoken or unspoken, at the time. NCAA has one set. Universities and $hoe companie$ had another.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Gilbertcat wrote:My fear is Romar pulled in a lot of top kids in his day. I don't assume he is clean and it's dangerous to assume he is the answer.

I don't mean this as a slight to Romar, because what happens in recruiting is coming to light, but how did he get Markelle Fultz from DC and why did he offer Porter Jr's dad a hob?

If we replace Miller, there's a 99% chance our replacement has done the same general stuff in recruiting.

In regards to Fultz, he was not a high major prospect when Romar and his staff identified him and starting recruiting him. He and his staff were the first to believe in him prior to him blowing up into the prospect he became. Now maybe some money was part of the deal, but most of that recruitment was Romar simply beating every one to the punch on the kid and out evaluating the competition. On the outside looking in that was a pure recruitment with a very honest decision made by Fultz with the caveat of Fultz probably got some sort of dollar amount, but he would've made more at another program of course.

NYCat wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:I get the animosity from fans...but walk a mile in another man’s shoes...

What if I wear different size shoes

Or different brand shoes? Lol

CalStateTempe wrote:

Hank of sb wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Gilbertcat wrote:My fear is Romar pulled in a lot of top kids in his day. I don't assume he is clean and it's dangerous to assume he is the answer.

I don't mean this as a slight to Romar, because what happens in recruiting is coming to light, but how did he get Markelle Fultz from DC and why did he offer Porter Jr's dad a hob?

If we replace Miller, there's a 99% chance our replacement has done the same general stuff in recruiting.

By following 'the rules,' he did it the "right way." Offering up jobs in plain sight was one; not having the local village idiot on your staff is another rule he made sure to follow.

A few pages have you wrote how miller should be fired and we should self impose a draconian multi year self restrictions on scholarships and post season play.

Why? If miller is as following the rules of the landscape of that time?

Your splitting hairs here between miller at Arizona and romer at Washington doesn't carry much water.

Splitting hairs? No I'm not.

We already know 100% that one of Miller's staff was not following the rules. (I am not aware that Romar's career ever got to this point.)The FBI, an Arizona independent counsel, the Pac-12 and the NCAA (lastly) will all want to prove their law-abiding enforcement bonafides. Hence, well you can figure out what comes next.

Sanctions are coming: there is no point awaiting them. The sooner we self-sanction the sooner our recruiting can start over, possibly recruiting can start a year or two sooner. Makes sense to me, especially when considering we have a great team to field THIS YEAR. Delaying the process is not only logical, it seems stupid not to.

We can self-sanction today based on what we already know. We can let Sean Miller's viability play itself out--that issue we should know by season's start.

As it is we'll be fielding several 3-star players for awhile. If we can keep Brandon Williams, Arizona basketball--emphasize basketball- will be decent during the transition.

Merkin wrote:Like Hansen tweeted yesterday, where is the statement of support for Miller from the UA prez and AD?

Not a good sign.

sorry, but this is bullshit. What is Miller directly accused of? What has he done wrong? What is he or any others supposed to say about the FBI investigation?

Show of support for what? "We'd like to support Coach Miller in a situation where his coach was arrested...."

Stupid. They made a statement, a few in fact...one mentioning an internal investigation. Hansen is going hansen on this and adding to the pressure that has been mentioned in this thread from the local media.

Miller has been under pressure (as stupid as I think it is) at the end of every season that doesn't end with a Final 4. Obviously this year is different at the onset. Lot's of people were expecting more things to happen (ironically? like at Alabama) and when things are quiet, people get nervous when the hounds at the door bark louder.

But shit like that Hansen stuff and the idiotic mumblings of "fans" waking up to the realities of big business are annoying.

I truthfully worry about Miller going down the road of "I don't fucking care about this shit anymore, I just want to coach..." and sitting on a beach for a couple years and popping up somewhere else.

That's my worry.

Frankly, Mr. Shankly, it's like my girlfriend in a coma and I know, I know, it's serious.

My opinion is that the university must make a decision on Miller sooner than later for this season. They cannot suddenly decide to let Miller go 1 week before the season or during the year.

