Bear Down Wildcats

BMalo wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:59 pm Former UM DC Don Brown is considered a top candidate. Spent last 5 years at Michigan and had defenses ranked #2, #6, #8, #10 and #56th nationally during his years there.

Fired retreads, an Arizona tradition.

I liked Brown for a bit at Michigan, but he regularly got killed by the most talented teams, and Michigan tailed off hard at the end of his tenure. They were flatly bad this year.

That trajectory worries me.

That's a gnarly jump in year 5 for a defense and the year over year trend is absolutely concerning.

...I would love to have the 56th ranked defense after recent years lol

Perhaps he can come here, get a fat paycheck, and coast for a couple years and retire. Dude is 65. And Arizona football is the land of getting paaaiiid for doing dick all.

btfd16 wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 3:25 pm ...I would love to have the 56th ranked defense after recent years lol

Exactly.

When was the last time the UA D finished in double digits?

btfd16 wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 3:25 pm ...I would love to have the 56th ranked defense after recent years lol

At Arizona, maybe, but he had consistent top ten recruiting classes to work with at Michigan. There are a fair # of solid NFL players Brown had, and when those guys left, his D nosedived.

I'm a Steeler fan, and Devin Bush was one of those guys. I could be a fairly decent DC with Devin Bush at LB.

Merkin wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 3:32 pm

btfd16 wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 3:25 pm ...I would love to have the 56th ranked defense after recent years lol

Exactly.

When was the last time the UA D finished in double digits?

When was the last time UA signed a 4 or 5 star recruit on defense? Louis Holmes?

I'm a steelers fan too. Devin Bush is awesome and there have been many good pros to come outta Michigan on the defensive side of the ball. Would be interesting to see what he can do with our defense because it has been something else for a very long time now

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 3:33 pm

btfd16 wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 3:25 pm ...I would love to have the 56th ranked defense after recent years lol

At Arizona, maybe, but he had consistent top ten recruiting classes to work with at Michigan. There are a fair # of solid NFL players Brown had, and when those guys left, his D nosedived.

I'm a Steeler fan, and Devin Bush was one of those guys. I could be a fairly decent DC with Devin Bush at LB.

Last 10 years scoring defense rank:

Arizona
2020 119th
2019 118th
2018 98th
2017 109th
2016 117th
2015 106th
2014 80th
2013 39th
2012 104th
2011 107th

So one respectable year, one poor year, and 8 miserable years. I honestly don't even remember what a defense is like.

I don't think we need to settle on our past transgressions with defenses for someone who is older, doesn't have recruiting ties out west (?), and saw a downward trend rank-wise just because they'd put us in the top 100. Sure, it would be an improvement than what we're used to but he was canned and their fans appear to be happy about it. While we have zero football tradition I don't think fans need to check their ego at the door when wanting legitimate assistant coaches. We hired this guy and by all accounts everyone hates the hire due to the process so I am personally giving zero margin for error with the coaching staff around Fisch.

What confuses me is that he is going after this guy after he was canned. I would have thought he had a sitting DC in mind that he had already talked to who would be chomping at the bit to come join our new coach.

cerec_cat wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:54 pm Seems that we are all much more interested in am the assistants, than the coach himself

Should we be interested in Dead Fish? I’m struggling to come up with reasons why I should be. Help me out.

BeardownZonaZona wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 3:36 pm I'm a steelers fan too. Devin Bush is awesome and there have been many good pros to come outta Michigan on the defensive side of the ball. Would be interesting to see what he can do with our defense because it has been something else for a very long time now

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 3:33 pm

btfd16 wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 3:25 pm ...I would love to have the 56th ranked defense after recent years lol

At Arizona, maybe, but he had consistent top ten recruiting classes to work with at Michigan. There are a fair # of solid NFL players Brown had, and when those guys left, his D nosedived.

I'm a Steeler fan, and Devin Bush was one of those guys. I could be a fairly decent DC with Devin Bush at LB.

First, good choice in NFL teams.

I'll say, what worries me is that his D varied so much with the available talent.

2016: McCray, Charlton, Peppers, Lewis, Winovich, Gary and Bush all NFL type players (McCray retired before training camp his rookie year).
2017: Basically the same cast minus Peppers. I give Brown a pass for the D declining bc the offense was putrid and the D was on the field all the time.
2018: Still a ton of talent, Winovich, Bush, Gary, Metellus and Hudson, all NFL players.
In 2019 and 2020, that's when the talent level fell and it got harder to identify NFL type talent. That's also when the major decline set in.

