Bear Down Wildcats

Bosy Billups wrote:Basically, Pitt couldn't come up with the $10mm to buyout Miller. No one else will take the risk at this point.

Would you trade Miller for Musselman, straight up, right now?

Yes.

I don’t believe Miller has the creativity or flexibility to win the big one. We have all the talent in the world, but he’s always so reluctant just to “let the talent play“.

My current feelings towards Musselman are similar to my feelings of Miller when he was at Xavier.

I like.

CalStateTempe wrote:My current feelings towards Musselman are similar to my feelings of Miller when he was at Xavier.

I like.

Overall I'd take a fresh start regardless at this point.

ChooChooCat wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:My current feelings towards Musselman are similar to my feelings of Miller when he was at Xavier.

I like.

Overall I'd take a fresh start regardless at this point.

Yup

Nope. Not close. I believe in the last 5 years Sean has avg close to 30 wins per year. He has won multiple conference championships and a few tourney championships. I trust someone as driven as he has proven to be to get us out of this uncertainty.

Musselman has been around for quite awhile now. He wins a couple of games in March and suddenly people develop shiny object syndrome. I’m completely conflicted about Miller, but saying Musselman is a better coach is just categorically ignoring results and going with feelings.

ByJoveByJingle wrote:Musselman has been around for quite awhile now. He wins a couple of games in March and suddenly people develop shiny object syndrome. I’m completely conflicted about Miller, but saying Musselman is a better coach is just categorically ignoring results and going with feelings.

i agree, hes the soup de jour right now but i wouldnt trade Miller for him straight up -- the problem is Miller is playing with a handicapped deck that he dealt himself, and i can understand why some want a fresh start and would support Musselman, but i believe its for different reasons than him being a better coach than Miller.

just my opinion

I thought Miller's buyout was $500k if left for another job, but $10m if the UA fired him without cause.

97cats wrote:

ByJoveByJingle wrote:Musselman has been around for quite awhile now. He wins a couple of games in March and suddenly people develop shiny object syndrome. I’m completely conflicted about Miller, but saying Musselman is a better coach is just categorically ignoring results and going with feelings.

i agree, hes the soup de jour right now but i wouldnt trade Miller for him straight up -- the problem is Miller is playing with a handicapped deck that he dealt himself, and i can understand why some want a fresh start and would support Musselman, but i believe its for different reasons than him being a better coach than Miller.

just my opinion

I understand how you feel. But people need to separate the issues. If Miller needs to go, he needs to go. Then you open the Rolodex and start making calls. You don’t have Musselman’s agent on speed dial. People saying we are radioactive right now and nobody would want to coach here are the same kind of people who sold Apple, Amazon and Facebook stock when things weren’t going well. A smart coach and agent can see that the underlying principles are strong at Arizona irrespective of temporary turbulence.

Merkin wrote:I thought Miller's buyout was $500k if left for another job, but $10m if the UA fired him without cause.

Yes.

ChooChooCat wrote:

Merkin wrote:I thought Miller's buyout was $500k if left for another job, but $10m if the UA fired him without cause.

Yes.

It's $5 million if they just decided, "ehh we don't want you anymore."
It definitely won't be $10 million if fired for cause though

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/lo ... 371709002/" target="_blank

How TF do we only have a 500k buyout in the contract? That's absurd considering what an institution has invested, is investing, in a coach.

I think Miller is a heck of a coach during the season. I do not think Miller will ever make it to a final four. His teams are too tight. Am I happy with 20 wins, a conference championship, and March madness disappointment? Not sure, but probably not.

Next year is going to freak many out, and the firing voices will increase.

97cats wrote:

ByJoveByJingle wrote:Musselman has been around for quite awhile now. He wins a couple of games in March and suddenly people develop shiny object syndrome. I’m completely conflicted about Miller, but saying Musselman is a better coach is just categorically ignoring results and going with feelings.

i agree, hes the soup de jour right now but i wouldnt trade Miller for him straight up -- the problem is Miller is playing with a handicapped deck that he dealt himself, and i can understand why some want a fresh start and would support Musselman, but i believe its for different reasons than him being a better coach than Miller.

just my opinion

I am in this camp for sure. Apples being Apples, I would never trade Musselman for Miller straight up. Miller is a better coach to me. But its all about the fresh start. I tend to be someone who always tries and sees 20 steps ahead and I do not see how this works out well for Arizona or for Miller to stay so therefore to me Musselman is the better option given the place we are in.

OSUCat wrote:I think Miller is a heck of a coach during the season. I do not think Miller will ever make it to a final four. His teams are too tight. Am I happy with 20 wins, a conference championship, and March madness disappointment? Not sure, but probably not.

Next year is going to freak many out, and the firing voices will increase.

Or, for once, we have 0 expectations and outperform, making it a magical run to the Final Four. You never know!

ByJoveByJingle wrote:

97cats wrote:

ByJoveByJingle wrote:Musselman has been around for quite awhile now. He wins a couple of games in March and suddenly people develop shiny object syndrome. I’m completely conflicted about Miller, but saying Musselman is a better coach is just categorically ignoring results and going with feelings.

i agree, hes the soup de jour right now but i wouldnt trade Miller for him straight up -- the problem is Miller is playing with a handicapped deck that he dealt himself, and i can understand why some want a fresh start and would support Musselman, but i believe its for different reasons than him being a better coach than Miller.

just my opinion

I understand how you feel. But people need to separate the issues. If Miller needs to go, he needs to go. Then you open the Rolodex and start making calls. You don’t have Musselman’s agent on speed dial. People saying we are radioactive right now and nobody would want to coach here are the same kind of people who sold Apple, Amazon and Facebook stock when things weren’t going well. A smart coach and agent can see that the underlying principles are strong at Arizona irrespective of temporary turbulence.