I personally believe They have this weekend weekend to decide if they are going with Miller through thick and thin or it's time to move on.

I'm curious if we poll this board what the results would be 65/35 keep Miller?

CalStateTempe wrote:I work in a health care corporate and when go to give talks, legal is all over my presentation for the slightest thing. How is it that adidas legal allowed gatto to distribution all the cash and make connecting etc? Where they unaware or just looking the other way?

Seems like a lot of risk (like solubility of the company level risk) to take on for a player grooming scheme.

First, you basically can't run a youth basketball organization without this. If you want a good look at it, read George Dohrmann's "Play Their Hearts Out." Distributing cash is the core principle of AAU, to get the best teams and players.

Second, I don't think a lot of people considered this particularly illegal. There are even legal articles criticizing this theory of investigation and charging. From a shoe company's perspective, they'll be paying the kid way more in a year. Yeah, it's an NCAA violation, but TFerg got a million plus UA deal the day he announced he was going to Australia. The base concept of giving money to players really isn't particularly illegal.

Finally, Nike is the 800 pound gorilla in AAU and shoes. They have been at this a LONG time. Adidas had to take risks that Nike didn't.

Post of the day so far Odogg

Merkin wrote:Like Hansen tweeted yesterday, where is the statement of support for Miller from the UA prez and AD?

Not a good sign.

Zero chance this happens. The sooner an announcement about Miller's future comes from Arizona, the more it indicates he's fired. The longer it is quiet, the better chance he stays.

Frybry02 wrote:My opinion is that the university must make a decision on Miller sooner than later for this season. They cannot suddenly decide to let Miller go 1 week before the season or during the year.

I personally believe They have this weekend weekend to decide if they are going with Miller through thick and thin or it's time to move on.

I'm curious if we poll this board what the results would be 65/35 keep Miller?

If so, I'm still completely lost as to what reason 35% would want Miller gone, unless it's an unrelated issue about his coaching or personal.

Exactly LH

"He's not clean like Lute!!"

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Merkin wrote:Like Hansen tweeted yesterday, where is the statement of support for Miller from the UA prez and AD?

Not a good sign.

Zero chance this happens. The sooner an announcement about Miller's future comes from Arizona, the more it indicates he's fired. The longer it is quiet, the better chance he stays.

Ding ding ding we have a winner

Someone posted this on FB clever.

Merkin wrote:Like Hansen tweeted yesterday, where is the statement of support for Miller from the UA prez and AD?

Not a good sign.

Meaningless IMO. Where is USC's support for Enfield? Auburn's for Pearl? Okie State for whoever the hell coaches their school? Tucson media just trying to stir up shit at the moment and nothing more. They're relevant right now Merkin, they want to keep it that way.

ChooChooCat wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Gilbertcat wrote:My fear is Romar pulled in a lot of top kids in his day. I don't assume he is clean and it's dangerous to assume he is the answer.

I don't mean this as a slight to Romar, because what happens in recruiting is coming to light, but how did he get Markelle Fultz from DC and why did he offer Porter Jr's dad a hob?

If we replace Miller, there's a 99% chance our replacement has done the same general stuff in recruiting.

In regards to Fultz, he was not a high major prospect when Romar and his staff identified him and starting recruiting him. He and his staff were the first to believe in him prior to him blowing up into the prospect he became. Now maybe some money was part of the deal, but most of that recruitment was Romar simply beating every one to the punch on the kid and out evaluating the competition. On the outside looking in that was a pure recruitment with a very honest decision made by Fultz with the caveat of Fultz probably got some sort of dollar amount, but he would've made more at another program of course.

That's why I have difficulty believing there wasn't something. Fultz blew up early enough that I'd be certain some schools took a shot at him and unless his sense of loyalty was just that strong...then add in Porter Jr. the next year...I'm not saying Romar is particularly dirty given the standard, but I can't see him as being a whole lot better.

Choo said it more succinctly than me. Well done.

Friday night news dump or firings? Plz, as long as it's not Arizona related