And that's what worries me. He was not a primary recruiter, so he was more the X's and O's guy. If his scheme requires 3-4 NFL level guys...well, we might only have 3-4 guys capable of starting at other Pac schools.

This is exactly the wrong type of guy we should be hiring. We need young guys who will be aggressive and tireless in recruiting.

Carcassdragger wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 6:21 pm This is exactly the wrong type of guy we should be hiring. We need young guys who will be aggressive and tireless in recruiting.

Are we about to get a bunch of guys who love to golf and really enjoy the sunshine? Because I’ve seen this movie before.

Chicat wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 6:23 pm

Carcassdragger wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 6:21 pm This is exactly the wrong type of guy we should be hiring. We need young guys who will be aggressive and tireless in recruiting.

Are we about to get a bunch of guys who love to golf and really enjoy the sunshine? Because I’ve seen this movie before.

Especially if alcohol is involved.

As what, OC? I assume Fisch will call the plays ala RR so this guy will have a title and be part of the play calling.

I wonder if DeKuyper and Carroll says hell no to his offers?

azcat49 wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 7:06 pm As what, OC? I assume Fisch will call the plays ala RR so this guy will have a title and be part of the play calling.

I wonder if DeKuyper and Carroll says hell no to his offers?

My uneducated guess would be wr coach/passing game coordinator. I would expect a o-line or RB coach to get the running game coordinator.

My guess is he is getting a title he doesn't have at UCLA

Anyone remember Mike Hankwitz? He was a finalist for the Frank Broyles top assistant coach in the land.

Anyone know what role dougherty will have? Not a fan of his to be the OC. Would like to see him as a wr coach

ByJoveByJingle wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 3:33 pm

Merkin wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 3:32 pm

btfd16 wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 3:25 pm ...I would love to have the 56th ranked defense after recent years lol

Exactly.

When was the last time the UA D finished in double digits?

When was the last time UA signed a 4 or 5 star recruit on defense? Louis Holmes?

Want to feel sad? Probably the fearsome duo of Jamadre Cobb and Marquis Ware.

btfd16 wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:46 am

ByJoveByJingle wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 3:33 pm

Merkin wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 3:32 pm

btfd16 wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 3:25 pm ...I would love to have the 56th ranked defense after recent years lol

Exactly.

When was the last time the UA D finished in double digits?

When was the last time UA signed a 4 or 5 star recruit on defense? Louis Holmes?

Want to feel sad? Probably the fearsome duo of Jamadre Cobb and Marquis Ware.

Ah yes. And coincidentally I think they were 4/5ths as impactful as Holmes.

So no one are here want Don Brown as DC.

scumdevils86 wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 3:42 pm Last 10 years scoring defense rank:

Arizona
2020 119th
2019 118th
2018 98th
2017 109th
2016 117th
2015 106th
2014 80th
2013 39th
2012 104th
2011 107th

So one respectable year, one poor year, and 8 miserable years. I honestly don't even remember what a defense is like.

Do you have anything that Total Defense Ranks in the last ten years?

cordera89 wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:26 pm So no one are here want Don Brown as DC.

I do.

I do as well

cordera89 wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:26 pm So no one are here want Don Brown as DC.

Depends on my options.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 8:32 am

cordera89 wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:26 pm So no one are here want Don Brown as DC.

Depends on my options.

Depends on who is your options. Even if he does get the job, I dont care about his age, You just want him to put a capable defense on the field.

If not Don Brown who else is willing to fix our Defensive Issue.

cordera89 wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 8:54 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 8:32 am

cordera89 wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:26 pm So no one are here want Don Brown as DC.

Depends on my options.

Depends on who is your options. Even if he does get the job, I dont care about his age, You just want him to put a capable defense on the field.

If not Don Brown who else is willing to fix our Defensive Issue.

I have two reservations about Brown.

1. His UM defenses rose and fell with the level of NFL talent he had. I don't think NFL talent is going to be available here in nearly the same way.
2. He's not really a recruiter. This isn't fatal, but he needs to be surrounded by people who can recruit.