I agree with this too. I feel strongly Arizona could hire a very strong coach given our brand and the ability to overpay if Miller left or we did not let him go (Which seems highly unlikely)

My first call would be Mark Few and call me naive, but I think Davis family steps up and we way over pay to get him.

I think people underestimate how badly our athletic department needs Basketball to be elite and selling out every game. Until Football steps up big time, its crucial and can not afford to let it suffer.

Louisville is going to have to way over pay for Chris Mack but like us, they can.

When in doubt, over pay. We should all be thankful Arizona basketball can. As much as you all might hate those old people in the expensive front row seats who sit down who sit down the whole time, they always let me know our program is fine when I see them on TV.

PS - the irony is, if we were playing right now in the Sweet 16, Miller would be negotiating for the Pitt contract right now. No doubt.

Newportcat wrote:

ByJoveByJingle wrote:

97cats wrote:

ByJoveByJingle wrote:Musselman has been around for quite awhile now. He wins a couple of games in March and suddenly people develop shiny object syndrome. I’m completely conflicted about Miller, but saying Musselman is a better coach is just categorically ignoring results and going with feelings.

i agree, hes the soup de jour right now but i wouldnt trade Miller for him straight up -- the problem is Miller is playing with a handicapped deck that he dealt himself, and i can understand why some want a fresh start and would support Musselman, but i believe its for different reasons than him being a better coach than Miller.

just my opinion

I understand how you feel. But people need to separate the issues. If Miller needs to go, he needs to go. Then you open the Rolodex and start making calls. You don’t have Musselman’s agent on speed dial. People saying we are radioactive right now and nobody would want to coach here are the same kind of people who sold Apple, Amazon and Facebook stock when things weren’t going well. A smart coach and agent can see that the underlying principles are strong at Arizona irrespective of temporary turbulence.

I agree with this too. I feel strongly Arizona could hire a very strong coach given our brand and the ability to overpay if Miller left or we did not let him go (Which seems highly unlikely)

My first call would be Mark Few and call me naive, but I think Davis family steps up and we way over pay to get him.

I think people underestimate how badly our athletic department needs Basketball to be elite and selling out every game. Until Football steps up big time, its crucial and can not afford to let it suffer.

Louisville is going to have to way over pay for Chris Mack but like us, they can.

When in doubt, over pay. We should all be thankful Arizona basketball can. As much as you all might hate those old people in the expensive front row seats who sit down who sit down the whole time, they always let me know our program is fine when I see them on TV.

Why would Few finally make a move now when he at long last proved to,himself that he can make it at Gonzaga? Does a guy who lives off transfers and foreign imports want to jump into Arizona style recruiting at this point in his career?

But the question is, what Sean Miller do we have left? He can't recruit, for who knows how long. How long is everybody comfortable waiting until he can sign some incoming freshmen? If we get fired up Sean Miller wanting to mix things up, then sure, but I don't think anyone of us knows how this past year has either damaged Miller personally or his reputation at least going forward as a recruiter.

Seems like the national consensus is people want to believe him but not sure/think he cheated. Hard to see how he can rehabilitate his image very easily even if all false against him. The problem was Book, it's easy, however carelessly, to lump Miller in with him as his assistant when the story broke on Miller.

A lot of times fans talk about fresh start, and it usually comes about in terms of wanting to win more games or end the reign of a tyrant. Miller's not either of those, though on a natural level with all this scandal it feels like we need a fresh start, but we're not exactly sure what if anything he's done. And his tourney performances aren't helping.

Newportcat wrote:

ByJoveByJingle wrote:

97cats wrote:

ByJoveByJingle wrote:Musselman has been around for quite awhile now. He wins a couple of games in March and suddenly people develop shiny object syndrome. I’m completely conflicted about Miller, but saying Musselman is a better coach is just categorically ignoring results and going with feelings.

i agree, hes the soup de jour right now but i wouldnt trade Miller for him straight up -- the problem is Miller is playing with a handicapped deck that he dealt himself, and i can understand why some want a fresh start and would support Musselman, but i believe its for different reasons than him being a better coach than Miller.

just my opinion

I understand how you feel. But people need to separate the issues. If Miller needs to go, he needs to go. Then you open the Rolodex and start making calls. You don’t have Musselman’s agent on speed dial. People saying we are radioactive right now and nobody would want to coach here are the same kind of people who sold Apple, Amazon and Facebook stock when things weren’t going well. A smart coach and agent can see that the underlying principles are strong at Arizona irrespective of temporary turbulence.

I agree with this too. I feel strongly Arizona could hire a very strong coach given our brand and the ability to overpay if Miller left or we did not let him go (Which seems highly unlikely)

My first call would be Mark Few and call me naive, but I think Davis family steps up and we way over pay to get him.

I think people underestimate how badly our athletic department needs Basketball to be elite and selling out every game. Until Football steps up big time, its crucial and can not afford to let it suffer.

Louisville is going to have to way over pay for Chris Mack but like us, they can.

When in doubt, over pay. We should all be thankful Arizona basketball can. As much as you all might hate those old people in the expensive front row seats who sit down who sit down the whole time, they always let me know our program is fine when I see them on TV.

You know, lifestyle or retirement plans do not change all that much whether you're making $3mm a year or $5mm a year, especially living in Tucson. It's more about how much you can pass down to your kids and grandchildren at that point.

The deciding factor is: CAREER RISK

If you are young, and want to win multiple championships, and a failure at a new school will tarnish your chance, you don't take it. Why would Few take that chance? I don't care what the pay is, he isn't known to be a "round the clock" recruiter for the top 10 prospects. He gets transfers and ...see kenny's post above

legallykenny wrote: Why would Few finally make a move now when he at long last proved to,himself that he can make it at Gonzaga? Does a guy who lives off transfers and foreign imports want to jump into Arizona style recruiting at this point in his career?

At this point Arizona style recruiting is going to be transfers and foreign imports. Sounds like a match made in heaven.

TheGreatCatsby wrote:But the question is, what Sean Miller do we have left? He can't recruit, for who knows how long. How long is everybody comfortable waiting until he can sign some incoming freshmen? If we get fired up Sean Miller wanting to mix things up, then sure, but I don't think anyone of us knows how this past year has either damaged Miller personally or his reputation at least going forward as a recruiter.

Seems like the national consensus is people want to believe him but not sure/think he cheated. Hard to see how he can rehabilitate his image very easily even if all false against him. The problem was Book, it's easy, however carelessly, to lump Miller in with him as his assistant when the story broke on Miller.

A lot of times fans talk about fresh start, and it usually comes about in terms of wanting to win more games or end the reign of a tyrant. Miller's not either of those, though on a natural level with all this scandal it feels like we need a fresh start, but we're not exactly sure what if anything he's done. And his tourney performances aren't helping.

Anyone else, they are toast, would retire, give up, etc.

Miller is not of that kind. Love or hate his style, he is a fighter, warrior, competitor.

My money is on him treating next year like year 1 at Arizona... Garland Junkins (sp?) and all.

Newportcat wrote:

ByJoveByJingle wrote:

97cats wrote:

ByJoveByJingle wrote:Musselman has been around for quite awhile now. He wins a couple of games in March and suddenly people develop shiny object syndrome. I’m completely conflicted about Miller, but saying Musselman is a better coach is just categorically ignoring results and going with feelings.

i agree, hes the soup de jour right now but i wouldnt trade Miller for him straight up -- the problem is Miller is playing with a handicapped deck that he dealt himself, and i can understand why some want a fresh start and would support Musselman, but i believe its for different reasons than him being a better coach than Miller.

just my opinion

I understand how you feel. But people need to separate the issues. If Miller needs to go, he needs to go. Then you open the Rolodex and start making calls. You don’t have Musselman’s agent on speed dial. People saying we are radioactive right now and nobody would want to coach here are the same kind of people who sold Apple, Amazon and Facebook stock when things weren’t going well. A smart coach and agent can see that the underlying principles are strong at Arizona irrespective of temporary turbulence.

I agree with this too. I feel strongly Arizona could hire a very strong coach given our brand and the ability to overpay if Miller left or we did not let him go (Which seems highly unlikely)

My first call would be Mark Few and call me naive, but I think Davis family steps up and we way over pay to get him.

I think people underestimate how badly our athletic department needs Basketball to be elite and selling out every game. Until Football steps up big time, its crucial and can not afford to let it suffer.

Louisville is going to have to way over pay for Chris Mack but like us, they can.

When in doubt, over pay. We should all be thankful Arizona basketball can. As much as you all might hate those old people in the expensive front row seats who sit down who sit down the whole time, they always let me know our program is fine when I see them on TV.

As I recall, Oregon took a run at Few when they canned Ernie Kent. Few: "no thanks, all that money is nice, and you have a very nice school, but I like it where I am" (or something like that). Few is a hunting, fishing, outdoorsie guy, with family and friends in Spokane. He has it good where he is, and more money is not his priority. Fugetabout Mark Few.

Newportcat wrote: I agree with this too. I feel strongly Arizona could hire a very strong coach given our brand and the ability to overpay if Miller left or we did not let him go (Which seems highly unlikely)

My first call would be Mark Few and call me naive, but I think Davis family steps up and we way over pay to get him.

I think people underestimate how badly our athletic department needs Basketball to be elite and selling out every game. Until Football steps up big time, its crucial and can not afford to let it suffer.

Louisville is going to have to way over pay for Chris Mack but like us, they can.

When in doubt, over pay. We should all be thankful Arizona basketball can. As much as you all might hate those old people in the expensive front row seats who sit down who sit down the whole time, they always let me know our program is fine when I see them on TV.

MrMeow wrote:

Newportcat wrote:

ByJoveByJingle wrote:

97cats wrote:

ByJoveByJingle wrote:Musselman has been around for quite awhile now. He wins a couple of games in March and suddenly people develop shiny object syndrome. I’m completely conflicted about Miller, but saying Musselman is a better coach is just categorically ignoring results and going with feelings.

i agree, hes the soup de jour right now but i wouldnt trade Miller for him straight up -- the problem is Miller is playing with a handicapped deck that he dealt himself, and i can understand why some want a fresh start and would support Musselman, but i believe its for different reasons than him being a better coach than Miller.

just my opinion

I understand how you feel. But people need to separate the issues. If Miller needs to go, he needs to go. Then you open the Rolodex and start making calls. You don’t have Musselman’s agent on speed dial. People saying we are radioactive right now and nobody would want to coach here are the same kind of people who sold Apple, Amazon and Facebook stock when things weren’t going well. A smart coach and agent can see that the underlying principles are strong at Arizona irrespective of temporary turbulence.

I agree with this too. I feel strongly Arizona could hire a very strong coach given our brand and the ability to overpay if Miller left or we did not let him go (Which seems highly unlikely)

My first call would be Mark Few and call me naive, but I think Davis family steps up and we way over pay to get him.