So, he isn't awful, but it's not like he is flawless. So, what options do we have? I'm not asking you specifically, just that I think how good he looks is pretty dependent on who he's compared to.

Our defense has been god awful for the past 10 or so years. Literally if we can have a defense that ranks around 50ish in the country that's a huge improvement

BeardownZonaZona wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 9:13 am Our defense has been god awful for the past 10 or so years. Literally if we can have a defense that ranks around 50ish in the country that's a huge improvement

I mean, I'm just not hugely impressed with Brown being in the 50's.

Michigan's recruiting classes in the previous 4 years were 8, 8, 22 and 5. That averages out to a recruiting class of about #10 nationally. Performing in the 50's on D with an average top ten recruiting class isn't blowing me away.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 9:22 am

BeardownZonaZona wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 9:13 am Our defense has been god awful for the past 10 or so years. Literally if we can have a defense that ranks around 50ish in the country that's a huge improvement

I mean, I'm just not hugely impressed with Brown being in the 50's.

Michigan's recruiting classes in the previous 4 years were 8, 8, 22 and 5. That averages out to a recruiting class of about #10 nationally. Performing in the 50's on D with an average top ten recruiting class isn't blowing me away.

Some of that can be attributed to Harbaugh's offense. It's rankings have continued to drop over the last 3 years and we all know what happens to a defense when the offense doesn't stay on the field long enough.

Their offense was also 79th in the country in yards per game and 66th for points per game. They also lost their best corner because he opted out before the year. Sounds like the defense was probably on the field for way too long. I remember the Chicago Bears defense last year wasn't great like they should've been cuz their offense was terrible so they were on the field the whole time. Their program as a whole just had a rough year and if the media is to be trusted seems like they're cleaning house

azgreg wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 9:33 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 9:22 am

BeardownZonaZona wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 9:13 am Our defense has been god awful for the past 10 or so years. Literally if we can have a defense that ranks around 50ish in the country that's a huge improvement

I mean, I'm just not hugely impressed with Brown being in the 50's.

Michigan's recruiting classes in the previous 4 years were 8, 8, 22 and 5. That averages out to a recruiting class of about #10 nationally. Performing in the 50's on D with an average top ten recruiting class isn't blowing me away.

Some of that can be attributed to Harbaugh's offense. It's rankings have continued to drop over the last 3 years and we all know what happens to a defense when the offense doesn't stay on the field long enough.

Yes and no. It's tough to untangle stats in this area, but I'd point to Michigan being 120th of 130 teams in first quarter points allowed last year as evidence it wasn't just fatigue.

I'm not totally anti-Brown. I've always thought his schemes were solid enough. For me, it's really a question of what our options are.

Ricky Hunley and Chuck Cecil are in on D

Glad to see the UA connections, but can Cecil and Hunley recruit? Don't see a whole lot of recruiters on this team.

Both are in their mid to late 50's and have been out of football for a couple of years until Cecil was hired as a non coach.

Very meh about these. I mean, I want UofA ties too but guys who can coach and recruit...

Hunley hasn't coached since 2015 and Cecil didn't show me anything the last three years that makes me excited for it

If nothing more those two guys will bring some passion into the locker room.

I am more concerned if they can and will recruit?

btfd16 wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:06 am Ricky Hunley and Chuck Cecil are in on D

btfd16 wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:14 am Very meh about these. I mean, I want UofA ties too but guys who can coach and recruit...

Hunley hasn't coached since 2015 and Cecil didn't show me anything the last three years that makes me excited for it

Those are my thoughts in a nutshell. Success is gonna be driven by coaching and recruiting. Ties to Arizona are nice, but that's not going to mean wins if they can't coach and recruit.

Hunley did a good job when he was at Memphis if I remember right. Had some nice recruits and of course that program was on the rise. Hard to see Chuck hitting the road to recruit but he could cover vegas and San Diego easily

Sheer said the entire offense staff is gone.

azgreg wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:36 am Sheer said the entire offense staff is gone.

That's not a surprise.

EastCoastCat wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:42 am

azgreg wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:36 am Sheer said the entire offense staff is gone.

That's not a surprise.

He's now saying Steward will more than likely get an interview.

FFS we’re not only hiring Ricky Hunley as DL coach, but Chuck Cecil as DB coach. This is so beyond stupid.

So another one with no recruiting ties? Gonna be a long season next year with FCS quality players.