I think people underestimate how badly our athletic department needs Basketball to be elite and selling out every game. Until Football steps up big time, its crucial and can not afford to let it suffer.

Louisville is going to have to way over pay for Chris Mack but like us, they can.

When in doubt, over pay. We should all be thankful Arizona basketball can. As much as you all might hate those old people in the expensive front row seats who sit down who sit down the whole time, they always let me know our program is fine when I see them on TV.

As I recall, Oregon took a run at Few when they canned Ernie Kent. Few: "no thanks, all that money is nice, and you have a very nice school, but I like it where I am" (or something like that). Few is a hunting, fishing, outdoorsie guy, with family and friends in Spokane. He has it good where he is, and more money is not his priority. Fugetabout Mark Few.

At the time Oregon was a nothing program. I could be way off base and looking through Rose Colored glasses, but Arizona is a trophy job to me especially for someone from the West Coast. Outside of being in the shitty PAC 12 with Larry Scott running the show, Arizona has everything to be an Elite program. Facilities, tradition, rabid fan base, history of success in the NBA, hot chicks, weather outside of summer (When a college coach is living in a gym in Vegas anyways). Maybe Few stays forever at Gonzaga but people thought that about Chris Peterson too. I think Arizona is a very difficult job to turn down for someone on the West Coast.

Just fly Cedric Dempsey up to Spokane and he will close the deal! or have Few call Calipari to ask what he thinks about Arizona. He sold Miller as he told him the truth, jobs like Arizona do not come around much during your career.

If not Few, Musselman would not be bad at all either and zero chance he would turn down Arizona.

I do feel like fans here overweight Miller and underweight our program. College sports are about removing the structural issues which hurt your chances of long term consistent success to the best of your ability since Recruiting is completely unfair compared to Pro Sports ie Alabama wins a national championship and gets the first pick in the draft too. Arizona does not have really any permanent structural issues outside of a lack of instate talent which hurts way in football then basketball. Plenty of great West Coast players. Our structural issues we currently face are our on doing (And espn's yes) but smart outside coaches will see they will go away.

Bosy Billups wrote:Basically, Pitt couldn't come up with the $10mm to buyout Miller. No one else will take the risk at this point.

Would you trade Miller for Musselman, straight up, right now?

No, he gives me an Alford vibe. We have the chips to make a better hire.

Bosy Billups wrote:

TheGreatCatsby wrote:But the question is, what Sean Miller do we have left? He can't recruit, for who knows how long. How long is everybody comfortable waiting until he can sign some incoming freshmen? If we get fired up Sean Miller wanting to mix things up, then sure, but I don't think anyone of us knows how this past year has either damaged Miller personally or his reputation at least going forward as a recruiter.

Seems like the national consensus is people want to believe him but not sure/think he cheated. Hard to see how he can rehabilitate his image very easily even if all false against him. The problem was Book, it's easy, however carelessly, to lump Miller in with him as his assistant when the story broke on Miller.

A lot of times fans talk about fresh start, and it usually comes about in terms of wanting to win more games or end the reign of a tyrant. Miller's not either of those, though on a natural level with all this scandal it feels like we need a fresh start, but we're not exactly sure what if anything he's done. And his tourney performances aren't helping.

Anyone else, they are toast, would retire, give up, etc.

Miller is not of that kind. Love or hate his style, he is a fighter, warrior, competitor.

My money is on him treating next year like year 1 at Arizona... Garland Junkins (sp?) and all.

Great, because Miller's obit has been written. We're just waiting to fill in the date.

Honor the process Sean. Show these bullshit fans who you are

OSUCat wrote:I think Miller is a heck of a coach during the season. I do not think Miller will ever make it to a final four. His teams are too tight. Am I happy with 20 wins, a conference championship, and March madness disappointment? Not sure, but probably not.

Next year is going to freak many out, and the firing voices will increase.

I never understand the argument about how there's a secret coach combo to make the Final Four.

Frank Martin knew the secret to a Final Four a year ago. This year, he turned that secret into a 17-16 season that was sub .500 in the SEC and nowhere close to the tourney. Did he forget the secret? Is the secret a Faustian bargain like UConn's made?

Mark Few didn't have the secret. Gonzaga crashed and burned short of the Final Four for over a decade. Then last year came around and they made the national final. Did he learn the secret?

I don't buy the tight team argument either. Bobby Knight won multiple titles, and Bobby Knight makes Sean Miller look comatose. I don't know how tight Miller makes the team, but I'm fairly sure he looks like a Kindergarten teacher discipline wise compared to BK.

Kevin Ollie knew the secret a few years ago. Now he can't figure out how to hold a job. Ceiling is an invented concept by fans. The reality is far more complex.

Newportcat wrote:

ByJoveByJingle wrote:

97cats wrote:

ByJoveByJingle wrote:Musselman has been around for quite awhile now. He wins a couple of games in March and suddenly people develop shiny object syndrome. I’m completely conflicted about Miller, but saying Musselman is a better coach is just categorically ignoring results and going with feelings.

i agree, hes the soup de jour right now but i wouldnt trade Miller for him straight up -- the problem is Miller is playing with a handicapped deck that he dealt himself, and i can understand why some want a fresh start and would support Musselman, but i believe its for different reasons than him being a better coach than Miller.

just my opinion

I understand how you feel. But people need to separate the issues. If Miller needs to go, he needs to go. Then you open the Rolodex and start making calls. You don’t have Musselman’s agent on speed dial. People saying we are radioactive right now and nobody would want to coach here are the same kind of people who sold Apple, Amazon and Facebook stock when things weren’t going well. A smart coach and agent can see that the underlying principles are strong at Arizona irrespective of temporary turbulence.

I agree with this too. I feel strongly Arizona could hire a very strong coach given our brand and the ability to overpay if Miller left or we did not let him go (Which seems highly unlikely)

My first call would be Mark Few and call me naive, but I think Davis family steps up and we way over pay to get him.

I think people underestimate how badly our athletic department needs Basketball to be elite and selling out every game. Until Football steps up big time, its crucial and can not afford to let it suffer.

Louisville is going to have to way over pay for Chris Mack but like us, they can.

When in doubt, over pay. We should all be thankful Arizona basketball can. As much as you all might hate those old people in the expensive front row seats who sit down who sit down the whole time, they always let me know our program is fine when I see them on TV.

Holy geez, I didn't even read this far down. Mark Few was the most notorious coach with an Elite Eight ceiling a year ago, and now he's going to save us from our Elite Eight ceiling because he made one Final Four after a decade of early exits with high seeds?

ChooChooCat wrote:

Pop McKale wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:

EVCat wrote:
No one can recruit to us right now. If anyone can, it is this guy.

I don't agree with that at all. I think if we ended up with a new coach he'd have a much easier time recruiting to Arizona than Sean Miller would bar none. The sole reason Arizona is remotely seen as a tainted place is because Sean Miller is the coach at Arizona. Part of that is his fault (Book stuff happened under his watch) and part of it is not (Hi Mark Schlabach), but you can't tell me a coach with a clean slate at Arizona wouldn't be in a better place in regards to recruiting than Sean Miller at the moment.

I can get on board with this but this whole apparent charade between Robbins and Miller is bothersome to me even if that is the financial reality.

Just because, who would you look at to replace Miller? For the record, I'm not completely convinced that Coach Clean S. Late can come in and have immediate success to the level Arizona loyalists expect/demand.

What's your definition of immediate success I guess is the question? Am I assuming Arizona could hire a Eric Musselman type and he'd be landing a top 5 class immediately? Of course not. Do I assume Arizona could hire an Eric Musselman type and land a class primarily of 4 stars on the west coast within his first two years and grow from there to landing a 5 star or two in year 3-4? Yes, Yes I do.

In my opinion, the dialogue below sums the situation up:


EVCat: "No one can recruit to us......"

Choo Choo: "You can't tell me a coach with a clean slate wouldn't be in better place......."

Pop McKale: ".....the apparent charade between Robbins and Miller is bothersome....."

Choo Choo (when asked if Eric Musselmann can do the job): "Yes he can."


Also in my opinion: anything along these lines has been the best call since Day 1.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

OSUCat wrote:I think Miller is a heck of a coach during the season. I do not think Miller will ever make it to a final four. His teams are too tight. Am I happy with 20 wins, a conference championship, and March madness disappointment? Not sure, but probably not.

Next year is going to freak many out, and the firing voices will increase.

I never understand the argument about how there's a secret coach combo to make the Final Four.

Frank Martin knew the secret to a Final Four a year ago. This year, he turned that secret into a 17-16 season that was sub .500 in the SEC and nowhere close to the tourney. Did he forget the secret? Is the secret a Faustian bargain like UConn's made?

Mark Few didn't have the secret. Gonzaga crashed and burned short of the Final Four for over a decade. Then last year came around and they made the national final. Did he learn the secret?

I don't buy the tight team argument either. Bobby Knight won multiple titles, and Bobby Knight makes Sean Miller look comatose. I don't know how tight Miller makes the team, but I'm fairly sure he looks like a Kindergarten teacher discipline wise compared to BK.

Kevin Ollie knew the secret a few years ago. Now he can't figure out how to hold a job. Ceiling is an invented concept by fans. The reality is far more complex.

The schools Arizona wants to compare to are regularly in the FF. Somehow those programs have figured it out. Probably has something to do with coaching.

Few is not coming to Arizona. He wins 30 games a year in a soft conference and is coming off of a final four. Why would he come to AZ knowing that there might be sanctions? Yes, there are advantages at AZ, but he has enough success at Gonzaga. The move would make no sense. He turned down Arizona 9 years ago when there were less issues surrounding the program.

Jason Scheer said today that after next year, Miller should have no problem recruiting the highly ranked kids. That is why he needs to bring in 2-3 guys who will contribute right away next year. With a point guard and big man, I see next year's team making the NCAA tournament. I will predict the fans will enjoy next year's team more than this year's. They will be more fun to watch.

Irish27 wrote:Jason Scheer said today that after next year, Miller should have no problem recruiting the highly ranked kids. That is why he needs to bring in 2-3 guys who will contribute right away next year. With a point guard and big man, I see next year's team making the NCAA tournament. I will predict the fans will enjoy next year's team more than this year's. They will be more fun to watch.

I have said all along, if Randolph, Lee, and Akot stay (and it appears that they are) alongside Jeter, plus AZ is able to add a transfer or two, and can still bring in a guy like Williams and snag either Doutrive or Akinjo, next year's team could be competitive and make the tournament.

midnightx wrote:Few is not coming to Arizona. He wins 30 games a year in a soft conference and is coming off of a final four. Why would he come to AZ knowing that there might be sanctions? Yes, there are advantages at AZ, but he has enough success at Gonzaga. The move would make no sense. He turned down Arizona 9 years ago when there were less issues surrounding the program.

Nice . . . a new line of discussion to keep us occupied during a long offseason. Were there fewer issues surrounding the program 9 years ago? I say no. People are overestimating the impact of the current troubles and underestimating how much trouble we were in at the end of Lute’s career and the difficult transition period that followed. We all felt that Arizona was a Program. But there was no proof that Arizona wasn’t just Lute and that we would fall back into the pack when he was no longer the face of the program. The program was in complete disarray. We suffered through multiple mediocre transition coaches. The shadow of Lute was long. We hired multiple alumni as assistant coaches who proved to be way in over their heads (Pastner, Simon, Geary). And yet somehow 9 years and three Elite 8s later (two that easily could or should have been Final Fours) a “bad coach” has established that we were and are something more than Lute. And more than Miller. So I think yes, we are in few for a couple frustrating years. But as a Program, I know Arizona will be back—whether with Miller or some other good coach.

TatetheGreat wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

OSUCat wrote:I think Miller is a heck of a coach during the season. I do not think Miller will ever make it to a final four. His teams are too tight. Am I happy with 20 wins, a conference championship, and March madness disappointment? Not sure, but probably not.

Next year is going to freak many out, and the firing voices will increase.

I never understand the argument about how there's a secret coach combo to make the Final Four.

Frank Martin knew the secret to a Final Four a year ago. This year, he turned that secret into a 17-16 season that was sub .500 in the SEC and nowhere close to the tourney. Did he forget the secret? Is the secret a Faustian bargain like UConn's made?

Mark Few didn't have the secret. Gonzaga crashed and burned short of the Final Four for over a decade. Then last year came around and they made the national final. Did he learn the secret?

I don't buy the tight team argument either. Bobby Knight won multiple titles, and Bobby Knight makes Sean Miller look comatose. I don't know how tight Miller makes the team, but I'm fairly sure he looks like a Kindergarten teacher discipline wise compared to BK.

Kevin Ollie knew the secret a few years ago. Now he can't figure out how to hold a job. Ceiling is an invented concept by fans. The reality is far more complex.

The schools Arizona wants to compare to are regularly in the FF. Somehow those programs have figured it out. Probably has something to do with coaching.

Right now people are pining for Mark Few who has one Final Four and Eric Musselman, who has zero.

There is a really, really short list of coaches who are regularly in the Final Four and we ain't getting one of them. I think you're just incorrect. This is about how the replacement is an undefeated hero. When/if he gets here, he'll be hated just the same. Until the games are played, the grass is always greener on the other side.

I'm with ChooChoo and 97Cats............Time to turn the page.

The deciding factor is whether Miller can successfully recruit going forward. I, for one, have serious doubts about his ability to do so with the Sword of Damocles hanging over the program. When Miller walks into the living room of any recruit today, the first thing the recruits parents are going to think is "This guy is a crook". And its not likely to get better anytime soon. The worst is yet to come. Wait until Book gets convicted (The Feds only bring charges when the case is a slam dunk). The NCAA is going to look at Book the Felon, combined with everything he said on tape, and throw the book at AZ. How will Miller recruit then???

Bottom line, the UA needs to get the scandal in the rear view mirror as quickly as possible. Parting ways with Miller is the first thing we need to do.

Oh, and one more thing..........We should have self sanctioned.

dmjcat wrote:I'm with ChooChoo and 97Cats............Time to turn the page.

The deciding factor is whether Miller can successfully recruit going forward. I, for one, have serious doubts about his ability to do so with the Sword of Damocles hanging over the program. When Miller walks into the living room of any recruit today, the first thing the recruits parents are going to think is "This guy is a crook". And its not likely to get better anytime soon. The worst is yet to come. Wait until Book gets convicted (The Feds only bring charges when the case is a slam dunk). The NCAA is going to look at Book the Felon, combined with everything he said on tape, and throw the book at AZ. How will Miller recruit then???

Bottom line, the UA needs to get the scandal in the rear view mirror as quickly as possible. Parting ways with Miller is the first thing we need to do.

Oh, and one more thing..........We should have self sanctioned.

I’m not sure how this makes sense. If all these recruits are getting paid, why would they think that Miller is a crook? If anything he’s Robin Hood to them. Some NBA player mentioned that there was the whiff of slavery about the current ncaa system.

ByJoveByJingle wrote:

dmjcat wrote:I'm with ChooChoo and 97Cats............Time to turn the page.

The deciding factor is whether Miller can successfully recruit going forward. I, for one, have serious doubts about his ability to do so with the Sword of Damocles hanging over the program. When Miller walks into the living room of any recruit today, the first thing the recruits parents are going to think is "This guy is a crook". And its not likely to get better anytime soon. The worst is yet to come. Wait until Book gets convicted (The Feds only bring charges when the case is a slam dunk). The NCAA is going to look at Book the Felon, combined with everything he said on tape, and throw the book at AZ. How will Miller recruit then???

Bottom line, the UA needs to get the scandal in the rear view mirror as quickly as possible. Parting ways with Miller is the first thing we need to do.

Oh, and one more thing..........We should have self sanctioned.

I’m not sure how this makes sense. If all these recruits are getting paid, why would they think that Miller is a crook? If anything he’s Robin Hood to them. Some NBA player mentioned that there was the whiff of slavery about the current ncaa system.

I think he meant "this guy's a crook " not "this guy's a crook ." Otherwise it sounds more like what a fan would say, not a player. If I was a player and you wanted to give me 150k, I wouldn't get mad, I'd get glad.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Newportcat wrote:

ByJoveByJingle wrote:

97cats wrote:

ByJoveByJingle wrote:Musselman has been around for quite awhile now. He wins a couple of games in March and suddenly people develop shiny object syndrome. I’m completely conflicted about Miller, but saying Musselman is a better coach is just categorically ignoring results and going with feelings.

i agree, hes the soup de jour right now but i wouldnt trade Miller for him straight up -- the problem is Miller is playing with a handicapped deck that he dealt himself, and i can understand why some want a fresh start and would support Musselman, but i believe its for different reasons than him being a better coach than Miller.

just my opinion

I understand how you feel. But people need to separate the issues. If Miller needs to go, he needs to go. Then you open the Rolodex and start making calls. You don’t have Musselman’s agent on speed dial. People saying we are radioactive right now and nobody would want to coach here are the same kind of people who sold Apple, Amazon and Facebook stock when things weren’t going well. A smart coach and agent can see that the underlying principles are strong at Arizona irrespective of temporary turbulence.

I agree with this too. I feel strongly Arizona could hire a very strong coach given our brand and the ability to overpay if Miller left or we did not let him go (Which seems highly unlikely)

My first call would be Mark Few and call me naive, but I think Davis family steps up and we way over pay to get him.

I think people underestimate how badly our athletic department needs Basketball to be elite and selling out every game. Until Football steps up big time, its crucial and can not afford to let it suffer.

Louisville is going to have to way over pay for Chris Mack but like us, they can.

When in doubt, over pay. We should all be thankful Arizona basketball can. As much as you all might hate those old people in the expensive front row seats who sit down who sit down the whole time, they always let me know our program is fine when I see them on TV.

Holy geez, I didn't even read this far down. Mark Few was the most notorious coach with an Elite Eight ceiling a year ago, and now he's going to save us from our Elite Eight ceiling because he made one Final Four after a decade of early exits with high seeds?

If Miller left, yes Few would be my first call. I am not saying he is the answer, but to me he is by far our best option in terms of established coach with West Coast ties if Miller were to leave. Few has gotten the Final Four monkey off his back and has worked with far less resources at Gonzaga. I am surprised someone would think Few would not be a good choice to call first. And people here are probably right in that I am a homer to think he would leave gonzaga for us

ByJoveByJingle wrote:

midnightx wrote:Few is not coming to Arizona. He wins 30 games a year in a soft conference and is coming off of a final four. Why would he come to AZ knowing that there might be sanctions? Yes, there are advantages at AZ, but he has enough success at Gonzaga. The move would make no sense. He turned down Arizona 9 years ago when there were less issues surrounding the program.

Nice . . . a new line of discussion to keep us occupied during a long offseason. Were there fewer issues surrounding the program 9 years ago? I say no. People are overestimating the impact of the current troubles and underestimating how much trouble we were in at the end of Lute’s career and the difficult transition period that followed. We all felt that Arizona was a Program. But there was no proof that Arizona wasn’t just Lute and that we would fall back into the pack when he was no longer the face of the program. The program was in complete disarray. We suffered through multiple mediocre transition coaches. The shadow of Lute was long. We hired multiple alumni as assistant coaches who proved to be way in over their heads (Pastner, Simon, Geary). And yet somehow 9 years and three Elite 8s later (two that easily could or should have been Final Fours) a “bad coach” has established that we were and are something more than Lute. And more than Miller. So I think yes, we are in few for a couple frustrating years. But as a Program, I know Arizona will be back—whether with Miller or some other good coach.

I agree with this. Current problems are no where near as bad as 9 years ago when you could say "Without Lute, Arizona is nothing". Especially with College basketball basically dying outside of the tournament especially on the west coast so legit programs like ours are very rare. Arizona is structurally sound for the long term. We were not in 2009.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

TatetheGreat wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

OSUCat wrote:I think Miller is a heck of a coach during the season. I do not think Miller will ever make it to a final four. His teams are too tight. Am I happy with 20 wins, a conference championship, and March madness disappointment? Not sure, but probably not.

Next year is going to freak many out, and the firing voices will increase.

I never understand the argument about how there's a secret coach combo to make the Final Four.

Frank Martin knew the secret to a Final Four a year ago. This year, he turned that secret into a 17-16 season that was sub .500 in the SEC and nowhere close to the tourney. Did he forget the secret? Is the secret a Faustian bargain like UConn's made?

Mark Few didn't have the secret. Gonzaga crashed and burned short of the Final Four for over a decade. Then last year came around and they made the national final. Did he learn the secret?

I don't buy the tight team argument either. Bobby Knight won multiple titles, and Bobby Knight makes Sean Miller look comatose. I don't know how tight Miller makes the team, but I'm fairly sure he looks like a Kindergarten teacher discipline wise compared to BK.

Kevin Ollie knew the secret a few years ago. Now he can't figure out how to hold a job. Ceiling is an invented concept by fans. The reality is far more complex.

The schools Arizona wants to compare to are regularly in the FF. Somehow those programs have figured it out. Probably has something to do with coaching.

Right now people are pining for Mark Few who has one Final Four and Eric Musselman, who has zero.

There is a really, really short list of coaches who are regularly in the Final Four and we ain't getting one of them. I think you're just incorrect. This is about how the replacement is an undefeated hero. When/if he gets here, he'll be hated just the same. Until the games are played, the grass is always greener on the other side.

Name one blue blood who has retained a coach for a decade with no FF appearances. Name one top 20 school. Top 30?

TatetheGreat wrote:Name one blue blood who has retained a coach for a decade with no FF appearances. Name one top 20 school. Top 30?

All I've got is Wisconsin and Notre Dame (football schools), Gonzaga (18 years for Few but Zaga had no previous FFs) and Georgetown (JTIII fired after a 10 year drought). So there is precedent, but not for top 10 programs. I rest my case.

TatetheGreat wrote:

TatetheGreat wrote:Name one blue blood who has retained a coach for a decade with no FF appearances. Name one top 20 school. Top 30?

All I've got is Wisconsin and Notre Dame (football schools), Gonzaga (18 years for Few but Zaga had no previous FFs) and Georgetown (JTIII fired after a 10 year drought). So there is precedent, but not for top 10 programs. I rest my case.

You should pick a new closing line. Judging from the critical reasoning you have (or haven't, actually) demonstrated in this thread (especially the "why not an alumni" angle)... it seems quite clear that you are not an attorney. (Critical reasoning Is tested on the LSAT).

I know you are quite proud of your argument above, which is at least moderately interesting - although I do not trust your represented research and do not care to do my own.

On the flip side, has there ever been a coach with Miller's conference (and tourney) championships (% of winning each)... overall winning percentage... recruiting track record.... and overall NCAA success (past 3 seasons notwithstanding) who has been fired? Anywhere?

You think through your arguments in a vacuum...

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

OSUCat wrote:I think Miller is a heck of a coach during the season. I do not think Miller will ever make it to a final four. His teams are too tight. Am I happy with 20 wins, a conference championship, and March madness disappointment? Not sure, but probably not.

Next year is going to freak many out, and the firing voices will increase.

I never understand the argument about how there's a secret coach combo to make the Final Four.

Frank Martin knew the secret to a Final Four a year ago. This year, he turned that secret into a 17-16 season that was sub .500 in the SEC and nowhere close to the tourney. Did he forget the secret? Is the secret a Faustian bargain like UConn's made?

Mark Few didn't have the secret. Gonzaga crashed and burned short of the Final Four for over a decade. Then last year came around and they made the national final. Did he learn the secret?

I don't buy the tight team argument either. Bobby Knight won multiple titles, and Bobby Knight makes Sean Miller look comatose. I don't know how tight Miller makes the team, but I'm fairly sure he looks like a Kindergarten teacher discipline wise compared to BK.

Kevin Ollie knew the secret a few years ago. Now he can't figure out how to hold a job. Ceiling is an invented concept by fans. The reality is far more complex.

Thanks for all your contributions to this thread... it made wading through most of the posts worthwhile.

Irish27 wrote:Jason Scheer said today that after next year, Miller should have no problem recruiting the highly ranked kids. That is why he needs to bring in 2-3 guys who will contribute right away next year. With a point guard and big man, I see next year's team making the NCAA tournament. I will predict the fans will enjoy next year's team more than this year's. They will be more fun to watch.

Of course Miller I mean Jason Scheer would say that...take everything Jason says with a massive grain of salt...trust me from having seen the inner workings of GOAZCATS in the early days, sites like his are basically glorified PR firms for the athletic department. Just another sausage factory.

Harvey Specter wrote:

TatetheGreat wrote:

TatetheGreat wrote:Name one blue blood who has retained a coach for a decade with no FF appearances. Name one top 20 school. Top 30?

All I've got is Wisconsin and Notre Dame (football schools), Gonzaga (18 years for Few but Zaga had no previous FFs) and Georgetown (JTIII fired after a 10 year drought). So there is precedent, but not for top 10 programs. I rest my case.

You should pick a new closing line. Judging from the critical reasoning you have (or haven't, actually) demonstrated in this thread (especially the "why not an alumni" angle)... it seems quite clear that you are not an attorney. (Critical reasoning Is tested on the LSAT).

I know you are quite proud of your argument above, which is at least moderately interesting - although I do not trust your represented research and do not care to do my own.

On the flip side, has there ever been a coach with Miller's conference (and tourney) championships (% of winning each)... overall winning percentage... recruiting track record.... and overall NCAA success (past 3 seasons notwithstanding) who has been fired? Anywhere?

You think through your arguments in a vacuum...

It's alumnus, genius. Why does it seem like you're always on the rag?

Harvey Specter wrote:

TatetheGreat wrote:

TatetheGreat wrote:Name one blue blood who has retained a coach for a decade with no FF appearances. Name one top 20 school. Top 30?

All I've got is Wisconsin and Notre Dame (football schools), Gonzaga (18 years for Few but Zaga had no previous FFs) and Georgetown (JTIII fired after a 10 year drought). So there is precedent, but not for top 10 programs. I rest my case.

You should pick a new closing line. Judging from the critical reasoning you have (or haven't, actually) demonstrated in this thread (especially the "why not an alumni" angle)... it seems quite clear that you are not an attorney. (Critical reasoning Is tested on the LSAT).

I know you are quite proud of your argument above, which is at least moderately interesting - although I do not trust your represented research and do not care to do my own.

On the flip side, has there ever been a coach with Miller's conference (and tourney) championships (% of winning each)... overall winning percentage... recruiting track record.... and overall NCAA success (past 3 seasons notwithstanding) who has been fired? Anywhere?

You think through your arguments in a vacuum...

Ben Howland

Mark Richt in football

Ben was a mistake by UCLA
Richt, Georgia looks pretty smart right now for firing him as Kirby looks like the real deal

Newportcat wrote:

BE4RDOWN21 wrote:Has anyone heard the rumor that Amy Miller moved back to Pittsburgh recently?

I had heard a rumor that Sean and his wife were separating but that was about 1.5 months ago....which funny enough feels like 10 years ago. But then she was at the pac 12 tournament and hugging him after the game so thought the rumor was false

I think all their kids are out of high school now

Thanks for posting disproven marital rumors and false information about the family. Ever considered applying for a job at ESPN?

PS - Is there any truth to the rumor I heard that you were trying to shtoop your boss's wife? Or maybe it was your subordinate's? I can't remember, but it sounded scandalous...